About Bestchange [again]

[webtricks]

I have removed their previous negative while I look into the current state of events (which are unrelated to why the negative was given). Do note that I was being threatened with a flag[1] unless I comply, not that this was the reason for complying.

[1] I don't see how someone has a "right to give a flag" if I don't comply with a rating review in time.
Publicized PM because cases are on-going and I don't want to keep this in my box.

Actually they are confusing flag with trust rating. By giving flag, they surely meant giving red trust if red trust for not paying campaign participants isn't removed.

[1714162411]

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[1714162411]

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[1714162411]

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[Lauda]

I have removed their previous negative while I look into the current state of events (which are unrelated to why the negative was given). Do note that I was being threatened with a flag[1] unless I comply, not that this was the reason for complying.

[1] I don't see how someone has a "right to give a flag" if I don't comply with a rating review in time.
Publicized PM because cases are on-going and I don't want to keep this in my box.

Actually they are confusing flag with trust rating. By giving flag, they surely meant giving red trust if red trust for not paying campaign participants isn't removed.

I don't see how someone has a "right to give a negative rating" if I don't comply with a rating review in time. There you go, same answer applies.

[Steamtyme]

I have removed their previous negative while I look into the current state of events (which are unrelated to why the negative was given). Do note that I was being threatened with a flag[1] unless I comply, not that this was the reason for complying.
~snip~
[1] I don't see how someone has a "right to give a flag" if I don't comply with a rating review in time.
Publicized PM because cases are on-going and I don't want to keep this in my box.

I'm kinda shocked you gave a shit about them creating a flag, especially one without basis. In no way is you leaving them negative feedback something that warrants a Flag against you as it doesn't mean people are at risk of losing money in dealing with you. While I don't agree universally with your use of the trust/feedback system, you in no way should be pushed into performing reviews based on the timeline of others.
Not that it matters at the moment but to me that earned them an exclusion, same as anyone I come across with an inherent failure to use the system as I think it's meant to be. They shouldn't be threatening as a courtesy and should have just left a neutral expressing their opinions.
I revised my neutral for the time being but will see what happens and whether or not they will continue to claim 100% reliable and legal, on the bestchange.com site,  while indemnifying themselves from liability at the same time.

Actually they are confusing flag with trust rating. By giving flag, they surely meant giving red trust if red trust for not paying campaign participants isn't removed.

This is a misuse of the feedback system as well. Retaliatory feedback is not acceptable.

[johhnyUA]

.......

Bestchange trying, as we would say in russian "И pыбкy cъecть, и нax*й cecть" (i will be appreciated for any analogy in english about this aphorism\catchphrase).

Thanks to Veleor, lets look what bestchange writing in their FAQ:

Q: Bceм ли oбмeнникaм из мoнитopингa BestChange.ru мoжнo дoвepять?
A: Bы мoжeтe бeз oпaceний пpoвoдить oбмeны нa oбмeнныx пyнктax, чиcлящиxcя в aктивнoм cocтoянии нa нaшeм мoнитopингe Кaждый oбмeнный пyнкт был тщaтeльнo пpoвepeн пepeд включeниeм нa нaш caйт. <...>

Q: Я oтпpaвил дeньги в oдин из oбмeнникoв, нo oбмeн eщё нe пpoвeдeн, xoтя пoлoжeнный cpoк yжe пpoшeл. Чтo мнe дeлaть?
A: Ecли вы пpoизвoдили oбмeн в oднoм из oбмeнныx пyнктoв нaшeгo мoнитopингa, тo мoжeтe нe бecпoкoитьcя – вaши дeньги никyдa нe пpoпaдyт, т.к. в нaшeм лиcтингe иcключeнo пpиcyтcтвиe мoшeнничecкиx caйтoв. <...>

Translate yellow sentences: 1. "You can make any exchanges without any concerns in exchangers listed in "active" section on our site. Every exchanger was carefully checked before add it to our site "

2. "Your money will not be stolen, because in our listing there is not any scam sites"

If you talking something like that, you must bear responsibility if something will go wrong.

But in their ToS they are writing something like that:

2.5. Пoльзoвaтeль пpeдyпpeждeн o тoм, чтo Aдминиcтpaция Caйтa нe нeceт oтвeтcтвeннocти зa пoceщeниe и иcпoльзoвaниe им внeшниx pecypcoв, ccылки нa кoтopыe мoгyт coдepжaтьcя нa caйтe.

Simple translate: "We are not responsible for any use of external sites, links  of which can be placed in our site"

But in english part (bestchange.com) it's even better  . Look at their ToS:

THE OPERATORS'S TOTAL CUMULATIVE LIABILITY FOR ANY AND ALL CLAIMS IN CONNECTION WITH THE WEBSITE WILL NOT EXCEED FIVE U.S. DOLLARS ($5.00). USER AGREES AND ACKNOWLEDGES THAT THE FOREGOING LIMITATIONS ON LIABILITY ARE AN ESSENTIAL BASIS OF THE BARGAIN AND THAT THE OPERATORS WOULD NOT PROVIDE THE WEBSITE ABSENT SUCH LIMITATION.

Fuck, that is really good. If you would be scammed by shitty exchange service from their site, Bestchange will pay you 5 dollars. Excellent!

[Balthazar]

Bestchange trying, as we would say in russian "И pыбкy cъecть, и нax*й cecть" (i will be appreciated for any analogy in english about this aphorism\catchphrase).

You mean trying to serve two masters.

No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

Matthew 6:24, new international version.

[Best_Change]

We would like to address accusations raised here.

Firstly, regarding trust feedbacks – we did not mean to threaten or bully into removing the feedback, but it was false, untrue and unfair to us. We appreciate that some users have removed it, but not everybody did so, unfortunately.


As for our FAQs ---

Thanks to Veleor, lets look what bestchange writing in their FAQ:

Q: Bceм ли oбмeнникaм из мoнитopингa BestChange.ru мoжнo дoвepять?
A: Bы мoжeтe бeз oпaceний пpoвoдить oбмeны нa oбмeнныx пyнктax, чиcлящиxcя в aктивнoм cocтoянии нa нaшeм мoнитopингe Кaждый oбмeнный пyнкт был тщaтeльнo пpoвepeн пepeд включeниeм нa нaш caйт. <...>

Translate yellow sentences: 1. "You can make any exchanges without any concerns in exchangers listed in "active" section on our site. Every exchanger was carefully checked before add it to our site "

please see the full text of the quoted paragraph: https://www.bestchange.com/faq.html

You can safely make exchanges at exchangers listed in our monitor as active. Every electronic currency exchange service was thoroughly checked before we included it to our website.
Besides, we control due performance of exchange services. If our users start experiencing problems with a certain exchanger, we can temporarily exclude such site from the rating unless the issue is resolved. Also, our monitoring automatically switches off exchangers if they receive three or more negative reviews. Any user can publish a negative review if he/she faced a problem while working with a certain exchanger. Administrators of the majority of exchange services cooperate with our monitor and can quickly deal with the issue, and when it is resolved – post a comment directly at BestChange.com.
Despite the fact that we thoroughly check all exchangers before including them into our monitor, please be advised that when leaving for the website of any exchanger you find yourself on a resource which is not connected to BestChange and is not legally bound with us. Therefore, we bear no responsibly shall the funds be lost as a result of any actions of the exchanger. Despite we check all the exchangers before listing them, it cannot guarantee their integrity in the future, although we try to minimize the risks for our users. When choosing an exchanger, please pay attention to the reviews left by other users, the condition of the exchanger’s website, reserves, current status of the exchanger on our monitor. When making transactions, remember that in many payment systems they are non-refundable.

As for switching the exchanger off/on in the monitor.
When the exchanger was switched off initially, it was because it failed to timely answer to email inquiries from moderator. This is a usual practice; in such situations the exchangers are switched off for 1-2 days and are switched back on automatically.
Currently the exchanger is switched off not for an offense, but until the situation is resolved. Because of lack of solid proof, after having reviewed the viewpoints of both parties, we had to side with the user.

~~~

Half of this list are exchangers, which are, firstly, not a scam until proven otherwise by authorized bodies, secondly, there is a warning on every such page, for instance:
https://www.bestchange.com/exmo-exchanger.html
We only created their pages so that people could comments on them, we do not show them in results for any exchange directions, they are placed in a separate section for information about rates.
Other projects are switched off. Currently users can leave a review about them or read the reviews about their past work without any serious complaints.


Lastly, we would like to quote the user who encountered the situation with the exchangers and started topics across the forum:

PS:
C BestChange oпpeдeлeннo пaлкy мы пepeгнyли, в тoм чиcлe и пo мoeй винe. Пo peшeнию пpoблeмы пpилoжy вce ycилия чтoбы иcпpaвить этo

Translation: we went too far with BestChange, and I am to blame for that as well. When the problem is solved, I will do my best to fix that.

The thing is, that the user did not pick up the exchanger on our website, he found it on Monero’s website. However, all the blame is put on us and we are made the bad guy here. We, in our turn, we trying to help solve this situation.

Also, on an important note, as we said in another thread, the exchanger did not take away the user’s money or embezzle it; it has just frozen it to conduct an investigation, because the transaction was marked as suspicious. Therefore it's too early to speak about scam in this situation.

[JollyGood]

Is the BestChange user (Best_Change) still sending out PMs threatening to take action if the negative trust is not removed because the first week of campaign payments was released?

[Veleor]

Best_Change, the FAQ section on your website also has such paragraph:

Q: I send money to one of exchangers, but the exchange still didn't finish, despite the deadline has already passed. What should I do?

A: If you performed an exchange in one of exchange services of our monitoring, don't worry – your money isn't lost, as there are no scam sites in our list.

Nevertheless, sometimes some exchange services, like any other organization, may experience difficulties in providing their services to users in time. In such cases we recommend:

• Wait a bit. As a rule, most exchanges complete in one hour, if the policy of the exchange service doesn't state the opposite. The delay may be longer if the exchange request was placed out of hours;
• Contact the support of the exchange service you tried to perform the exchange at. Try various available contact options, may be some of them will be more efficient;
• As a last resort you can submit an abuse to this exchanger on our website (red, negative testimonial) and specify your exchange operation id. The majority of administrators do cooperate with our monitoring, and if they receive a complaint, they can react to the problem faster, and when the issue is resolved they can post a comment directly at BestChange.com.

I believe this clause in FAQ certainly misleads the Bestchange users and give them the false confidence that they're not risking when making transfers through the exchange services listed in the Bestchange.
SergeyMalar's case shows that he used the exchanger, which had active status on the Bestchange and he still can't get back 21 000 USD for more than 3 months.

<...> Also, on an important note, as we said in another thread, the exchanger did not take away the user’s money or embezzle it; it has just frozen it to conduct an investigation, because the transaction was marked as suspicious. Therefore it's too early to speak about scam in this situation.

It's a strange when you say it's too early to write about scam, because SergeyMalar mentioned in the Russian topic that today is the deadline for the exhanger's response, which was indicated by Bestchange itself.

[dkbit98]

I left neutral feedback on Bestchange profile, and since then I received several PM requests to remove my feedback.
One more for my ignore list.

[Best_Change]

As you can see that situation has been resolved and the exchanger has returned the funds to the user:

Official statement from ChangeHero regarding the case with Sergey M.

On 27/10/2019 supposedly Sergey M. (hereinafter - “the User”) has made two transactions with the web interface of the ChangeHero service (hereinafter - “the Service”).

The first transaction was made at 15:15:12 on 27/10/2019. Exchanged 50 USDT20 to XMR. Finished at 15:52:43.
The second transaction was made at 17:11:44 on 27/10/2019. Exchanged 21,010 USDT20 to XMR. The transaction was automatically put on hold due to AML-system being triggered.

Sequence of interactions with the user
 
The interaction with the User was happening as follows:
On 27/10/2019 at 20:28 the User contacted the Service’s support team through the chat asking for a refund of his assets because he refused to pass the user verification procedure known as KYC (“Know Your Customer”). At 21:04 he was provided with the support team’s email address, where further communication was occuring;
On 29/10/2019 at 15:55, after consulting with legal experts, the Service has decided to continue verification of the User until the circumstances are completely clarified;
On 01/11/2019 at 14:53 after the User’s inquiry, the Service affirmed the refund is possible only after completing the KYC procedure;
On 09/11/2019, as a reply to the previous letter, the User sent an email with his ID, proof of source of part of his funds and screenshots of his exchange account attached to it;
To confirm the User’s identity, on 21/12/2019 a Skype call was made after being repeatedly postponed, through the User’s fault as well.

During the Skype call, the User was asked a few standard questions, which, in our opinion, could serve as a proof of ownership over the funds:
Which cryptocurrency wallet was used by the User to send the funds to the Service;
Which cryptocurrency wallet was used by the User to receive the funds exchanged by the Service;
Why did the User exchanged his funds not directly on the exchange (at the time of transactions, the rates on the exchange were more favorable);
For what activities does the User utilize his exchange account, from which the funds were sent to the Service.
The User was not able to provide an answer to any of these questions and disconnected from the call, claiming he would call back in 15-20 minutes.

To get more information on the case, during a few days from 21/12/2019 until 17/01/2020 the Service sent inquiries to the exchange from which the funds were sent. The information received from the exchange representatives can be summarized as follows:
The funds were indeed sent from their exchange account;
The account shows the signs of “allegedly suspicious activity”;
There were no official inquiries from law enforcement regarding this account.

Closing the case

According to the Terms of Use, on 31/01/2020 at 13:39:43 the Service has made a refund to the outgoing Address 0x975f422840ed3729a5b95a60e454e0826b719f4a, Hash: 0x207cc2a75781aecc9b08d6f7e7bfeadce53ff85c7ee509cc79ea8da1b8477d9f. The address will be blacklisted by the Service, and the User or any further operations connected with this address will be blocked.

Despite the unjustified accusations, all the time since the start of the incident, the User’s funds were on hold on the Service’s payin address, were not sent or used in any other transactions.

Concluding the case

ChangeHero is a non-custodial exchange solution. It does not withhold its users’ assets and balances. It does not require obligatory sign-up.

The Service’s team adheres to the policy of opposing illegal activities, such as fraud, money laundering, as well as suspicious operations and transactions. The Service’s policy will not be changed despite the attempts to influence it through public activities, private e-mail and messaging, Service’s partners etc.

The Service is going to review the communication flow with its customers who refuse to undergo KYC and to resolve similar future cases within 24 hours.

The Service is going to review its Terms of Use to make the conditions of using the Service more clear and understandable to the Users.

The team is sincerely sorry that some of these unjustified accusations and reputation damage were dealt to the BestChange and Indacoin services that have no connection to the transactions in question. We express our gratitude to BestChange and Indacoin for adhering to their Terms of Use and not pressuring ChangeHero to refund the assets in question.

[Yatsan]

Этo нe xopoшaя нoвocть, этo axyитeльнaя нoвocть, дpyзья! Я для ceбя cдeлaл дecятки вывoдoв из этoй cитyaции. Oбмeнникy ChangeHero нe мeшaлo бы eщe кoмпeнcиpoвaть тe вeдpa вaлepьянки кoтopыe мнe пpишлocь пить, нo я paд, oчeнь cильнo paд чтo cитyaция нaкoнeц peшeнa.

Oбмeнникy ChangeHero oчeнь coвeтyю бoльшe нe мopoзитьcя, измeнить дизaйн caйтa в cooтвeтcвии иx peaльныx пpaвил и в дecятки paз ycкopить paбoтy cepвиca. Bы нaнecли бoльшoй yдap cвoeй peпyтaции, нo нe cлилиcь, cдeлaли вoзвpaт. У вac eщe ecть шaнc вoccтaнoвить ceбe peпyтaцию, нo пoвepьтe, cepвиc вaм нyжнo кapдинaльнo пepepaбoтaть, c тaким пoдxoдoм вы дaлeкo нe yйдeтe.


BCEM КTO ПOДДEPЖИBAЛ OГPOMHAЯ БЛAГOДAPHOCTЬ. BestChange, cпacибo зa тo чтo paзpeшили cитyaцию! Пoдcкaжитe кaк cнять флaги кoтopыe я нacтaвил? Bcex ocтaльныx тoжe пpoшy cнять c BestChange флaги пo мoeй пpoблeмe.

The issue has been resolve, I just read it in google translated version and I can confirm that it's all good now.


I am expecting that best_change will resolve this issue, imagine they are spending more than 1btc a week to promote their exchange, so literally they don't need to scam anyone to get some money.

@Best_change, thankyou for your explaining and still being active here in forum, you deserve to be here. Congratulation that this issue has been resolve. Little by little your reputation here will be restored here.

For those DT that tag best_change I think this is the time to remove them, and let's be happy that this issue has been resolve.   Congrats again @Best_change

[johhnyUA]

Changegero.io returned money to Sergey (see above)

Thanks from me to all english users who were active in helping ordinary people to get justice with bit services. This is how should work in our crypto community!

As about myself, i will keep my tag on bestchange but will rewrite it and make it neutral.

[Balthazar]

Changegero.io returned money to Sergey (see above)

Thanks from me to all english users who were active in helping ordinary people to get justice with bit services. This is how should work in our crypto community!

As about myself, i will keep my tag on bestchange but will rewrite it and make it neutral.

Returning funds is good but they also have to pay him interest to compensate inflation. They held funds for over 90 days for no reason. They owe him additional $157.

[logfiles]

Quite an interesting turn of events.
I was hesitant to tag Bestchange because the scenario was somehow confusing.

I just want to know how things workout from here and on since it's one of those rare scenario's i have come across

Now that the Changegero.io issue "seem to have been resolved" what happens to the Newbie flag that is massively supported on their profile?
What happens to the "non use of trusted escrow" feedback that was left now that they have paid the first week(i think)?

[Balthazar]

logfiles , I think you're missing that Veleor is not a newbie.

P. S. I removed my negative feedbacks from Best_Change, Indacoin and ChangeHero.io and replaced them with neutral notifications.

[logfiles]

logfiles , I think you're missing that Veleor is not a newbie.

I think you misunderstood me.  I am not calling Veleor a newbie 
I was referring to the type of flag he created (Type 1/Newbie/Guest flag)

[coupable]

Now that the Changegero.io issue "seem to have been resolved" what happens to the Newbie flag that is massively supported on their profile?
What happens to the "non use of trusted escrow" feedback that was left now that they have paid the first week(i think)?

Actual flag and red trusts are all about "promoting fake scam project" and have this thread as a reference. Now that the case is resolved, only one user has changed his feedback from negative to netreul notification and i think other users didn't yet notice that the issue with changehero has been resolved and that their feedbacks are no more appropriate. All the feedbacks about not using an escrow have been removed after the campaign paied first week .
Let's see what will happen next .

[Pffrt]

Returning funds is good but they also have to pay him interest to compensate inflation. They held funds for over 90 days for no reason. They owe him additional $157.

Who said it was for no reason? They may have an investigation, which most of the centralize exchange do, you have no controll over centralize exchange. Did they ever paid any sort of interest or compensation towards the inflation? No without doubt. However, would you compensate the exchange if it has deflation? No without doubt again.
Here's one case of sportsbet where they had scammed (or hold or whatever) 21.5 BTC, did you accused them for this reason? No.
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1863248.0
I respect you or anyone who try to prevent possible scam.

[coupable]

Now that the Changegero.io issue "seem to have been resolved" what happens to the Newbie flag that is massively supported on their profile?
What happens to the "non use of trusted escrow" feedback that was left now that they have paid the first week(i think)?

Actual flag and red trusts are all about "promoting fake scam project" and have this thread as a reference. Now that the case is resolved, only one user has changed his feedback from negative to netreul notification and i think other users didn't yet notice that the issue with changehero has been resolved and that their feedbacks are no more appropriate. All the feedbacks about not using an escrow have been removed after the campaign paied first week .
Let's see what will happen next .

As am wearing the signature of BestChange since the biggenning of its campaign, i have been always inteested about the open accusations against the reputation of the project representer who is also managing the campaign.
I posted three days ago after the update about the case been resolved with the accused exchange and many DT users reviewed their feedback, but some others still not. I post this to bump the topic and get more opinions about the actual situation of BestChange .

[tvplus006]

Now that the Changegero.io issue "seem to have been resolved" what happens to the Newbie flag that is massively supported on their profile?
What happens to the "non use of trusted escrow" feedback that was left now that they have paid the first week(i think)?

Actual flag and red trusts are all about "promoting fake scam project" and have this thread as a reference. Now that the case is resolved, only one user has changed his feedback from negative to netreul notification and i think other users didn't yet notice that the issue with changehero has been resolved and that their feedbacks are no more appropriate. All the feedbacks about not using an escrow have been removed after the campaign paied first week .
Let's see what will happen next .

As am wearing the signature of BestChange since the biggenning of its campaign, i have been always inteested about the open accusations against the reputation of the project representer who is also managing the campaign.
I posted three days ago after the update about the case been resolved with the accused exchange and many DT users reviewed their feedback, but some others still not. I post this to bump the topic and get more opinions about the actual situation of BestChange .

I decided to bring this up because new details about the case have been revealed: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5230166
I think that it will not be difficult to read 2 pages of the topic in Russian using Google translate.
I believe this is very important to restore the reputation of Best_Change.