[Flag] Organized Ethnic Hatred against the Turkish Section, ~Timelord2067

[Vispilio]

Irrelevant! Being on DT means you should have a thicker skin. So what if someone on the internet doesn't like you?
Leave Neutral feedback if you want, that's what it's for.

Want an example? Go read LoyceV - robovac. low worth, low achieving, sig spamming fool. - REAL DEBATE. I've Merited the OP for making a great (but complete BS) post. That's how you handle "fights" on the internet. Why would you even care about unimportant people? Just laugh it off and go on with your life.

I couldn't care less about what an internet troll thinks about me Loyce, but his trolling does have real life financial repercussions.

When we want to manage a bounty, lottery, auction or participate in one in the future for example, the first question that will be asked is "hey why do you have flags or negative trust raised against you, sorry we gotta go with someone else" just to give you one example...

the insane ramblings of a moron should not have this much financial influence, if it does, there is clearly something wrong with the system and it's not working as intended.

You guys probably don't notice how toxic this can be because most of the DT1 core members have known eachother for years and all have glamorous reviews of each other so the slander by a few nasty trolls towards you guys don't matter,

but do you not want any new comers to ever benefit from the activities in BTT, should it remain an exclusive old boys network because of some nasty troll bullshit ?.. I hope you are a little bit more inclusive & open-minded than that.

[suchmoon]

When we want to manage a bounty, lottery, auction or participate in one in the future for example, the first question that will be asked is "hey why do you have flags or negative trust raised against you, sorry we gotta go with someone else" just to give you one example...

Even if that were true, which I doubt since Timelord's flag on you is inactive, your retaliatory flag does nothing to change that.

[wolwoo]

I got off this flag. I hope you don't misjudge us. We're not bad people. I've just been wronged and we're sorry, I'm a little angry. I can get a reaction from my friends, I respect them.

[tmfp]

I couldn't care less about what an internet troll thinks about me

The extreme rhetoric that you have employed in your description of the subject rather contradicts that.

...but his trolling does have real life financial repercussions.
When we want to manage a bounty, lottery, auction or participate in one in the future for example, the first question that will be asked is "hey why do you have flags or negative trust raised against you, sorry we gotta go with someone else"

Are there any active flags or negative trust currently applying to any of the Turkish members due to Timelord's actions?
As Suchmoon points out, even if there were then your flag on him wouldn't alter that.

You seem to be trying to satisfy the financial conditions of your flag

I believe that anyone dealing with Timelord2067 is at a high risk of losing money

by making this claim, as well as by the more general (and emotively charged) one in your original post

If historical events are any guide, I'm reasonably convinced that there is a great correlation between exhibiting irrational hate & persecution towards certain groups and committing financial crimes against them, so I believe the flag against this deeply unstable stalker called Timelord2067 is appropriate from a financial perspective as well.

and I personally don't think you have achieved that, but I won't be "voting" on any of the outstanding flags in this saga as none of them (rightly) stands any chance of success and are best forgotten.

For what my opinion is worth, your extreme reaction to Timelord and his posts may be counter productive for your general credibility, on the basis that it reinforces the view of onlookers that "there's no smoke without fire".
 

[Vispilio]

Even if that were true, which I doubt since Timelord's flag on you is inactive, your retaliatory flag does nothing to change that.

It's not retaliatory, I only found out about the poor and extremely unreliable judgement skills of Timelord2067 after reading his insane babble about me and the Turkish section. I was actually very surprised to find out he made it into legendary rank without being deeply red painted or kicked off the forum much earlier...

I don't want any other innocent person to fall victim to his obsessive endless patterns of toxic false accusations and be dissuaded from taking active part on this forum, thus the flag.
If @theymos makes a new flag type concerning the quality of judgement of a user, I would swap it with that; something like:

"There are multiple reported instances of factual and provably false fallacies in the judgement and reasoning skills of this user; his feedback on others should be taken with great reservation, and people dealing with him should beware his factual incompetence might spill into future financial mistakes as well."

[suchmoon]

If @theymos makes a new flag type concerning the quality of judgement of a user, I would swap it with that; something like:

"There are multiple reported instances of factual and provably false fallacies in the judgement and reasoning skills of this user; his feedback on others should be taken with great reservation, and people dealing with him should beware his factual incompetence might spill into future financial mistakes as well."

There is such a thing - it's called neutral trust feedback and it covers anything you want to say about a person that doesn't fall into positive or negative trust guidelines, or any of the flag types.

[TECSHARE]

This is not what these flags are for. You are free to leave ratings on his profile if you insist, but this is also frowned upon unless the intent is to prevent fraud. This has nothing to do with fraud and is just retribution for a disagreement, righteous or otherwise. You can not use flags like this because it devalues the entire rating system. This is an invalid flag that reflects more poorly on its creator than its target.

[lighpulsar07]

snip thank you for your beautiful speech mr. vispilio /sarcasm...

I don't want to read these dramas. but i think this is necessary to reply on this thread Mr. Vispilio, you are clearly wrong here launching a retaliatory flag against timelord is clearly an abuse that's why suchmoon et. al. opposed your flag against timelord and also, they opposed timelord's flag against you. Trust Flags are made for scammers not for personal vendetta just because you were falsely accused of account farming.

Trust Flags can valid only if the user:

a. scammed/stole money.
b. running a shady service that risks people's money/BTC. (perfect example game-protect's service).
c. who broke a written contract that results of financial damages to contract creator.

I suggest that you should withdraw the flag against timelord's or leave a negative feedback to timelord just to calm your personal vendetta against him (this is why theymos didn't remove feedbacks) and stop attacking DTs for opposing that invalid flag that you created. in that way, you won't turn yourself into self entitled asshole.

[Vispilio]

This is not what these flags are for. You are free to leave ratings on his profile if you insist, but this is also frowned upon unless the intent is to prevent fraud. This has nothing to do with fraud and is just retribution for a disagreement, righteous or otherwise. You can not use flags like this because it devalues the entire rating system. This is an invalid flag that reflects more poorly on its creator than its target.

Funny I don't recall you (or anyone for that matter) making this beautifully virtuous and enlightened comment when Timelord2067 just the other day opened not 1 but 7 abusive flags that "devalue the entire rating system"

How would you suggest I should respond, when there is blatantly obvious double standards and highly selective treatment going on, to the complete detriment of the local section participants of the forum, who have not, as of yet (and also because of lack of interest for the incessant dramas) been very active in meta & reputation...

[LoyceV]

Funny I don't recall you (or anyone for that matter) making this beautifully virtuous and enlightened comment when Timelord2067 just the other day opened not 1 but 7 abusive flags that "devalue the entire rating system"

You were on DT2, that makes all the difference.

One by one, the Supporters of your Flag are dropping off DT, just like theymos wanted:

Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.

Was it worth it? I'd say it's a waste of DT-powers

double standards

DT-members are held to higher standards.

selective treatment

I don't see any DT-members support Timelord2067's Flags:

2019-09-06 Fri 03.18h
source: loyce.club

695 Insufficient support. Timelord2067 flagged Vispilio (type 1, see why). Supported by Timelord2067. Opposed by malevolent, suchmoon, goraset, mhanbostanci, mindrust, Lutpin, marlboroza, Kalemder, wolwoo, AlyattesLydia, teeGUMES, PHI1618, gospodin, Bthd, shasan, Vispilio, El-Cezeri, DragonDance.

696 Insufficient support. Timelord2067 flagged wolwoo (type 1, see why). Supported by Timelord2067. Opposed by suchmoon, goraset, mhanbostanci, mindrust, Lutpin, marlboroza, Kalemder, wolwoo, Matthias9515, AlyattesLydia, teeGUMES, PHI1618, gospodin, Bthd, shasan, ekiller, Vispilio, lighpulsar07, El-Cezeri, DragonDance.

697 Insufficient support. Timelord2067 flagged ekiller (type 1, see why). Supported by Timelord2067. Opposed by EFS, suchmoon, goraset, mhanbostanci, mindrust, Lutpin, marlboroza, Kalemder, wolwoo, Matthias9515, AlyattesLydia, teeGUMES, PHI1618, gospodin, Bthd, shasan, ekiller, Vispilio, El-Cezeri, DragonDance.

698 Insufficient support. Timelord2067 flagged Kalemder (type 1, see why). Supported by Timelord2067. Opposed by suchmoon, goraset, mhanbostanci, mindrust, Lutpin, Kalemder, wolwoo, Matthias9515, AlyattesLydia, teeGUMES, PHI1618, gospodin, Bthd, shasan, ekiller, Vispilio, El-Cezeri, DragonDance.

699 Insufficient support. Timelord2067 flagged gospodin (type 1, see why). Supported by Timelord2067. Opposed by suchmoon, goraset, mhanbostanci, mindrust, Lutpin, marlboroza, Kalemder, wolwoo, Matthias9515, AlyattesLydia, teeGUMES, PHI1618, gospodin, Bthd, shasan, Vispilio, lighpulsar07, El-Cezeri, DragonDance.

700 Insufficient support. Timelord2067 flagged PHI1618 (type 1, see why). Supported by Timelord2067. Opposed by suchmoon, goraset, mhanbostanci, mindrust, Lutpin, Kalemder, wolwoo, Matthias9515, AlyattesLydia, teeGUMES, PHI1618, gospodin, Bthd, shasan, Vispilio, El-Cezeri, DragonDance.

701 Insufficient support. Timelord2067 flagged El-Cezeri (type 1, see why). Supported by Timelord2067. Opposed by suchmoon, mindrust, Lutpin, Kalemder, wolwoo, Matthias9515, AlyattesLydia, teeGUMES, PHI1618, Bthd, shasan, ekiller, Vispilio, El-Cezeri, DragonDance.

The same can't be said about your Flag:

702 Insufficient support. Vispilio flagged Timelord2067 (type 1, see why). Supported by mhanbostanci, Kalemder, bobita, gospodin, ekiller, Vispilio, El-Cezeri, DragonDance. Opposed by Foxpup, malevolent, suchmoon, LoyceV, mindrust, Lutpin, teeGUMES, shasan, DireWolfM14, hacker1001101001, lighpulsar07, rhomelmabini.

See IsTimelord2067onDTyet.tk.

[Vispilio]

One by one, the Supporters of your Flag are dropping off DT, just like theymos wanted:

Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.

Was it worth it? I'd say it's a waste of DT-powers

You are quoting theymos' comments on the far stronger `scammer`flag, I opened a `high-risk` individual flag, you know this LoyceV, why would you introduce a 100% false premise into your argument like that ?..

Anyways I don't think there is any power to be had in these DT dramas. I think it's an empty illusion,
and I really would like this illusion to NOT cast a very real shadow on my legitimate activities on this forum.

You are correct there is considerable support for my flag. There will be far more if we keep going like this as more and more independent people find out there are serious judgement and logical errors in the conduct of some DT1 members. But frankly I couldn't care less.

You and I both know very well, LoyceV, that there are a number of DT1 members as we speak, who are in 100% agreement with the slanderous behavior of timelord2067. I hope you are a consistent enough man to subject them to the same lofty "paragon of virtue" standards that you are expecting from me.

If, despite all of these legitimate points in our favor, the global community still feels strongly that the minor procedural controversy in my "high-risk" individual flag outweighs everything else, I'm very happy to withdraw it, it means nothing to me.

All the Best

[Kalemder]

Racism is a bad business. If you have doubts about people talk to them before. It's not good to slander them. I think that's understood. Let's not waste any more time with these dramas. Thank you to everyone.

I deleted support. I think @Timer he realized that he had made a mistake.

[tmfp]

Racism is a bad business.

I agree with you.
So are accusations like

Organized Ethnic Hatred

There are, undeniably, several nasty weirdos like this in the forum trying to conduct a systematic abuse against all high ranking Turkish members

made in reaction to claims made by one member in flags which attracted no support whatsoever from the wider community.

Let's not waste any more time with these dramas.

+1

[TECSHARE]

This is not what these flags are for. You are free to leave ratings on his profile if you insist, but this is also frowned upon unless the intent is to prevent fraud. This has nothing to do with fraud and is just retribution for a disagreement, righteous or otherwise. You can not use flags like this because it devalues the entire rating system. This is an invalid flag that reflects more poorly on its creator than its target.

Funny I don't recall you (or anyone for that matter) making this beautifully virtuous and enlightened comment when Timelord2067 just the other day opened not 1 but 7 abusive flags that "devalue the entire rating system"

How would you suggest I should respond, when there is blatantly obvious double standards and highly selective treatment going on, to the complete detriment of the local section participants of the forum, who have not, as of yet (and also because of lack of interest for the incessant dramas) been very active in meta & reputation...

I had no knowledge of these flags. Upon review they are also invalid, so I have opposed all of them except for one which seems to be a valid application regardless if it is correct or not. You are both wrong. Timelord2067 is known to be overzealous with his use of the trust system, as a result he is heavily excluded. Unless you drop this flag and stop using the flag system this way, you are destined to join him. Unfortunately drama is an indivisible part of managing the trust system here and it is something you will have to learn to deal with. In the future I would suggest simply starting a thread over the issue and discussing your complaints publicly rather than jumping right to abusing the trust system. If you can argue your point, and you are correct in your assertions, people will generally support you.


EDIT (Re: Vispilio) : I see that you have now withdrawn your flag. Thank you for being reasonable. This is the kind of behavior that gets you more respect from the community when you demonstrate your willingness to cooperate and follow the terms of the system in place. Timelord2067 is known to go too far, and as a result his reputation suffers, there is no reason to join him.

EDIT #2 (Re: Timelord2067 ) : I just noticed this on my trust ratings page -

Timelord2067: "Users, such as your good self, sit back and say nothing when you could in fact have stepped up to the crease/plate and guided my posts. Then, far too late, want to lecture from on high."

This is why no one ever steps up to say shit, because of people like you with the mentality of children who pout when they are told they are wrong and lash out. I am not your babysitter. I have no obligation to look after you or anyone else here. When I have free time I review some of these posts.

Sit back? Really? I have been one of the most, if not the most vocal long time opponent of trust system abuse on this forum to the point of paying continual personal costs in the form of being stalked and abused by the people I have called attention to for their abuse.

I learned a long time ago that your ratings were unreliable and frankly just mostly ignore them. I was satisfied to mind my own business since it seems to be motivated from genuine overzealous mistakes and not a need to abuse other users for retribution, however I think you are changing my mind. Maybe I will decide to be more active in monitoring your activities if that is really what you want. Is that what you want sweet summer child?

P.S. Please just get rid of that childish retaliatory rating. You have every right to leave it if you insist on acting like a child, just don't be surprised when you get treated like a child.

[TECSHARE]

and again...


Timelord2067: "TECSHARE has made a very thinly veiled threat to stalk me unless I remove my *neutral* trust/feedback post (last paragraph and his "PS") in this now archived post:

https://web.archive.org/web/20190908033629/https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5181723.msg52379325 "

Yes, everyone knows threats are often proceeded by "please". Hey cupcake, you are the one who suggested I was responsible for guiding you. You literally suggested I should have been monitoring you. Can you make up your mind what you want or do you just spew words meaninglessly? Have a discussion with me like an adult in the thread instead of shitting up my trust page with your spazz out little boy.

[Vod]

Timelord2067: "TECSHARE has made a very thinly veiled threat to stalk me unless I remove my *neutral* trust/feedback post (last paragraph and his "PS") in this now archived post:

Should be negative, not neutral.  :/

[TECSHARE]

Timelord2067: "TECSHARE has made a very thinly veiled threat to stalk me unless I remove my *neutral* trust/feedback post (last paragraph and his "PS") in this now archived post:

Should be negative, not neutral.  :/

Cool story insane canukistani stalker. Didn't you literally just get done lecturing me about ethics?

[Hhampuz]

Keep your head up Timelord, if you'd go through life without encountering haters you would be doing something wrong. Fuck this noise and look forward .

[xtraelv]

Let me preface this by that I have a lot of Turkish friends and customers.

My dislike and distrust of Timelord2067  is also reasonably well known.

But I have to disagree with reason given for the flag.

I think there is a mis-understanding over the purpose of the flags.
Theymos was quite clear that flags should relate to trade related issues only.

It's the end of Trust Tags Relate to Opinion Conflicts

You should give these ratings for anything which you think would impact someone's willingness to trade with the person, but you should not use trust ratings to attack a person's opinions or otherwise talk about things which would not be relevant to reasonable prospective traders.

Abuse on Flags should be avoided

Creating or supporting a scammer flag is actively affirming a set of pretty clear fact-statements. If someone knowingly supports a flag containing incorrect fact-statements, then that is crystal-clear abuse, and I will seek to have such people removed from DT ASAP. People who are habitually wrong, even not knowingly, should also be removed.

The point is to damage the person's forum existence in order to deter future scamming. This is a very serious action which should have a very high bar.

As I mentioned in the flags topic, there are three very separate scopes for trust which need to be kept separate. For scammer flags, the point is to damage the person's forum existence in order to deter future scamming. This is a very serious action which should have a very high bar. Because it's so serious, I only want actual agreements considered here. In legal systems, there's additionally such a thing as tort law and statutory law, but the forum is very far from having the kind of cohesive legal system which could handle such things in a halfway-reasonable way. The only thing that approaches clear-cut scamming is violation of an agreement. If non-contractual offenses are allowed in the scammer-flag space, then we're going to get factions of forum users constantly fighting each other, which is exactly what I'm trying to stop. I'm sick and tired of big escalations and never-ending feuds over highly-subjective and/or relatively minor things.

For non-agreement issues, use a newbie-warning flag and give them a negative trust rating. These actions are in the different scopes of warning newbies or informing other users of your opinions, which have less severe consequences and therefore lower bars.

I hate having to "defend" BSV and BCH, which were created with deception in mind, are technologically bankrupt, and are run by huge assholes, but you can't say that their supporters broke a contract with you when they didn't. Give them a newbie-warning flag if you want, but not a contract-violation flag unless they actually broke a contract with you. (Note that you might have a case for breach of implied contract if you were actually tricked into buying one of these coins instead of BTC.)

Flags
However repugnant you find someones opinion - flags should not be used for non trading issues.

Trust ratings
Trust ratings (also referred to as tags) - positive, neutral and negative trust is more flexible as to what it covers.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5099391.msg49306851#msg49306851

Trust list
Likewise your trust list can be used to indicate which people you distrust by adding a ~ before their names.

You can find your trust list here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust

[suchmoon]

Vadi2323 is another "racist" getting a neg-trust treatment from our DT1 friend Vispilio:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=trust;u=982288


Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

Granted Vadi2323 is quite a troll but this is uncalled for.