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Author Topic: Massive abuse in the Russian section.  (Read 3978 times)
Veleor
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January 19, 2019, 01:13:55 AM
 #161

I suppose that the root of the problem is the vast majority of Bitcointalk users are hanging out in local boards only and they know little (or don't know at all) what the trust system is intended for.

In my opinion, members need to get out of their local sections more often, communicate with experienced users and follow the discussions on the forum.
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January 19, 2019, 01:36:49 AM
 #162

You got the answer. It was mistakenly posted in the wrong thread:
Yes, I have just read it. Peloso probably doesn't know it is the same forum. Oh, well, I can go to bed now.
I suppose that the root of the problem is the vast majority of Bitcointalk users are hanging out in local boards only and they know little (or don't know at all) what the trust system is intended for.
In my opinion, members need to get out of their local sections more often, communicate with experienced users and follow the discussions on the forum.
Go there and explain them that trust system is not "like" system.

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January 19, 2019, 01:46:16 AM
Last edit: January 19, 2019, 01:56:58 AM by peloso
 #163


I have nightmares, dreaming ~ ~ ~ ~. Sometimes in colors.
Tell me and I won't have nightmares.

hey!  Shocked go to sleep and relax Cool i not wish you dreams ~

@peloso do you have evidence of my scams, or is that just a lie?


i sleeped and have a dream you are scammer ( i not remember details) anyway you are scammer
may be you have some proof im wrong? can you proven you not scammer? i sure no
so relax your ass and not buthurt please Wink
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January 19, 2019, 02:10:02 AM
 #164

i sleeped and have a dream you are scammer ( i not remember details) anyway you are scammer
may be you have some proof im wrong? can you proven you not scammer? i sure no
so relax your ass and not buthurt please Wink
Acceptable.
We will now use your system of beliefs.

I may be a scammer, but I dreamt that the word "scammer" actually means deity. Bow down, cretin!

If evidence is not necessary for claims to be valid, then we shall make any claim we choose.

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January 19, 2019, 02:41:52 AM
 #165

Go there and explain them that trust system is not "like" system.

Those who try to understand already know it:
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.msg49293624#msg49293624
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.msg49274368#msg49274368

Therefore I believe the conflict will be settled through a constructive dialogue after a while.
Lauda
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January 19, 2019, 06:31:19 AM
 #166

Go there and explain them that trust system is not "like" system.
Those who try to understand already know it:
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5096402.msg49293624#msg49293624
- https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5095156.msg49274368#msg49274368

Therefore I believe the conflict will be settled through a constructive dialogue after a while.
Nothing will be settled until they actually stop abusing the system and/or acting childish in response to criticism IMO.

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Veleor
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January 19, 2019, 07:29:10 AM
 #167

Nothing will be settled until they actually stop abusing the system and/or acting childish in response to criticism IMO.

In my opinion experienced users should lead by example and to show a willingness to compromise.
Many members (not only in mentioned section) aren't taking "Trust settings" with due seriousness and they need gently explain that such behavior can harm the forum community.

Theymos foresaw this situation and wrote that it is better to settle the conflict instead to engage in constant disputes.

I still discourage retaliatory ratings, and with these changes I encourage people to try to "bury the hatchet" and de-escalate rather than trying to use any increased retaliatory power you now have.
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January 19, 2019, 10:08:33 AM
Last edit: January 19, 2019, 10:46:31 AM by madnessteat
 #168

This war is like schizophrenia. Nothing can be proven, it's unprovable. Any of us can send merit for the post we like. Any one of us can trust whoever he wants. We are all different people and have the right to think individually. This war, we only destroy the helpful forum users. In fact, the DT system does not protect users, but only arranges war.

Did we come to the bitcointalk for this?



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DabLjat
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January 19, 2019, 10:39:59 AM
 #169

This war is like schizophrenia. Nothing can be proven, it's unprovable. Any of us can send merit for the post we like. Any one of us can trust whoever he wants. We are all different people and have the right to think individually. This war, we only destroy the helpful forum users. In fact, the DT system does not protect users, but only arranges war.

Did we come to the bitcointalk for this?

They just enjoy their impunity and think they can do anything. Let's see what happens when for the majority of Russian users of the forum, their profiles will look like:



In the "Russian black list" will be made all the accounts seen in the genocide of Russian on the forum!

Lauda
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January 19, 2019, 10:56:57 AM
 #170

Nothing will be settled until they actually stop abusing the system and/or acting childish in response to criticism IMO.
In my opinion experienced users should lead by example and to show a willingness to compromise.
Who exactly are the experienced users that should lead by example in the Russian section? The two moderators that can't even speak up but would rather side up with their own "people" even when they are in the wrong? TheFuzzStone who is preaching anti-DT propaganda (as a former DT1 member) and is playing games with his own list out of spite?

Many members (not only in mentioned section) aren't taking "Trust settings" with due seriousness and they need gently explain that such behavior can harm the forum community.

Theymos foresaw this situation and wrote that it is better to settle the conflict instead to engage in constant disputes.
I still discourage retaliatory ratings, and with these changes I encourage people to try to "bury the hatchet" and de-escalate rather than trying to use any increased retaliatory power you now have.
I see two ways out of this: 1) They need to back down from their stupidity/collusion/manipulation and whatever it is that they are trying to do now. 2) All of them get excluded from all levels of DT by a supermajority of DT1 members, essentially leaving maybe 1 legitimate Russian DT2 member.

There are 3 now I believe, with 1 on his way out.

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January 19, 2019, 11:19:35 AM
 #171

I see two ways out of this: 1) They need to back down from their stupidity/collusion/manipulation and whatever it is that they are trying to do now. 2) All of them get excluded from all levels of DT by most DT1 members, essentially leaving maybe 1 legitimate Russian DT2 member.

And I see 1 way out of this situation:

1. We will choose from those who are or create a new user (for example RuTrast).
2. Create a pinned topic in the Russian Newbie section on the importance of changing DefaultTrust to RuTrast
3. Add to the RuTrast Trust list DefaultTrust
4. Add a ~tilde to all who observed in the unreasonable oppression of Russian in the forum.
~TMAN
~Lauda
~owlcatz
~yahoo62278
~actmyname
Maybe someone I missed, but it's never too late to add.
5. Add to the list of all respected and trusted users ru locale.
6. Add to the list is adequate and is not seen in the manipulation of the list of representatives of the DT2.

Once you've destroyed the trust system, we'll create our own.

Lauda
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January 19, 2019, 11:22:34 AM
 #172

2. Create a pinned topic in the Russian Newbie section on the importance of changing DefaultTrust to RuTrast
-snip-
That would be abuse of staff power.  Roll Eyes

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January 19, 2019, 11:24:12 AM
Merited by Foxpup (2), LoyceV (1)
 #173

Any one of us can trust whoever he wants.
Right. You can add anyone you want to your own trust list, and no one is going to stop you from doing that. If you want to add only your friends to your trust list, you are welcome to do so. If you and your friends want to have personal trust lists made up of only the most prolific scammers on the forum, you are welcome to do that too. What you can't expect is for everyone else to sit by and let you and your friends add these scammers to the Default Trust list, and therefore directly cause harm to newbies who do not know any better.

You can have any trust list you want, but if you are going to have a completely irresponsible one, expect to be excluded from DT. It's as simple as that.

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January 19, 2019, 11:24:55 AM
 #174

That would be abuse of staff power.  Roll Eyes

TMAN, you're coming across as a real asshole here. AFAICT, that topic is highly analogous to the English discussions. The main addition is that they're looking to get more local representation in DT1, which is very reasonable. I'd prefer if people not treat trust lists as an election, but if I had wanted nobody to ever think/talk/strategize about how trust lists affect DT1 selection, I would've kept the DT1 criteria secret.

They quickly found a quote from me where I previously documented that usernames starting with tildes are handled:
"If you want to trust someone whose name begins with a tilde, prefix their name with a backslash."   тe ecли вы xoтитe выcкaзaть дoвepиe юзepy ~XXX  в cвoй cпиcoк пpямoгo дoвepия зaпишитe \~XXX, ecли жe вы xoтитe выcкaзaть eмy нeдoвepиe зaпишитe ~\~XXX.
So they knew right away that the ~DefaultTrust account was harmless.

I see nothing concerning with xandry's actions there. Nothing there comes close to warranting deletion. Even if someone was openly talking about trying to form a strategic DT1 manipulation group for the express purpose of undermining the system, such a topic should not be deleted; rather, I'd look to handle this within the DT1 selection criteria.

Let's see Wink

To fight the Nazis is the fate of the Russian people!

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January 19, 2019, 11:39:02 AM
Merited by LoyceV (1), marlboroza (1), o_e_l_e_o (1)
 #175

Let's see what happens when for the majority of Russian users of the forum, their profiles will look like:
I'm guessing we'll see Russians targeted by known scammers whose negative trust is hidden from everyone whose trust lists are built on petty vengeance instead of an actual need to tag scammers, so don't say you weren't warned.

Will pretend to do unspeakable things (while actually eating a taco) for bitcoins: 1K6d1EviQKX3SVKjPYmJGyWBb1avbmCFM4
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January 19, 2019, 11:44:52 AM
 #176

I'm guessing we'll see Russians targeted by known scammers whose negative trust is hidden from everyone whose trust lists are built on petty vengeance instead of an actual need to tag scammers, so don't say you weren't warned.

If you think that Russian fools, it is not so. It is likely we will by default add all users lists DT1 and DT2 trust RuTrust. And eliminate the tilde for the most ardent Nazis!

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January 19, 2019, 11:48:54 AM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #177

If you think that Russian fools, it is not so.
No one said that. Newbies, of any language or country, are commonly targeted by scammers, because they are generally easier to fool than people who have been involved in crypto for years already. If you convince all the Russian newbies to set up custom trust lists that exclude all the best scam busters, then Russian newbies will become the favored target for scammers. It has nothing to do with intelligence.


And eliminate the tilde for the most ardent Nazis!
The users who are the "most ardent Nazis" in your opinion, also happen to be some of the most prolific scam busters on the forum. Exclude them if you wish, and convince the entire Russian section to exclude them if you wish, but be prepared for an influx of scammers.

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January 19, 2019, 11:49:59 AM
Last edit: January 19, 2019, 12:05:17 PM by madnessteat
 #178

~If you want to add only your friends to your trust list, you are welcome to do so.~

Unfortunately I do not have any friends on the forum. And many already consider an enemy, although I didn't do anything wrong. I just added to my DT0 list of people from Russian locale who create useful topics. I didn't even look at their trust.



Update:

I'm not trying to get on the DT1 list. I don't!!! I see infringement of my rights at a forum. A crook can be any nation, though Russian, though English, though French. No one can protect us. Everyone protects himself.

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DabLjat
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January 19, 2019, 12:02:06 PM
Last edit: January 19, 2019, 12:14:19 PM by DabLjat
 #179

The users who are the "most ardent Nazis" in your opinion, also happen to be some of the most prolific scam busters on the forum. Exclude them if you wish, and convince the entire Russian section to exclude them if you wish, but be prepared for an influx of scammers.

I didn't start this war. My list of trust in the election did not include any tiilda of those people who unreasonably painted me. That's personal now. Let them roll back their war - and I'll roll back mine.

We are ready to communicate and cooperate as equals! But Russians never demolished when someone behaves arrogantly in relation to them and considers them as people of the third grade.

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January 19, 2019, 12:18:18 PM
Merited by Foxpup (2)
 #180

There is no war, you are not equal if you don’t understand the system. This isn’t about race or creed this is about protecting members of the forum.

You do not protect people by “electing” your mates, DT is about safety for users, not a flipping “like” when the majority of you understand that we can have a civilised conversation, until that happens I won’t be removing my exclusions or negs. Continue to fight and act like emotional pre schoolers and nothing will change.

Prevention is better than cure.

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