▄▀▄▀▄ Remove Corruption From DT - Union Trust List ▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄

[Deena]

I have never seen anything like this before in Reputation.

Account Deena woke up after 5 months, and from where are all these newbie accounts coming from...

After Lauda got off DT things were quiet and peaceful around here and I was sleeping the sleep of the innocent. Then Theymos decided to shake things up again, rather rudely. That's what woke me up. I had preferred to stay asleep. 

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[gwsukabokepjepang]

I have never seen anything like this before in Reputation.

Account Deena woke up after 5 months, and from where are all these newbie accounts coming from...

After Lauda got off DT things were quiet and peaceful around here and I was sleeping the sleep of the innocent. Then Theymos decided to shake things up again, rather rudely. That's what woke me up. I had preferred to stay asleep. 

the trust system has to be called off!
It's really not good.

[Thule]

Unbeknownst to the lender, the account was sold last week. Is it fair that the new "owner" has all that green trust listed on their account? Does this allow the lender to make an "informed" decision regarding the trustworthiness of the borrower?

Thats called baby sitting what you want to explain with that.You are trying to make the lender sheep like.
You want to protect each dumb lender who isn't able to make his own due dilligance and risk calculation by taking freedom out of the forum ?


@rest Theymos is an awesome guy 

Will post soon a link

[gwsukabokepjepang]

Thats called baby sitting what you want to explain with that.You are trying to make the lender sheep like.
You want to protect each dumb lender who isn't able to make his own due dilligance and risk calculation by taking freedom out of the forum ?

No, it isn't babysitting... it is enabling users to make informed and considered decisions.

If DT were not able to tag an obviously sold/bought account (which is what gwsukabokepjerang is advocating for, they want only "confirmed" buyers/sellers to be able to leave feedback)... how exactly is a "dumb lender" supposed to conduct "due diligence and risk calculation"? How would the "dumb lender" even know that the account was sold?

The obvious flaw in gwsukabokepjerang's argument, is that there is no facility to confirm buyers/sellers on this platform. There is nothing to stop a user from creating 100 alt accounts and leaving themselves 100 positive reviews. How would that let a user conduct due diligence? This place is a discussion board first and foremost... and simply has a "marketplace" board where people can put buy/sell notices. This is not amazon, it is not ebay... yet, that seems to be what they want... BitcointalkBay or something? *shrug*

Anyway, personally, I'm more for tagging bought/sold accounts as "neutral", as opposed to insta-tagging them red... This would then flag the account as bought/sold, so users know that previous trade history and feedback is no longer valid. If users are not checking the complete trust history (trusted AND untrusted) of anyone they conduct business with, then that is their problem. I'm a big fan of personal responsibility... just like "be your own bank"... you need to "be your own security department"!  

If a neutral tagged account then does something stupid like scam or spam for sig etc... then sure, go and tag them red.

see, you don't read my post, i said the trust is implemented after buying and selling.
i have done what i could to prevent VINSIN from scamming more people, but what's the point?

All my posts just get deleted.

[gwsukabokepjepang]

(which is what gwsukabokepjerang is advocating for, they want only "confirmed" buyers/sellers to be able to leave feedback)...

The obvious flaw in gwsukabokepjerang's argument, is that there is no facility to confirm buyers/sellers on this platform. There is nothing to stop a user from creating 100 alt accounts and leaving themselves 100 positive reviews. How would that let a user conduct due diligence? This place is a discussion board first and foremost... and simply has a "marketplace" board where people can put buy/sell notices. This is not amazon, it is not ebay... yet, that seems to be what they want... BitcointalkBay or something? *shrug*

see, you don't read my post, i said the trust is implemented after buying and selling.

No, you didn't read (or you didn't understand) my post... that is exactly what I said you said... you want "only confirmed buyers/sellers to be able to leave feedback". Is that not what you mean when you say "trust is implemented after buying and selling"?

You still haven't addressed the fact that there is NO WAY to be able to do this on the Bitcointalk platform. As I said, this is a discussion board... it isn't geared towards online commerce. The fact that people can arrange trades does not make this a proper eCommerce platform with buyer/seller protection built in. There is a reason why everyone advocates for using trusted escrows. Without it, there is NO protection.

i have done what i could to prevent VINSIN from scamming more people, but what's the point?

Because the trust rating you left is still there... everyone can see your feedback, if they chose to click "untrusted" feedback... and if they have you on their trust list, it'll even show up as "trusted". That's how trust works.

I always check ALL the feedback that a user has... but that's me. If people are too lazy to do that, then that's their problem.

If you have better solution for it, then you can tell the mods too.
I have said that vinsin will scam more people with this system.

[H8bussesNbicycles]

pms coming of supporters adding list but stay private

progress

[Deena]

pms coming of supporters adding list but stay private

progress

Happy to read about that.

This was actually supposed to be a decentralized and democratic forum, however members have become affraid to speak out their opinion openly out of fear of the clique of trust scammers.

[gwsukabokepjepang]

slowly this is a revolution!!!

[cryptohunter]

nutildah- this is another one. he knows they are proven liars and trust abusers but continues to support them
get this snake on the list - disgusting fool pretends to have supported people like bruno in the past but now seems to have defected to want to support proven liars and trust abusers.

Cool, I made another list  

Chill out Super Wario. I already outlined for you my rationale why I added them.

I still support Bruno and I always will.

Since it offended your feelings so much (and was a largely inconsequential move to begin with), I took you off my precious tilde list. But after reading what you wrote about me, I should probably consider re-adding you.

Look don't pretend I did not already say this to your face in meta it's not like I am talking shit about you behind your back. I am not at all happy to see someone who was a keen supporter of bruno who highlighted and fought HUGE SCAMS not these little pesky scammers that just pop back up next day under new accounts. Who now turns to the total dark side and support liars that red trust people for telling the truth about them and who ~ bruno himself I notice.

You can not support proven liars and trust abusers on one hand (whom themselves ~ BRUNO) and support Bruno at the same time.

Anyway do as you wish, I understand it takes a lot of courage to do the right thing.

[H8bussesNbicycles]

List updated


Please update your lists with the new list in the first post

Concerned cult member here.
I really wonder who is behind this.

me
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5103988.0

Someone dumb enough to think that negative votes count.

keeps track of who to vote for and puts ~lauda users on dt1
 
reminds me i should add laudas personal list too in inverse   <- done

[Deena]

I don't care who you're trying to vote out of DT but you have defcon23 in your trust list. He's a known scammer who tried selling people silver plated bars claiming they were .999 silver bars. You are proving Lauda right by having people like him in your trust list.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Lauda is a proven scammer in so many ways; escrow, trust, merit; you name it. And being such a scammer Lauda can never be proven right, exactly because the opposite, his wrong doings, have been proven. Lauda's simply the biggest scammer on this forum and thus has to go first. The rest is small talk.

[H8bussesNbicycles]

I don't care who you're trying to vote out of DT but you have defcon23 in your trust list. He's a known scammer who tried selling people silver plated bars claiming they were .999 silver bars. You are proving Lauda right by having people like him in your trust list.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Lauda is a proven scammer in so many ways; escrow, trust, merit; you name it. And being such a scammer Lauda can never be proven right, exactly because the opposite, his wrong doings, have been proven. Lauda's simply the biggest scammer on this forum and thus has to go first. The rest is small talk.

they act like lauda saves all from crooks we can easily save ourselvs from
lauda does not
lauda only copies the easiest available proofs to look important
lauda is the most dangerous to the average user of this forum to look important
lauda is for all the power and nothing else
lauda will slave all with a whip
others copy to impress lauda
become best thugs to gain rank and lauda protection

casualties in war
lauda has to go
all negative consiquence is worth lauda gone

nutildah- this is another one. he knows they are proven liars and trust abusers but continues to support them
get this snake on the list - disgusting fool pretends to have supported people like bruno in the past but now seems to have defected to want to support proven liars and trust abusers.

Cool, I made another list 

Chill out Super Wario. I already outlined for you my rationale why I added them.

I still support Bruno and I always will.

Since it offended your feelings so much (and was a largely inconsequential move to begin with), I took you off my precious tilde list. But after reading what you wrote about me, I should probably consider re-adding you.

Look don't pretend I did not already say this to your face in meta it's not like I am talking shit about you behind your back. I am not at all happy to see someone who was a keen supporter of bruno who highlighted and fought HUGE SCAMS not these little pesky scammers that just pop back up next day under new accounts. Who now turns to the total dark side and support liars that red trust people for telling the truth about them and who ~ bruno himself I notice.

You can not support proven liars and trust abusers on one hand (whom themselves ~ BRUNO) and support Bruno at the same time.

Anyway do as you wish, I understand it takes a lot of courage to do the right thing.

not just courage
it takes suicide to do the right thing

[gwsukabokepjepang]

lets throw off these clowns!

vote against them!!!

[BitcoinSupremo]

You can't win against abusers and by the way very few persons on DT are not trust abusers , this is a well known fact since 2016. I think you can spend your time more wisely rather than dealing with trust abusers. Just my two cents as a victim of trust abuse.

[cryptohunter]

You can't win against abusers and by the way very few persons on DT are not trust abusers , this is a well known fact since 2016. I think you can spend your time more wisely rather than dealing with trust abusers. Just my two cents as a victim of trust abuse.

We can certainly win. Never give up.

As the number of abused increases then a union can be formed.

We can push for an entire change of the system that permits and even enforces this abuse of honest members.


1. find the threads they post in.
2. present only on topic and relevant facts demonstrating their untrustworthy natures and provide evidence to invalidate their future abuse of others.

There are going to be more abused than abusers.

This must continue until the system itself is altered and criteria given that eliminates this subjective and selfishly motivated abuse of honest members.

This is just the start. Abusers will not stop abusing until it is taken out of their control.

We must be careful of .

1. real scammers and untrustworthy must never join our union and that we NEVER defend their actions.
2. we stick only to presentation of facts and observable events that are relevant and on topic.
3. We do not just think of ourselves. We will not permit abuse of any honest person here. We will speak up and defend this abuse where it is clear abuse is taking place.
4. Not giving up or giving into to their  threats and gang tactics.

This union should have one clear mandate.

Ensure that the same fair and honest treatment is applied to ALL members of this board.

[Thule]

Please add Timelord2067 to the abuse list.
He is making false tagging and also refuses to delete it instead is giving addiotional negative trust by simply copy past of old negative trust of other people

[H8bussesNbicycles]

You can't win against abusers and by the way very few persons on DT are not trust abusers , this is a well known fact since 2016. I think you can spend your time more wisely rather than dealing with trust abusers. Just my two cents as a victim of trust abuse.

we are winning against the abusers
have made many votes
you can help if you add this list yourself too @BitcoinSupremo
your defeatist attitude with no vote will lose
VOTE


pms keep rolling in
more list adders every day and updaters
new dt1 any day now
vote while you still can for this month

[cryptohunter]

Long post but perhaps worth a read for anyone feeling they too are victims of trust abuse and that it is quite astounding how others seems to sanction it here even the admin.


For this entire system to work as theymos wants it to work he made a fatal error with the 250 earned merits. Therefore handing total control from his own seemingly fair hands into the hands of a gang of quite ruthless and blatantly untrustworthy members that have demonstrated in the past in black and white what they really are.


This has allowed the proven cyclers (whom I believe are mostly dishonest ratbags anyway for cycling it and now further backed up by the fact nobody on DT1 will even look at the evidence of a lie and admit it is indeed a lie, I mean that is evident many times when I have challenged or asked them in public to review the evidence with me- can they not see how blatantly broken that makes DT look) to gain the immediate control of both merit and trust.

Theymos originally proposed 100 earned merit which was a sensible amount because as I have clearly illustrated once you remove the top 0.13% of the boards self awarded merits many lose around 60-90% of their earned merits and only a handful would have 250 making it very very centralised, and actually centralised to the same group that you can see are very "gang" like on every thread if one of them gets challenged. We could all name them here with ease. They are riddled in each others bpip fans and recipients and all include exclude in a gang on the DT lists.

You have to wonder who pushed him to the 250 earned merits and why he even considered it and did not (if he wanted to tighten it up a bit ) add in some kind of activity threshold. WTF is merit to do with trust is another debate anyway. Some of these DT have been here 5 mins compared to years and years of history if he had put an activity threshold and lowered the earned (cycled merits). This again seems illogical. Since having years of activity to review vs 5 mins is like an obvious blunder.

Anyway forget DT - merit is the key here. Without 2 members having 250 earned merits DT is a no go unless we can ask theymos to explain in public whom pushed him to 250 earned merits and why he believes that does not centralise it to the same group that observably gang up and are guilty of lying, trust abuse and other proven shady devious acts.

Theymos to me is not dirty or corrupt ( i mean what does he gain ..he just wants a nicely functioning forum right) but he takes almost a machine approach to things - lauda is possibly net useful (i don't agree) so he allows the proven collateral damage lauda causes along the way for the possibly greater good.

 For me that is a mistake because negative events that are viewed as completely unfair and unjust by the victims cause huge energies of negativity much much more even than people who get scammed by a shit Ico they likely knew was huge risk to start with. People will not accept moral judgements (often immoral) from someone whom is proven a liar and very shrouded in dirty deeds himself.  That will just create an atmosphere of double standards and unfairness that will rage on and on.

Failing that we need to locate merit sources that are fair and are also annoyed at the double standards and blatant dishonest of the DT1 clan. Point them toward posts that are made by fair and honest individuals that are worthy of merit.


Right now the only method to stop them is as I have previously suggested above. Whenever possible (ie on topic and relevant) present the facts of their untrustworthy ways and provable lies at them. Eventually it will spoil their party here. People whom are proven liars do not get to call other people liars without presenting evidence. People whom are proven sock puppet racist trolls sig spammers simply do not get to lecture to people for financially motivated posting without that fact being presented. Sorry that double standards dirt is not going to wash. Imagine jeffrey dahmer in his prime years telling you how evil you are and you need red trust for not being a vegetarian.


The risk is of course is  more red tags (they can give them at this time for presenting facts demonstrating their own wrongdoing with no comeback) and even a ban if they pressure mods and theymos enough with the complaints about being factually reminded on topic that they are scum bags FOR REAL. 

Of course you more than likely have many friends that can join and voice their new facts that you were banned for presenting on topic and relevant facts and observable events that demonstrated untrustworthy behaviour.  Then again what is a lost account or 2 in the fight for freedom of speech and freedom from these trust abusers and their supporters and will give more ammunition for the corruption argument.

Also I know it is frustrating to see such injustice towards honest members like ourselves that have done many great things for this community in the past .... however I am now approaching the task of getting these scumbags off DT or at the very least crushing their abilities to abuse other persons unanswered with a less aggressive style. I think it works better and allows them less opportunity to cast off facts and observable events as the fabrications or inventions of a raging aggressive member who needs to be avoided even if they do have facts of abuse to present.

Sorry for the long post but it is something for us to consider if we are really serious about bringing about a fairer system here.

[TheNewAnon135246]

You can't win against abusers and by the way very few persons on DT are not trust abusers , this is a well known fact since 2016. I think you can spend your time more wisely rather than dealing with trust abusers. Just my two cents as a victim of trust abuse.

we are winning against the abusers
have made many votes
you can help if you add this list yourself too @BitcoinSupremo
your defeatist attitude with no vote will lose
VOTE


pms keep rolling in
more list adders every day and updaters
new dt1 any day now
vote while you still can for this month

The army grows!

[Deena]

Theymos to me is not dirty or corrupt

To me he is. All the trust system and merit system designs were and are constructed to keep the scamming clique on top a the hierarchical ladder, even at the cost of the on this forum well cherised decentralisation. He's not a total idiot, is he? He can see the faul games that are being played on this forum. He's fully aware of it, no doubt. And he supports it to the full! He's got no principles and no integrity. Sad but true.