Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?

[anu]

That's not exactly what Freicoin intends to do. Their goal is for Bitcoin to remain the long-term store of value, while Freicoin becomes the high-velocity everyday currency. Even poor people could exchange effortlessly back and forth because they're both cryptocurrencies.

No poor people cannot effectively change small amounts between crypto currencies because even with crypto currencies minimum fees and limits can cripple them. I actually ran into the following situation yesterday. I received 10 NMC from a mining pool and decided to sell them on BTC-E for BTC to produce a grand total of 0.042 BTC. When it came to withdraw the BTC I find that there is a minimum of 0.1 BTC for a withdrawal amount and a fee of 0.01 BTC.

What is your benchmark? You are talking about $1. That is not a lot of money anywhere and is not crippling anyone - a device capable of running Bitcoin is still in the order of $50.

[1714975270]

1714975270

[markm]

What is your benchmark? You are talking about $1. That is not a lot of money anywhere and is not crippling anyone - a device capable of running Bitcoin is still in the order of $50.

Right. So only well-to-do merchants can afford such a device, and folk limited to brainwallets and earning 0.0457 BTC a day might well find a cheaper blockchain based currency, with its presumably lower fees, more suitable than bitcoin for their needs.

-MarkM-

[Richy_T]

What is your benchmark? You are talking about $1. That is not a lot of money anywhere and is not crippling anyone - a device capable of running Bitcoin is still in the order of $50.

Right. So only well-to-do merchants can afford such a device, and folk limited to brainwallets and earning 0.0457 BTC a day might well find a cheaper blockchain based currency, with its presumably lower fees, more suitable than bitcoin for their needs.

-MarkM-

$4, runs java. You'd maybe need a public/shared terminal and there may be security implications but there are options out there.

[ArticMine]

What is your benchmark? You are talking about $1. That is not a lot of money anywhere and is not crippling anyone - a device capable of running Bitcoin is still in the order of $50.

Right. So only well-to-do merchants can afford such a device, and folk limited to brainwallets and earning 0.0457 BTC a day might well find a cheaper blockchain based currency, with its presumably lower fees, more suitable than bitcoin for their needs.

-MarkM-

The fees and limits I mentioned arise only because of suggestion of using Bitcoin in conjunction with another crypto-currency such as Freicoin requiring the trading between crypto-currencies. If one sticks to only Bitcoin then the poorest of the poor can use it in an extremely cost effective manner.

As for devices to run bitcoind for free or very close to free there are all sorts of options including the many perfectly good computers that are discarded or "recycled" every day because of problems with Microsoft Windows. Ditch Windows, install GNU/Linux and give it a way to a needy person. This has the added benefit of addressing the growing environmental problem of e-waste.

[bg002h]

The answer is simple: they have their own coin.  They don't believe in store of value or permanent reward for work.   They have their own demurage currency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency) called
Freicoin: Bitcoin with demurrage. Basically, money not spent decreases in value to encourage spending and decrease people saving money and getting rich.

ADDENDUM: didn't realize this thread started october 12, last year!

[kiba]

The answer is simple: they have their own coin.  They don't believe in store of value or permanent reward for work.   They have their own demurage currency http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demurrage_(currency) called
Freicoin: Bitcoin with demurrage. Basically, money not spent decreases in value to encourage spending and decrease people saving money and getting rich.

And nobody will actually use it.

[ShireSilver]

Im patiently waiting for someone to release something that users of those dirt cheap nokia phones can use.

You mean something like Coinapult? http://coinapult.com/sms-wallet

[Richy_T]

Hey, I want my name on it 

I'm thinking it could have a QR code. Or maybe be totally custom. Of course, QR code would imply preloaded with a key.

[Richy_T]

Im patiently waiting for someone to release something that users of those dirt cheap nokia phones can use.

You mean something like Coinapult? http://coinapult.com/sms-wallet

I think he means Brew?

[Wekkel]

I think the big win will be going low tech and enabling developing countries.

I am on the same page. Mobile payments (SMS) are already big in countries like India. BTC could fly if smartphones and mobile Internet massively penetrate developing countries.

[sharky112065]

Because they are broke. People that are employed do not have time to protest. 

[grondilu]

Because they are broke. People that are employed do not have time to protest. 

That's possibly the best explanation.  Which gives me an idea for a poll.

[SouthernComfort]

The issue here is one of perception (image) vs reality (substance). The perception is that a demurrage currency (Freicoin) favors the poor over the rich while a deflationary currency (Bitcoin) favors the rich over the poor. After all the rich have more money than the poor. The reality is the exact opposite. Bitcoin actually favors the poor while Freicoin favors the rich. Unfortunately we live in an age where image more often than not trumps substance so it is not surprising at all that the Occupy Movement would come up with Freicoin and be skeptical towards Bitcoin.

[ArticMine]

The issue here is one of perception (image) vs reality (substance). The perception is that a demurrage currency (Freicoin) favors the poor over the rich while a deflationary currency (Bitcoin) favors the rich over the poor. After all the rich have more money than the poor. The reality is the exact opposite. Bitcoin actually favors the poor while Freicoin favors the rich. Unfortunately we live in an age where image more often than not trumps substance so it is not surprising at all that the Occupy Movement would come up with Freicoin and be skeptical towards Bitcoin.

+1

[kiba]

The issue here is one of perception (image) vs reality (substance). The perception is that a demurrage currency (Freicoin) favors the poor over the rich while a deflationary currency (Bitcoin) favors the rich over the poor. After all the rich have more money than the poor. The reality is the exact opposite. Bitcoin actually favors the poor while Freicoin favors the rich. Unfortunately we live in an age where image more often than not trumps substance so it is not surprising at all that the Occupy Movement would come up with Freicoin and be skeptical towards Bitcoin.

To be demonstrated.

[coqui33]

Has anyone mentioned that occupiers tend to be statists (or at least try to influence government) and bitcoiners tend to be libertarians (or at least distrustful of government)?

[herzmeister]

Occupy has all kinds of people, from statist leftists who believe only more regulation can help, to left-anarchists and libertarian socialists who want no state, to market libertarians and Ron Paul folks.

Also Freicoin has not much to do with that movement. In Germany, Silvio Gesell and his idea of demurrage money is actually considered rather reactionary and right-wing.