Gambling as a profession: there's people who live out of gambling?

[deisik]

~ In other words, if you have enough dough, you can run pretty safe martingale strategies. Well, until the casino all of a sudden stop being fair, raises the minimum bet amount, or simply makes bets so agonizingly slow that you lose all interest using these strategies

From my experience, the main problem with martingale strategies is that you are either running it in a safe mode, making less than $0.2 per hour(and still risking to lose like $100 at once), or, if you want to make, say, $5 per hour, and you set your base bet accordingly, you can lose those $100 in a blink of an eye. And yeah, slow bets make the safe mode even less profitable

There's a whole lot of misunderstanding and confusion about martingale

And how it can be employed in an efficient way, both in respect to risk/reward ratio and total profits. More specifically, your approach itself (like making a certain amount of dough) per hour is skewed. With a proper martingale setup you earn through variance. You can wait for it days on end, and when it finally comes, you earn a certain percentage of your capital with one long losing streak ending with a spectacular win

Obviously, you should discard in your mind how much you make per unit of time (as otherwise you won't have enough patience to stick to your strategy) and think exclusively in terms of variance, i.e. how much of it you can survive, how often it should come and how much profit it should bring. Variance is what you should be looking for, not some dust you earn after each winning roll

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[michellee]

For me gambling could be a profession for sure for a lot of people but it was really risky for a lot of people maybe if you have a lot of money or already have a lot of businesses and passive incomes like apartment or restaurant, you already have a source of income that you could use in gambling and have a chance to win as your profession. But surely if your already a professional in gambling you should not reach the point where already gambling all of your money you should always limit your money to gamble.

The risk is not worth for every people because they need to spend time to learn the skills in gambling. They need to have money to learn the lesson, and they must prepare for the lose that always comes to them at any time. Although you already get passive income, it doesn't guarantee you to have a chance to win in gambling because you know that gambling will be related to luck. It will be difficult to be a professional in gambling because that will need time and learning in gambling, and not all people can do that.

[KnightElite]

For me gambling could be a profession for sure for a lot of people but it was really risky for a lot of people maybe if you have a lot of money or already have a lot of businesses and passive incomes like apartment or restaurant, you already have a source of income that you could use in gambling and have a chance to win as your profession. But surely if your already a professional in gambling you should not reach the point where already gambling all of your money you should always limit your money to gamble.

The risk is not worth for every people because they need to spend time to learn the skills in gambling. They need to have money to learn the lesson, and they must prepare for the lose that always comes to them at any time. Although you already get passive income, it doesn't guarantee you to have a chance to win in gambling because you know that gambling will be related to luck. It will be difficult to be a professional in gambling because that will need time and learning in gambling, and not all people can do that.

The first money that I deposited in online gambling site is the money that I can afford to lose which means it is the excess money from my savings. I accepted the risks that I am taking and I know that my money is not safe in there because in gambling there is no assurance of meaning and there is only possibilities. Many people got depressed in gambling because they lose big amount of money in there and they didn't identify the risks that they taking. Their allocation of their funds are also the problem.

[supercanada1]

~ In other words, if you have enough dough, you can run pretty safe martingale strategies. Well, until the casino all of a sudden stop being fair, raises the minimum bet amount, or simply makes bets so agonizingly slow that you lose all interest using these strategies

From my experience, the main problem with martingale strategies is that you are either running it in a safe mode, making less than $0.2 per hour(and still risking to lose like $100 at once), or, if you want to make, say, $5 per hour, and you set your base bet accordingly, you can lose those $100 in a blink of an eye. And yeah, slow bets make the safe mode even less profitable.

Martingale is one of those strategies that bring unbelievable and unexpected pain. It would be much better to not think about any strategy because in the end, it is luck that a gamblers need to hit a win streak.  Doubling your amount after winning wont work for long as the probability of loss with each bet remains same. There is no safe mode here certainly. The right way to gamble is to enjoy bets instead of thinking about bets.

[deisik]

Doubling your amount after winning wont work for long as the probability of loss with each bet remains same. There is no safe mode here certainly. The right way to gamble is to enjoy bets instead of thinking about bets.

It is more about doubling your bet after a loss

Probably, this is what you meant to say. And it actually works quite well provided you can run pretty long losing streaks without busting. If this is the case, you effectively turn the tables in your favor and now, instead of being lucky not to bust, you become unlucky to bust if you bust (there is a subtle difference if you think it through thoroughly)

But casinos are very well aware of this approach, and they typically don't allow you to pull off such a trick by either raising the minimum bet amount, which makes employing martingale an exercise in futility and stupidity, or limiting your bet speed, which makes martingale useless as you can't get enough variance without risking too much

[michellee]

For me gambling could be a profession for sure for a lot of people but it was really risky for a lot of people maybe if you have a lot of money or already have a lot of businesses and passive incomes like apartment or restaurant, you already have a source of income that you could use in gambling and have a chance to win as your profession. But surely if your already a professional in gambling you should not reach the point where already gambling all of your money you should always limit your money to gamble.

The risk is not worth for every people because they need to spend time to learn the skills in gambling. They need to have money to learn the lesson, and they must prepare for the lose that always comes to them at any time. Although you already get passive income, it doesn't guarantee you to have a chance to win in gambling because you know that gambling will be related to luck. It will be difficult to be a professional in gambling because that will need time and learning in gambling, and not all people can do that.

The first money that I deposited in online gambling site is the money that I can afford to lose which means it is the excess money from my savings. I accepted the risks that I am taking and I know that my money is not safe in there because in gambling there is no assurance of meaning and there is only possibilities. Many people got depressed in gambling because they lose big amount of money in there and they didn't identify the risks that they taking. Their allocation of their funds are also the problem.

At least, you do the right way because I see that you use the money which you don't use for anything. I see that many people use that way for the first time, but then they will drag into the deep of gambling, and they can use the money that they want to use for something. And later, they can use more money if they think that their chance to win will be bigger. So they will decide to deposit more and more, but in the end, only a few of them that can win the money.

[Betwrong]

~ In other words, if you have enough dough, you can run pretty safe martingale strategies. Well, until the casino all of a sudden stop being fair, raises the minimum bet amount, or simply makes bets so agonizingly slow that you lose all interest using these strategies

From my experience, the main problem with martingale strategies is that you are either running it in a safe mode, making less than $0.2 per hour(and still risking to lose like $100 at once), or, if you want to make, say, $5 per hour, and you set your base bet accordingly, you can lose those $100 in a blink of an eye. And yeah, slow bets make the safe mode even less profitable

There's a whole lot of misunderstanding and confusion about martingale

And how it can be employed in an efficient way, both in respect to risk/reward ratio and total profits. More specifically, your approach itself (like making a certain amount of dough) per hour is skewed. With a proper martingale setup you earn through variance. You can wait for it days on end, and when it finally comes, you earn a certain percentage of your capital with one long losing streak ending with a spectacular win

Obviously, you should discard in your mind how much you make per unit of time (as otherwise you won't have enough patience to stick to your strategy) and think exclusively in terms of variance, i.e. how much of it you can survive, how often it should come and how much profit it should bring. Variance is what you should be looking for, not some dust you earn after each winning roll

I feel like you are saying something interesting, but I can't completely grasp it. Can you please explain with dice game, as an example, what do you mean by "earning through variance"?

Imo, there are always only two possibilities for a martingale setup:

1. Small risk / small reward

Bankroll: 1 BTC
Base bet: 1 satoshi

You can still bust after 25 losses in a row, but that's highly improbable. So, with this setup you can earn around 3k sats($0.22 currently) per hour. And if you consider the depreciation of your computer in the process, the power consumption, and some other factors, you can conclude that it's probably not worth the hassle.

2. High risk / high reward

Bankroll: 1 BTC
Base bet: 100 satoshi

In this case it'll take just 19 losses in row to bust. Odds of losing 19 bets in a row at 49.5% on a site with 1% house edge: once every 433,974 bets. So even though the reward is pretty high in this case, $22 per hour, it is very likely that you'll bust before earning your first $1,000.

That's how I see it, but I know that it's the simplest way of looking at martingale. So, I'd like to comprehend your view, and that's why I'm asking for a similar explanation of the martingale setup for earning through variance.

[deisik]

~ In other words, if you have enough dough, you can run pretty safe martingale strategies. Well, until the casino all of a sudden stop being fair, raises the minimum bet amount, or simply makes bets so agonizingly slow that you lose all interest using these strategies

From my experience, the main problem with martingale strategies is that you are either running it in a safe mode, making less than $0.2 per hour(and still risking to lose like $100 at once), or, if you want to make, say, $5 per hour, and you set your base bet accordingly, you can lose those $100 in a blink of an eye. And yeah, slow bets make the safe mode even less profitable

There's a whole lot of misunderstanding and confusion about martingale

And how it can be employed in an efficient way, both in respect to risk/reward ratio and total profits. More specifically, your approach itself (like making a certain amount of dough) per hour is skewed. With a proper martingale setup you earn through variance. You can wait for it days on end, and when it finally comes, you earn a certain percentage of your capital with one long losing streak ending with a spectacular win

Obviously, you should discard in your mind how much you make per unit of time (as otherwise you won't have enough patience to stick to your strategy) and think exclusively in terms of variance, i.e. how much of it you can survive, how often it should come and how much profit it should bring. Variance is what you should be looking for, not some dust you earn after each winning roll

I feel like you are saying something interesting, but I can't completely grasp it. Can you please explain with dice game, as an example, what do you mean by "earning through variance"?

Glad you asked

That's how I see it, but I know that it's the simplest way of looking at martingale. So, I'd like to comprehend your view, and that's why I'm asking for a similar explanation of the martingale setup for earning through variance

That's a skewed view (actually two views) on how to run a martingale setup (my way)

Variance here means that you earn only on long losing streaks which don't come too often, and are actually statistical outliers. That's why it is called variance, i.e. variation from the average (the average here being your average losing streak). In layman terms, you are looking for some really long streaks but not long enough to bust you

So you set your increase on loss as well as multiplier pretty high, and start small, the bare minimum. Given fast enough autobet, you wait for an outlier which will come sooner or later and bring you dough, like a couple percent at once. Then you increase your safety margin. Indeed, you may still bust but you must be extremely unlucky to end like that

[TrevorS]

From my own experience I can say that the profession of a gambler is one of the most difficult from a psychological point of view. Professional gamblers are not those people who do nothing and easily earn their money, they are those people who spend a day on the fly working to improve their game. Those people who spend many hours of session working out their strategies. This is an extremely resource-intensive activity for success in which it is necessary to make an effort no less than at the factory. Only these will be mental efforts.  I have several friends of professional gamblers, not one of them considers their work a gift.

[DeathProxy]

I can't really say if there are people who are gamblers by profession but i know there are people who live soley on gambling.  Funds they used from their day to day runnings and activities comes from gambling,  to some extent they are good at what they do, since they know that their livelihood depends on gambling they take out time to study the system of any offline or online casino they use thrn see if they can exploit any loopholes and for quite sometimes now it has been working for them

[finaleshot2016]

From my own experience I can say that the profession of a gambler is one of the most difficult from a psychological point of view. Professional gamblers are not those people who do nothing and easily earn their money, they are those people who spend a day on the fly working to improve their game. Those people who spend many hours of session working out their strategies. This is an extremely resource-intensive activity for success in which it is necessary to make an effort no less than at the factory. Only these will be mental efforts.  I have several friends of professional gamblers, not one of them considers their work a gift.

Well, I agree with that 'cause those people, professional players, are doing their best just to win. There are different kinds of strategies they should remember in every professional game. They can't easily win money 'cause they need to give their best and fight for themselves to earn it. There are many sleepless nights that they have made just to think about a strategy for a single game. Also, there's a pressure on them 'cause your opponent will be also a professional and most of them have their card on their sleeves.

[deisik]

He is talking abut some mathematics here. Calculating the expected value and variance in order to increase the chances of winning. Going through all this trouble to just give oneself some hopes is insane. Gambling is just a game and should be played with the only purpose of fun. Trying to decrease the loss with such strategies ultimately does not work. Never heard of a gambler who managed to hit big amounts with this method

Rather statistics but I don't particularly mind (though I don't calculate the expected value)

Otherwise, I agree that people should be gambling for fun and personal enjoyment only. Wtf, this is what I'm continually saying myself here. And you can't win really big time with this method, I agree with that too. Casinos are not fools in general, and they put limits on how much you can bet (and win, for that matter). But it is not about decreasing the loss as it is more about randomness (provided the bets and their outcomes are genuinely random, of course) and how you use it to your advantage ("turn the tables" as I call it)

[KnightElite]

He is talking abut some mathematics here. Calculating the expected value and variance in order to increase the chances of winning. Going through all this trouble to just give oneself some hopes is insane. Gambling is just a game and should be played with the only purpose of fun. Trying to decrease the loss with such strategies ultimately does not work. Never heard of a gambler who managed to hit big amounts with this method

Rather statistics but I don't particularly mind (though I don't calculate the expected value)

Otherwise, I agree that people should be gambling for fun and personal enjoyment only. Wtf, this is what I'm continually saying myself here. And you can't win really big time with this method, I agree with that too. Casinos are not fools in general, and they put limits on how much you can bet (and win, for that matter). But it is not about decreasing the loss as it is more about randomness (provided the bets and their outcomes are genuinely random, of course) and how you use it to your advantage ("turn the tables" as I call it)

You will be pressured to make money in gambling if you will look it as your only source of income. Treat it as entertainment only because there is pychological benefits to it. Every gamblers should have limitations, they should know when to fold or when to continue.

[LogitechMouse]

I can't really say if there are people who are gamblers by profession but i know there are people who live soley on gambling.  Funds they used from their day to day runnings and activities comes from gambling,  to some extent they are good at what they do, since they know that their livelihood depends on gambling they take out time to study the system of any offline or online casino they use thrn see if they can exploit any loopholes and for quite sometimes now it has been working for them

I don't think too that there are people who are being born to gamble. Sounds funny but if there are then it is destined to them to live for the sake of gambling .

Those professional gamblers can call gambling their profession but aside from gambling, for sure they have other sources of income and they are just gambling for either fun or to take more profit and that is why their are some who doesn't care if they lose on gambling because they have multiple sources of income that can cover their losses.

[quarkfx]

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

[lienfaye]

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Well there are people who make a living through gambling, they treated it as their main source of income. They not rely mostly on luck but by their skills and strategy. This is not easy and only few people can do this and for normal gambler that is having a hard time to win its impossible to earn through gambling only.

[Betwrong]

~
That's a skewed view (actually two views) on how to run a martingale setup (my way)

Variance here means that you earn only on long losing streaks which don't come too often, and are actually statistical outliers. That's why it is called variance, i.e. variation from the average (the average here being your average losing streak). In layman terms, you are looking for some really long streaks but not long enough to bust you

So you set your increase on loss as well as multiplier pretty high, and start small, the bare minimum. Given fast enough autobet, you wait for an outlier which will come sooner or later and bring you dough, like a couple percent at once. Then you increase your safety margin. Indeed, you may still bust but you must be extremely unlucky to end like that

I'm starting to understand your point, but still it's hard without real examples. I mean, the bankroll, the initial bet, the increase on loss, what are they? What do you mean by being "extremely unlucky", 10 losses in a row with 50% win chance, or 20 losses in a row? Because both cases can be called extremely unlucky ones, but there is a huge difference between them. I personally encountered 16 losses/wins in a row, so I know it's possible, but I would call 20 losses in a row with 50% win chance a really unlikely event (it is expected to happen once every 1,048,576 bets on a site with 1% house edge).

[onrise]

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Those people who have extra money and can afford to lose some or can stay without earning for few months can try out this option and just in case if they make some money good for them else they need to find out job or business etc to start back again.

[Golftech]

Gambling as a profession I thought about this too , I some would he must have lot of experience and a lot of money for backup gambling as uncertain results so cant depend on gambling money for living , I know some who do gambling along with other incomes , like trading and gambling or a freelancer and gambling

Those people who have extra money and can afford to lose some or can stay without earning for few months can try out this option and just in case if they make some money good for them else they need to find out job or business etc to start back again.

It's much better to take if you will use spare money, things like this can stress you if you will entrust your entire savings. Once you lose everything will fall a part not even you are good in any types of gambling as shit can happen and miscalculations can hurt your bankroll to deep. People who have regular earnings can mixed gambling and try getting good benefits with their knowledge, it's difficult but can be done with the right system to use.

[deisik]

So you set your increase on loss as well as multiplier pretty high, and start small, the bare minimum. Given fast enough autobet, you wait for an outlier which will come sooner or later and bring you dough, like a couple percent at once. Then you increase your safety margin. Indeed, you may still bust but you must be extremely unlucky to end like that

I'm starting to understand your point, but still it's hard without real examples. I mean, the bankroll, the initial bet, the increase on loss, what are they? What do you mean by being "extremely unlucky", 10 losses in a row with 50% win chance, or 20 losses in a row? Because both cases can be called extremely unlucky ones, but there is a huge difference between them. I personally encountered 16 losses/wins in a row, so I know it's possible, but I would call 20 losses in a row with 50% win chance a really unlikely event (it is expected to happen once every 1,048,576 bets on a site with 1% house edge)

10 and 20 losses in a row on the same multiplier (aka win chance) are not the same (pardon the pun). Hitting 10 losses with a 50% win chance is not something that I would seriously consider "extremely unlucky" as you will likely see it within an hour or, if you are extremely lucky (sorry), in a day at best. Extremely unlucky to me is more like hitting the killing streak in a year or so (given the particular betting speed). Remember, you earn through variance, not by grinding along and collecting dust per hour, per day, or whatever

Within that timeframe, you will see enough outliers to increase your deposit sufficiently (actually, like many times, as this thread clearly proves, unless you hit the max bet limit). That will allow you to survive ever longer and longer losing streaks by changing your autobet settings accordingly in the process (let's call it escape adjustment). Indeed, everything said holds true only if the casino doesn't put piles of roadblocks on your way to success like disabling small bets, limiting bet speed, etc (and remains provably fair or just fair beyond the house edge at all times, of course)

That's technically all you need to know