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Author Topic: Do you verify every bet as a gambler? Provably Fair Guide.  (Read 4877 times)
bitterguy28
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December 08, 2020, 07:16:42 AM
 #221

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.
Only Ponzi gambling side will do that Mate because the foundation of every online gambling sites are to prove their fairness(though not that total fair as 50/50) because gamblers specially those Whales and Bigtime gambler in which the main target of gambling businesses can analyze and find that Cheat and if they do then for sure they will only gain small time gamblers that soon will also leave them for being a cheater.

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December 08, 2020, 09:20:03 AM
 #222

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

It's good that you want to verify your bets yourself now. I agree with you that we need to cautious especially with new casinos. If you do find a manipulated bet please make a screenshot and share with all of us on the forum. There are many gamblers on the forum here and if we identify not legit games immediately we can protect others here. Once someone raises the red flag on the forum there will be many other gamblers taking a good look.
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December 08, 2020, 10:14:36 AM
 #223

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

It's good that you want to verify your bets yourself now. I agree with you that we need to cautious especially with new casinos. If you do find a manipulated bet please make a screenshot and share with all of us on the forum. There are many gamblers on the forum here and if we identify not legit games immediately we can protect others here. Once someone raises the red flag on the forum there will be many other gamblers taking a good look.

Yes, sharing it will also save those other gamblers around. All of us here wanted to have a fair gambling experienced, if you find something
with the site, sharing it here will exposed everything.

Also, it will add more investigations coming from co-forum members and gamblers as they also wanted to help out in exposing any unfair tactics or system from the gambling house that involves facilitating with kinds of actions.

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December 08, 2020, 03:52:27 PM
 #224

It's good that you want to verify your bets yourself now. I agree with you that we need to cautious especially with new casinos. If you do find a manipulated bet please make a screenshot and share with all of us on the forum. There are many gamblers on the forum here and if we identify not legit games immediately we can protect others here. Once someone raises the red flag on the forum there will be many other gamblers taking a good look.

Especially if many members here supported the claim as they also experience the same thing with the gambling site, it is likely that the gambling site will be reported and lose its reputation to many cryptocurrency gamblers all over the world. That is why we should understand what provably fair casinos are. We need to know how to verify if it is really legit not just believing as we saw the "provably fair" listed on the site. There are chances that new casinos will claim this but if we know how to verify, they will not be able to cheat with people right away.
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December 08, 2020, 06:38:35 PM
 #225

It’s important gamblers verify their bet. I’m betting it is important one take precautions and be sure of the source that provides the gamble platform. Well I agree it’s not all necessary to verify the bet but that’s of you are sure the site is reputable with lots of testimonials.

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December 09, 2020, 09:23:24 PM
 #226

Maybe if we are playing gambling on a reputable site, we can do that because the site will not try to cheat their members.
Once the site is caught doing that, they will lose their members and of course, they will lose their opportunity to make money.
But in the new gambling site, we don't have to verify if we only gamble for fun.
Not many gamblers who use a big amount of money to gamble will verify every bet because some will think that is time-consuming.
If they verify their bets, that mean they can not enjoy their time playing gambling games.

I agree that it's not worth verifying every bets if you are on reputable gambling site. But you should never gamble on a site whether new or old that does not provide the way for proving the legitimacy of the bet. Even if you are playing for fun. Any gambling site that are not provably fair should be avoided. Proving the fairness is the basic precursor for legitimacy.
While it is unlikely that a site that has a good reputation is going to suddenly begin to scam its customers, at the same time we should verify ourselves that everything is fine, as you say playing in a casino that is not probably fair should not be an option, but what it is the point of playing in a casino that allows you to verify your bets if you are never going to do it? I am not saying that you should verify all your bets but at least verify some of them from time to time.

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December 10, 2020, 12:01:23 AM
 #227

While it is unlikely that a site that has a good reputation is going to suddenly begin to scam its customers
-snip
Be careful, if the owner of the casino sells it to someone else without saying it, you can get bad surprises even if the casino had a good reputation. Provably fairness doesn't protect against exit scams.

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December 10, 2020, 12:36:55 AM
 #228

It’s important gamblers verify their bet. I’m betting it is important one take precautions and be sure of the source that provides the gamble platform. Well I agree it’s not all necessary to verify the bet but that’s of you are sure the site is reputable with lots of testimonials.

Not really. If people playing gambling don't search for the money, they don't have to verify their bet. They will only want to enjoy the game without thinking of that. They will think that to verify their bet will need more time, and they will spend longer because their reason for playing gambling is just to having fun and enjoy the gambling games. I don't verify my bet too, and I am only just playing the games, enjoy it for some time, and stop it right away before I lose more money. If you want to verify your bet, you are free to do, but you need to think about how long you will stay on the gambling games and how much money you will spend.

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December 10, 2020, 04:02:56 AM
 #229

While it is unlikely that a site that has a good reputation is going to suddenly begin to scam its customers
-snip
Be careful, if the owner of the casino sells it to someone else without saying it, you can get bad surprises even if the casino had a good reputation. Provably fairness doesn't protect against exit scams.
what would be the owner of casino selling to someone else?i don't get it sorry ..

They are talking about the verification of Each bets for the sake of checking if the site is Fair so what is the selling issue?

and also reputable Casino's are very carful in each steps because a simple mistake may lead to their negative feeds and reaction from betting public.

So why would they do stupidity when they are Bagging Money for staying firm and fair?

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December 10, 2020, 06:14:45 AM
 #230

Not really. If people playing gambling don't search for the money, they don't have to verify their bet. They will only want to enjoy the game without thinking of that. They will think that to verify their bet will need more time, and they will spend longer because their reason for playing gambling is just to having fun and enjoy the gambling games. I don't verify my bet too, and I am only just playing the games, enjoy it for some time, and stop it right away before I lose more money. If you want to verify your bet, you are free to do, but you need to think about how long you will stay on the gambling games and how much money you will spend.

Same for me, I gamble to reduce the stress after hours of work, and verifying each bet also take some time. I just enjoy the outcome of the game either I win or lose.
People that verifies their bet take gambling seriously, ofcourse you won't go to some unknown or not famous website to gamble some big amount of money so those popular or top rated websites are fair on their customers so I don't think you should be afraid if they are fooling you.
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December 10, 2020, 11:26:58 AM
 #231

Verifying every single bet is one of those things that I do when I just started gambling using a new website and I normally won't do that for the rest of the time.

Just like many others in the topic mentioned it's a bit time consuming and it can get in a way of enjoying your experience, I get that why some still do it to make sure the games they're playing is fair but in my opinion you should go for the casino websites that you trust the most whether it's based on their reputation and popularity or it's based on your own past good experience with that casino, that way you can be a bit more comfortable gambling and have an actual good time instead of just constantly verifying your bets.
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December 10, 2020, 12:33:00 PM
 #232

Provably Fair Script is one of the basic element of online gambling, especially for crypto based casinos. However, most of the gamblers don't give dime about it while some don't even know what is it and how it operates. I started crypto gambling in 2016 and didn't know about Provably Fair for most of my initial gambling days. But believe me in the absence of Provably Fair, you are not gambling, you are just being cheated by the house.

The basic idea of this thread is to share my views on PF script and how to make most out of it. I have spent few weeks developing unique logic for Provably Fair script for upcoming gambling site clubbing it with blockchain technology. While developing it, I visited around 20 casinos and tried their PF script to understand current practice. However, this thread is not about my script but about current practice.

If you are in this section, you probably have heard about Provably Fair script and may be verifying your bets too. But have you ever tried to understand the logic behind it? If not, let me give a brief explanation on how Provably Fair system works.

Different gambling sites use different Provably Fair implementation however the basic idea is to generate a random number based on three factors: client seed, server seed and nonce.

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works Cheesy).
(iii) Site will generate random client seed for you but don't use it. Always choose your own.

Server Seed: It is generated by server. Server will choose random string of random length and convert it to sha256 hash which will provided to you. For example, if server picks 'thisIsRandomSeed' as server seed then this will be provide you: 45006cccc7e44ee0b6c0752469de2fe1ad6bff589fb789bfb60773224cf2cc0a.
Since sha256 is one-way hashing you will know sha256 hash before making bet but you cannot decipher server seed before betting. The site will show you unhashed server seed once you change your seeds. Then you can verify that the sha256 hash of server seed is similar to what was presented to you before bet.

Nonce: In context of Provably Fair, nonce is mostly regarded as the number of times you have made bet with the combination of same client and server seed. For example, if I make two bets with 'ClientSeed' as client seed and 'ServerSeed' as server seed then the result of bet will be generated on the basis of 'ClientSeed+1+ServerSeed' for first bet and 'ClientSeed+2+ServerSeed' for second bet.

Here is graphical illustration of what I just said:


(Some people say my drawings are as good as Picasso's.)

Now coming to how results are driven from these seeds. As I said earlier, different sites use different logic to determine result. However, there is one basic logic which is being used by around 80% of the casinos, notably Fortunejack, PrimeDice, Bitsler etc. This is how it works:

Step 1: First of all let's assume three variables. Server seed = 'ServerSeed', client seed = 'ClientSeed' and nonce = 1. Now we have to use hmac authentication by hashing our variables using sha512 hashing algorithm. Server seed will serve as a secret key to generate hash while client seed and nonce will be used as an input like this: 'ClientSeed-1' or 'client seed - nonce'.

Step 2: So the hash of the above seeds will look like this: 671e7387e26fa724d089521805430866b29f6849ad2928a26e5ed01101f72f57883b972f20f9464 d99ab13c2adcf37bd955863c69697739628d70969adba1ab3

Step 3: Not going into technical term and by simply sticking to layman's language, we have to take first 5 characters of hash i.e. 671e7. Now we have to convert these 5 characters from hex value to integer value which will be: 422375.

Step 4: If the integer value is between 0 and 1million (1,000,000) then it's ok. But if it is more than or equal to 1M then we will use next 5 characters from hash. But since in our case, 422375 is less than 1000000 so this number will determine the result.

Step 5: In this step, we will simply divide the value with 10000 and take the remainder for next step. In our case, 422375 when divided by 10000 will leave 2375 in remainder which will be consider for final step.

Step 6: In this step, we will simply divide the remainder by 100 and this will determine the final result. In our case it will be 23.75. This should match the dice roll. If not then site is most probably cheating you.



Now coming to the most important part. Probably this part is the main reason why I created this thread. Although, the above system is foolproof but site owners can easily fool you if you ain't paying enough attention. So here are the few points you should consider while gambling:

(i) Always copy server seed hash shown to you before betting.
(ii) After bet is complete, create new client seed. Make sure server seed is also changed along with it.
(iii) Once new client seed is created, site will show you unhashed server seed of previous bet. Copy it and convert it to sha256 hash using some third party online tool.
(iv) Match the server seed hash that you copied in step (i) to the one generated in step (iii) and make sure both are exactly same.

Two days ago, I tested my code with few people. I shown them different server seed hash before bet and after bet I kept first 6 characters same, last 3 characters same and few similar characters in the middle. It took just 30-40 seconds for my machine to generate such hash. With more powerful machine, I can speed up the process and create more matching characters. To my surprise, none of the tester noticed that they were shown different server hash before and after bet. It is human tendency that they only consider few letters (probably starting and ending ones) when presented random word like hexadecimal hash. So with bare eyes, no one was able to notice the difference. So be safe and make sure you verify every bet you make. Being a coding enthusiast, I can assure you that it is very much possible that house can easily manipulate results without player even noticing.

Another thing you can do is to use cross-casinos verification. For example, Fortunejack and Bitsler use same script, you can verify your fortunejack bets using bitsler's verification script.

I have been playing in an online betting website for the past couple of weeks but still have not won even a single time. It made me suspect that the site is rigged and that unless their bots say so, we wouldn't be able to get profits from them. I'll try to use your procedures just to confirm my claim as if it is true then they are fooling hundreds of thousands of gamblers rihht now to a game we virtually have no way or chance at winning. So I thank you for this. Help like these should be much readily available in this channel as gambling is the riskiest thing you could do with bitcoin.

That was really strength dude, for a couple of weeks you never experience to win. Perhaps there is something fishy going to that site
platform and you found out that there is something wrong. Well, I guess I need to try this one too, even this is the first time I discovered this one I will surely apply later, thanks for this anyway.
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December 11, 2020, 12:47:17 AM
 #233

~snip~

Same for me, I gamble to reduce the stress after hours of work and verifying each bet also takes some time. I just enjoy the outcome of the game either I win or lose.
People that verifies their bet take gambling seriously, of course, you won't go to some unknown or not famous website to gamble some big amount of money so those popular or top rated websites are fair on their customers so I don't think you should be afraid if they are fooling you.

If we can enjoy gambling games without thinking much about the outcome, we will not have a problem stopping anytime.

I am afraid that people who verify their bet will take a long time in the gambling games, which we should avoid. If we stay at a gambling place for a long time, the passion for playing gambling will become big, leading us to spend more money.

Perhaps, people verify their bet on the unknown or not famous website to know if they can prove that they are provably fair to their members. After they get the result, they can share it with other people, so they can know if they can play on that site or not.

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December 11, 2020, 02:21:39 AM
 #234



If we can enjoy gambling games without thinking much about the outcome, we will not have a problem stopping anytime.
Well if we only want  to enjoy at anytime we can stand and quit,even how much money we still have and losses we have given.
I am afraid that people who verify their bet will take a long time in the gambling games, which we should avoid. If we stay at a gambling place for a long time, the passion for playing gambling will become big, leading us to spend more money.
Because at some point we will surely chase our losses specially if we have tallied them and very frustrating seeing them not coming back in your pocket.
Perhaps, people verify their bet on the unknown or not famous website to know if they can prove that they are provably fair to their members. After they get the result, they can share it with other people, so they can know if they can play on that site or not.
But checking will only take place for a couple of time because gamblers usually wanted a quick flow of their bets and don't want to have more hassles.









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December 12, 2020, 02:28:49 AM
 #235

If we can enjoy gambling games without thinking much about the outcome, we will not have a problem stopping anytime.
Well if we only want  to enjoy at anytime we can stand and quit,even how much money we still have and losses we have given.

The problem will come to us if we think more about the losses that we've got because that can turn us to chase the losses, and we can't quit easily.

I am afraid that people who verify their bet will take a long time in the gambling games, which we should avoid. If we stay at a gambling place for a long time, the passion for playing gambling will become big, leading us to spend more money.
Because at some point we will surely chase our losses specially if we have tallied them and very frustrating seeing them not coming back in your pocket.

That experience will come to us if we play gambling for a long time. Although we enjoy the games, on another side, we feel frustrated about the losses, making us try to chase the losses. Once we think about pursuing the losses, that will become our time to lose more without we realize.

Perhaps, people verify their bet on the unknown or not famous website to know if they can prove that they are provably fair to their members. After they get the result, they can share it with other people, so they can know if they can play on that site or not.
But checking will only take place for a couple of time because gamblers usually wanted a quick flow of their bets and don't want to have more hassles.

Perhaps, that is right. But you know what, the gamblers will have the curiosity to check and make sure that everything is run wells and nothing suspicious. They will try to check again because they don't want to see a cheat by the site.

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December 12, 2020, 06:49:51 AM
 #236

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.
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December 12, 2020, 07:58:44 AM
 #237


Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

Honestly, I'm ok with losing as long as I'm losing because I'm having a bad day, not because my bet is manipulated, I hate the thought that  I lose my money because I found out that the site I'm playing is rigged even a small amount is not good if I am cheated, I am ok losing big bucks as long as I lose it fair and square.

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December 12, 2020, 08:19:45 AM
 #238


Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

Honestly, I'm ok with losing as long as I'm losing because I'm having a bad day, not because my bet is manipulated, I hate the thought that  I lose my money because I found out that the site I'm playing is rigged even a small amount is not good if I am cheated, I am ok losing big bucks as long as I lose it fair and square.
Check the Fairness of each gambling site though we can't really tell unless we make our own observation if how they let people win and lose.

We have same principle as i don't want being cheated ,i would rather lose too much in fair game than losing a penny in cheater.

Check Roobet.Com if you want a Legit and fair gaming.

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December 12, 2020, 10:06:38 AM
 #239


Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

Honestly, I'm ok with losing as long as I'm losing because I'm having a bad day, not because my bet is manipulated, I hate the thought that  I lose my money because I found out that the site I'm playing is rigged even a small amount is not good if I am cheated, I am ok losing big bucks as long as I lose it fair and square.
Check the Fairness of each gambling site though we can't really tell unless we make our own observation if how they let people win and lose.

We have same principle as i don't want being cheated ,i would rather lose too much in fair game than losing a penny in cheater.

Check Roobet.Com if you want a Legit and fair gaming.
There are other few good gambling platform actually and I am seeing few of the gambling sites that are provably fair. Checking of course is an obligation to the gambler but whether we like it or not the casino has the house edge and that will turn their earnings over a period of time as you go along play with it. However, the best part when gambling is not only about winning instead it is also about how you play, get excited and and having fun. This is why it is advisable to every gambler to limit self like betting only the money that can be afforded to lose.
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December 12, 2020, 11:50:44 AM
 #240


There are other few good gambling platform actually and I am seeing few of the gambling sites that are provably fair. Checking of course is an obligation to the gambler but whether we like it or not the casino has the house edge and that will turn their earnings over a period of time as you go along play with it. However, the best part when gambling is not only about winning instead it is also about how you play, get excited and and having fun. This is why it is advisable to every gambler to limit self like betting only the money that can be afforded to lose.
Yeah we must check it ourself about how fair the casino is and what is their reputation status.

Though some times since the casino is popular and being played by more reputable members here,We tend not to check this because the players will tell you how fair they are why being visited and played by gambling enthusiast.
Like Your Signature Betnomi is showing good in gambling area now,same as what mentioned above you Roobet. and many more that i don't want to lay all.
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