[ANN][WOLF] Project WOLF

[flo_k]

Ok, I'll try it (windows 7)

[1715646223]

1715646223

[1715646223]

1715646223

[InsanityDev]

Ok, I'll try it (windows 7)

cheers, fyi all coins acquired on Insanity Sunday have now been destroyed - results post updated with links etc

[cubicdissection]

Sent a PM, willing to text windows 7.

Also have excess hosting capacity; willing to donate for website if you need.

[InsanityDev]

Sent a PM, willing to text windows 7.

Also have excess hosting capacity; willing to donate for website if you need.

thanks, pm sent - hosting appreciated but unneeded, have a securely and neutrally located  i7-3770/32 GB/2x3TB+SSD dedicated linux box for this project

[Pompobit]

please test new qt client on windows 7 64 bit too, I've built it on a 32 bit version and only tested there

[cubicdissection]

please test new qt client on windows 7 64 bit too, I've built it on a 32 bit version and only tested there

I just ran it on windows 7 64 bit.  Opened it, synched the blockchain, created a couple new addresses, closed it.  No issues; working as expected

[cubicdissection]

thanks, pm sent - hosting appreciated but unneeded, have a securely and neutrally located  i7-3770/32 GB/2x3TB+SSD dedicated linux box for this project

Awesome!  This is a fun project; thanks for doing it

[vlight]

What is the point of destroying coins? If you destroy some of the coins, the market cap goes down and you will not increase the value of the remaining coins.

[flo_k]

please test new qt client on windows 7 64 bit too, I've built it on a 32 bit version and only tested there

I just ran it on windows 7 64 bit.  Opened it, synched the blockchain, created a couple new addresses, closed it.  No issues; working as expected

Tested on windows 7 64 bit too, the runtime error disappeared and works ok.

[InsanityDev]

What is the point of destroying coins? If you destroy some of the coins, the market cap goes down and you will not increase the value of the remaining coins.

Somebody asked at last!

Let us ignore the market cap for now, and move on to supply vs demand. WOLF is a social experiment dressed as a trading game and wrapped in a crypto currency, which supposes over a wider time frame that:

• a) over time demand will rise naturally (organic social networking between traders and investors)
• b) over time supply will reduce (via 10% tx fees, and weekly coin destruction)

and over a shorter per week time frame that:

• short term greed for bitcoin will serve to grow a+b exponentially
• a weekly known injection of bitcoin will reinforce the base price and grow overall trust in WOLF

WOLF will reinforce these suggestions if all supply coins from me are sold out before the end of the 9 week game. If that does happen then Market Cap does become an important measurement, and should grow week in week out from when the coin supply dries out to the end of the 9 weeks. In this situation if the price after Insanity Sunday stabilizes x% higher than where it was at the start, where x is the percentage of coin supply destroyed then cap grows. (Simple maths: Week 7, 650k coins in circulation, 35k buy back (5%), price would have to settle more than 5% higher after a known 100 BTC injection and additional market buyers with BTC).

In the process I hope that people just enjoy trading with other traders in an environment with no surprises or bots (hidden coin piles, miners dumping, scamming, artificial inflation, no demand etc), learn some trading strategies, learn how to react in the presence of a whale so they aren't so manipulated, and ultimately just have some fun.

If it helps any, after week 1 there was 79.9k WOLF bought, 43.9k destroyed, leaving 35.7k in circulation. 150 BTC went in through the pot and market traders (22+134), leaving an established base price of 0.001 with natural buy support on market, and an average coin "value" of 0.00197 BTC per coin (70/35600), even though supply is still 0.001 from me, and the average trade profit was 80% from players last week. Quite strange and interesting.

Hope that helps a little.

[Pompobit]

please test new qt client on windows 7 64 bit too, I've built it on a 32 bit version and only tested there

I just ran it on windows 7 64 bit.  Opened it, synched the blockchain, created a couple new addresses, closed it.  No issues; working as expected

Tested on windows 7 64 bit too, the runtime error disappeared and works ok.

Phew, I was scared about having to build statically again all libraries for 64 bit systems 

[jomama22]

im really missing where this can gain value. Why would anyone pay over .001 if that is where the price is constantly set?

[Pompobit]

im really missing where this can gain value. Why would anyone pay over .001 if that is where the price is constantly set?

The value can increase above .001

- on sunday, when at least 100 XBT worth (I'm confident for the next weeks the cap of 100 XBT will be reached) will be bought
- after 9th week. This is obviously pure speculation, we have not examples on crypto coins lecterature that apply well to wolves

[ZeroK]

im really missing where this can gain value. Why would anyone pay over .001 if that is where the price is constantly set?

On Insanity Sundays the supply is cut, and the price moves higher both in anticipation of and because of the buy back of WOLF from the BTC pot.

[InsanityDev]

im really missing where this can gain value. Why would anyone pay over .001 if that is where the price is constantly set?

Please read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5342870#msg5342870 and the Ann.

Ultra short is that 0.001 supply is limited, once it's gone it's gone. Additionally once a week the supply is cut for a day, Insanity Sunday, where all BTC from purchases goes back in to market, see the results of yesterday's here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5323853#msg5323853

The after 9 weeks model is something that remains to be seen, but it could easily move to a different core model where there was a tiny block reward, or tx fee cut or increase, or at week 5 we could decide as a community to start raising supply cost, or wipe out 25% of the supply, or, or.. for now let's keep the current set up and see what happens.

[gtac01]

im really missing where this can gain value. Why would anyone pay over .001 if that is where the price is constantly set?

Please read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5342870#msg5342870 and the Ann.

Ultra short is that 0.001 supply is limited, once it's gone it's gone. Additionally once a week the supply is cut for a day, Insanity Sunday, where all BTC from purchases goes back in to market, see the results of yesterday's here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5323853#msg5323853

The after 9 weeks model is something that remains to be seen, but it could easily move to a different core model where there was a tiny block reward, or tx fee cut or increase, or at week 5 we could decide as a community to start raising supply cost, or wipe out 25% of the supply, or, or.. for now let's keep the current set up and see what happens.

I vote for destroying half of the supply and cutting it to 4/5 weeks. In crypto, 9 weeks is way too long and no body is holding long term to see what happens in 9 weeks so you can expect everyone to want out each sunday. If there were only 4 weeks left one might consider it, improving insanity sundays and building a base of people who don't just want some quick profit.

[BlackMarket]

I vote for destroying half of the supply and cutting it to 4/5 weeks. In crypto, 9 weeks is way too long and no body is holding long term to see what happens in 9 weeks so you can expect everyone to want out each sunday. If there were only 4 weeks left one might consider it, improving insanity sundays and building a base of people who don't just want some quick profit.

yes, i agree with you, 9 weeks is too long 

[mmihai1978]

im really missing where this can gain value. Why would anyone pay over .001 if that is where the price is constantly set?

Please read https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5342870#msg5342870 and the Ann.

Ultra short is that 0.001 supply is limited, once it's gone it's gone. Additionally once a week the supply is cut for a day, Insanity Sunday, where all BTC from purchases goes back in to market, see the results of yesterday's here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=471166.msg5323853#msg5323853

The after 9 weeks model is something that remains to be seen, but it could easily move to a different core model where there was a tiny block reward, or tx fee cut or increase, or at week 5 we could decide as a community to start raising supply cost, or wipe out 25% of the supply, or, or.. for now let's keep the current set up and see what happens.

pls keep it as is for the moment.

it is much too early to draw conclusions or predict anything. 2nd week should set-up the trend and then it would be easier to decide whether to maintain or accelerate the whole process.

[flo_k]

In the process I hope that people just enjoy trading with other traders in an environment with no surprises or bots (hidden coin piles, miners dumping, scamming, artificial inflation, no demand etc), learn some trading strategies, learn how to react in the presence of a whale so they aren't so manipulated, and ultimately just have some fun.

Indeed, yesterday you gave us a good trading lesson
However, the only problem I see is that this experiment is conducted in an artificial environment, not exactly as in real life.
I mean that on Insanity Sundays there are not real buyers (apart from some few uninformed "strangers"), but only one whale (you) and a lot of sellers (the rest of us) - and this leads to a total imbalance.
Of course, theoretically we could play against you the inverse game and put buy walls - but this means to bring into play our bitcoins and to collect together at least 100, for the balance. In practice that would be very risky, because a group of strangers can not coordinate as a single person and is very likely that we would lose.
Maybe it would be easier to coordinate for a simple strategy - for example to sell, all of us, at 0.005. This could work, but I'm afraid that  the result would be only an illusion! In reality the price of the Wolf will not grow, for (at least) two reasons: 1. because the next day it will be again available to buy at 0.001 and 2. because you will have less coins to destroy, so that the "rarity" factor will not work in our favor (as expected), but leading to a long-term loss.

I don't know if it would be an improvement, but maybe you could consider this idea: to sell the weekly Wolfs at the price resulted as average during the previous Insanity Sunday. For example to sell this week at 0.0018 and, eventually, to raise the pot at 180 BTC (to provide the same amount of Wolf). What do you think?

[InsanityDev]

We are only 7 days in, we will definitely keep things as they are now for a few weeks. 9 weeks is a long time for some, and not long for others, you tend to find the first 3 months is when weak hands get out of coins, letting investors get in cheap, so IMHO 9 weeks certainly is not long.

I mean that on Insanity Sundays there are not real buyers (apart from some few uninformed "strangers"), but only one whale (you) and a lot of sellers (the rest of us) - and this leads to a total imbalance.

This is incorrect, there were informed buyers with funds equal to ~50% of the BTC in the pot, and no doubt many others watching & waiting for the next week.

Each trader has confidence in their own strategy, the more confident they are the harder they find it to understand the moves of others. This will be the biggest challenge for many, another will be breaking bad habits, the desperation to throw away a coin as cheap as you can, even when you have 100% certainty that a whale is just about to buy.

Raising the price of the supply ensures exponential decline, it would just be people dumping on the subsequent buyers each week, this is why most coins fail.

The trust in the value of a coin (not a price, it having value) is the main thing missing for the crypto community at large, so many people will sell at any cost, even a loss, spiralling the death of their own investments. Imagine what would happen if the majority decided a coin was valuable, they would hold, place orders higher and higher than each other, demand would rise and value would rise. The thing which kills most cryptos is the holders having no belief in the thing they hold having value.

Let us see how this unfolds, in some ways it's a measure of the community, and in many ways what each person says in this thread exposes their own thoughts and trading strategy.

Please do keep the discussion & ideas coming, as this is one of the few ann threads which comprises primarily of informed discussion and comment, for that I'm already proud of the project and all of you.