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Author Topic: [ANN] Blacknet BLN | Staking | Token Platform in Development  (Read 2505173 times)
zeta93
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March 28, 2014, 10:41:00 PM
 #10661

RE: BlackCoin virtual/real Visa and Mastercard

tl;dr this will never happen.

Preface: I'm not saying this to hurt BlackCoin. I believe in it, am invested in it, and put my company into it.

Content: That said, there's a lot of naivete going around here, from buyers who haven't been around the crypto community very long, and I think it needs to be set right. There is no point in people getting their expectations up about this.

This card will never exist. There have been a couple attempts since 2011 to do this with Bitcoin. The closest anyone got I'm pretty sure was Charlie Shrem. Visa/MC declined to give him permission after rounds of legal back and forth. At the time that was not V/MC policy because they had no policy on it. Now it is.

Visa and Mastercard have the ultimate say over whether a certain card will be issued, and they have a lot to lose from virtual currencies. They are not going to allow a direct route for withdrawal from crypto to fiat through an ATM. It's not going to happen.

I'm not saying this to burst anyone's bubble, I'm saying it so that a bubble will not form around this idea. Because those of us who've been transacting in crypto/fiat for a long time now understand that this is completely blocked by the card companies and is not going to get off the ground.

I completely appreciate what the OP is trying to do here and applaud his enthusiasm, but prior to a conversation with the card companies this is nothing.

Thank you for your comments.

First read this if you haven't: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=469640.msg5955668#msg5955668

With all do respect but that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. There are already dedicated Bitcoin ATM machines in the US, and Canada has decided to allow customers to withdraw Bitcoin funds from standard ATM machines. You can already move your cryptocurrencies to a debit card with a few extra steps. I am just eliminating the few extra steps to make it easier for everyone. As I pointed out in my post it will not be called a credit card, but a rewards card. I am not attempting to be a financial institution issuing credit cards, or even PayPal, that is an entirely different thing. People will just be redeeming their BlackCoins for a branded BlackCoin debit card. To say something will never happen is simply ignorant, just as ignorant as me saying it will definitely happen. I rather try my best and be denied, than not try at all because of someone else being denied in the past, or because someone doesn't believe it can happen. And for the record, the representative I spoke with this morning said I have more than a 50% chance getting this approved with the wording and implementation I illustrated.    


PS: I remember the naysayers who said no major retail store would ever accept Bitcoin, how did that prediction pan out?

The Bitcoin ATMs operate by doing BTC<>USD conversion on an exchange before they spit out the money and they are NOT using Visa/MC or any other fiat payment gateways to run the transactions. The whole reason they are "bitcoin atms" is because they are stand-alone machines, like a soda machine, operated by a private owner, who chooses to release BTC for a certain price against the inbound transaction.

There is no way that cirrus or visa or other networks will allow a card that withdraws a crypto directly to fiat.

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, but I remember when Charlie and a lot of people were really optimistic about it. They started the project when we were at about $30 and they got rejected by MC sometime around the $200 level (for Bitcoin). Because technically, there's nothing illegal or wrong about this. Trust me, it will not fly. Do the research first with V & MC so you don't waste a lot of money before you find out they won't let you do this.

Also Charlie is under house arrest now. In theory that doesn't have anything to do with this but in practice it's probably just not something you want to lean on real hard.


Why you don't use this www.entropay.com for virtual and real Visa card, easy, accepted everywhere, you don't need approval from Visa Card, check, i'm using this from 4-5 years
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PeterPalmBeach
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March 28, 2014, 10:48:02 PM
 #10662

RE: BlackCoin virtual/real Visa and Mastercard

tl;dr this will never happen.

Preface: I'm not saying this to hurt BlackCoin. I believe in it, am invested in it, and put my company into it.

Content: That said, there's a lot of naivete going around here, from buyers who haven't been around the crypto community very long, and I think it needs to be set right. There is no point in people getting their expectations up about this.

This card will never exist. There have been a couple attempts since 2011 to do this with Bitcoin. The closest anyone got I'm pretty sure was Charlie Shrem. Visa/MC declined to give him permission after rounds of legal back and forth. At the time that was not V/MC policy because they had no policy on it. Now it is.

Visa and Mastercard have the ultimate say over whether a certain card will be issued, and they have a lot to lose from virtual currencies. They are not going to allow a direct route for withdrawal from crypto to fiat through an ATM. It's not going to happen.

I'm not saying this to burst anyone's bubble, I'm saying it so that a bubble will not form around this idea. Because those of us who've been transacting in crypto/fiat for a long time now understand that this is completely blocked by the card companies and is not going to get off the ground.

I completely appreciate what the OP is trying to do here and applaud his enthusiasm, but prior to a conversation with the card companies this is nothing.

Thank you for your comments.

First read this if you haven't: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=469640.msg5955668#msg5955668

With all do respect but that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. There are already dedicated Bitcoin ATM machines in the US, and Canada has decided to allow customers to withdraw Bitcoin funds from standard ATM machines. You can already move your cryptocurrencies to a debit card with a few extra steps. I am just eliminating the few extra steps to make it easier for everyone. As I pointed out in my post it will not be called a credit card, but a rewards card. I am not attempting to be a financial institution issuing credit cards, or even PayPal, that is an entirely different thing. People will just be redeeming their BlackCoins for a branded BlackCoin debit card. To say something will never happen is simply ignorant, just as ignorant as me saying it will definitely happen. I rather try my best and be denied, than not try at all because of someone else being denied in the past, or because someone doesn't believe it can happen. And for the record, the representative I spoke with this morning said I have more than a 50% chance getting this approved with the wording and implementation I illustrated.    


PS: I remember the naysayers who said no major retail store would ever accept Bitcoin, how did that prediction pan out?

The Bitcoin ATMs operate by doing BTC<>USD conversion on an exchange before they spit out the money and they are NOT using Visa/MC or any other fiat payment gateways to run the transactions. The whole reason they are "bitcoin atms" is because they are stand-alone machines, like a soda machine, operated by a private owner, who chooses to release BTC for a certain price against the inbound transaction.

There is no way that cirrus or visa or other networks will allow a card that withdraws a crypto directly to fiat.

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, but I remember when Charlie and a lot of people were really optimistic about it. They started the project when we were at about $30 and they got rejected by MC sometime around the $200 level (for Bitcoin). Because technically, there's nothing illegal or wrong about this. Trust me, it will not fly. Do the research first with V & MC so you don't waste a lot of money before you find out they won't let you do this.

Also Charlie is under house arrest now. In theory that doesn't have anything to do with this but in practice it's probably just not something you want to lean on real hard.


Why you don't use this www.entropay.com for virtual and real Visa card, easy, accepted everywhere, you don't need approval from Visa Card, check, i'm using this from 4-5 years

r u 4 real ?
PeterPalmBeach
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March 28, 2014, 10:54:47 PM
 #10663

Wow BC is getting closer to be under 500 BTC 24 hour volume on MintPal.
That's strange. Calm before the storm  Wink
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March 28, 2014, 10:58:39 PM
 #10664

Wow BC is getting closer to be under 500 BTC 24 hour volume on MintPal.
That's strange. Calm before the storm  Wink

volume dries up at a particular level and it must move to a different level. I expect up Tongue
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March 28, 2014, 11:04:05 PM
 #10665

The Bitcoin ATMs operate by doing BTC<>USD conversion on an exchange before they spit out the money and they are NOT using Visa/MC or any other fiat payment gateways to run the transactions. The whole reason they are "bitcoin atms" is because they are stand-alone machines, like a soda machine, operated by a private owner, who chooses to release BTC for a certain price against the inbound transaction.

There is no way that cirrus or visa or other networks will allow a card that withdraws a crypto directly to fiat.

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, but I remember when Charlie and a lot of people were really optimistic about it. They started the project when we were at about $30 and they got rejected by MC sometime around the $200 level (for Bitcoin). Because technically, there's nothing illegal or wrong about this. Trust me, it will not fly. Do the research first with V & MC so you don't waste a lot of money before you find out they won't let you do this.

Also Charlie is under house arrest now. In theory that doesn't have anything to do with this but in practice it's probably just not something you want to lean on real hard.

You continue to make nonfactual statements like: "There is no way that cirrus or visa or other networks will allow a card that withdraws a crypto directly to fiat", or "Trust me, it will not fly". That is your opinion and not fact. Have you spoken to Visa/Mastercard or any United States financial institution? Have you personally attempted to try this? What was tried by someone several years ago doesn't apply to me or what I am planning now. With all do respect, just because you own an online casino doesn't mean you are an authority on Visa, United States financial institutions, or even cryptocurrency in a whole. I have noticed in previous posts you have made opinionated statements and presented them as facts. The only fact here is no one knows, including me, what the outcome will be.

I am interested in reading constructive criticism and people voicing their legitimate concerns. I welcome both positive and negative feedback from all. But what I am not interested in reading is someone presenting opinions as fact.
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March 28, 2014, 11:07:51 PM
 #10666

It was the first hybrid PoW/PoS to go to only PoS with 0 premine and no IPO...... others=crap

I think IPO was genius, now they creators have a lot of money that they can use to create a really awesome product.  Oh well, I guess we all have our favorites..  Nxt has huge things coming it's way though.
This is not good way when you all coin distribute to 72 people... Price doesn't matter.

IPO - generally there is no scam behind it IPO investors took risk only risk, but is stupid when whole amount you divide to only 72 people like with NXT.
More fair is system is like BC with POW distribution and high difficulty at beginning and initial about 5000 users at beginning...

If some people have even hmm 5m BC that is only beouse we let them to have it... Don't sell cheap and don't cry later is that big problem ?
If someone sold BC for 500 and now price is about ~5000 he will come here and flame about BC...scam...FUDs... but in reality he can not stand his loss.
If someone have even 2m BC this is just because he was willing to buy it at current market price.
He is keeping BC and he is rewarding for that anyway all who flame BC could did the same noone prevent them...

NXT is total different coin than BC.
BC is building his community from scratch it have to every new member add some value to BC some new concepts / ideas.
Some people are making stuff like BCpool,Casino...
BC Devs is real poor about 35k/74m 0,0005% from donations... same time premined coins have eg. 1%-5% market share...
Do you see difference ? One Dev is making something for fun for some adventure other to be honest mostly for $ profit.
Eg. when some developer want create some green energy saving coin and he officially don't support multipoolpump idea but he is agreed that it can help them.
I just asked myself who it will help? Ok at beginning he will have more some coin but at the and of story whole green idea is broken and Dev looks like person who cares only about profit...
Not about idea behind it...
I just liked when people came here and wanted more % of interest and rat4 wrote in FAQ something like that.
1% interest to small for you...What you doing here try HBN...(150% true inflation this year 100% from POS 50% from POW)
But in few days he removed that HBN part to do not make free commercial for HBN Cheesy haha...
Point is that he hard refuse breaking concept of coin for quicker $ and to attract more people.


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March 28, 2014, 11:15:21 PM
 #10667


Important info about Coin-Swap
Coin-Swap's new market system is going live today, March 28. Like our old system, our new exchange does not follow the typical pattern of depositing to a wallet->trading from wallet balance->request a withdrawal.
Instead, you create a market order and you are given a deposit address for that order. When that order executes, you are paid out immediately.

We believe by allowing you to work out of your wallet it minimizes your risk. We don't believe you should treat an exchange like a bank!

Important Feature - AutoSell
When you create a market order, you can set your mining pool payout address to this market address. You can continue to deposit coins DIRECTLY into the market. This allows you to autosell what you are mining. If your order is depleted, it will re-open when a new deposit arrives. The price will either be set at the last price you had it, or it will automatically adjust the price to the last price if that is a better price for you. Example, if you sell at one price, but the market has gone up since then, it will automatically raise your price to the last sale price for you. It will not adjust it down, even if the market drops below where your last sale price was.

Dynamic Price Change
You do not need to cancel and recreate an order to change the price. You can change the price of your orders at any time. Once the new API is up, you can change the price via API or our Android/iPhone app (coming soon).

To get started you need to register.
Register

You then need to provide YOUR wallet addresses where you will receive coins. You will need to enter your BC address as well as a BTC or DOGE address, whichever market you plan on using.
Profile

Then head to the BC markets.
Markets
BC/BTC
BC/DOGE

If you have any issues, comments, or suggestions, please contact us and we will get back to you as quickly as possible.
Contact Us

Coin-Swap Team



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March 28, 2014, 11:49:30 PM
 #10668

The Bitcoin ATMs operate by doing BTC<>USD conversion on an exchange before they spit out the money and they are NOT using Visa/MC or any other fiat payment gateways to run the transactions. The whole reason they are "bitcoin atms" is because they are stand-alone machines, like a soda machine, operated by a private owner, who chooses to release BTC for a certain price against the inbound transaction.

There is no way that cirrus or visa or other networks will allow a card that withdraws a crypto directly to fiat.

I'm not trying to shoot down your idea, but I remember when Charlie and a lot of people were really optimistic about it. They started the project when we were at about $30 and they got rejected by MC sometime around the $200 level (for Bitcoin). Because technically, there's nothing illegal or wrong about this. Trust me, it will not fly. Do the research first with V & MC so you don't waste a lot of money before you find out they won't let you do this.

Also Charlie is under house arrest now. In theory that doesn't have anything to do with this but in practice it's probably just not something you want to lean on real hard.

You continue to make nonfactual statements like: "There is no way that cirrus or visa or other networks will allow a card that withdraws a crypto directly to fiat", or "Trust me, it will not fly". That is your opinion and not fact. Have you spoken to Visa/Mastercard or any United States financial institution? Have you personally attempted to try this? What was tried by someone several years ago doesn't apply to me or what I am planning now. With all do respect, just because you own an online casino doesn't mean you are an authority on Visa, United States financial institutions, or even cryptocurrency in a whole. I have noticed in previous posts you have made opinionated statements and presented them as facts. The only fact here is no one knows, including me, what the outcome will be.

I am interested in reading constructive criticism and people voicing their legitimate concerns. I welcome both positive and negative feedback from all. But what I am not interested in reading is someone presenting opinions as fact.

This isn't an opinion, really - it's just an observation that the same thing was tried about a year ago by the founder of BitInstant which was already turning large profits and had good connections, and when it fell apart the reason was that mastercard had said they wouldn't do it.

I remember this from semi-private chats at the time, because our casino was super excited about being on board with the project.

If you think I'm talking out of my ass about something, feel free to call me on it. What I am saying though is that you should research the difficult end of the business you're proposing -- credit card integration -- before you make sweeping announcements here that would lead people to think it might actually happen. You can be defensive and angry at me if you want, but in all honesty, YOU should be the one making the disclaimers and warnings to people that I'm making. No my negativity will not stop you if you really have the power to pull it off, and no your positivity will not actually help you. So let's cut the crap. This has been tried and does not work, and your next move is probably to start pre-selling them to people.

Just go ahead and do it, and when it's done, let us know.

FWIW you might have noticed that when we moved into BlackCoin we gave zero prior warning, on this forum or anywhere else. We just did what we wanted to do, opened it, then announced. It's one thing to "get the community's opinion" but it's another to use it as a pumping strategy and a leadup to a scam. So now you know the community is interested. If/when you actually have these cards, give a shout.

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March 28, 2014, 11:52:59 PM
 #10669

After some talk with Coinpayments.net they have decided to add Blackcoin!!

If you find a store accepting Coinpayments but not BC, ALWAYS send the store an email to start accepting it.

https://www.coinpayments.net/supported-coins

More information will follow from devs.


Regards
Jilixi

Owner of BlackCoin Store - BlackCoin Store
BC: BNatbck1SDJebHRMQemkUEFPVZR9uLHLrM
BTC: 161EcdmbgmxpZMk2ssZCjGQqB6gypduu97
ssaCEO
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March 28, 2014, 11:54:48 PM
 #10670

After some talk with Coinpayments.net they have decided to add Blackcoin!!

If you find a store accepting Coinpayments but not BC, ALWAYS send the store an email to start accepting it.

https://www.coinpayments.net/supported-coins

More information will follow from devs.


Regards
Jilixi
^^ +1000  Grin

PeterPalmBeach
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March 29, 2014, 12:04:08 AM
 #10671

After some talk with Coinpayments.net they have decided to add Blackcoin!!

If you find a store accepting Coinpayments but not BC, ALWAYS send the store an email to start accepting it.

https://www.coinpayments.net/supported-coins

More information will follow from devs.


Regards
Jilixi
^^ +1000  Grin

Next; amazon gift cards, Newegg cards, game cards, merchandise etc..
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March 29, 2014, 12:13:41 AM
 #10672

I have been using this site, it is U.K., but has an increasing number of Giftcards available to spend instore or online.
https://pock.io/shop/cards

I keep thinking it would be great if BlackCoin were accepted there also.
I don't see why not.  BlackCoin is a much better coin than some of those already accepted there.
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March 29, 2014, 12:15:05 AM
 #10673

After some talk with Coinpayments.net they have decided to add Blackcoin!!

If you find a store accepting Coinpayments but not BC, ALWAYS send the store an email to start accepting it.

https://www.coinpayments.net/supported-coins

More information will follow from devs.


Regards
Jilixi

+1000

Quote
Update: CoinPayments.net has been sold to a trusted member of the Bitcoin community, Cycloid. His team will be running the site by March 31st and CoinPayments will continue operations without any interruption.

It will be interesting to see what Cycloid does with it in the future.

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StuartGT
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March 29, 2014, 12:20:35 AM
 #10674

After some talk with Coinpayments.net they have decided to add Blackcoin!!

If you find a store accepting Coinpayments but not BC, ALWAYS send the store an email to start accepting it.

https://www.coinpayments.net/supported-coins

More information will follow from devs.


Regards
Jilixi
^^ +1000  Grin

Next; amazon gift cards, Newegg cards, game cards, merchandise etc..

Excellent news Smiley

I have been using this site, it is U.K., but has an increasing number of Giftcards available to spend instore or online.
https://pock.io/shop/cards

I keep thinking it would be great if BlackCoin were accepted there also.
I don't see why not.  BlackCoin is a much better coin than some of those already accepted there.

Their Facebook & Twitter for BC acceptance requests:
https://www.facebook.com/pockiouk
https://twitter.com/pockiouk
IconicExpert
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March 29, 2014, 12:39:04 AM
 #10675

This isn't an opinion, really - it's just an observation that the same thing was tried about a year ago by the founder of BitInstant which was already turning large profits and had good connections, and when it fell apart the reason was that mastercard had said they wouldn't do it.

I remember this from semi-private chats at the time, because our casino was super excited about being on board with the project.

If you think I'm talking out of my ass about something, feel free to call me on it. What I am saying though is that you should research the difficult end of the business you're proposing -- credit card integration -- before you make sweeping announcements here that would lead people to think it might actually happen. You can be defensive and angry at me if you want, but in all honesty, YOU should be the one making the disclaimers and warnings to people that I'm making. No my negativity will not stop you if you really have the power to pull it off, and no your positivity will not actually help you. So let's cut the crap. This has been tried and does not work, and your next move is probably to start pre-selling them to people.

Just go ahead and do it, and when it's done, let us know.

FWIW you might have noticed that when we moved into BlackCoin we gave zero prior warning, on this forum or anywhere else. We just did what we wanted to do, opened it, then announced. It's one thing to "get the community's opinion" but it's another to use it as a pumping strategy and a leadup to a scam. So now you know the community is interested. If/when you actually have these cards, give a shout.

I will not go back and forth with you on this. I honestly do not think you thoroughly read any of my previous posts. I sincerely believe you briefly scanned though my posts and just started making assumptive comments. I made it clear from the start this was not going to be easy and I have no idea if this will be approved. Never once did I state or imply this is a done deal. I presented the idea to the community in a whole to see if was something the community wanted and/or needed. Why would I spend my time and money on something I wasn't sure the community wanted and/or needed? Furthermore, I do not get angry over words in a forum, you are entitled to your opinion like everyone else here.

When I spoke to the representative this morning, if there wasn't even a slight chance of this going forward she would have told me no. This is her job and she has more knowledge about this than me and you combined.

Also, I am trying to bring extra value to BlackCoin and give something to the BlackCoin community everyone can rally behind. It is great you accepted BlackCoin at your casino, but do not pretend like you are bringing extra value to the community. The only one benefiting from you accepting BlackCoin at your casino is you, so please stop acting as if you are doing the BlackCoin community a favor. And no offense, according to Alexa.com very few people go to your website. So I am not sure besides posting negative comments how you are helping the BlackCoin community.

Thank you for your opinion and comments. Now if you do not have anything else to add please move on.

PS: A few months ago when I launched Music Chow, I remember someone in a forum stated: "Why does the world need another  music app? You will never be able to compete with iTunes or Spotify, so don't even bother". Roughly 6 months later Music Chow is the top downloaded desktop Music app in Brazil. The Music Chow website site is the 675 most visited website in Brazil, and quickly gaining ground in America. My point is I do not let negativity or the comments of strangers dissuade me from accomplishing my goals.

Music Chow: http://musicchow.com/
Nearly 1.9 million downloads on Baixaki: http://www.baixaki.com.br/download/music-chow.htm
Top List: http://www.baixaki.com.br/top-semanal.htm
Alexa Rank: http://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/musicchow.com





dzimbeck
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March 29, 2014, 01:24:45 AM
 #10676

This message goes out to the fool that keeps dumping Blackcoin during the China thing and rebuying:

Stop doing it... you are a greedy fool and you will make more money if you just WAIT for the pool to push the price up.
If you wanna do crap like that go do it with Litecoin they are the pump+dump coin and they have the volume to support it.

The higher the price, the more people will notice the blackcoin multipool and the more money you make. So if you just be patient you will be make 10 times more money.

If you dont wait then the pools hashrate will probably go down and that could really screw up everyones chance of making money including yours.

So this goes out to everyone: Stop dumping your coins if bitcoin falls then everyone including you will lose money since the volume is not there to support it yet
The 500k volume is an exaggeration since sell orders of a large size can still significantly impact the price.

This is a very dangerous time to be dumping with these china rumors and if you keep doing it and the bottom falls out you wont be able to get your money out without significant loss. Just let the price build... the volume is not here yet to support a massive 100K+ dump on the market. If you keep selling and a big holder dumps the volume is not there yet to support it. So WAIT. The longer we all wait the better.

Consider how much money you will make if you just HOLD. This coin does not need to be dumped since the multipool will bring the price up for you. The more you wait, the more we all make because the more investors notice it and get involved. Please have some common sense and really think this through.
buddynuno
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March 29, 2014, 01:35:32 AM
 #10677

This message goes out to the fool that keeps dumping Blackcoin during the China thing and rebuying:

Stop doing it... you are a greedy fool and you will make more money if you just WAIT for the pool to push the price up.
If you wanna do crap like that go do it with Litecoin they are the pump+dump coin and they have the volume to support it.

The higher the price, the more people will notice the blackcoin multipool and the more money you make. So if you just be patient you will be make 10 times more money.

If you dont wait then the pools hashrate will probably go down and that could really screw up everyones chance of making money including yours.

So this goes out to everyone: Stop dumping your coins if bitcoin falls then everyone including you will lose money since the volume is not there to support it yet
The 500k volume is an exaggeration since sell orders of a large size can still significantly impact the price.

This is a very dangerous time to be dumping with these china rumors and if you keep doing it and the bottom falls out you wont be able to get your money out without significant loss. Just let the price build... the volume is not here yet to support a massive 100K+ dump on the market. If you keep selling and a big holder dumps the volume is not there yet to support it. So WAIT. The longer we all wait the better.

Consider how much money you will make if you just HOLD. This coin does not need to be dumped since the multipool will bring the price up for you. The more you wait, the more we all make because the more investors notice it and get involved. Please have some common sense and really think this through.

I hate to disapoint you but these are the Cryptorush scammers that stole 1.5 million Blackcoins from their clients that are dumping.

I am afraid we are still going to see alot of dumping since I think only around 400k were dumped in the market to this day!!!

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Zackgeno96
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March 29, 2014, 01:37:21 AM
 #10678

the future for this coin is very bright  Cool
Jherek
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March 29, 2014, 01:48:45 AM
 #10679


IPO - generally there is no scam behind it IPO investors took risk only risk, but is stupid when whole amount you divide to only 72 people like with NXT.
More fair is system is like BC with POW distribution and high difficulty at beginning and initial about 5000 users at beginning...

IPO is always scam. Why? Because IPO gives coin devs profit before their coin even started. When their coin starts and gets success, they earn twice. Should the coin fail, they still have the IPO profits. It's like you open a poker table and claim a reward for starting it before you even played. So, IPO for "coin development and services" and similar crap is always scam no matter how one turns it.
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March 29, 2014, 01:49:29 AM
 #10680

Quote
So this goes out to everyone: Stop dumping your coins if bitcoin falls then everyone including you will lose money since the volume is not there to support it yet

Is the bottom really is that close to falling out?
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