ANN-EMC2 Einsteinium FUNDING THE FUTURE WITH THE FUTURE OF CURRENCY KMD-dPoW

[Timespace]

20 gridseeds and a rig with 5 MSI R9 280x's

a little of both - though I prefer the rig - it's fun - the gridseeds are just brainless pods. No fun but they pay the electric bill for the GPU's : LOL!

and my argument are real and legitimate - some folks here just refuse to acknowledge reality and want it both ways...and sorry - you can't have it both ways - sure you can go way of Ultracoin which no one is interested in and it's lack of value or evidence to that fact. I wouldn't waste one watt mining it. I'd rather burn a light all night - at least with the light bulb - I get something in return: LIGHT!

Have you read about the ASIC farms for bitcoin? I know it is unavoidable, but the manufacturers are the farmers. They took money from people like you investing in their ASICs and turned it into a huge profit making machine, likely before you get your units. Granted the gridseeds came out quickly and weren't really preorder or a long wait as far as I know. I like ASICs and the idea of it, but there is no regulation as far as how and when they can release their product. Bumping an already sold out unit by 150% is fishy. And it won't ship for who knows how many months? This is a classic example of technology being kept from the general public to enrich a few. It's almost depressing. Those gridseeds and the GPUs will soon get down to a dollar a mega hash a day. And it won't get better from there. The return on investment will likely be over one hundred days and by that point you won't be getting much actual profit. I understand that you can't have cake and eat it too, but when the idea hits the masses, they will turn off or switch rigs. They are doing that already.

[derbrause]

Btw. can you please disable the top wordpress-bar for non-admin/legitimate users (which are only registered for the votings) at the foundation website.

@functions.php

Code:

if(!current_user_can('manage_options')) 
{
    add_filter('show_admin_bar', '__return_false');
}

Have you figured out how to transfer the fund to the winner? If there are any news, please also update the twitter account so that we all can spread (or retweet ) the word. It's too quiet there...

My bad - im the tchilp-guy .. gonna boost that now!

I forwarded your suggestion to our webdev - Thanks for the advice !

[Timespace]

Keep it coming guys - The whole team is reading every single post very interested!
We waited for the time when the discussion will take place so please dont let it die... discuss the x11 pro's and con's.

A little fuel:
We looked up the code and were able to see that the current 'power savings' are just temporary as the algo itself is very bad in shape so its not properly configured which leads to less work for the card. So if its 'optimized' ( which is something bad in this case :-) ) in the future that energy saving 'feature' will fall apart but the hashrate will rise because of optimiziation.
Furthermore all algos used in x11 are optimized for ASICs :-)

That a nice thing ! Future are very good with this coin

Interesting about the power efficiency going down once the algo is fully optimized. Is there really 50% room to grow there? If so, this kind of sways me a bit into looking at a purely science/math benefiting algo. I don't think it will be nearly as popular as x11 though. Balance the potential popularity and thus price increase from x11 and the unpopular but science/math helpful algo. Which helps science/math more?

[jjj0923]

20 gridseeds and a rig with 5 MSI R9 280x's

a little of both - though I prefer the rig - it's fun - the gridseeds are just brainless pods. No fun but they pay the electric bill for the GPU's : LOL!

and my argument are real and legitimate - some folks here just refuse to acknowledge reality and want it both ways...and sorry - you can't have it both ways - sure you can go way of Ultracoin which no one is interested in and it's lack of value or evidence to that fact. I wouldn't waste one watt mining it. I'd rather burn a light all night - at least with the light bulb - I get something in return: LIGHT!

Have you read about the ASIC farms for bitcoin? I know it is unavoidable, but the manufacturers are the farmers. They took money from people like you investing in their ASICs and turned it into a huge profit making machine, likely before you get your units. Granted the gridseeds came out quickly and weren't really preorder or a long wait as far as I know. I like ASICs and the idea of it, but there is no regulation as far as how and when they can release their product. Bumping an already sold out unit by 150% is fishy. And it won't ship for who knows how many months? This is a classic example of technology being kept from the general public to enrich a few. It's almost depressing. Those gridseeds and the GPUs will soon get down to a dollar a mega hash a day. And it won't get better from there. The return on investment will likely be over one hundred days and by that point you won't be getting much actual profit. I understand that you can't have cake and eat it too, but when the idea hits the masses, they will turn off or switch rigs. They are doing that already.

it appears to me that you have a problem with capitalism - well - that's your problem not mine.

why is is that some people always need someone to blame?

[praxiscat]

1. The exchange arguement I am not even going to justify. I have purchased and traded for most of my coin on exchanges. They are a necessary part of the success of the coin.
2. This is more to the heart of the question. Is ASIC resistance necessary forever: NO. But having large ASICs early in the lifecycle of the coin can actually harm the coin. It would both create a big barrier for entry, and kill any chance we have at building a broader community over the next 8 months which will be critical. ASICs later can help maintain the network, those mining for 1 coin per block with the possibility of a wormhole will not make sense to be gpu miners. This is not about making the coin ASIC proof. This is really a matter of timing more than anything. While ASICs are going to happen with X11 (and any other algorithm) eventually, it may take 12-18 months, especially if the alternative algorithms are fragmented, which they have.
3. To those who say the ASICs may lift all scrypt coin boats, that is not really the case having large ones target a coin changes the dynmics, some smaller coins will be hurt, especially those in the startup phase as we are. It can centralize the network quickly as the coin is strip mined, with rapid difficulty increase, then dropped. The more mature ones will benefit. I think if the larger scale asics were six months out, I would say sticking to scrypt is fine. Again, as people have correctly observed, it's not the individuals with ASICs, it is the the large farms  from the manufacturers, and they are now 2-3 months out. This changes the dynamics significantly.
4. KGW is a defense against multipools, not ASICs.
5. The last part is important, this represents an opportunity to build a broader community by those now looking to leave scrypt coins and continue mining, small time miners who often are more apt to support a coin they can believe in, then dump a coin for a quick profit. It will also mean that at a key time our coin will be welcoming to newcomers. This broad community is critical for helping to fulfill our mission, at least I believe that, as they may be interested in giving a little extra projects because they believe in the mission. They may also be the ones who convince vendors, tell their friends, bring things up to the press, create things on their own, and open the doors to partnerships. A large ASIC farm is not going to care when we want to fill a funding target through a fundraiser which we may have been short with during the funding round. They will not want to create things involving the coin.  The reality of cryptocurrency, is they are more community based organisms then anything else. We are in our infancy there. We have the people in place to create this community, but the technology can easily cut that off. Because the smaller miners and newcomers, will be turned off because we are still scrypt, rightly or wrongly. Building a broad base is critical for our success, ASIC farms are not. Without a dispersed community, you really do not have much of a market for people to use this as a currency.
6. In terms of power savings, I can say where there may be no effeciency gain if it's optimized. At the same time the ease of use element is probably the biggest gain from X11.

Again, I am seeing this as somebody who literally is more interested in keeping this coin alive, meeting it's mission, then seeing it dead. While there will always be farms, ASIC or GPU, and people who dump for profit, early in a coins lifecycle it needs to build community. We may not get the chance to build this community if we stick to scrypt. Largely because those smaller miners that provide a broad base are going to be avoiding scrypt coins. We have an opportunity to open the door to the wider community by switching, I don't think it should be wasted. Building an economy around this coin means having more people around and a low barrier to entry early on. Not creating a massive barrier early in it's lifecycle.

Again these are my personal opinions.

[Timespace]

Okay here is the deal. Cryptocurrency is a new thing. There is a solid argument for saying this new thing is more powerful the more decentralized it is. More security, less chance at 51% attack and more power in the hands of the masses who wish to get into the game or capitalize on this new opportunity. Capitalism is all fine and dandy in my world. It makes the world tick better than just about any other way at this point. Crony capitalism where a few take over is not good. That is a pitfall of capitalism. Amongst all the good is the fact that capitalism breeds predators and sometimes they get too big. The ASIC manufactures are likely playing a rigged game. No pun intended. I have no problem with them making a profit, but outright stealing money from people to "test" units for months and profit insanely from that is hurting the foundation of cryptocurrency. The fact that devs can change some code and thwart this is the power of cryptocurrency. There is nothing wrong with entertaining the idea that these ASIC manufacturers have manipulated the market too much and thus need to be kept in check.

@praxiscat Amen!

[akaSam]

What's with all the sockpuppets?

also +1 @praxis

[Timespace]

I know that promotion for the coin is a very important part, but why does the dev try to ignore the technical part of the coin??
KnCminer just upgrades the Titan miner from 100Mhs to 250Mhs. You know what that means for scrypt coins?

In next 2 months, the most of us, normal / small miners who supported the coin from the start will be leaved and raped by just one Titan miner. Who will still support this coin at that time?? You think the profit miner who purchase those monsters will support the coin by mining it even if it is no longer profitable Huh

I still want to support this coin and still holding my 50k EMC2, but I don't think I can continue for long. To be honest I'm pretty sad that nobody in this thread cares about this.

The devs are doing something about this! Don't be discouraged. They are testing x11 on testnet and evaluating all options before moving forward with their game changer. This is all written in the pages of this forum. They are opening up debate again just to get a feel for what the community wants. There is no doubt that there is strong support for quick change in this matter and it is definitely on the plate right now.

[praxiscat]

I know that promotion for the coin is a very important part, but why does the dev try to ignore the technical part of the coin??
KnCminer just upgrades the Titan miner from 100Mhs to 250Mhs. You know what that means for scrypt coins?

In next 2 months, the most of us, normal / small miners who supported the coin from the start will be leaved and raped by just one Titan miner. Who will still support this coin at that time?? You think the profit miner who purchase those monsters will support the coin by mining it even if it is no longer profitable Huh

I still want to support this coin and still holding my 50k EMC2, but I don't think I can continue for long. To be honest I'm pretty sad that nobody in this thread cares about this.

The devs are not ignoring the technical part of the coin. Taking they are spending significant amount of time looking at and testing right now to explore that possibility. As stated prevously this is being extensively discussed within the foundation and the option is being explored. Plus I think you posted this before, and got the same response. My reply also remains the same, switching the algorithm if it does happen is not an overnight task. It will take our developers time to impliment, and would be a one time thing if it does happen. Patience and realism are necessary.

I don't know why people are posting the same thing twice for the life of me.

[Timespace]

What's with all the sockpuppets?

also +1 @praxis

The times are changing and they know a few people will glance at their fuzzy mouth and say, "yeah, that makes sense." And even if it is just one, it's one more pocket to put their hand in.

[jjj0923]

I know that promotion for the coin is a very important part, but why does the dev try to ignore the technical part of the coin??
KnCminer just upgrades the Titan miner from 100Mhs to 250Mhs. You know what that means for scrypt coins?

In next 2 months, the most of us, normal / small miners who supported the coin from the start will be leaved and raped by just one Titan miner. Who will still support this coin at that time?? You think the profit miner who purchase those monsters will support the coin by mining it even if it is no longer profitable Huh

I still want to support this coin and still holding my 50k EMC2, but I don't think I can continue for long. To be honest I'm pretty sad that nobody in this thread cares about this.

well - perhaps you can look for a 10 fold increase in the value of the coins as they increase in value as the large miners mine coins faster and faster making them harder to get.

[DoiX]

Btw. can you please disable the top wordpress-bar for non-admin/legitimate users (which are only registered for the votings) at the foundation website.

@functions.php

Code:

if(!current_user_can('manage_options')) 
{
    add_filter('show_admin_bar', '__return_false');
}

Fixed, thank you! For some reason testing the site under a normal user account slipped my mind

[jjj0923]

Okay here is the deal. Cryptocurrency is a new thing. There is a solid argument for saying this new thing is more powerful the more decentralized it is. More security, less chance at 51% attack and more power in the hands of the masses who wish to get into the game or capitalize on this new opportunity. Capitalism is all fine and dandy in my world. It makes the world tick better than just about any other way at this point. Crony capitalism where a few take over is not good. That is a pitfall of capitalism. Amongst all the good is the fact that capitalism breeds predators and sometimes they get too big. The ASIC manufactures are likely playing a rigged game. No pun intended. I have no problem with them making a profit, but outright stealing money from people to "test" units for months and profit insanely from that is hurting the foundation of cryptocurrency. The fact that devs can change some code and thwart this is the power of cryptocurrency. There is nothing wrong with entertaining the idea that these ASIC manufacturers have manipulated the market too much and thus need to be kept in check.

@praxiscat Amen!

perhaps impose Mh/s limits on any one single worker?

[einsteinium]

Nice to see bounties being put in place here. Where are you guys getting the funds tho? Your own personal stash? Good leadership

With all due respect. Please stop reposting posts as your own. This comment you made is word for word what a close member of the EMC2 community just posted a few pages back. Please STOP!

[duola9527]

Those paper wallets look amazing! Looks like a good team and community here who are very active and report issues for others to know and beware of.

[Mikers]

well - perhaps you can look for a 10 fold increase in the value of the coins as they increase in value as the large miners mine coins faster and faster making them harder to get.

look at new(ish) sha256 coins. they were mined with asics from the beginning. did they increase in value because of it? not really. some of them had their moment of glory, due to pumps, but they were dumped just the same. personally, at this point of time, I'm not sure that asic farms will bring more value to EMC2 then a lot of individual small miners.

[Cryptosapiens]

A little fuel:
We looked up the code and were able to see that the current 'power savings' are just temporary as the algo itself is very bad in shape so its not properly configured which leads to less work for the card. So if its 'optimized' ( which is something bad in this case :-) ) in the future that energy saving 'feature' will fall apart but the hashrate will rise because of optimiziation.
Furthermore all algos used in x11 are optimized for ASICs :-)

So its possible that X11 is a "Trojan Torse"?, trying to trick us with energy saving and ASIC resistant talk, when in reality its just a poor optimized algo?
And in the near future after a widespread adoption its true colours will show up? Like a super duper X11 ASIC miner?
Is the ASIC industry trying to manipulate us?  

[Timespace]

@jjj0923 Okay seriously? You aren't making much sense, and even so this isn't a discussion about what you think it is. We are talking about the future of EMC2. It isn't about litecoin and scrypt ASICs. I think it is safe to say the consensus is EMC2 would not like to run the risk of keeping scrypt at this time. If you know of a better algo or of a solid reason why this consensus should not hold, then speak up. Spouting off about how I don't like an "ism" or why cake is a lie or coming up with random points that are off topic do not help this discussion. It would be better if you described how light works. At least that is science based. I see your LTC Rabbit tag. I'd be on a mission to keep scrypt in every coin just so that I can profit madly too. Good luck to you.

[etoque]

A little fuel:
We looked up the code and were able to see that the current 'power savings' are just temporary as the algo itself is very bad in shape so its not properly configured which leads to less work for the card. So if its 'optimized' ( which is something bad in this case :-) ) in the future that energy saving 'feature' will fall apart but the hashrate will rise because of optimiziation.
Furthermore all algos used in x11 are optimized for ASICs :-)

So its possible that X11 is a "Trojan Torse"?, trying to trick us with energy saving and ASIC resistant talk, when in reality its just a poor optimized algo?
And in the near future after a widespread adoption its true colours will show up? Like a super duper X11 ASIC miner?
Is the ASIC industry trying to manipulate us?  

The Idea is just to keep asic far away for some month to gain volume

[derbrause]

A little fuel:
We looked up the code and were able to see that the current 'power savings' are just temporary as the algo itself is very bad in shape so its not properly configured which leads to less work for the card. So if its 'optimized' ( which is something bad in this case :-) ) in the future that energy saving 'feature' will fall apart but the hashrate will rise because of optimiziation.
Furthermore all algos used in x11 are optimized for ASICs :-)

So its possible that X11 is a "Trojan Torse"?, trying to trick us with energy saving and ASIC resistant talk, when in reality its just a poor optimized algo?
And in the near future after a widespread adoption its true colours will show up? Like a super duper X11 ASIC miner?
Is the ASIC industry trying to manipulate us?  

Woah woah woah ... take off your foilhat .. i only said that this 'optimization' is more or less a lucky circumstance by poor algo design :-).. nothing more