Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?

[phelix]

anyone work up a decent flier on bitcoin for these people? I'm thinking of handing them out at the occupy richmond thing going on this weekend.

you might want to ask deslok (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=23737), he made a poster

[o]

I have been trying to promote bitcoin a bit on facebook and other pages for the 15th october global protest...

Isn't what the protesters want, exactly down to almost the tiniest detail, what bitcoin will offer?

Or do they just want to protest?

Does anyone have tips on how to best communicate bitcoin when talking to occupy protesters?

Probably automatic banking system

Just tell them there is a workable alternative system that does not need any bank to print money and transfer money. Now they can abolish the bank and there is no need to feed banker anymore. They should show interest because they hate that governments give them money and no punishment. The protest has no solid theme yet and it suggests that there is a way to change the system. Then tell them roughly how it work...

They can ask the gov to change the system, or use bitcoin. It is not likely that the system can be changed in 10 years time so they will pay more attention on bitcoin

[Forp]

The question is very interesting.

In my opinion it is a matter of adoption. People are trained to work in exchange for colored pieces of paper. They are accustomed to it (although they protest this custom).

Now comes a guy telling you to

1) go to a website (fine)
2) download a program (fine)
3) install the program (ah, hm, well, ok)
4) keep your antivirus up to date (what is antivirus ??)
5) secure your wallet.dat (my WHAT ??)
6) backup your wallet after creation of new private keys (whose private parts ?)
7) tell your employer to pay to account number (what is that funny string meant to be ??)
not to turn your pc off but to let the bitcoin program shut down properly first ()
9) think about wallet security (what ??)
10) update the bitcoin client once in a while (aha ?!?)

and finally, when the money is stolen or lost, that it is your fault since you did not properly backup your junk or kept your system secure.

Ok. I'd also rather have my colored pieces of paper.

We must solve the usability issues of Bitcoin for the end-user, who is not a computer person.

[Nesetalis]

built in backup and 'first run' backup method would be a good start. Plus alerting you when it has changed the database enough that you need to run another backup.

[CoinHumper]

Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?

Probably because they have no idea it exist.

[deslok]

Feed the protest is currently accepting bitcoin doinations, #operationbitcoin (irc.freenode.net) is currently working to raise bitcoin awareness during such protests

[BadBear]

The question is very interesting.

In my opinion it is a matter of adoption. People are trained to work in exchange for colored pieces of paper. They are accustomed to it (although they protest this custom).

Now comes a guy telling you to

1) go to a website (fine)
2) download a program (fine)
3) install the program (ah, hm, well, ok)
4) keep your antivirus up to date (what is antivirus ??)
5) secure your wallet.dat (my WHAT ??)
6) backup your wallet after creation of new private keys (whose private parts ?)
7) tell your employer to pay to account number (what is that funny string meant to be ??)
not to turn your pc off but to let the bitcoin program shut down properly first ()
9) think about wallet security (what ??)
10) update the bitcoin client once in a while (aha ?!?)

and finally, when the money is stolen or lost, that it is your fault since you did not properly backup your junk or kept your system secure.

Ok. I'd also rather have my colored pieces of paper.

We must solve the usability issues of Bitcoin for the end-user, who is not a computer person.

I don't work for pieces of paper, I work for numbers sent to my electronic bank account.

This should be easy for kids these days: (Regular money - bitcoin)

1. Sign up at this website (BANK X - Web Wallet Service)
2. Get this number from the website (Routing number + account number - bitcoin address)
3. Give the number to employer
4. Do work, get paid
5. Go to website, send money to pay billsBANK X scams all your coins and you are left with nothing and no recourse

Fixed that for ya. 

[WiseOldOwl]

Couldn't you guys have chosen another thread to dump your conspiracies/FUD in? I was actually looking for constructive debate on a specific issue as posted in the OP.

Does anyone have tips on how to best communicate bitcoin when talking to occupy protesters?

I tried but they are the absolute definition of MTV Generation.
Package your ideas up in a socialist/communistic wrapping, and they might listen.

It truly is-
"I am pissed and lazy, and I am certain I will never contribute or amount to anything significant. So give me something."

I don't even have the words for how disappointed I am in those people.

Do you have an example of how you would package it up in socialist wrappings? But you are right, they are people who want stuff from others, so i think the idea in operationbitcoin.org of handing out free bitcoins is really good.

America != Socialist _______
Shouldn't have to be wrapped up. Info is widely available, they are brain dead by their own doings. Just like the fact that you are supposed to learn all laws pertaining to you on your own time. You are held responsible for all laws you break whether you knew of them or not. This is old roman theory, and we use it today. Basically, It's their fault they are dumb. They should no better than to promote socialism in a capitalist country. They need to learn the problem better so they can see how to fix it. They will never try to research though, so what are you going to do?

[the founder]

I'll explain why:

You :  Use Bitcoins!  They avoid the banking system entirely!

Protester :  Wow!  Sign me up!

You :  It's Easy,  just go to bitcoin.org,  download the client,  wait 3 hours for the blockchain to update your client,  make sure your firewall has the port open,  you'll get a huge hash string.   Then tell people that went though that same process to send you bitcoins!

Protester : huh?

You : Didn't you get it?   See the client is the way you can send and receive bitcoins!

Protester :  Ok I got that, but I still don't have any bitcoins?

You :  Ok now you gotta sign up for Dowalla,  get an account and link it to your bank account it will deposit 2 charges in your bank account in a few days and then you have to verify those deposits with dowalla.    Then you can send money with it.

Protester:  Wait,  I have to use a bank to get out of the bank?

You : Yes

Protester :  go on.

You : Now you have to go on an exchange,  like Mt. Gox or Tradehill and link your dowallah account and your bitcoin address from step one,  and start bidding and paying for bitcoins.   If you get any then you have to transfer the bitcoins from mt. gox to your personal bitcoin client.

Protester :  holy shit,  I'm going to just hold this sign.   This is way too complicated.

You :  Wait until you hear how mining and block chains work.

Protester :  forget it.   

[WiseOldOwl]

I'll explain why:

You :  Use Bitcoins!  They avoid the banking system entirely!

Protester :  Wow!  Sign me up!

You :  It's Easy,  just go to bitcoin.org,  download the client,  wait 3 hours for the blockchain to update your client,  make sure your firewall has the port open,  you'll get a huge hash string.   Then tell people that went though that same process to send you bitcoins!

Protester : huh?

You : Didn't you get it?   See the client is the way you can send and receive bitcoins!

Protester :  Ok I got that, but I still don't have any bitcoins?

You :  Ok now you gotta sign up for Dowalla,  get an account and link it to your bank account it will deposit 2 charges in your bank account in a few days and then you have to verify those deposits with dowalla.    Then you can send money with it.

Protester:  Wait,  I have to use a bank to get out of the bank?

You : Yes

Protester :  go on.

You : Now you have to go on an exchange,  like Mt. Gox or Tradehill and link your dowallah account and your bitcoin address from step one,  and start bidding and paying for bitcoins.   If you get any then you have to transfer the bitcoins from mt. gox to your personal bitcoin client.

Protester :  holy shit,  I'm going to just hold this sign.   This is way too complicated.

You :  Wait until you hear how mining and block chains work.

Protester :  forget it.   

Awesome lol, well done.

[BitterTea]

wait 3 hours for the blockchain to update your client

You don't need to wait for the blockchain to download to receive money. As soon as you start Bitcoin you can create addresses, and you will even see incoming transactions appear right away. They just won't confirm until the appropriate block is downloaded.

make sure your firewall has the port open

Also not necessary, 8 connections is sufficient for average use.

Ok now you gotta sign up for Dowalla,  get an account and link it to your bank account it will deposit 2 charges in your bank account in a few days and then you have to verify those deposits with dowalla. Now you have to go on an exchange,  like Mt. Gox or Tradehill and link your dowallah account and your bitcoin address from step one,  and start bidding and paying for bitcoins.   If you get any then you have to transfer the bitcoins from mt. gox to your personal bitcoin client.

Most exchanges don't accept Dwolla anymore due to the risk of "chargeback". If you're already talking to a protester about Bitcoins, why not just sell them some?

So... mostly FUD. Designed to make it appear that a centralized solution (FlexCoin) is superior.

[Rarity]

Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?

Probably because they have no idea it exist.

Don't be so sure.  I'm across the pond so I can't be on Wall St. but the leftist ideology I share with a lot of the protestors is exactly why I believe so strongly in Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is the only solution to allow the people to truly monitor and regulate the wealth of the bankers.  When all transactions can be observed and the total supply of money is limited the redistribution socialists like myself have been clamoring for can finally begin.  The Government will not be able to sabotage the process anymore by printing unlimited money to give to the banks to cover their losses and falsely protect their wealth.

[the founder]

So... mostly FUD. Designed to make it appear that a centralized solution is superior.

Not even close.    Not by 1000 miles close.

Even a centralized solution still has the problem of how do you get bitcoins in the first place.     It's a complicated process that does not allow (in the instance) for the protests to take the cause.

So as much as you would love to twist this...   my solution still doesn't sell you bitcoins.

[BitterTea]

Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?

Probably because they have no idea it exist.

Don't be so sure.  I'm across the pond so I can't be on Wall St. but the leftist ideology I share with a lot of the protestors is exactly why I believe so strongly in Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is the only solution to allow the people to truly monitor and regulate the wealth of the bankers.  When all transactions can be observed and the total supply of money is limited the redistribution socialists like myself have been clamoring for can finally begin.  The Government will not be able to sabotage the process anymore by printing unlimited money to give to the banks to cover their losses and falsely protect their wealth.

How do you plan on redistributing the wealth of the rich to yourself?

For that matter, if you think it is possible, what makes you think that they can't do the same to you?

[Rarity]

Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?

Probably because they have no idea it exist.

Don't be so sure.  I'm across the pond so I can't be on Wall St. but the leftist ideology I share with a lot of the protestors is exactly why I believe so strongly in Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is the only solution to allow the people to truly monitor and regulate the wealth of the bankers.  When all transactions can be observed and the total supply of money is limited the redistribution socialists like myself have been clamoring for can finally begin.  The Government will not be able to sabotage the process anymore by printing unlimited money to give to the banks to cover their losses and falsely protect their wealth.

How do you plan on redistributing the wealth of the rich to yourself?

Through taxes if possible, with pitchforks if necessary.

For that matter, if you think it is possible, what makes you think that they can't do the same to you?

Nothing stops them under the current system, for the most part they already did it which is why the world economy is in the situation that it is.  In general, the answer to the question is that what stops them now is that there is barely anything left for the rich to take from the poor.  We are at the point where everything they take endangers the ability of the poor to support the consumer society which made the wealthy the wealthy in the first place.

[tvbcof]

Why is the Occupy movement not immediately embracing bitcoin?

Probably because they have no idea it exist.

Don't be so sure.  I'm across the pond so I can't be on Wall St. but the leftist ideology I share with a lot of the protestors is exactly why I believe so strongly in Bitcoin.  Bitcoin is the only solution to allow the people to truly monitor and regulate the wealth of the bankers.  When all transactions can be observed and the total supply of money is limited the redistribution socialists like myself have been clamoring for can finally begin.  The Government will not be able to sabotage the process anymore by printing unlimited money to give to the banks to cover their losses and falsely protect their wealth.

The Avatar and 'inflammatory' content of your post smacks of SA goonishness.  But whatever the case, I agree fairly significantly.

BTW, I am mostly a believer in democracy.  I'd be as compfortable as anything with a majority of the population deciding how the wealth should be distributed.  I've never met anyone who honestly believes that a ditch digger should have an equal slice of the pie as a doctor.  Not even a ditch digger.  While I am sure that some people exist, I am confident that they are a tiny minority.  Thus, I feel that the most 'stable' (although not necessarily 'fair') decision for distribution of the wealth of a nation should be made by a majority of the population.  

Leaving the decision about distribution of wealth to the wealthy is a proven looser in my opinion.  One thing that drives me up the wall are these bleeding-heart Libertarians who somehow think that all people are created equal.  They are not.  In a mud-hut+ society, an tiny advantages in some areas are magnfied into a singificantly increased ability to exploit one's fellow citizen.  So, the cost of living in a stable society and enjoying the benefits thereof, are social constructs which even out the playing field.  (All my theory, of course, though I suspect that they mirror various scholars works...possibly Marx for all I know.)

[Forp]

This should be easy for kids these days: (Regular money - bitcoin)

It should be easy. It is not.

More important: It should be safe. It is not.

Even more important: The employer should know how to send me Bitcoin. He does not.

Absolutely essential: It should not be gone in case my hardware fails, my room mate catches a virus on a porn site, my cat chews the USB disc. A "real" bank usually does not lose money due to a IT issue.

[BitterTea]

This should be easy for kids these days: (Regular money - bitcoin)

It should be easy. It is not.

More important: It should be safe. It is not.

Even more important: The employer should know how to send me Bitcoin. He does not.

Absolutely essential: It should not be gone in case my hardware fails, my room mate catches a virus on a porn site, my cat chews the USB disc. A "real" bank usually does not lose money due to a IT issue.

You can back up your wallet to any number of storage media, both online (Wuala, Dropbox, web mail, etc) or offline (USB drive, CD, paper, etc). In the case of the offline options, you can even put them in a safe or bank safety deposit box for extra security. You can encrypt the wallet before you do all this, for even more security.

[BitcoinPorn]

I have been trying to promote bitcoin a bit on facebook and other pages for the 15th october global protest...

Isn't what the protesters want, exactly down to almost the tiniest detail, what bitcoin will offer?

Everything but trust and security with the other users.  I slowed recommending Bitcoin to anyone I know big time until a lot of those things get resolved, which I am not sure there is necessarily solutions to all the security issues.

[repentance]

I don't work for pieces of paper, I work for numbers sent to my electronic bank account.

This should be easy for kids these days: (Regular money - bitcoin)

1. Sign up at this website (BANK X - Web Wallet Service)
2. Get this number from the website (Routing number + account number - bitcoin address)
3. Give the number to employer
4. Do work, get paid
5. Go to website, send money to pay bills

Step 5 is the sticking point for a large number of people.  Their day to day living expenses need to be paid in their local currency and getting paid in Bitcoins would mean having to withdraw the coins from their wallet and sell them in order to obtain the cash to pay their bills - with the added risk that the Bitcoins will have dropped in value between the time the employer sends them to the account and the time the employee sells them.

It's hard to sell people on something which is actually more complicated than what they're currently used to and which adds extra layers of inconvenience to their lives.