Bisq.network Decentralized Exchange https://bisq.network/

[bisq_flix]

Our market kick-start event last month gave us an extra boost to reach 926 trades in total. All in all it was a great month for @bisq_network!

https://twitter.com/chrisattee/status/1046784597261000704

[deisik]

I understand (more or less) how your system works

But this is not the direction in which decentralized exchanges should evolve as I come to think. Actually, I wouldn't call your system an exchange as there is no competition between traders that we see on centralized exchanges. So my question is, have you ever considered using Lightning Network or similar technologies to implement something more like a regular exchange with full-fledged orderbooks but without a central server (read, a third party) receiving, accumulating and sending all this data? In other words, a personal desktop wallet would serve as a part of a distributed exchange, with updates and order execution close to being instant. I understand that this requires strong cooperation between the developers of different coins in order to be done in practice, but it might be helpful to build an MVP enabling real time exchange between two currencies specifically modified to enable this feature on the blockchain (wallet) level

[bisq_flix]

I understand (more or less) how your system works

But this is not the direction in which decentralized exchanges should evolve as I come to think. Actually, I wouldn't call your system an exchange as there is no competition between traders that we see on centralized exchanges. So my question is, have you ever considered using Lightning Network or similar technologies to implement something more like a regular exchange with full-fledged orderbooks but without a central server (read, a third party) receiving, accumulating and sending all this data? In other words, a personal desktop wallet would serve as a part of a distributed exchange, with updates and order execution close to being instant. I understand that this requires strong cooperation between the developers of different coins in order to be done in practice, but it might be helpful to build an MVP enabling real time exchange between two currencies specifically modified to enable this feature on the blockchain (wallet) level

Absolutely. Lightning integration is on the wishlist and there is even a bounty out for the first step towards it:

⚡️ Propose how to make Bisq nodes serve as Lightning Network nodes using ACINQ's Eclair library ⚡️
https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/3

[bisq_flix]

In my mind Bisq with full lightning integration would split trades into tiny payments so that the security deposit could be re-used for each and thus keep the security incentives while reducing friction.

On the Bitcoin-to-fiat side this would take advantage of some API-enabled instant payment solution. In Europe the regulatory roadmap forces banks to:
 1. Open their APIs to 3rd parties
 2. Implement SEPA Instant payments

So Bitcoin-fiat micropayment powered, lightning-network enabled exchange should be very possible in 2019/2020.

...but if you don't want to wait that long, combining  ⚡️lightning network ⚡️ with a pegged coloured coin (like USDT or similar) would allow very fast atomic swaps.

[bisq_flix]

I don't know if it's FUD or a valid concern... but today all the talk is of USDT (Tether) losing its peg to the USD and crashing Bitfinex.

It could just be an irrational panic... but it illustrates the dangers of relying on a centralized third party. The truth is that even if USDT is fully backed by USD in a bank account, it would only take a couple of banks deciding to no longer work with Bitfinex for USDT to become unconvertible and unredeemable.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-15/dollar-peg-that-underpins-20-of-crypto-trades-is-under-pressure


Update: statement from Bitfinex
https://medium.com/bitfinex/fiat-deposit-update-october-15th-2018-18ddd276c3fd

[bisq_flix]

Discussion about the Bisq DAO with Eyal Ron
https://youtu.be/UbBLSyaDiK0


The DAO is closer to reality than ever with October testnet and December mainnet launches scheduled.

It will be very interesting to see how it works in reality. It's easy to imagine things in theory... but no battle plan survives past the first bullet fired.

If you want to learn more about the DAO:  https://docs.bisq.network/dao/phase-zero.html

[bisq_flix]

Record volume month for Bisq:

https://coin.dance/volume/bisq
https://markets.bisq.network/

And $500k+ volume today!
https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/bisq/
https://twitter.com/flix1/status/1054266273926967297

[bisq_flix]

Manfred is on fire lately!


Atomic swap protocol for BSQ-BTC trades
https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/50

Add Monero wallet features to Bisq
https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/51

Concept for decentralized binary option trading
https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/45

[bisq_flix]

Coindesk on Bisq
A Decentralized Bitcoin Exchange That's Almost Decentralized
https://www.coindesk.com/bitcoin-decentralized-exchange-dex-crypto-bisq-dao-monero/

Of all the cryptocurrency projects describing themselves as "decentralized exchanges" (DEXs), Bisq may live up to the description better than most.

Operating since 2016, when it was originally called Bitsquare, the Bisq DEX runs directly on the user's computer, rather than a hosted site, as many of the self-described DEXs currently do. And while DEXs like Airswap and Everbloom are operated by startups, Bisq is a strictly open source project developed by a grassroots collective.

[bisq_flix]

Manfred's proposal for a new trade protocol:

Proposal for new trade protocol without the need for arbitrators #52
https://github.com/bisq-network/proposals/issues/52

We suggest a change of the current Bisq trade protocol which is based on a 2-of-3 MultiSig deposit transaction where an arbitrator is the 3rd key holder who helps in case of disputes and can make the payout transaction with one of the traders. The new protocol would be based on a 2-of-2 MultiSig deposit tx where only the 2 traders are the key holders. We would delegate the dispute resolution (which in fact is 99.9% customer care work and no real disputes) to the users as first step and if they cannot resolve the issue themselfes to mediators. In case the peers do not cooperate to sign the payout transaction as defined in the trade contract there is an option for the victim of getting reimbursed for the lost BTC amount by the BSQ stakeholders.

[bisq_flix]

Bisq Network — Skip the Thai Exchanges
https://medium.com/thaisignal/bisq-network-skip-the-thai-exchanges-f86650ee83d8

[LeGaulois]

Is there something (a filter or algorithm) filtering the fraudulent SEPAs, at the country/bank/IBAN. Including a payment option that opens the doors to the chargeback/dispute is a little risky for people.
I see Bisq has an arbitrator system but nowadays with a SEPA it usually take 24-48h

[bisq_flix]

Is there something (a filter or algorithm) filtering the fraudulent SEPAs, at the country/bank/IBAN. Including a payment option that opens the doors to the chargeback/dispute is a little risky for people.
I see Bisq has an arbitrator system but nowadays with a SEPA it usually take 24-48h

Almost 6000 SEPA Euro trades have happened on Bisq so far. Approximately 1% of those have gone to arbitration. 0 of them have been due to chargebacks.

It is true that in theory SEPA transfers are not final and can always be reversed.... but in practice bank policy in Europe is to allow cancellation within the first 24hrs and after that only ever reverse SEPA transfers in cases of fraud or crime. So it is very, very rare and if it happens more than once to the same account then bank will probably close the account...

Even so it is possible to block onion addresses on Bisq or "blacklist" payment accounts... but this block or any other reputation-based security feature is by nature incomplete as there is no permanent identity on Bisq.

[bisq_flix]

I should clarify that we have had chargebacks and payment reversal problems with other payment methods. That is why CashApp and Venmo were removed as payment options from Bisq.  (https://twitter.com/bisq_network/status/996124591662694400)

IMPORTANT: Cash App and Venmo payment methods have been blocked due to chargeback activity
https://bisq.community/t/important-cash-app-and-venmo-payment-methods-have-been-blocked-due-to-chargeback-activity/5459


We just have not had this problem with SEPA. I'm not saying it is impossible, just quite difficult.

[bisq_flix]

All You Need to Know About Decentralized Cryptocurrency Exchange Bisq.Network
https://btcmanager.com/decentralized-cryptocurrency-exchange-bisq-network/

To challenge the increasing influence of cryptocurrency exchanges in the industry, a group of independent software developers has developed Bisq, a decentralized exchange (DEX) platform.

[squatter]

Is there no reputation system? How do you determine who is trustworthy when dealing with fiat payments? Even bank wires are reversible.

Also, general question about the feasibility of KYC. IDEX is enforcing mandatory KYC, which shows that it's not truly decentralized. Is there any way this could happen on Bisq?

Almost 6000 SEPA Euro trades have happened on Bisq so far. Approximately 1% of those have gone to arbitration. 0 of them have been due to chargebacks.

Okay, that sounds promising. Any statistics for US bank wires? I'm looking for an alternative to Localbitcoins. High premiums with no KYC was justifiable. Less so now...

[bisq_flix]

Is there no reputation system? How do you determine who is trustworthy when dealing with fiat payments? Even bank wires are reversible.

Also, general question about the feasibility of KYC. IDEX is enforcing mandatory KYC, which shows that it's not truly decentralized. Is there any way this could happen on Bisq?

Almost 6000 SEPA Euro trades have happened on Bisq so far. Approximately 1% of those have gone to arbitration. 0 of them have been due to chargebacks.

Okay, that sounds promising. Any statistics for US bank wires? I'm looking for an alternative to Localbitcoins. High premiums with no KYC was justifiable. Less so now...

There's no centralized reputation system, but your Bisq client keeps a record of all the people you have transacted with so you can create a web-of-trust of sorts or block onion addresses of unreliable trading partners.

Regarding KYC, all current Bisq contributors are not only opposed to it, but determined to make it impossible to apply. We don't want to rely on good intentions ("Don't do evil") but rather want to make the system so that KYC or data gathering is physically impossible ("Can't do Evil").

I don't have the full data for USD transactions, but will try to get you as much detail as possible soon.

So far I can tell you that there have been 3,495 USD trades. Most using Zelle, but popular payment methods include Chase Quickpay, National Bank transfer and Cash Deposit. Face-to-face transfers are only just getting started. Venmo and CashApp were disabled as payment methods after a few chargeback issues.

 

[bisq_flix]

Okay, that sounds promising. Any statistics for US bank wires? I'm looking for an alternative to Localbitcoins.

Here are the stats for September 2018:

Out of a total of 958 trades, these were the top payment methods used and number of trades for each.

Altcoins  372
SEPA  213
Zelle  125        [US]
Faster Payments  56
Revolut  95
National Bank tx  21   [US]
Interact e-transfer  44
Cash Deposit  16   [US]
Chase QuickPay  0  [US]
MoneyBeam (N26)  6
Swish
F2F  4  [US]
US Postal Money Order 5  [US]


In the last 6 months there's been 100 US national bank wire transfers. 0 chargebacks. 2-3 arbitration cases, all due to errors. It is still early days as volumes are low... but it looks pretty safe so far.

[bisq_flix]

Volumes have been exploding recently:

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/bisq/
https://coin.dance/volume/bisq

Obviously volatility spurs trading... but normally $ voolume is highly correlated with price, so in a bear market we should expect total volumes to fall. However Bisq seems to be attracting many new users...

[Financisto]

Volumes have been exploding recently:

https://coinmarketcap.com/exchanges/bisq/
https://coin.dance/volume/bisq

Obviously volatility spurs trading... but normally $ voolume is highly correlated with price, so in a bear market we should expect total volumes to fall. However Bisq seems to be attracting many new users...

Impressive!

Congratulations!