[pandacoin] The Panda Coin ♥ Scrypt Adaptive-N w/Kimotos Gravity Well ★

[organizer]

The only people who really got hurt are:

- The whales, like Molly, who for some reason had faith in Wolong
- The IPO investors who got greedy, they saw instant 200-400% ROI and didn't sell
- The traders who bought at the top and the way down

Now, the traders (as i'm not one) should expect that risk on any coin, so is it a hurt? Maybe, but that's the game they play.

0 day miners had it the best, IMO. You ended up with a lot of coin that you were able to instantly flip at great profits. If you mine hype coins and don't immediately unload 50-75% as soon as you can, I think you're just being greedy. Figure out what you want to save and see if it goes to the moon. Sure, you won't make as much as you could have, but you also won't be left in this situation.

Now, with all that said, I am still compelled by the idea of this coin from a conceptual level. If you could work out some form of actual trust in an IPO (i think that vodcast mentioned multi-sig wallets as an example), and use the IPO BTC as a form of "stock buyback" to support the coin. I think that's a pretty good idea. It's what corporations do to support their shareholders if the price falls, so why not in crypto.

It clearly failed here on 2 fronts.

- The devs seemed relatively naive to cut such a deal with Wolong (I had no idea who he was before this coin). I mean, you let this guy get his hands on ALL the BTC AND the premine?! Did no one think this was a bad idea? This, plus the IRC logs, really illustrate to me that they are knuckleheads.

- Wolong's instability. Regardless of whether he got pissed off at a dev for selling some or not, he still could have made a shit ton of money if he kept things going and talked to the devs privately. This just reinforces the notion that the devs are kinda stupid for not really having full understanding of who they went into business with.  

So... how could this have succeeded?

I dunno, you needed some method to insulate the IPO BTC/Premine from the person(s) supporting the price. Put it in escrow, multi-sig (does this even exist yet?) wallet, in the hands of a reputable person.

You would also need to outline the use of the IPO BTC in support of the coin. i.e. "we'll support the IPO price with BTC and every 7 days, purchase x amount of BTC at current market prices until the IPO funds are used up (make it something like a 6 month timeframe where IPO funds would be put back into the coin if the price stays above IPO price). These bought back shares will be split among the devs/team as their salary (and outline specifically who is getting what)". Do something like that and have no additional premine on top of it and it might just work. But i'm only spitballing here, haven't really thought it through.

The shortcoming on any scheme like this though is the human/greed factor... which there seems to be plenty of here

[JTB800]

The only people who really got hurt are:

- The whales, like Molly, who for some reason had faith in Wolong
- The IPO investors who got greedy, they saw instant 200-400% ROI and didn't sell
- The traders who bought at the top and the way down

Now, the traders (as i'm not one) should expect that risk on any coin, so is it a hurt? Maybe, but that's the game they play.

0 day miners had it the best, IMO. You ended up with a lot of coin that you were able to instantly flip at great profits. If you mine hype coins and don't immediately unload 50-75% as soon as you can, I think you're just being greedy. Figure out what you want to save and see if it goes to the moon. Sure, you won't make as much as you could have, but you also won't be left in this situation.

Now, with all that said, I am still compelled by the idea of this coin from a conceptual level. If you could work out some form of actual trust in an IPO (i think that vodcast mentioned multi-sig wallets as an example), and use the IPO BTC as a form of "stock buyback" to support the coin. I think that's a pretty good idea. It's what corporations do to support their shareholders if the price falls, so why not in crypto.

It clearly failed here on 2 fronts.

- The devs seemed relatively naive to cut such a deal with Wolong (I had no idea who he was before this coin). I mean, you let this guy get his hands on ALL the BTC AND the premine?! Did no one think this was a bad idea? This, plus the IRC logs, really illustrate to me that they are knuckleheads.

- Wolong's instability. Regardless of whether he got pissed off at a dev for selling some or not, he still could have made a shit ton of money if he kept things going and talked to the devs privately. This just reinforces the notion that the devs are kinda stupid for not really having full understanding of who they went into business with.  

So... how could this have succeeded?

I dunno, you needed some method to insulate the IPO BTC/Premine from the person(s) supporting the price. Put it in escrow, multi-sig (does this even exist yet?) wallet, in the hands of a reputable person.

You would also need to outline the use of the IPO BTC in support of the coin. i.e. "we'll support the IPO price with BTC and every 7 days, purchase x amount of BTC at current market prices until the IPO funds are used up (make it something like a 6 month timeframe where IPO funds would be put back into the coin if the price stays above IPO price). These bought back shares will be split among the devs/team as their salary (and outline specifically who is getting what)". Do something like that and have no additional premine on top of it and it might just work. But i'm only spitballing here, haven't really thought it through.

The shortcoming on any scheme like this though is the human/greed factor... which there seems to be plenty of here

Agreed! It doesn't have to be this exact plan (as you point out), but something very similar.

Stop all of the whining and get a plan like this together -- now.

[JTB800]

Only animal on the planet that has celebrity status by default.

[citation needed]

So, Jake… How are those 500 satoshi going? Give or take 48 hours, right? Feeling good about it?

Yes, Warlock -- I'm very much looking forward to Tuesday.

Do you think that maybe I should sell a few coins at 480 or so, or do you think that I should hold out for that full 500 satoshi?

What will I ever do with all of that money I am about to make ... mmm 

[organizer]

The only people who really got hurt are:

- The whales, like Molly, who for some reason had faith in Wolong
- The IPO investors who got greedy, they saw instant 200-400% ROI and didn't sell
- The traders who bought at the top and the way down

Now, the traders (as i'm not one) should expect that risk on any coin, so is it a hurt? Maybe, but that's the game they play.

0 day miners had it the best, IMO. You ended up with a lot of coin that you were able to instantly flip at great profits. If you mine hype coins and don't immediately unload 50-75% as soon as you can, I think you're just being greedy. Figure out what you want to save and see if it goes to the moon. Sure, you won't make as much as you could have, but you also won't be left in this situation.

Now, with all that said, I am still compelled by the idea of this coin from a conceptual level. If you could work out some form of actual trust in an IPO (i think that vodcast mentioned multi-sig wallets as an example), and use the IPO BTC as a form of "stock buyback" to support the coin. I think that's a pretty good idea. It's what corporations do to support their shareholders if the price falls, so why not in crypto.

It clearly failed here on 2 fronts.

- The devs seemed relatively naive to cut such a deal with Wolong (I had no idea who he was before this coin). I mean, you let this guy get his hands on ALL the BTC AND the premine?! Did no one think this was a bad idea? This, plus the IRC logs, really illustrate to me that they are knuckleheads.

- Wolong's instability. Regardless of whether he got pissed off at a dev for selling some or not, he still could have made a shit ton of money if he kept things going and talked to the devs privately. This just reinforces the notion that the devs are kinda stupid for not really having full understanding of who they went into business with.  

So... how could this have succeeded?

I dunno, you needed some method to insulate the IPO BTC/Premine from the person(s) supporting the price. Put it in escrow, multi-sig (does this even exist yet?) wallet, in the hands of a reputable person.

You would also need to outline the use of the IPO BTC in support of the coin. i.e. "we'll support the IPO price with BTC and every 7 days, purchase x amount of BTC at current market prices until the IPO funds are used up (make it something like a 6 month timeframe where IPO funds would be put back into the coin if the price stays above IPO price). These bought back shares will be split among the devs/team as their salary (and outline specifically who is getting what)". Do something like that and have no additional premine on top of it and it might just work. But i'm only spitballing here, haven't really thought it through.

The shortcoming on any scheme like this though is the human/greed factor... which there seems to be plenty of here

Agreed! It doesn't have to be this exact plan (as you point out), but something very similar.

Stop all of the whining and get a plan like this together -- now.

Ohhh, just to be clear I am not advocating this for the current team. There's no community trust in either party to pull this off, I was just thinking of how it could succeed on a conceptual level (possibly)

[poochi]

I'm not want to post on message boards, however I feel compelled state my opinion on what I see going on here.   Most people are are going to hate what I have to say, but F them they are the sheeple that are bitching about getting scammed.

So here we go....

If you are "investing" cash you can't afford to lose in an alt-crypto currencies, you are a moron.  If you don't realize that the whole crypto currency is the new "Wild West" (USA slang reference) you are also a moron.  I have no problem when stupid people do stupid things and get crushed, learn from your mistakes.  I've traded futures and commodities for 16 years professionally as an exchange member, I learned what to do by learning what not to do.  The pain of losing money is a great teacher.  However, most people are to weak to learn from the pain and just quit. If you want to ever really make money trading anything, you need to realize losses are inevitable, and you need to take your losses when you plan isn't playing out.

I wasn't going to mine this coin because it premise was retarded, "backed by Wolong" Who the fuck is Wolong?  I looked him up and he is some "Asian Crypto Currency Sage"(sarcasm inserted).   Ok, after finding that out I thought... I want to mine this knowing this is going to be a pump and dump, especially after with all the hype that was coming around the launch date.  I was only made aware of this coin cause I was mining VRT, and another VRT miner told me about it.  So Mined the coin from the get go and 24hrs after.  I mined around 37million coins and sold up from 45 all the way to 98, my volume weighted average sell was 72.  This was my plan, be out within 2 days, max. Sooner if the market takes me out at prices.  

What I see on these boards are a lot of people who want to be "crypto currency traders" and a lot of people looking to get rich quick, but don't have a clue what they are doing or how markets work.  It's like the poker saying,  "If you sit down at the table and can't spot who the sucker is, it's you".  So to all the suckers you bought my coins from me, thank you and please learn from your mistakes and review your logic for buying this coin at the prices you did.  Don't ever put your money at risk because someone else gives you a tip,  consider who they are and what there angle is.  

My final thoughts are this... my miners are back on this coin and I'm using 20% of what I made from this coin to buy it back (my plan is risk 20% of what I made from this coin to buy it back knowing it could be worthless, but if it works the rewards are worth the risk) I've been buying below 5 sats and have bids in from 4 down to 1.  My premiss is probably 2/3 the coins are now controlled by less then 10 people.  It may take few more days to get the weak hands out and absorb what the other miners are selling, but I don't think the other big stake holders are are looking to for a few statoshi's on their positions.

Lastly, everyone says this coin is dead fuck it.  But I guarantee if this coin does move back up everyone denouncing it will come back and mine, in the end its all about the money.

FYI what are the odds I put on this coin coming back to life, I think around 20%, but if it does the size of my bet is worth the potential payoff.  

My rambling is over, hope I didn't piss off to many people.  If I did, then you don't get this game anyway, so who cares.

Equally, my word of advice is if you are not a professional trader, STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THIS COIN.

Let the traders (10 people) trade among themselves and see who's the one holding the bag.  THE END.

ONCE AGAIN, IF YOU ARE NOT A WHALE, STAY THE FUCK OUT OF THIS COIN.


- Advice from someone with as much experience as the poster quoted.

(never sit at a professional poker cable with your cash if you are an amateur)

Only way those poker players can make money is to suck in as many amateurs as possible.  It is time to move on and move away from this trap.

[JTB800]

Agreed! It doesn't have to be this exact plan (as you point out), but something very similar.

Stop all of the whining and get a plan like this together -- now.

Ohhh, just to be clear I am not advocating this for the current team. There's no community trust in either party to pull this off, I was just thinking of how it could succeed on a conceptual level (possibly)

Oh yes, you're correct I did not read it carefully enough.

Still, as I have said in earlier posts, this coin is almost certainly doomed. But a transfer to another team would at least give the poor newbies in this coin some hope. And may be its only chance. (of course, it goes without saying that major manipulation can occur with these things if the whales want to regardless of any "fundamentals".)

But again, you are right that there is very little hope for a success here as the taint on this "team" is just so large.

[poochi]

Agreed! It doesn't have to be this exact plan (as you point out), but something very similar.

Stop all of the whining and get a plan like this together -- now.

Ohhh, just to be clear I am not advocating this for the current team. There's no community trust in either party to pull this off, I was just thinking of how it could succeed on a conceptual level (possibly)

Oh yes, you're correct I did not read it carefully enough.

Still, as I have said in earlier posts, this coin is almost certainly doomed. But a transfer to another team would at least give the poor newbies in this coin some hope. And may be its only chance. (of course, it goes without saying that major manipulation can occur with these things if the whales want to regardless of any "fundamentals".)

But again, you are right that there is very little hope for a success here as the taint on this "team" is just so large.

Hope + Greed

and

Fear + Despair

Noobs need to stay out, this is exactly the formula to lose money and this coin exemplifies that

This coin has no fundamentals and is now a plaything for the traders.

So many coins are under 5 satoshis right now, this is the worst one for a noob to touch.

If you cannot afford to lose, you cannot afford to go all in or average down on this piece of shit.  Stay away from this coin, and diversify your coins portfolio with other quality currencies and sell into  whales pump.

If you are too poor to move the market, enjoy the ride and thank whales for giving you free money.  You have a better chance to profit from contrarian play above your cost than to do momentum play, up or down

[JTB800]

Hope + Greed

and

Fear + Despair

Noobs need to stay out, this is exactly the formula to lose money and this coin exemplifies that

This coin has no fundamentals and is now a plaything for the traders.

So many coins are under 5 satoshis right now, this is the worst one for a noob to touch.

I agree with you, but who do you think bought this coin? Outside of the usual greedy miners, it was all noobs. Everyone else was screaming scam at them. I know they were stupid and I was laughing at them too, but I have come to feel sorry for them at this point.

But, you are right in that this coin could be zero and fast and newbies should think twice about sinking anymore money into this dog.

[flounderella]

I'm not want to post on message boards, however I feel compelled state my opinion on what I see going on here.   Most people are are going to hate what I have to say, but F them they are the sheeple that are bitching about getting scammed.

So here we go....

If you are "investing" cash you can't afford to lose in an alt-crypto currencies, you are a moron.  If you don't realize that the whole crypto currency is the new "Wild West" (USA slang reference) you are also a moron.  I have no problem when stupid people do stupid things and get crushed, learn from your mistakes.  I've traded futures and commodities for 16 years professionally as an exchange member, I learned what to do by learning what not to do.  The pain of losing money is a great teacher.  However, most people are to weak to learn from the pain and just quit. If you want to ever really make money trading anything, you need to realize losses are inevitable, and you need to take your losses when you plan isn't playing out.

I wasn't going to mine this coin because it premise was retarded, "backed by Wolong" Who the fuck is Wolong?  I looked him up and he is some "Asian Crypto Currency Sage"(sarcasm inserted).   Ok, after finding that out I thought... I want to mine this knowing this is going to be a pump and dump, especially after with all the hype that was coming around the launch date.  I was only made aware of this coin cause I was mining VRT, and another VRT miner told me about it.  So Mined the coin from the get go and 24hrs after.  I mined around 37million coins and sold up from 45 all the way to 98, my volume weighted average sell was 72.  This was my plan, be out within 2 days, max. Sooner if the market takes me out at prices.  

What I see on these boards are a lot of people who want to be "crypto currency traders" and a lot of people looking to get rich quick, but don't have a clue what they are doing or how markets work.  It's like the poker saying,  "If you sit down at the table and can't spot who the sucker is, it's you".  So to all the suckers you bought my coins from me, thank you and please learn from your mistakes and review your logic for buying this coin at the prices you did.  Don't ever put your money at risk because someone else gives you a tip,  consider who they are and what there angle is.  

My final thoughts are this... my miners are back on this coin and I'm using 20% of what I made from this coin to buy it back (my plan is risk 20% of what I made from this coin to buy it back knowing it could be worthless, but if it works the rewards are worth the risk) I've been buying below 5 sats and have bids in from 4 down to 1.  My premiss is probably 2/3 the coins are now controlled by less then 10 people.  It may take few more days to get the weak hands out and absorb what the other miners are selling, but I don't think the other big stake holders are are looking to for a few statoshi's on their positions.

Lastly, everyone says this coin is dead fuck it.  But I guarantee if this coin does move back up everyone denouncing it will come back and mine, in the end its all about the money.

FYI what are the odds I put on this coin coming back to life, I think around 20%, but if it does the size of my bet is worth the potential payoff.  

My rambling is over, hope I didn't piss off to many people.  If I did, then you don't get this game anyway, so who cares.

Finally, someone with a set of balls and an IQ that isn't equal to the IQ of a rock. Bravo!

+1

My god, the first intelligent comment I've read all week here in this silly thread.

[poochi]

How to profit from PANDA right now if you are holding the bag

1. Treat this coin as a lost cause
2. DO NOT BUY ANYMORE
3. Set a price above the current price and hope some whale will pump and buy up your coins
4. Look away, and ignore this, and tell everyone you know the same
5. Enjoy your day and week and however long it takes for this to bounce, meanwhile there are a lot more other profitable coins out there


If you are a miner, you can accumulate PANDA position at cost of opportunity only.  Hold a portion as speculative play, put the rest up for sale at a price you are happy with.  Walk away and enjoy your day.

[poochi]

Hope + Greed

and

Fear + Despair

Noobs need to stay out, this is exactly the formula to lose money and this coin exemplifies that

This coin has no fundamentals and is now a plaything for the traders.

So many coins are under 5 satoshis right now, this is the worst one for a noob to touch.

I agree with you, but who do you think bought this coin? Outside of the usual greedy miners, it was all noobs. Everyone else was screaming scam at them. I know they were stupid and I was laughing at them too, but I have come to feel sorry for them at this point.

But, you are right in that this coin could be zero and fast and newbies should think twice about sinking anymore money into this dog.

Noobs need to be burned bad so they remember the lesson.  No sympathy to them.  

There is no free money, most profits in crypto right now are costing someone somewhere, and someone needs to hold the bag unless a real community decided to back the coin long term.

A dollar you make at this point is a dollar someone else loses - and hopefully the losers are speculators/traders/whales and not someone who genuinely want to see crypto currency succeed.

[alc]

The shortcoming on any scheme like this though is the human/greed factor... which there seems to be plenty of here

Yes. What you're outlining, as I understood it, is inherently centralised. This is the exact situation that Bitcoin sidesteps, because selfish self-interest is what makes fiat currencies flawed (the bank will close its doors in a "run on the bank" scenario, a government might experiment with money creation causing spiralling inflation, etc etc). All of these problems exist because control of the wealth is in the wrong place - it's with some central authority, rather than in the hands of the people whose wealth it represents and to whom it rightfully belongs. Bitcoin does away with this. Ostensibly, there's no trust required anywhere in the system. Miners can be as selfish as they like, they will still only get their share according to hashrate. A man with a wallet can announce to the world that he's a bank and that people should keep their bitcoins with him, but any straight-thinking individual will reject this offer because they know that, with their own wallet, they are the bank. Nobody need trust anybody else for the network to function.

The reason Pandacoin failed is because it inherited all the flaws of a centralised system with none of the checks and balances. It would've been lunacy to just hand over the premine to anyone, let alone Wolong. The potential for abuse was glaringly obvious. It may be that you can mitigate the possibility of abuse by building functionality into the system itself (zero-trust contracts etc), and if that works and is trust-free and secure, that's fine - but placing a trust-based infrastructure literally on top of a cryptocurrency is an approach that is inherently ripe for abuse. Pandacoin is an excellent example of what happens if you don't take heed of the vulnerability of the situation.

Apologies if I'm preaching to the choir here, I know many of you are more than aware of this stuff, it's just that so many people don't seem to have seen the massive red flag that was present in the OP, and it makes me wonder why.

[poochi]

The shortcoming on any scheme like this though is the human/greed factor... which there seems to be plenty of here

Yes. What you're outlining, as I understood it, is inherently centralised. This is the exact situation that Bitcoin sidesteps, because selfish self-interest is what makes fiat currencies flawed (the bank will close its doors in a "run on the bank" scenario, a government might experiment with money creation causing spiralling inflation, etc etc). All of these problems exist because control of the wealth is in the wrong place - it's with some central authority, rather than in the hands of the people whose wealth it represents and to whom it rightfully belongs. Bitcoin does away with this. Ostensibly, there's no trust required anywhere in the system. Miners can be as selfish as they like, they will still only get their share according to hashrate. A man with a wallet can announce to the world that he's a bank and that people should keep their bitcoins with him, but any straight-thinking individual will reject this offer because they know that, with their own wallet, they are the bank. Nobody need trust anybody else for the network to function.

The reason Pandacoin failed is because it inherited all the flaws of a centralised system with none of the checks and balances. It would've been lunacy to just hand over the premine to anyone, let alone Wolong. The potential for abuse was glaringly obvious. It may be that you can mitigate the possibility of abuse by building functionality into the system itself (zero-trust contracts etc), and if that works and is trust-free and secure, that's fine - but placing a trust-based infrastructure literally on top of a cryptocurrency is an approach that is inherently ripe for abuse. Pandacoin is an excellent example of what happens if you don't take heed of the vulnerability of the situation.

Apologies if I'm preaching to the choir here, I know many of you are more than aware of this stuff, it's just that so many people don't seem to have seen the massive red flag that was present in the OP, and it makes me wonder why.

+1

[TheStuhlman]

Are you Still mining This trash coin?

Brought to you by: Ali-Woolong and the 40 Thieves!

Then look no further: come mine it @ Nitro

But for Gods sake stop buying this Garbage.

[organizer]

The reason Pandacoin failed is because it inherited all the flaws of a centralised system with none of the checks and balances.

This about sums it up perfectly. I just wonder if there is a way to do it in a manner that doesn't scream dump. I'd like to see someone try an IPO with known and trusted devs and structure the IPO so that there is no additional premine and the development team gets their rewards out of actively growing the coin (via the system I described earlier where the BTC investment all goes back into supporting the IPO price and buying shares from the market on scheduled intervals) with the dev team getting the coin (and not BTC) as reward for their work. I wonder if the community would object to this type of system, it seems pretty good in terms of IPOs because if the devs live up to the system, they too can be bagholders if they really aren't planning on trying to create a good coin.

[yannis7777]

Are you Still mining This trash coin?

Brought to you by: Ali-Woolong and the 40 Thieves!

Then look no further: come mine it @ Nitro

But for Gods sake stop buying this Garbage.

LOL

[Solrak]

WTS 1,300,000 Pandacoin
pm offers.

What is it?

[nigttran]

WTS 3.000 Mil Panda (3.000.000.000) at 50 satoshi.

Pm to offers

[intuit]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0d/Trash_bin.png

Are you Still mining This trash coin?

Brought to you by: Ali-Woolong and the 40 Thieves!

Then look no further: come mine it @ Nitro

But for Gods sake stop buying this Garbage.

*Laugh my large buttocks off*

[Jayem]

Are you Still mining This trash coin?

Brought to you by: Ali-Woolong and the 40 Thieves!

Then look no further: come mine it @ Nitro

But for Gods sake stop buying this Garbage.