2020 Democrats

[Spendulus]

....
Lol, the Ivanka comment. I'm expecting another term for Trump and for him to move the court further to the right -- or to cement the fact that the court is going to have a conservative balance for the next 20 or so years.

Come on guys, you can't be so conservative (or right) to the point of thinking conservative thinkers are moderates.

....

Supreme Court seems to kind of beat their own drum up there, more than being decisively "conservative or liberal."

A better way to ask it might be something like "Is this an independent thinker, or someone who will always follow orders like a puppet, when the political master calls."

The latter is a serious problem, and is part of the process of downfall of nations.

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[TECSHARE]

Come on guys, you can't be so conservative (or right) to the point of thinking conservative thinkers are moderates.

Why exactly? It is a fact. 20 years ago I was considered a liberal. Today some people call me a right wing Nazi for moderate stances. The Overton Window has been shifted so far left by extremists, it is a fact a large portion of conservatives are simply moderates.

[squatz1]

Come on guys, you can't be so conservative (or right) to the point of thinking conservative thinkers are moderates.

Why exactly? It is a fact. 20 years ago I was considered a liberal. Today some people call me a right wing Nazi for moderate stances. The Overton Window has been shifted so far left by extremists, it is a fact a large portion of conservatives are simply moderates.

I understand that things have changed, yes, but these thinkers are now deemed Republican and Conservative and that's what people are going to refer to them as. If liberal people with similiar thoughts to RBG was appointed and confirmed to the court, we would say that the court is moving towards the left.

Unsure on what your argument really is here. I feel like this is an argument for just the sake of arguing.

[TECSHARE]

I understand that things have changed, yes, but these thinkers are now deemed Republican and Conservative and that's what people are going to refer to them as. If liberal people with similiar thoughts to RBG was appointed and confirmed to the court, we would say that the court is moving towards the left.

Unsure on what your argument really is here. I feel like this is an argument for just the sake of arguing.

I am very sorry you don't understand the meaning of The Overton Window, and how an extremist left would make moderates appear more conservative in comparison.

[TwitchySeal]

I understand that things have changed, yes, but these thinkers are now deemed Republican and Conservative and that's what people are going to refer to them as. If liberal people with similiar thoughts to RBG was appointed and confirmed to the court, we would say that the court is moving towards the left.

Unsure on what your argument really is here. I feel like this is an argument for just the sake of arguing.

I am very sorry you don't understand the meaning of The Overton Window, and how an extremist left would make moderates appear more conservative in comparison.

What do you expect to gain from passive aggressively insulting squatz' intelligence?

[Spendulus]

....

I understand that things have changed, yes, but these thinkers are now deemed Republican and Conservative and that's what people are going to refer to them as. If liberal people with similiar thoughts to RBG was appointed and confirmed to the court, we would say that the court is moving towards the left.
....

I don't think you can lay it out that easily.

First of all, "The Left" has moved to a lunatic fringe of where it was ten years ago.

Second, "The Right" in many respects is not "Conservative", not in the least.

But of course that's just me talking, reflecting on the shitshow of Kavanaugh.

[TECSHARE]

What do you expect to gain from passive aggressively insulting squatz' intelligence?

No argument against the point? Topic slide to tone policing.

[nutildah]

What do you expect to gain from passive aggressively insulting squatz' intelligence?

I honestly think he's getting back at his father, who must have done a real number on him. But it's a step up from commissioning 12 year olds to draw cartoons of people he doesn't like with their dicks out and goats next to them.

[Spendulus]

What do you expect to gain from passive aggressively insulting squatz' intelligence?

I honestly think he's getting back at his father, who must have done a real number on him. But it's a step up from commissioning 12 year olds to draw cartoons of people he doesn't like with their dicks out and goats next to them.

There may be many goats in the closets...

[squatz1]

I understand that things have changed, yes, but these thinkers are now deemed Republican and Conservative and that's what people are going to refer to them as. If liberal people with similiar thoughts to RBG was appointed and confirmed to the court, we would say that the court is moving towards the left.

Unsure on what your argument really is here. I feel like this is an argument for just the sake of arguing.

I am very sorry you don't understand the meaning of The Overton Window, and how an extremist left would make moderates appear more conservative in comparison.

Just to start, I identify myself as a conservative.

Wouldn't that go the same way if Conservatives were going farther and farther to the right? The people on the left would look more moderate. You're literally arguing based on your own viewpoint, that's it. I would assume that Twitchy and Flying Hellfish would both sit here and argue that the people on the left are moderate while the people on the right are bat shit crazy.

[TECSHARE]

Just to start, I identify myself as a conservative.

Wouldn't that go the same way if Conservatives were going farther and farther to the right? The people on the left would look more moderate. You're literally arguing based on your own viewpoint, that's it. I would assume that Twitchy and Flying Hellfish would both sit here and argue that the people on the left are moderate while the people on the right are bat shit crazy.

Good for you. Yes it would go the same way, and last time that was the case I identified as a liberal. That isn't the case now and hasn't been for some time. You are mistaking straying from the median as a form of relativism, that is not my premise at all. I presented you the evidence, I suggest you review the Pew stats.

[Spendulus]

I understand that things have changed, yes, but these thinkers are now deemed Republican and Conservative and that's what people are going to refer to them as. If liberal people with similiar thoughts to RBG was appointed and confirmed to the court, we would say that the court is moving towards the left.

Unsure on what your argument really is here. I feel like this is an argument for just the sake of arguing.

I am very sorry you don't understand the meaning of The Overton Window, and how an extremist left would make moderates appear more conservative in comparison.

Just to start, I identify myself as a conservative.

Wouldn't that go the same way if Conservatives were going farther and farther to the right? The people on the left would look more moderate. You're literally arguing based on your own viewpoint, that's it. I would assume that Twitchy and Flying Hellfish would both sit here and argue that the people on the left are moderate while the people on the right are bat shit crazy.

I'm not trying to gang up with Tech to hammer you on this, it just happens that I don't agree with the casting of the argument as a "Left leaning or Right leaning" court.

What's Roberts?

It seems to me that the "Middle" would simply be to make decisions according to the constitution and the history of interpretations.

Then you would have Left who would simply pursue ideological progressive concepts, really not caring about what the constitution said. And you'd have Right, conceivably who would also not care about what the constitution said.

But the latter, it does not exist. The "Right" is always those who attempt to just follow the constitution.

I see this as a framing of the argument, let's say by progressive media and progressive politicians, to attempt to make any decisions other that those they favor as "far Right."

Now then, people are suckered into the pre existing framing of the argument. A decent question is have you (everyone) been duped? Next you'll be trying to argue that Kavanaugh was a right wing extremist rapist, that Flynn was a convicted felon and a treason, that Trump is an agent of Putin.

Clearly all these dangerous menaces of "far right Extremists" must be not allowed to walk and talk freely.

So what is is? Is "far Right" simply anything that's different than what these perverted Leftish Authoritarian Control Freaks figure at the moment is the party line?

[Gyfts]

Here are the betting odds average by RCP for the 2020 democratic nominee: https://www.realclearpolitics.com/elections/betting_odds/democratic_2020_nomination/

There's been nearly a 10 point shift over roughly the last 4 weeks away from Joe Biden. Surprisingly enough, the points swing favor towards Hillary Clinton. She has over a 10% chance at the nominee according to an average of betting markets this late into the primary process with every democratic candidate conceding to Biden.

Are democrats actually considering swapping out Joe Biden for another candidate? Current polling shows him up in multiple swing states by 3-4 points but this is with hardly any negative media coverage and Biden not making many public speaking appearances.

[TECSHARE]

[suchmoon]

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KLYE was not available?

[Gyfts]

Are democrats actually considering swapping out Joe Biden for another candidate?

Oh god, I hope not. Hillary had her chance, she blew it. People who lay money down on things like this, for the most part, aren't retarded, and the contrarians are factoring in certain elements I can only speculate upon. But I would say the 84% for Biden seems pretty accurate. The only other option I would consider betting on would be "Other". Betting on Hillary seems like a wasted dollar, but what do I know.

Hillary Clinton coming out of center left field to the surprise of liberals and conservatives. I think everybody wants her to go away but for some reason she just won't.

[squatz1]

Are democrats actually considering swapping out Joe Biden for another candidate?

Oh god, I hope not. Hillary had her chance, she blew it. People who lay money down on things like this, for the most part, aren't retarded, and the contrarians are factoring in certain elements I can only speculate upon. But I would say the 84% for Biden seems pretty accurate. The only other option I would consider betting on would be "Other". Betting on Hillary seems like a wasted dollar, but what do I know.

Highly doubt they're going to do something like that, and I doubt that Biden would willingly step away and that's really the only way to be able to do this without a civil war in the democrat party. I know I've said it time and time again, and its still true -- Biden doesn't have energetic supporters backing him -- but replacing Biden at this stage (yes, even before the convention) is going to kill the party and make it look CRAZILY fixed.

Even if Clinton had the backing of the Democrat party, with fundraising and such, she did still win the vote totals and the amount of delegates needed to clinch the nomination.

If you brokered convention Biden (not even sure how this would happen) and replace him with a dark horse candidate like Clinton, Bloomberg, etc -- you're going to see the Democratic party go poof VERY quickly.

[TECSHARE]

Highly doubt they're going to do something like that, and I doubt that Biden would willingly step away and that's really the only way to be able to do this without a civil war in the democrat party. I know I've said it time and time again, and its still true -- Biden doesn't have energetic supporters backing him -- but replacing Biden at this stage (yes, even before the convention) is going to kill the party and make it look CRAZILY fixed.

Even if Clinton had the backing of the Democrat party, with fundraising and such, she did still win the vote totals and the amount of delegates needed to clinch the nomination.

If you brokered convention Biden (not even sure how this would happen) and replace him with a dark horse candidate like Clinton, Bloomberg, etc -- you're going to see the Democratic party go poof VERY quickly.

There is no way he is going to be the candidate. He can't go 5 minutes without spacing out, falling asleep, or saying something completely senseless. You think the leaders of the democrat party give a fuck about their image? Have you been watching the last 3 years? The Democrat party is already over, you just haven't figured it out yet. I would put money on either Michelle Obama or Killary taking his spot.

[suchmoon]

I would put money on either Michelle Obama or Killary taking his spot.

How much?

[squatz1]

Highly doubt they're going to do something like that, and I doubt that Biden would willingly step away and that's really the only way to be able to do this without a civil war in the democrat party. I know I've said it time and time again, and its still true -- Biden doesn't have energetic supporters backing him -- but replacing Biden at this stage (yes, even before the convention) is going to kill the party and make it look CRAZILY fixed.

Even if Clinton had the backing of the Democrat party, with fundraising and such, she did still win the vote totals and the amount of delegates needed to clinch the nomination.

If you brokered convention Biden (not even sure how this would happen) and replace him with a dark horse candidate like Clinton, Bloomberg, etc -- you're going to see the Democratic party go poof VERY quickly.

There is no way he is going to be the candidate. He can't go 5 minutes without spacing out, falling asleep, or saying something completely senseless. You think the leaders of the democrat party give a fuck about their image? Have you been watching the last 3 years? The Democrat party is already over, you just haven't figured it out yet. I would put money on either Michelle Obama or Killary taking his spot.

There's no way, in the modern era, to just replace the guy that just the majority of the popular vote and delegate vote in his respective party without inciting some sort of civil war within the party and causing it to fracture.

If he steps aside willingly -- ya know, by saying that he just isn't fit for the office and that the party should do something -- that's one thing. But forcing him out while he is out in the media disputing the claim, isn't going to work. It'll force the 'Obama Democrats' (the moderates) to turn against the party.

I know he's a horrible candidate and I agree with that, but I don't think they can kick him out without hurting themself more.