MMA talk - PFL, Bellator, KSW, ONE...

[notblox1]

Who is going to remove those refs if they make a mistake like this?

Ref have their own union, and only one of their bodies can fire them, not bloody Dana White or some other guy like him in other mma organizations.
Then you also have local sport federation that is responsible for this and for rules in events, that means that every region even in United States can have different rules.
Take a look on one video showing craziest referee mistakes in UFC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FdxvX2aYk

[TheNineClub]

The ref can't pressure the fighters to get into action, even threatening to give a point deduction, if they're in the process of feeling each other out.  It's a title fight ffs.

I remember some refs doing the same thing in UFC but it's not that common thing.
I can't remember what exact fight in UFC that was but I remember commentators complaining about this judge and saying that is not ok.
Maybe they are pressured by owners to get more action and avoid boring fights, and they do that if they have weak character.

But a double point deduction just cos both fighters were in the process of feeling each other out in what could be the most important match in their careers?  C'mon.  If Herb Dean or Keith Peterson did something like that in let's say Yan vs Aljo bout, they would't see the end of it.  They'd never be allowed from ever working in the UFC again.  It's basically the ref manipulating the fighters into making a wrong decision.  It's dumb.

Again, I think it boils down to the difference in the fighting culture. Where those types of actions might be strongly discouraged in the UFC, they might be well in the range of standard judging in Asian organizations, whatever we might think of it. As for UFC judging, the once hailed as the Gold Standard Herb Dean, actually made some extremely questionable decisions in his judging that are more of an offense than what we mentioned here, so there are plus and minuses on both sides.

[tokeweed]

^  I guess.  But it's still not an excuse to do it.  It basically could pressure the fighter into doing a move he wouldn't have and lose the match.

Who is going to remove those refs if they make a mistake like this?

Ref have their own union, and only one of their bodies can fire them, not bloody Dana White or some other guy like him in other mma organizations.
Then you also have local sport federation that is responsible for this and for rules in events, that means that every region even in United States can have different rules.
Take a look on one video showing craziest referee mistakes in UFC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2FdxvX2aYk

I never said Dana White or any promoter could fire them.  But they could prolly go to the commission and request to habe them removed for the event.  And in case you didn't know it's the commission that sends the refs to the events to oversee the matches.  That's why we see them same refs at UFC, LFA, Bellator, etc..  They are not employed by the UFC.

But a double point deduction for two fighters feeling each other out is dumb.  I'd def say the same thing if it happened in the UFC.

Anyway, did anybody watch the PFL Challenger Series?  I couldn't find a stream.

[eaLiTy]

~
Ref have their own union, and only one of their bodies can fire them, not bloody Dana White or some other guy like him in other mma organizations.
Then you also have local sport federation that is responsible for this and for rules in events, that means that every region even in United States can have different rules.

If Dana White does not like a referee he will make sure he will not officiate any event in the UFC, when was the last event Steve Mazzagatti officiated in the UFC, i do not remember him in a very long time and Dana White tagged him as the worst referee and then there is Mario Yamasaki and Dana White had issues with one of the fights where Valentina Shevchenko was beating her opponent badly every round and he was officiating and i do not remember seeing him again in the UFC.

Even last year Yacheslav Kiselev who was officiating was removed from the card after he failed to stop a fight in one of the preliminary fights and he was supposed to officiate later fights but was pulled from the card entirely and he never officiated again for the UFC.

[TheNineClub]

^  I guess.  But it's still not an excuse to do it.  It basically could pressure the fighter into doing a move he wouldn't have and lose the match.

I completely agree. I would like to see truly globally acceptable unified rules, gear (better gloves, looking at you UFC), unions, better refer education...yeah, there is a lot of work in MMA, but some of those things could at one point become a reality.

Anyway, did anybody watch the PFL Challenger Series?  I couldn't find a stream.

Only the highlights, these days I have to pick and choose what I watch because of limited time. I have become but a shell of my former 'JUST BLEED' self XD

[notblox1]

For anyone that missed One Championship match Rodtang vs Demetrious Johnson, you can now watch full fight for FREE on their youtube channel.
It was interesting rules with one Round having rules that suits each of the fighters, and I have to say that Demetrious Johnson looked unexpectedly good in first Muay Thai round.
I am sure we are going to see second fight between this two fighters soon, and I don't dislike idea of mixed rules like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dG_lg2g-sQ

[TopTort777]

John Wayne Parr has been off from my radars for some time. I have watched with pleasure his fight against Folayang. Did you know that is was JWP last fight? He is officially retired now. I have scrolled through his instagram photos, damn the guy is only 45, but his face looks like a shar pei dog. So many scar, stitches, wrinkles.


He says he has around 300 stitches on his face during his career.

Usually people at 45 does not look that old. If not a smile, I would give him 60.

[TheNineClub]

John Wayne Parr has been off from my radars for some time. I have watched with pleasure his fight against Folayang. Did you know that is was JWP last fight? He is officially retired now. I have scrolled through his instagram photos, damn the guy is only 45, but his face looks like a shar pei dog. So many scar, stitches, wrinkles.


He says he has around 300 stitches on his face during his career.

Usually people at 45 does not look that old. If not a smile, I would give him 60.

That far left picture is a compilation of all of his stitches, and damn, that's a lot. I love JWP's attitude and his will to return to fighting after his hip surgery, but didn't he already quit once? Before the Anthony Mundine fight? Enough is enough of punishment for his body, he can now focus on his daughter Jazzy kicking ass, and if I am not mistaken, his son is also wining some medals in grappling? What a legacy. A legend. Also, some of him looking older might have been amplified by his weight cut. But still...

[notblox1]

John Wayne Parr has been off from my radars for some time. I have watched with pleasure his fight against Folayang. Did you know that is was JWP last fight? He is officially retired now. I have scrolled through his instagram photos, damn the guy is only 45, but his face looks like a shar pei dog. So many scar, stitches, wrinkles.

This guy was fighting from 1997 and that means his professional fighting carrier in Kickboxing and Muay Thai was 25 years long, so it's natural that his face looks a lot older.
I am looking at his wikipedia page an he started training professional boxing earlier than that , so he should be luck if his brain is still working.
Putting that on side I have to say that 99 wins is his kickboxing carrier is amazing result.

[tokeweed]

For anyone that missed One Championship match Rodtang vs Demetrious Johnson, you can now watch full fight for FREE on their youtube channel.
It was interesting rules with one Round having rules that suits each of the fighters, and I have to say that Demetrious Johnson looked unexpectedly good in first Muay Thai round.
I am sure we are going to see second fight between this two fighters soon, and I don't dislike idea of mixed rules like this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dG_lg2g-sQ

Yup he's decent at stand up.  But you could see his insticts as a wrestler automatically gets him to go for the body lock or the under hooks the moment Rodtang gets too close to him.  It's so obvious. And he was just trying to hang in there at R1.  R2 was a whole different ball game.  It was Demtrious Johnson's world.

But all in all if the rounds were longer, I think Rodtang would be a problem for DJ.  I think they only three minute rounds if I remember it right.

[notblox1]

Yup he's decent at stand up.  But you could see his insticts as a wrestler automatically gets him to go for the body lock or the under hooks the moment Rodtang gets too close to him.  It's so obvious. And he was just trying to hang in there at R1.  R2 was a whole different ball game.  It was Demtrious Johnson's world.

I think MMA with wrestling is very much different from old style Muay Thai, maybe they look similar but it's not easy to adapt to style changes and I think Demetrius Johnson was better in adapting styles.
He event had some good punches towards Rodtang, he asked his after the fight did it hurt him and he said that he didn't feel them at all
I think most Muay Thai fighters would lose in regular MMA fight with normal rules, even champions like Rodtang.

[TopTort777]

I think MMA with wrestling is very much different from old style Muay Thai, maybe they look similar but it's not easy to adapt to style changes and I think Demetrius Johnson was better in adapting styles.
He event had some good punches towards Rodtang, he asked his after the fight did it hurt him and he said that he didn't feel them at all
I think most Muay Thai fighters would lose in regular MMA fight with normal rules, even champions like Rodtang.

If they managed to adopt Muay Thai to MMA, like Jose Aldo or Anderson Silva or Wanderlei Silva, then they might compete on a high level. One style fighter will always lose to a universal fighter.
I agree that most of Muay Thai fighters will lose in MMA. This sport is tough, but it is a lot acrobatic and artistic. All these jumps to land a high kick under weird angles wont work. And any average wrestler would leave no chance to win for a Muay Thai fighter.

[TheNineClub]

I think MMA with wrestling is very much different from old style Muay Thai, maybe they look similar but it's not easy to adapt to style changes and I think Demetrius Johnson was better in adapting styles.
He event had some good punches towards Rodtang, he asked his after the fight did it hurt him and he said that he didn't feel them at all
I think most Muay Thai fighters would lose in regular MMA fight with normal rules, even champions like Rodtang.

If they managed to adopt Muay Thai to MMA, like Jose Aldo or Anderson Silva or Wanderlei Silva, then they might compete on a high level. One style fighter will always lose to a universal fighter.
I agree that most of Muay Thai fighters will lose in MMA. This sport is tough, but it is a lot acrobatic and artistic. All these jumps to land a high kick under weird angles wont work. And any average wrestler would leave no chance to win for a Muay Thai fighter.

I think much more MMA fighters adopt some MT concepts in their fighting, think of anyone training under Duane Ludwig, Duke Roufus, or Firas Zahabi that have incorporated MT techniques to much success. So the issue is not MMA fighters adopting MT, or even MT fighters twisting their style to fit MMA, it's rather MT fighters not having too much grappling or wrestling skills. In today's MMA landscape, fighters that started with wrestling and grappling later in their career can't really catch up.

[TopTort777]

The sad situation in modern MMA - if your prime combat skills are not connected with wrestling, there is no place for you in MMA. It takes months or a year to teach wrestler to strikes, but it takes years for striker to learn wrestling.

In striking we have kicks, punches and elbows on different angles and levels. Just BJJ has over 90 techniques. Add throws, takedowns and etc. And multiply it by 2, as every move can be defended (striking has 3 blocks only, shoulder, leg and hand).

[notblox1]

The sad situation in modern MMA - if your prime combat skills are not connected with wrestling, there is no place for you in MMA. It takes months or a year to teach wrestler to strikes, but it takes years for striker to learn wrestling.

It doesn't have to be like that if fighter has very good skills in stand up, and some of them like McGregor became champion more than once mostly with his boxing skills.
I think that ground skills are more important, that is why Khabib smashed Connor and made it look easy, but all round skills are needed for modern day mma.

PFL Challenger Series 8 is starting tomorrow with four new fights and winners can earn new contracts with PFL organizations.
Main events is looking very interesting in Welterweight category with Chris Brown vs Carlos Leal.


https://www.pflmma.com/

[TopTort777]

I am just looking on stats UFC stats:

Flyweight champ Deiveson Figueiredo - his base is BJJ
Bantamweight champ Aljamain Sterling (lol) - BJJ/Wrestling
Featherweight champ Alexander Volkanovski - Kickboxing/Muay Thai
Lightweight champ Charles Oliveira - BJJ
Welterweight champ Kamaru Usman - BJJ/Wrestling
Middleweight champ Israel Adesanya - Kickboxing
Light heavyweight champ Glover Teixeira - Kajukembo (mix of boxing, karate, judo - looks like a combat sambo) / BJJ
Heavyweight champ Francis Ngannou - Boxing

Bellator:

Bantamweight Sergio Pettis - Taekwondo
Featherweight A.J. Mckee - wrestling
Lightweight Patricky Pitbull - BJJ
Welterweight Jaroslav Amosov - Sambo
Middleweight Gegard Mousasi - Kickboxing
Light heavyweight Vadim Nemkov - Sambo
Heavyweight Ryan Bader - BJJ

Only 5 pure strikes are champs in two major fighting promotions. I will stick to my vision, that wrestlers-grapplers are dominating MMA and it is easy to create an universal fighter from them, then from a striker.

[tokeweed]

The sad situation in modern MMA - if your prime combat skills are not connected with wrestling, there is no place for you in MMA. It takes months or a year to teach wrestler to strikes, but it takes years for striker to learn wrestling.

In striking we have kicks, punches and elbows on different angles and levels. Just BJJ has over 90 techniques. Add throws, takedowns and etc. And multiply it by 2, as every move can be defended (striking has 3 blocks only, shoulder, leg and hand).

It's a tough sport but I wouldn't exactly call it 'sad'.  But maybe we could call it 'sad' in a way that as fans the barrier of entry for the more exciting strikers is tougher compared to their boring counterparts who are wrestlers.  This goes tougher as the skill level goes up.  But then again we've seen great strikers learn enough wrestling to make to the top like Adesanya...   And we've seen wrestlers learn to strike and be as exciting guys to watch like Chimaev.

[notblox1]

Bellator is finally back in few days after short break with event Bellator 277 McKee vs Pitbull 2, that promising to be very interesting.
In main event we have undefeated fighter AJ McKee Jr with 18 wins, and he is fighting for Featherweight Championship title with Brazilian Patricio Pitbull.
Co-main event is also looking good with classical Russia vs United States fight between Vadim Nemkov and Corey Anderson.
This event should not be missed for any MMA fans, especially main card.


https://www.bellator.com/

[TopTort777]

Both fight are champion vs top1 in weight division Perhaps Timothy Johnson against Linton Vassell is also worth watching, just because Johnson was in UFC once.

I wonder if any Bellator fighter dreams to move to UFC. What do you think? To they even get proposals? Or high salaries keep them in Bellator? I see many has been fighting only in Bellator, got sort of a 10-1, or x-0 records. On the paper they are stars, would mix UFC rooster nicely. Or UFC have enough fighters already?

[tokeweed]

Bellator is finally back in few days after short break with event Bellator 277 McKee vs Pitbull 2, that promising to be very interesting.
In main event we have undefeated fighter AJ McKee Jr with 18 wins, and he is fighting for Featherweight Championship title with Brazilian Patricio Pitbull.
Co-main event is also looking good with classical Russia vs United States fight between Vadim Nemkov and Corey Anderson.
This event should not be missed for any MMA fans, especially main card.


https://www.bellator.com/

Now there's a worthy main and co main events for a Bellator PPV card.  It's gonna be interesting to see how Nemkov fare's vs a seasoned vet in the UFC.  He's not really at the level of Jon Jones or anything but he was at 205's top 5 at one point and he was on his way to challenge for the belt.

And I forgot what happened with the McKee vs Pitbull fight.  McKee won it really quick right..?

Edit:  Yup...  It ended quick.

https://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/bouts/576225-bellator-263-patricio-pitbull-vs-aj-mercenary-mckee-jr