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[BitcoinEXpress]

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[MrMinerMan]

Exchanges- Exchanges that list these coins are a major problem like Cryptsy.

[CryptoKilla]

The only reason the Aurora dev hasn't dumped his coins is because there is almost zero liquidity as he holds 95% of all AUR in circulation. The supposed $Billion USD market cap was highly inflated by the premine to say the least.

If the dev were truly doing this for the greater good, he would turn over all of the premine to a publicly known and trusted third party. There are several on the forums alone that could and would do it. From what I understand, he won't even consider the idea....which pretty much defines what this coin is.

I read online that an official of Iceland said in response to AUR that if the dev could possibly notify and deliver anything, electronic or physical to every person in Iceland in less than a month that he would be a logistic savant genius and would have an immediate future in Reykjavik. The task of simply notifying the entire population of Iceland and "air dropping" coins in that short time span is near impossible never mind verifying their actual place of residence.


This con is painfully obvious.

1) Build coin
2) Promote fake good will and pump value
3) Use Air Drop as cover to dump premine.
4) Use tens of thousands of pre-deployed "air drop" wallets to launder coins from premine addresses
5) Make several million USD off the bag holders and retire.


If the Aurora coin dev would simply move the entire premine prior to "air drop" into the control of a known publicly trusted escrow, this would changes things across the board. Simply posting the premine addresses does nothing as the laundering will occur during the "air drop".

What say you Baldur the Aurora Coin Developer?


~BCX~

Very interesting thanks!

[WalkerIVIV]

Aurora dev is honour man and what you talk about is bullshit .... think about it ... there 1 bio market cap but trustfully there is only 10 000 BTC inside Aurora .. it´s deeply undervalued ... only thing you have to do is count   If you don´t trust VISIT ICELAND!

[kalus]

you talk about is bullshit .... think about it ...

so the airdrop is happening in less than 18 days:  what mechanism exists to distribute all of the premine coin to 300,000+ residents?  

if the developer cannot fulfill part of the coin's purpose, it is just another shitcoin.    auroracoin happens to be a shitcoin you bought into with a 50% premine.  oops. 

[Canaanite]

BUT
what if you are wrong? what if he do as he says? will you make a public apology for doing everything you can to stop something good from happening?

[kalus]

BUT
what if you are wrong? what if he do as he says?

BUT
what if you are wrong?

BCX is stating these facts that are not in dispute:   inaccurate valuation due to 50% premine, the developer holding >95% of the coins in circulation, no liquidity, the lack of a 3rd party escrow to hold the coins, the massive opportunity to dump during the airdrop, and the lack of a structured strategy to reach 300,000 icelanders with the premined coins.  if you think he's wrong, please provide information that refutes these statements.

will you make a public apology for doing everything you can to stop something good from happening?

You're saying auroracoin can't stand up to criticism?    if you think someone simply offering a differing opinion will "stop something good from happening", the fundamentals of the coin are more fragile than bcx's warning.


This thread is a honeypot for bagholders.

[cryptohunter]

BUT
what if you are wrong? what if he do as he says? will you make a public apology for doing everything you can to stop something good from happening?

The thing is even if he is wrong the entire premise of that coin is insane. Nobody here is going to be the willing bag holder simply to donate millions of dollars to strangers. By the time the air drop happens anyone holding aurora then has balls of pure steel. Either the icelanders get nothing, or people here see their BTC vanish... there are really only 2 viable outcomes.  The tiny volume that has been pumped to high value is a speck really compared to what will hit the market after air drop. You will need a ton of btc coming in then or kiss aurora back to a few cents. Who is going to put BTC in at that point? You may as well send BTC directly to them from your own pocket,.... you first.

[LTEX]

BUT
what if you are wrong? what if he do as he says?

BUT
what if you are wrong?

BCX is stating these facts that are not in dispute:   inaccurate valuation due to 50% premine, the developer holding >95% of the coins in circulation, no liquidity, the lack of a 3rd party escrow to hold the coins, the massive opportunity to dump during the airdrop, and the lack of a structured strategy to reach 300,000 icelanders with the premined coins.  if you think he's wrong, please provide information that refutes these statements.

will you make a public apology for doing everything you can to stop something good from happening?

You're saying auroracoin can't stand up to criticism?    if you think someone simply offering a differing opinion will "stop something good from happening", the fundamentals of the coin are more fragile than bcx's warning.


This thread is a honeypot for bagholders.

Where do you get the Idea that BCX is "stating facts that are not in dispute" ?

For one, they ARE in dispute by many. But also what facts did I overlook that you seem to have read? All I see is presumptions, also known as "the mother of all fuckups" !!!

[xtreme1280]

What is there to dispute

1) Dev holds 90% of coins under his control
2) Market cap inflated by counting pre-mine
3) No escrow exist for pre-mine, dev unwilling to consider escrow.
4) Pre-mine can be dumped by dev at will
5) Air Drop will launder pre-mine to be spent on exchanges
6) No plan in place to do the impossible of contacting all residents of Iceland in two weeks




~BCX~

This man speaks the truth.  Anyone thinking otherwise is either a bag holder or delusional.

[kalus]

Where do you get the Idea that BCX is "stating facts that are not in dispute" ?

All of the facts listed are from the fucking auroracoin website and thread.

we know there was a 50% premine.  that's on the website.

we know the dev holds the coins.  that's on the blockchain.

we know there is no escrow:  the blockchain has 21 wallets with the 50% premine coins, and no escrow was discussed by the dev.

we know there' s nothing to stop the developer from dumping coins.  There is nothing to stop the developer from using the Air Drop to cover a dump.

we know there's no infrastructure or strategy in place to distribute coins to 300,000+ icelanders, and no comprehensive plan was provided by the dev.

how do you dispute facts that the developer has plainly stated?

For one, they ARE in dispute by many.

This is a problem.  If you do not read the thread, and the website put up by the developer, or even worse, you are disputing the developers' own words and investing on what you think the coin should be,  you're fucked and you don't know it yet.  

It's extraordinary that people spend so little time and effort to research an investment before sinking money into a coin like this.  

It's crazy that it's written on the auroracoin website and announce thread, and you dispute the developer's own statements.

[LTEX]

Where do you get the Idea that BCX is "stating facts that are not in dispute" ?

All of the facts listed are from the fucking auroracoin website and thread.

we know there was a 50% premine.  that's on the website.

we know the dev holds the coins.  that's on the blockchain.

we know there is no escrow:  the blockchain has 21 wallets with the 50% premine coins, and no escrow was discussed by the dev.

we know there' s nothing to stop the developer from dumping coins.  There is nothing to stop the developer from using the Air Drop to cover a dump.

we know there's no infrastructure or strategy in place to distribute coins to 300,000+ icelanders, and no comprehensive plan was provided by the dev.

how do you dispute facts that the developer has plainly stated?

For one, they ARE in dispute by many.

This is a problem.  If you do not read the thread, and the website put up by the developer, or even worse, you are disputing the developers' own words and investing on what you think the coin should be,  you're fucked and you don't know it yet.  

It's extraordinary that people spend so little time and effort to research an investment before sinking money into a coin like this.  

It's crazy that it's written on the auroracoin website and announce thread, and you dispute the developer's own statements.

Thanks for your elaboration. I still have to disagree with you.

Many of the facts as you describe them are correct. The way BCX has described them however were very suggestive to say the least.

1) Build coin
2) Promote fake good will and pump value
3) Use Air Drop as cover to dump premine.
4) Use tens of thousands of pre-deployed "air drop" wallets to launder coins from premine addresses
5) Make several million USD off the bag holders and retire.

To get back to your list:

1. 50% premine: True and for a good reason
2. Dev holds coins in premined wallets: True and for obvious and detailed reasons
3. No escrow accounts: True and to me that could be an issue, but I explain shortly why it's not anymore
4. There is nothing to stop Dev from dumping: True, but he won't get far and again I have my reasons not to doubt this
5. No comprehensive plan: True, if you havent been doing your homework

So far we agree on a lot. There is another thing a agree on as well and that is that "It's extraordinary that people spend so little time and effort to research an investment before sinking money into a coin like this" as well as people who chose to bash against things for the same reason.

If you had done your research, you must have figured out by now that there is a serious group in this community that is putting in a lot of effort to create and control the initiative that has been brought to us by the dev. And I happen to be one of them, just read the posts.

One of the reasons I have no doubt anymore is the absolute devoted and serious insights this dev has (and I know from direct contact). Also there is my firm believe that if we take action upon this initiative ourselves (which is exactly what the dev wants) we can be in control.

Just take some time to investigate all the ins and outs and try to imagine what you could do to contribute.

[kalus]

Thanks for your elaboration. I still have to disagree with you.

Many of the facts as you describe them are correct.

And that's all we have to agree upon.  being optimistic or pessimistic about this coin is up for debate.  

However, the facts we do agree upon show the fundamentals of the coin are fucked, and the way the developer is handling the deployment and distribution of the coin to icelanders (i.e. the major fucking reason why the coin is supposedly valued) is fucked too.

You must have figured out by now that there is a serious group in this community that is putting in a lot of effort to create and control the initiative that has been brought to us by the dev.

Even though you claim to have a 'serious group', you have less than 18 days to determine how you will contact 300,000+ people and provide them with wallet software and coins.  

No matter how enthusiastic the community, if the valuation is based on 95% of the coins OUT of circulation, the valuation is not real.

No matter how enthusiastic the community, the developer still holds those coins out of escrow, and free to do with as he wishes.

No matter how enthusiastic the community, there is nothing to stop the developer from dumping coins as he wishes, whenever he wishes.

you cannot create a group reality distortion field powerful enough to overcome these major flaws in the fundamental design of this coin.

And I happen to be one of them, just read the posts.

that's the point:  i'm not into debating your ideology.  You've clearly drank the auroracoin koolaid.  despite the fact you agree how i describe the coin as "correct", you ignore all of these fundamental flaws and instead deflect the discussion about your "serious group in this community".  

Just take some time to investigate all the ins and outs and try to imagine what you could do to contribute.

my contribution is to warn people about the flaws in auroracoin. i don't care about the number of coins in your wallet, your affiliation, or your group.  i'm making sure more people don't waste their energy.  

to look at it another way, the developer is taking advantage of the free labour provided by your 'serious group in this community'.  you're doing all the promotion, evangelism, and responding to all these criticisms without being paid.  Your group is working hard not for icelanders as you claim, but to make the developer rich.  that's perhaps the saddest case of all.  

[LTEX]

To get back to your list:

1. 50% premine: True and for a good reason
2. Dev holds coins in premined wallets: True and for obvious and detailed reasons
3. No escrow accounts: True and to me that could be an issue, but I explain shortly why it's not anymore
4. There is nothing to stop Dev from dumping: True, but he won't get far and again I have my reasons not to doubt this
5. No comprehensive plan: True, if you havent been doing your homework

So far we agree on a lot. There is another thing a agree on as well and that is that "It's extraordinary that people spend so little time and effort to research an investment before sinking money into a coin like this" as well as people who chose to bash against things for the same reason.

If you had done your research, you must have figured out by now that there is a serious group in this community that is putting in a lot of effort to create and control the initiative that has been brought to us by the dev. And I happen to be one of them, just read the posts.

One of the reasons I have no doubt anymore is the absolute devoted and serious insights this dev has (and I know from direct contact). Also there is my firm believe that if we take action upon this initiative ourselves (which is exactly what the dev wants) we can be in control.

Just take some time to investigate all the ins and outs and try to imagine what you could do to contribute.

I must compliment you on your double speak. You addressed absolutely nothing.

1. I'm sure there is a really good reason, to amass a huge store of coins.
2. No disputing that the dev holds the coins alone, that's one of the huge issues.
3.You fail to explain why no escrow is not an issue, it's a huge issue and means only one thing. The dev retains 100% control.
4. You are correct, the dev would not get very far prior to "air drop" but would be 100% success post air drop.
5. There is no comprehensive plan and I have done my home work, extensively, that's why I have the issues I do.


So explain this one item and everything will be good.

Q) Why won't the dev remove himself completely from the premine and the airdrop?

There's only one reason he wont.

What you're doing is pissing on our collective legs and telling us it's raining.


~BCX~

Ok, I see how this works now. You only reply to the things you think you can overthrow and completely ignore the justifiable statements you can't. That is unfortunately not the way I work.

But I can ask you one question. If you are so sure the dev needs to remove himself from the airdrop, who do you think is more capable or trustworthy to take op his spot, You maybe? And how are we going to be sure it will al work out then? Theres always two ways to look at things. My perspective tells me he is staying on board to get the job done. At least now I know what has been done and is to come (you don't have to believe me, as long as I do myself).

And don't get me wrong. I won't deny the fact that some people are very sceptic and I think it's noble that you try to warn future bag holders if that is what you believe. But as well as I respect that, I hope you will respect the opposite as well and try to be a bit less suggestive.

That's all

[iampingu]

Ok, I see how this works now. You only reply to the things you think you can overthrow and completely ignore the justifiable statements you can't. That is unfortunately not the way I work.

But I can ask you one question. If you are so sure the dev needs to remove himself from the airdrop, who do you think is more capable or trustworthy to take op his spot, You maybe? And how are we going to be sure it will al work out then? Theres always two ways to look at things. My perspective tells me he is staying on board to get the job done. At least now I know what has been done and is to come (you don't have to believe me, as long as I do myself).

And don't get me wrong. I won't deny the fact that some people are very sceptic and I think it's noble that you try to warn future bag holders if that is what you believe. But as well as I respect that, I hope you will respect the opposite as well and try to be a bit less suggestive.

That's all

2) I am sure he is staying onboard to get the job done.?[/i]

Job done meaning drop the payload of premine onto multiple exchanges to make himself wealthy enough to buy iceland?

[dailyarsenal]

@BCX, I completely agree. total scam coin. This coin needs to be DEAD!

[rikkejohn]

I called this scam out at the beginning. Even if the Dev had good intentions it would fail. But the fact that he played the Icelandic banking crisis card showed what he was about. Anyone that knows Iceland knows that it has remained one of the wealthiest countries based on GDP in the world. The standard of living of in Iceland is high. You give a person from Iceland $50 and he will think of it as pocket change.

[kalus]

If it was to the benefit of Iceland, then the coin developer shouldn't be based in Panama.  Interesting most of the auroracoin website is in english:  that tells you who the coin was designed for.  

Here's a thread in the auroracoin subreddit looking at cryptocurrencies from an icelander's point of view:

Now....the Airdrop.

Doing it based on social security ID(kennitala) numbers alone would prove to be unreliable and rife for exploitation. So we can pretty much rule that one out.

We have a system that would be perfect for this called island.is. This will not be distributed via that system because it's operated by the goverment so that option is out.

I heard that someone mentioned some sort of electronic ID issued by the state. I'm fairly certain that the only thing that resembles that would be the passport we're given and there is no way we'd be using that for verification.

http://www.reddit.com/r/auroracoin/comments/1zsx0o/im_icelandic_and_ive_got_a_few_thoughts_about/

anybody who has the quaint notion you're doing a favour for the poor icelanders by supporting this coin:  they dont' want the fucking auroracoin, and there's still no fucking plan to distribute this coin. 

profits will go the development team who wrote such a seductive story people invested in a coin with a 50% premine. 

[illodin]

From what I understand, he won't even consider the idea....which pretty much defines what this coin is.

What led you to this understanding, links?

I read online that an official of Iceland said in response to AUR that if the dev could possibly notify and deliver anything, electronic or physical to every person in Iceland in less than a month that he would be a logistic savant genius and would have an immediate future in Reykjavik.

Link?

The task of simply notifying the entire population of Iceland and "air dropping" coins in that short time span is near impossible never mind verifying their actual place of residence.

Where did you get the idea the dev should "notify the entire population" or that the air drop must happen within a "short time span"? Read: http://auroracoin.org/blueprint.php

1) Build coin
2) Promote fake good will and pump value
3) Use Air Drop as cover to dump premine.
4) Use tens of thousands of pre-deployed "air drop" wallets to launder coins from premine addresses
5) Make several million USD off the bag holders and retire.

Jealous much you didn't think of this first?

If the Aurora coin dev would simply move the entire premine prior to "air drop" into the control of a known publicly trusted escrow, this would changes things across the board. Simply posting the premine addresses does nothing as the laundering will occur during the "air drop".

And how would this change the situation at all? The steps 3) to 5) could be executed just the same if the funds were in an escrow until the airdrop. Unless you're suggesting someone else would take on the huge responsibility and workload of executing the airdrop fully - you just simply can't find anyone who would do that.


There is risk in every investment, and the risk of the scam happening has already been priced in by the market.

[Bimmerhead]

The only reason the Aurora dev hasn't dumped his coins is because there is almost zero liquidity as he holds 95% of all AUR in circulation. The supposed $Billion USD market cap was highly inflated by the premine to say the least.

So if he can't dump his coins now and make off like a bandit when the float is low and the price is high, how is he going to make any money after the airdrop?

Where is all the liquidity suddenly going to come from?  Are you planning on providing it?