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[Wipeout2097]

There is indeed FUD in this thread, but it's better to create FUD on a coin and put away some potential investors, than leave people holding bags.

After such a long discussion and unless I missed something, being a scam or not is still dependent on TRUST, on a anonymous person's "say-so", which will not suffer punishment for scamming. "You'll just have to trust me" ...

Considering the abundant # of scams and losses in the crypto-currency scene (at least the alts) that damages people's livelihoods and compromises the future, I actually support the OP's stance on this. If his agenda and of his supporters (respected members of the Bitcoin community) is actually attacking ALL alts that may have potential to credibly compete with Bitcoin, then I have to say it's short-sighted.

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[toknormal]

It is still dependent on TRUST on a anonymous person's "say-so", which will not suffer punishment for scamming. "You'll just have to trust me" ...

Politely pointing that fact out is a long way away from categorically stating that it is a "blatant scam".

So far, the project has been very professionally planned and executed. It has been about as transparent as it's possible to be without relying on a whole load of counterparties and loosing control of the thing.

It isn't the developer's problem that the valuation went into orbit before stabilising at a more reasonable level - in fact he's on record as stating that it was not necessarily desirable and became 'overheated'. People investing in cryptocurrencies expose themselves to massive risk whatever coin they are buying.

Contrary to what you suggest, helpful advice is not what's being offered in this thread, rather out and out mindless propaganda. Funny how its appearance coincides with an 70% valuation loss of the coin. Maybe I should start one called "SOURED AURORA BAGHOLDERS THROW TOYS OUT OF PRAM".

If would have about as much basis in fact as this one has 

________________________________________
Warning: Low flying bagholder teddy bears

[s1gs3gv]

To be honest about it, a scam in the hand is worth 2 in the bush.
All the altcoin haters in the bitcoin community need to hold up a mirror and have a hard look. It is bitcoin scams that are in the news every day, not altcoins.

The pot is calling the kettle black LOL

~~XCB~~

[markm]

The auroracoin website does not seem to even provide the most basic important information such as how the blockchain is secured or is to be secured.

That information can tell you right away in some cases of a scam because for example if they use scrypt it is for sure a scam, scrypt being the least secure of all hashing methods, even litecoin didn't manage to secure their chain with enough hashing power, as DOGE demonstrated by conjuring up enough hashing power almost overight that it could have blown litecoin away. Litecoin was lucky that particular stupid meme was only conjuring up hashing power for yet another "me too" coin rather than conjuring it up for the purpose of attacking litecoin. DOGE showed how much hashing power just a stupid meme can conjure up, thus setting a bar for how much hashing power it would take for an scrypt coin to even defend against an attack by means of stupid meme let alone a serious attack. So basically anyone who throws together a coin using scrypt is ab initio a scammer since they are ab initio trying to scam people into investing into a coin that cannot be secured. Oh unless, that is, they first build enough hashing farms to exceed the hashing power of litecoin/DOGE so they can actually have some indication they might afterall be able to secure their blockchain...

-MarkM-

[toknormal]

3) No plan in place for the  logistical impossibility of an "air drop"

The whole basis of this project is the relative logistical "ease" with which this can be acheived.

Try reading the thread before you troll.

[LTEX]

So after all of this even the supporters admit,

1) 50% Premine with no escrow and dev unwilling to use one
2) Anonymous developer, could be anywhere in the world
3) No plan in place for the  logistical impossibility of an "air drop"
4) Absolutely no way to verify actual "air drop" disbursement.
5) The air drop makes a perfect cover for the dev and crew to use the premine at will.


Can any one else the high probability of a scam forming here?


~BCX~

I'm slowly beginning to think you must be somewhat impaired in a communicational sense. I will sum up some of my decent and respectful answers you have asked me to give. After that I will leave it up to your brilliance because mine somehow seems to be unable to sync with yours:

1. 50% pre mine is part of the essence of the coin and it's prophecy. The fact (which you called the only real question) that Balduro has not used or will use an escrow has been answered by me in this thread and you havent even responded to it!:

Ok respectfully I will try;

Who could take up this responsibility? A board member with an alias that sounds like he is from a computergame, stating in his profile he is a 6 year old girl? No off course not! It needs to be a respectful member of real life society, one that is publicly known and has very much to lose if he fucks up.

Even if we could find such a person stupid enough to take that burden, it also gives the banks and government the possibility to seize the funds and kill the project. Same reason he can't reveil his identity (yet). The whole idea is to take that control away from them!

2. Also this has been answered by me, same quote above! You like to act as if you are a big bitcoin man, carieing lots. Would you be willing to share with the rest of the wordl how many you have (proven) and where you live? Let alone the dev of this coin that faces a serious threat from banks (who have been known for wacking people for less)

3. Also this has been widely explained on many occasions. The plan is there and it most certainly is not impossible. Again, it is not wise just yet to fully disclose all details because several security measures to withhold early attempts from hackers (like you, so to say) are being still implemented.

4. This is actually pretty easy, because all transactions from the pre mined wallets can be verified and linked to the actual receiver. You'll see!

5. This could be the case if you think there is a plan where the airdrop might be misused, but haven't you stated in your third point no such plan exists?

I will remain willing to provide you all with decent answers, but in return I ask you to seriously and decently form educated questions instead if randomly placed summaries of assumptions (see my earlier post on that).


Cheers, LTEX

[s1gs3gv]

The auroracoin website does not seem to even provide the most basic important information such as how the blockchain is secured or is to be secured.

That information can tell you right away in some cases of a scam because for example if they use scrypt it is for sure a scam, scrypt being the least secure of all hashing methods, even litecoin didn't manage to secure their chain with enough hashing power, as DOGE demonstrated by conjuring up enough hashing power almost overight that it could have blown litecoin away. Litecoin was lucky that particular stupid meme was only conjuring up hashing power for yet another "me too" coin rather than conjuring it up for the purpose of attacking litecoin. DOGE showed how much hashing power just a stupid meme can conjure up, thus setting a bar for how much hashing power it would take for an scrypt coin to even defend against an attack by means of stupid meme let alone a serious attack. So basically anyone who throws together a coin using scrypt is ab initio a scammer since they are ab initio trying to scam people into investing into a coin that cannot be secured. Oh unless, that is, they first build enough hashing farms to exceed the hashing power of litecoin/DOGE so they can actually have some indication they might afterall be able to secure their blockchain...

-MarkM-

A security analysis of a crypto-coin system must include not only the security of the block chain but the security of the network and infrastructure.
By this measure (infrastructure security) people have lost more bitcoins than all the altcoins combined

Isn't it irresponsible to launch a coin as significant as bitcoin without secure infrastructure ?

Again: this thread is The Pot is Calling the Kettle Black.

[LTEX]

@LTEX


Yes the transactions can be attributed to individual wallets from the premine to the air drop wallets, I have never disputed that. That's actually a requirement for this illusion to work. The only thing that has to be answered is how does anyone know that a portion of those "Air Drop" wallets don't belong to the dev?

Anonymous developer who won't answer questions - Check
No verified location - check
Huge Premine - Check
3-4 die hard socks supporters that worship developer - Check
Very high potential for scam - check


I swear to god this is starting to look like a Realsolid operation.  


~BCX~

Ok, you still don't seem to get it, I guess I'll let it go...

I do see a nice similarity between you and Balduro though. Both say to have a plan that works, but neither of the two of you is willing to personally come foreward and explain in exact detail how they are going to do it!

So unless you are willing to disclose in full how you are going to exploit your KGW threat, I suggest we both leave this bullshit and wait to see what happens ;-)




[/quote]

[escrow.ms]

It is bitcoin scams that are in the news every day, not altcoins.

Well no hard feelings but, Altcoins are like groceries, while bitcoin is gold.
Now think yourself, which robbery will be in news.

[s1gs3gv]

It is bitcoin scams that are in the news every day, not altcoins.

Well no hard feelings but, Altcoins are like groceries, while bitcoin is gold.
Now think yourself, which robbery will be in news.

With respect, your gold is looking just a little tarnished these days.

Who would rationally contest, and on what basis, the assertion that losses to bitcoin holders thru infrastructure insecurity (and yes, this includes the exchanges) are orders of magnitude larger than any in the altcoin world ?

[ZeroBarrier]

I swear to god this is starting to look like a Realsolid operation.  


~BCX~

Fools and their money...

It's quite incredible how people fall for even the most obvious of scams. The anonymous dev has some of these users eating out of his palm and liking his feet clean.

Here's something for the muppet supporters to thinks about (and I want you to think about it really hard); how will the dev prove that even 10% of the Icelandic population even received a single AUR? And no, don't tell me that by the amount of active wallet addresses. A wallet address proves nothing; it doesn't prove an Icelander is the owner of that wallet address.

The fact that the Air Drop is going to be gradual gives the dev and a small crew the perfect cover to dump AUR at their leisure 31 coins at a time from address to address without anyone knowing who is dumping. Couple of random addresses dump anywhere between 0 and 20 to give the illusion that some people are holding; and you have the perfect cover right there.

The only way I can see something like AUR working as "intended" (and I'm using that word lightly since I believe it's intent is being an outright scam) is if the Icelandic government or another trusted Icelandic body with trustworthy credibility was in charge of the pre-mine and the Airdrop. It would also have to be covered by credible media outlets reporting directly from Iceland (no, not some blogger, I mean camera crews in people's homes showing the Air Drop being recieved).

Only then would this plan be credible; but then you run into problem #2. Who the fuck wants to give strangers their money for absolutely nothing in return? You want a charity? Then create a charity, find supporters and call it a fucking day. It's one thing to donate to a charity from your cryptocurrency, but it's a completely different thing to create a cryptocurrency which it's sole purpose is to bail-out a whole country riding on the backs of everyone else's money.

[markm]

It is bitcoin scams that are in the news every day, not altcoins.

Well no hard feelings but, Altcoins are like groceries, while bitcoin is gold.
Now think yourself, which robbery will be in news.

With respect, your gold is looking just a little tarnished these days.

Who would rationally contest, and on what basis, the assertion that losses to bitcoin holders thru infrastructure insecurity (and yes, this includes the exchanges) are orders of magnitude larger than any in the altcoin world ?

Losses thru such crap in the fiat world are even larger.

Of course larger fortunes lead to larger losses.

Steal billions of grains of sand and how big a loss to anyone is that?

Steal billions of barrels of oil though and gee the losses hurt more.

Larger hoards / larger markets lead to larger targets which lead to larger losses.

If altcoins suddently were each and all worth billions of dollars per coin while bitcoin remaiend at less than $1000 per coin the losses in altcoins would exceed the losses in bitcoins.

The percentage though of individials or of individual transactions or of individual online services might be more revealing.

Overall though the mere fact that only idiots throw away good wealth on garbage altcoins probably tends to mean garbage altcoins lose more people money - thankfully though probably less money per loss though.

-MarkM-

[Azeh]

Anyone else notice a trend with this BCX douchebag. 

After starting numerous threads bashing AUR it is quite obvious he has some sort of hidden agenda.

Hmmm...Trying to stir up a shitstorm and crash the market to buy up cheap coin before the airdrop?  Definitely a more likely scenario than the "I'm just a benevolent hacker, trying to save everyone from a scam "

And tell me this you moron, how the fuck are you helping anybody by trying to destroy the coin.  You would be achieving the same result as the developer "IF" it were a scam.  The only difference is that you would stand to benefit. 

So come clean about your true agenda or fuck off.




 

[s1gs3gv]

It is bitcoin scams that are in the news every day, not altcoins.

Well no hard feelings but, Altcoins are like groceries, while bitcoin is gold.
Now think yourself, which robbery will be in news.

With respect, your gold is looking just a little tarnished these days.

Who would rationally contest, and on what basis, the assertion that losses to bitcoin holders thru infrastructure insecurity (and yes, this includes the exchanges) are orders of magnitude larger than any in the altcoin world ?

Losses thru such crap in the fiat world are even larger.

Of course larger fortunes lead to larger losses.

Steal billions of grains of sand and how big a loss to anyone is that?

Steal billions of barrels of oil though and gee the losses hurt more.

Larger hoards / larger markets lead to larger targets which lead to larger losses.

If altcoins suddently were each and all worth billions of dollars per coin while bitcoin remaiend at less than $1000 per coin the losses in altcoins would exceed the losses in bitcoins.

The percentage though of individials or of individual transactions or of individual online services might be more revealing.

Overall though the mere fact that only idiots throw away good wealth on garbage altcoins probably tends to mean garbage altcoins lose more people money - thankfully though probably less money per loss though.

-MarkM-

So what is your point ? Other than slinging some mud at altcoins ?

[lphelps]

look! the scam is growing in value today... that's not supposed to happen!!!

BCX.... Go Fuck Yourself Sideways!!!

[ZeroBarrier]

Anyone else notice a trend with this BCX douchebag. 

After starting numerous threads bashing AUR it is quite obvious he has some sort of hidden agenda.

Hmmm...Trying to stir up a shitstorm and crash the market to buy up cheap coin before the airdrop?  Definitely a more likely scenario than the "I'm just a benevolent hacker, trying to save everyone from a scam "

And tell me this you moron, how the fuck are you helping anybody by trying to destroy the coin.  You would be achieving the same result as the developer "IF" it were a scam.  The only difference is that you would stand to benefit. 

So come clean about your true agenda or fuck off.

You can't possibly be saying that the dev deserves to profit from the scam since he's the one who came up with the scam, right? I mean seriously, how daft are you? Nobody want to buy AUR just to lose their money, which is exactly what has already happened and will happen again when suddenly the market gets and extra 1.5 million coins be it by dev dump Air Drop scam or by a real Air Drop to Icelanders.

Since no one, not even the dev can prove this coin to not be a scam and the fact that every single concept of this coin screams "SCAM SCAM SCAM" (why these thing haven't raised red flags with some of you is just fucking amazing BTW); I feel this coin deserves to die, so I truly hope BCX puts this scam coin on it's knees and kills it permanently.

look! the scam is growing in value today... that's not supposed to happen!!!

BCX.... Go Fuck Yourself Sideways!!!

Nobody has said that it won't go up again in value before the air drop. In fact, it'll keep going up and down until right before the air drop starts because you muppets keep pumping and dumping it.

[s1gs3gv]

The only way I can see something like AUR working as "intended" (and I'm using that word lightly since I believe it's intent is being an outright scam) is if the Icelandic government or another trusted Icelandic body with trustworthy credibility was in charge of the pre-mine and the Airdrop. It would also have to be covered by credible media outlets reporting directly from Iceland (no, not some blogger, I mean camera crews in people's homes showing the Air Drop being recieved).

How ironic ! A person participating in a forum dedicated to crypto coins implemented using a p2p decentralized architecture which operates without the need for trust is asserting the need for a central authority as the final arbiter of fact !

ROFL

[ZeroBarrier]

How ironic ! A person participating in a forum dedicated to crypto coins implemented using a p2p decentralized architecture which operates without the need for trust is asserting the need for a central authority as the final arbiter of fact !

ROFL

And I suppose you feel better that the dev and only the dev be the central authority of the distribution of AUR to the 300,000+ residents of Iceland?

But let's move on, since you obviously took that out of context. I said if they were in charge of the Air Drop, I didn't say they be the only one involved in the Air Drop. This would ensure accountability in the distribution of the entire pre-mine to every single resident of Iceland.

But hey, I suppose this is all going way over your heads.

[Azeh]

Anyone else notice a trend with this BCX douchebag. 

After starting numerous threads bashing AUR it is quite obvious he has some sort of hidden agenda.

Hmmm...Trying to stir up a shitstorm and crash the market to buy up cheap coin before the airdrop?  Definitely a more likely scenario than the "I'm just a benevolent hacker, trying to save everyone from a scam "

And tell me this you moron, how the fuck are you helping anybody by trying to destroy the coin.  You would be achieving the same result as the developer "IF" it were a scam.  The only difference is that you would stand to benefit. 

So come clean about your true agenda or fuck off.

You can't possibly be saying that the dev deserves to profit from the scam since he's the one who came up with the scam, right? I mean seriously, how daft are you? Nobody want to buy AUR just to lose their money, which is exactly what has already happened and will happen again when suddenly the market gets and extra 1.5 million coins be it by dev dump Air Drop scam or by a real Air Drop to Icelanders.

Since no one, not even the dev can prove this coin to not be a scam and the fact that every single concept of this coin screams "SCAM SCAM SCAM" (why these thing haven't raised red flags with some of you is just fucking amazing BTW); I feel this coin deserves to die, so I truly hope BCX puts this scam coin on it's knees and kills it permanently.

look! the scam is growing in value today... that's not supposed to happen!!!

BCX.... Go Fuck Yourself Sideways!!!

Nobody has said that it won't go up again in value before the air drop. In fact, it'll keep going up and down until right before the air drop starts because you muppets keep pumping and dumping it.

ZeroBarrier, read my post again.

I'm saying that BCX is committing a logical error.  He states his intentions for attempting to destroy the coin are so that he prevents the developer from dumping the pre-mined coins on the market (preventing the "scam").  By destroying the coin, it will effectively lose all its value.  In both situations, those that hold AUR will lose all their money.

In this case, BCX is doing nothing to help, but is intentionally trying to harm others.

So until he reconciles this fact, he can kindly go fuck himself.  

[markm]

But hey, I suppose this is all going way over your heads.

It is probably not going over their heads, more likely they are profiting from the scam, either by being in on it or by mining it or by pump-and-dumping it or by trading it (aka by profiting from the pump and dump of it) or some combination thereof.

-MarkM-