Do you verify every bet as a gambler? Provably Fair Guide.

[webtricks]

UPDATE (31/08/20): BTCGOSU has launched a biggest third-party provably fair verifier tool where you can verify bets for over 25 casinos in single page. Check out now: https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/

Provably Fair Script is one of the basic element of online gambling, especially for crypto based casinos. However, most of the gamblers don't give dime about it while some don't even know what is it and how it operates. I started crypto gambling in 2016 and didn't know about Provably Fair for most of my initial gambling days. But believe me in the absence of Provably Fair, you are not gambling, you are just being cheated by the house.

The basic idea of this thread is to share my views on PF script and how to make most out of it. I have spent few weeks developing unique logic for Provably Fair script for upcoming gambling site clubbing it with blockchain technology. While developing it, I visited around 20 casinos and tried their PF script to understand current practice. However, this thread is not about my script but about current practice.

If you are in this section, you probably have heard about Provably Fair script and may be verifying your bets too. But have you ever tried to understand the logic behind it? If not, let me give a brief explanation on how Provably Fair system works.

Different gambling sites use different Provably Fair implementation however the basic idea is to generate a random number based on three factors: client seed, server seed and nonce.

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).
(iii) Site will generate random client seed for you but don't use it. Always choose your own.

Server Seed: It is generated by server. Server will choose random string of random length and convert it to sha256 hash which will provided to you. For example, if server picks 'thisIsRandomSeed' as server seed then this will be provide you: 45006cccc7e44ee0b6c0752469de2fe1ad6bff589fb789bfb60773224cf2cc0a.
Since sha256 is one-way hashing you will know sha256 hash before making bet but you cannot decipher server seed before betting. The site will show you unhashed server seed once you change your seeds. Then you can verify that the sha256 hash of server seed is similar to what was presented to you before bet.

Nonce: In context of Provably Fair, nonce is mostly regarded as the number of times you have made bet with the combination of same client and server seed. For example, if I make two bets with 'ClientSeed' as client seed and 'ServerSeed' as server seed then the result of bet will be generated on the basis of 'ClientSeed+1+ServerSeed' for first bet and 'ClientSeed+2+ServerSeed' for second bet.

Here is graphical illustration of what I just said:

(Some people say my drawings are as good as Picasso's.)

Now coming to how results are driven from these seeds. As I said earlier, different sites use different logic to determine result. However, there is one basic logic which is being used by around 80% of the casinos, notably Fortunejack, PrimeDice, Bitsler etc. This is how it works:

Step 1: First of all let's assume three variables. Server seed = 'ServerSeed', client seed = 'ClientSeed' and nonce = 1. Now we have to use hmac authentication by hashing our variables using sha512 hashing algorithm. Server seed will serve as a secret key to generate hash while client seed and nonce will be used as an input like this: 'ClientSeed-1' or 'client seed - nonce'.

Step 2: So the hash of the above seeds will look like this: 671e7387e26fa724d089521805430866b29f6849ad2928a26e5ed01101f72f57883b972f20f9464 d99ab13c2adcf37bd955863c69697739628d70969adba1ab3

Step 3: Not going into technical term and by simply sticking to layman's language, we have to take first 5 characters of hash i.e. 671e7. Now we have to convert these 5 characters from hex value to integer value which will be: 422375.

Step 4: If the integer value is between 0 and 1million (1,000,000) then it's ok. But if it is more than or equal to 1M then we will use next 5 characters from hash. But since in our case, 422375 is less than 1000000 so this number will determine the result.

Step 5: In this step, we will simply divide the value with 10000 and take the remainder for next step. In our case, 422375 when divided by 10000 will leave 2375 in remainder which will be consider for final step.

Step 6: In this step, we will simply divide the remainder by 100 and this will determine the final result. In our case it will be 23.75. This should match the dice roll. If not then site is most probably cheating you.


Now coming to the most important part. Probably this part is the main reason why I created this thread. Although, the above system is foolproof but site owners can easily fool you if you ain't paying enough attention. So here are the few points you should consider while gambling:

(i) Always copy server seed hash shown to you before betting.
(ii) After bet is complete, create new client seed. Make sure server seed is also changed along with it.
(iii) Once new client seed is created, site will show you unhashed server seed of previous bet. Copy it and convert it to sha256 hash using some third party online tool.
(iv) Match the server seed hash that you copied in step (i) to the one generated in step (iii) and make sure both are exactly same.

Two days ago, I tested my code with few people. I shown them different server seed hash before bet and after bet I kept first 6 characters same, last 3 characters same and few similar characters in the middle. It took just 30-40 seconds for my machine to generate such hash. With more powerful machine, I can speed up the process and create more matching characters. To my surprise, none of the tester noticed that they were shown different server hash before and after bet. It is human tendency that they only consider few letters (probably starting and ending ones) when presented random word like hexadecimal hash. So with bare eyes, no one was able to notice the difference. So be safe and make sure you verify every bet you make. Being a coding enthusiast, I can assure you that it is very much possible that house can easily manipulate results without player even noticing.

Another thing you can do is to use cross-casinos verification. For example, Fortunejack and Bitsler use same script, you can verify your fortunejack bets using bitsler's verification script.

[1715451647]

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[1715451647]

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[Twentyonepaylots]

Provably Fair Script is one of the basic element of online gambling, especially for crypto based casinos. However, most of the gamblers don't give dime about it while some don't even know what is it and how it operates. I started crypto gambling in 2016 and didn't know about Provably Fair for most of my initial gambling days. But believe me in the absence of Provably Fair, you are not gambling, you are just being cheated by the house.

The basic idea of this thread is to share my views on PF script and how to make most out of it. I have spent few weeks developing unique logic for Provably Fair script for upcoming gambling site clubbing it with blockchain technology. While developing it, I visited around 20 casinos and tried their PF script to understand current practice. However, this thread is not about my script but about current practice.

If you are in this section, you probably have heard about Provably Fair script and may be verifying your bets too. But have you ever tried to understand the logic behind it? If not, let me give a brief explanation on how Provably Fair system works.

Different gambling sites use different Provably Fair implementation however the basic idea is to generate a random number based on three factors: client seed, server seed and nonce.

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).
(iii) Site will generate random client seed for you but don't use it. Always choose your own.

Server Seed: It is generated by server. Server will choose random string of random length and convert it to sha256 hash which will provided to you. For example, if server picks 'thisIsRandomSeed' as server seed then this will be provide you: 45006cccc7e44ee0b6c0752469de2fe1ad6bff589fb789bfb60773224cf2cc0a.
Since sha256 is one-way hashing you will know sha256 hash before making bet but you cannot decipher server seed before betting. The site will show you unhashed server seed once you change your seeds. Then you can verify that the sha256 hash of server seed is similar to what was presented to you before bet.

Nonce: In context of Provably Fair, nonce is mostly regarded as the number of times you have made bet with the combination of same client and server seed. For example, if I make two bets with 'ClientSeed' as client seed and 'ServerSeed' as server seed then the result of bet will be generated on the basis of 'ClientSeed+1+ServerSeed' for first bet and 'ClientSeed+2+ServerSeed' for second bet.

Here is graphical illustration of what I just said:

(Some people say my drawings are as good as Picasso's.)

Now coming to how results are driven from these seeds. As I said earlier, different sites use different logic to determine result. However, there is one basic logic which is being used by around 80% of the casinos, notably Fortunejack, PrimeDice, Bitsler etc. This is how it works:

Step 1: First of all let's assume three variables. Server seed = 'ServerSeed', client seed = 'ClientSeed' and nonce = 1. Now we have to use hmac authentication by hashing our variables using sha512 hashing algorithm. Server seed will serve as a secret key to generate hash while client seed and nonce will be used as an input like this: 'ClientSeed-1' or 'client seed - nonce'.

Step 2: So the hash of the above seeds will look like this: 671e7387e26fa724d089521805430866b29f6849ad2928a26e5ed01101f72f57883b972f20f9464 d99ab13c2adcf37bd955863c69697739628d70969adba1ab3

Step 3: Not going into technical term and by simply sticking to layman's language, we have to take first 5 characters of hash i.e. 671e7. Now we have to convert these 5 characters from hex value to integer value which will be: 422375.

Step 4: If the integer value is between 0 and 1million (1,000,000) then it's ok. But if it is more than or equal to 1M then we will use next 5 characters from hash. But since in our case, 422375 is less than 1000000 so this number will determine the result.

Step 5: In this step, we will simply divide the value with 10000 and take the remainder for next step. In our case, 422375 when divided by 10000 will leave 2375 in remainder which will be consider for final step.

Step 6: In this step, we will simply divide the remainder by 100 and this will determine the final result. In our case it will be 23.75. This should match the dice roll. If not then site is most probably cheating you.


Now coming to the most important part. Probably this part is the main reason why I created this thread. Although, the above system is foolproof but site owners can easily fool you if you ain't paying enough attention. So here are the few points you should consider while gambling:

(i) Always copy server seed hash shown to you before betting.
(ii) After bet is complete, create new client seed. Make sure server seed is also changed along with it.
(iii) Once new client seed is created, site will show you unhashed server seed of previous bet. Copy it and convert it to sha256 hash using some third party online tool.
(iv) Match the server seed hash that you copied in step (i) to the one generated in step (iii) and make sure both are exactly same.

Two days ago, I tested my code with few people. I shown them different server seed hash before bet and after bet I kept first 6 characters same, last 3 characters same and few similar characters in the middle. It took just 30-40 seconds for my machine to generate such hash. With more powerful machine, I can speed up the process and create more matching characters. To my surprise, none of the tester noticed that they were shown different server hash before and after bet. It is human tendency that they only consider few letters (probably starting and ending ones) when presented random word like hexadecimal hash. So with bare eyes, no one was able to notice the difference. So be safe and make sure you verify every bet you make. Being a coding enthusiast, I can assure you that it is very much possible that house can easily manipulate results without player even noticing.

Another thing you can do is to use cross-casinos verification. For example, Fortunejack and Bitsler use same script, you can verify your fortunejack bets using bitsler's verification script.

I have been playing in an online betting website for the past couple of weeks but still have not won even a single time. It made me suspect that the site is rigged and that unless their bots say so, we wouldn't be able to get profits from them. I'll try to use your procedures just to confirm my claim as if it is true then they are fooling hundreds of thousands of gamblers rihht now to a game we virtually have no way or chance at winning. So I thank you for this. Help like these should be much readily available in this channel as gambling is the riskiest thing you could do with bitcoin.

[webtricks]

~~

I have been playing in an online betting website for the past couple of weeks but still have not won even a single time. It made me suspect that the site is rigged and that unless their bots say so, we wouldn't be able to get profits from them. I'll try to use your procedures just to confirm my claim as if it is true then they are fooling hundreds of thousands of gamblers rihht now to a game we virtually have no way or chance at winning. So I thank you for this. Help like these should be much readily available in this channel as gambling is the riskiest thing you could do with bitcoin.

Your experience surely sounding fishy. I would recommend you to check the fairness of site.

I have discovered another way a gambling site can scam players. Under this, a site has a special code which sets the checkbox false if player has less than say, 100 bets. But as soon as player plays more than that, code checks if player has ever changed his client seed or not. If no, this means player never checked the fairness of game and doesn't care about provably fair at all. In that case, code changes the status of checkbox to true. Then provably fair code checks if checkbox is true/false. If true then fake seed hash is shown to player and game is rigged.

[iamsheikhadil]

Thanks for sharing this. I wouldn't name a site where I have played in past in like 2016 where I was losing 50s of bets in a row at 50% win chance and after a few days I came to know how the site was changing the client seed itself and how I was being manipulated and I didn't play there anymore. Truly, anything can be done these days!

[dunfida]

~snip~

A helpful guide.

Pretty sure that 80%-90% of gamblers or people here doesnt even know on how Provably fair works.
So this post is a good read up for people to know on how to check the fairness of a certain site.
People just tend to stick out with known or popular ones and treat it up to be fair along the way. 

[nakamura12]

Thanks for sharing this. I wouldn't name a site where I have played in past in like 2016 where I was losing 50s of bets in a row at 50% win chance and after a few days I came to know how the site was changing the client seed itself and how I was being manipulated and I didn't play there anymore. Truly, anything can be done these days!

That is why gamblers should always check the site's fairness if it really what the site claim. Mostly, the legit gambling sites is not rigged and it's completely random that is why it is gambling. If it is not random and my opinion about it is that it's not a gambling site but a scam scheme. If it is rigged the things that will happen to gamblers is mostly lose and seldomly wins.

[jademaxsuy]

~snip~

A helpful guide.

Pretty sure that 80%-90% of gamblers or people here doesnt even know on how Provably fair works.
So this post is a good read up for people to know on how to check the fairness of a certain site.
People just tend to stick out with known or popular ones and treat it up to be fair along the way. 

It's true that most gamblers didn't know how provably fair works. It is very important that gamblers should know how to check the fairness of the game. This thread will help gamblers know how to verify if the game is really provable fair or rigged. Knowing how to verify is very useful so that gamblers will know what site to stay away.

[khaled0111]

I always copy the hash of the server seed and provide my custom client seed to avoid any manipulation. However,I don't check all the results, only when I have doubts using third party tools (if you don't trust the casino then you should not trust their verification scrypt).

[Lakai01]

(if you don't trust the casino then you should not trust their verification scrypt).

That is the most important part in my opinion. If you use a sites own script to verify the fairness of the site itself you just waste your time. The script wont prove the site as "unfair" in any circumstances

[skarais]

~~~

I hope your experiences and observations over the past few weeks can open your eyes to anyone who gamblers. So far not many people realize that the site can be manipulated and unfair to players and your explanation really helps them find out more about PF scripts on gambling sites. I will immediately practice what you have just explained about PF and it is true that without PF we are not said to gamble but we are cheated.

[imstillthebest]

thanks for the effort of putting this up  but may i know if what site is it that gives incorrect verification  . thats shady then , but do you already reported them  ?  this is bad if its happening on reputable casinos because this can damage thier reputation  but by the way  , your given points above are correct  . about changing client seed  , many gamblers believe on it that changing it will give miracles but for me i dont believe on it  . i never change my seed but i still feel that the results are the same  . i dont verify my bets because i dont have a doubt on a gambling site that im playing with  but i check it once though and the result match  .

[swogerino]

This is a great topic and you have done an excellent job in breaking it down for even non tech users to easily understand the concept.I think the users now as you say should be more careful and they should report to the forum more specifically to this thread what they think as anomalies found on their gambling website or platform.
Sure this will help a lot in this regard.

[leea-1334]

Thank you for the thread. To be honest I am not 100% sure of how to check for provably fair on every site I own some money at but the one I play the most I do check, and you are right, I think most of us actually do not always regularly check but we should. We owe it to ourselves and the community,,, especially when we get losing bets;) or rare results. Hard to check everything on autobet, maybe there should be a system to do it easily.

[tbterryboy]

I'm not believing in to probably fair system because in real life there are less possibility for continue losing streak but in almost all the to gambling houses continue losing streaks are happening most commonly. This makes we need much more improvements/developments to fine-tune so that those provably fair mechanism will be actually fair for all of us.

Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
I believe gambling houses must work on simplifying these things so that even non-computer literature people also will be able to verify them with just one click.

[seoincorporation]

If we understand the math and crypto behind the provably fair engine, then we can trust the casino. If something doesn't look fine, then we show stay away from it.

The last provably fair engine i read about was the one of Luckybit. They use a client seed, server seed, and a seed_nonce... Since we have control of the 3 factors, then we can trust their engine.

[khaled0111]

Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.

OP gave an example on how to verify the results you got. It doesn't require a lot of knowledge and you are not going to do anything manually. Just use a third party website to give you the seeds hash or use the verification scrypt of another casino that has the same provably fair algorithm.

[Twinkledoe]

Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.

OP gave an example on how to verify the results you got. It doesn't require a lot of knowledge and you are not going to do anything manually. Just use a third party website to give you the seeds hash or use the verification scrypt of another casino that has the same provably fair algorithm.

Or most of the legit casino sites has basic tutorial on how to verify their provably fair system. And if you are still in doubt, you can double check the procedure with other popular gambling sites because verifying your results has basically straightforward steps and almost the same with every casino. Though I am not really checking every bet of mine, but if I have bet larger than my normal bet, I see to it that I checked its provable fairness afterwards. Just a random check would make you feel that you are safe with your casino site.

[serjent05]

Great works on defining how Provably Fair works.  As a player who uses auto roll function, I seldom check the hashes of both client, server seed and its nonce.  All that goes in me is trust in the site I am playing with.   And if ever I got a doubt on the result,( with the thousands of bets done on an auto roll, it will be a waste of time verifying the hashes of each roll,) so I just pick a random hash and verify it and done.

[milewilda]

Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.

OP gave an example on how to verify the results you got. It doesn't require a lot of knowledge and you are not going to do anything manually. Just use a third party website to give you the seeds hash or use the verification scrypt of another casino that has the same provably fair algorithm.

Or most of the legit casino sites has basic tutorial on how to verify their provably fair system. And if you are still in doubt, you can double check the procedure with other popular gambling sites because verifying your results has basically straightforward steps and almost the same with every casino. Though I am not really checking every bet of mine, but if I have bet larger than my normal bet, I see to it that I checked its provable fairness afterwards. Just a random check would make you feel that you are safe with your casino site.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf6ZxDXvU7o
Im not affiliated with the site but just for the purpose on showing off on screen on how to verify bets.It doesnt really require technical knowledge though yet following on how
to verify bets isnt really that hard.
Some people or players are really keen on checking out provably fairness but on my side, i do play on site which had been played out by the majority.

[michellee]

I am not sure if I can check or verify the gambling site from the OP guide as I am only playing gambling on a random day, and I don't need to check to details. I don't know much about the provable system, but that is a good guide that will be useful for someone who wants to verify by themselves. However, I think the provable system itself is fair for every member, and I don't think that the reputable gambling site will cheat their members because that will have a bad effect on the website itself.

[Ailmand]

I my self had played several times online but honestly, I don't know how to verify hashes and how provably fair works since I am not a person who is knowledgeable technically. The guides and information provided by OP is informative and useful to verify the provably fair system of the platform you are frequently using. Thank you for sharing.

[webtricks]

thanks for the effort of putting this up  but may i know if what site is it that gives incorrect verification  . thats shady then , but do you already reported them  ?  this is bad if its happening on reputable casinos because this can damage thier reputation.

Not any particular site. I was talking to an experienced dev the other day when he told me about the possibility of manipulating seeds based upon whether user changes his client seeds or not. Since the code is written in back-end it is not easy to find out which site is cheating or not. Then I tried writing the code to do so and yes, it is possible to manipulate the seeds. However, my code have some front-end trails which when looked carefully show that something fishy going on. But I am pretty sure that someone more experienced coder than me can mutate front-end code in the way that it might become almost impossible to find out that your front-end seeds are being manipulated from back-end.

Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
I believe gambling houses must work on simplifying these things so that even non-computer literature people also will be able to verify them with just one click.

Well, you don't have to do everything on your own. Almost every gambling site provides the way to verify your bets. The site will either provide you a form to fill your seeds and display the result or provide you the bare code which you can simply paste in Notepad, edit your seeds in code and save the file with .html extension. Then you just have to open that file in browser to display your result.

Also, I am planing to make a site where I will review the provably fair script of most of the gambling sites and provide the form for users to verify their bets independently for each site. But since it is huge work to do, I cannot promise the date. Maybe will create in 2 months or so.


And lastly, I would like to thank everyone who liked and appreciated the thread. I think I could make few changes in OP to make this thread more productive. Will do that in free time.

[carlfebz2]

I am not sure if I can check or verify the gambling site from the OP guide as I am only playing gambling on a random day, and I don't need to check to details. I don't know much about the provable system, but that is a good guide that will be useful for someone who wants to verify by themselves. However, I think the provable system itself is fair for every member, and I don't think that the reputable gambling site will cheat their members because that will have a bad effect on the website itself.

Checking provably fairness would really be useful when checking out new gambling sites out there because we wont able to know if we dont verify it and
to those reputable or known sites , they do already passed up such test thats why they do able to become big because they've proven out that their games
are fair or not rigged.This is actually helpful for those people who are really serious on checking out a site if its fair or not but most of the time
they dont really care to verify anything if they do saw that lots of people playing on such place.

[Saint-loup]

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).

Could you elaborate on this statement please? Why it's so important to do that?
Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).

[2double0]

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).

Could you elaborate on this statement please? Why it's so important to do that?
Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).

If your preferred gambling website is rigged already, then you will always lose and there is nothing like a losing server seed. New seed opens up your chances on winning more bets with it during a new session 'if you don't consider changing it at every single bet' , but if you start losing all of a sudden then just drop the site and leave because even a new seed will not help and you will lose continuously as the system catches that you are winning and the server seed also has some areas where its provided hash doesn't meet your expected criteria because of your client seed and you start losing all your bets. Even trying with a new seed will only make you win just 3-5 bets and the same story will start repeating itself ahead.

[leowonderful]

Great guide for those who are inexperienced with provably fair systems! I agree that they can be pretty complex to understand and it's a hassle to check every bet to see if it's legit, but someone's gotta do it in order to catch any inconsistencies in casinos as there's always a chance that they could be rigging just a select number of bets, not just with newer sites but more established ones as well. The cross-platform checking was something I wasn't aware existed, because I actually didn't know some sites shared these scripts. Is there anything major to look for that suggests two sites have the same provably fair scripts?

[Saint-loup]

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).

Could you elaborate on this statement please? Why it's so important to do that?
Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).

If your preferred gambling website is rigged already, then you will always lose and there is nothing like a losing server seed. New seed opens up your chances on winning more bets with it during a new session 'if you don't consider changing it at every single bet' , but if you start losing all of a sudden then just drop the site and leave because even a new seed will not help and you will lose continuously as the system catches that you are winning and the server seed also has some areas where its provided hash doesn't meet your expected criteria because of your client seed and you start losing all your bets. Even trying with a new seed will only make you win just 3-5 bets and the same story will start repeating itself ahead.

I don't understand how it could work like that except if the seeds are fake ... but you can spot that by checking them after the roll.
The house doesn't know what client seed you will choose/create when it generates its own, so it can't generate a losing roll...  

[shoreno]

Great guide for those who are inexperienced with provably fair systems! I agree that they can be pretty complex to understand and it's a hassle to check every bet to see if it's legit, but someone's gotta do it in order to catch any inconsistencies in casinos as there's always a chance that they could be rigging just a select number of bets, not just with newer sites but more established ones as well. The cross-platform checking was something I wasn't aware existed, because I actually didn't know some sites shared these scripts. Is there anything major to look for that suggests two sites have the same provably fair scripts?

ineed its a hassel to check often  but it would only be beneficial to some that bet a few big bets and you could be right , what if some of the bets are rigged and they wont notice it because they are busy with our play  but once they catch it and verify that is fake  , that would be a big issue to them  as it can scratch their crediility  especially if they are already established .  and yes also , alot of sites have the same scripts  ,   this can be seen obviously  . there are some that are owned by the same owner  but i dont think its possible to cross verify especially if games are different  

[michellee]

I am not sure if I can check or verify the gambling site from the OP guide as I am only playing gambling on a random day, and I don't need to check to details. I don't know much about the provable system, but that is a good guide that will be useful for someone who wants to verify by themselves. However, I think the provable system itself is fair for every member, and I don't think that the reputable gambling site will cheat their members because that will have a bad effect on the website itself.

Checking provably fairness would really be useful when checking out new gambling sites out there because we wont able to know if we dont verify it and
to those reputable or known sites , they do already passed up such test thats why they do able to become big because they've proven out that their games
are fair or not rigged.This is actually helpful for those people who are really serious on checking out a site if its fair or not but most of the time
they dont really care to verify anything if they do saw that lots of people playing on such place.

But for people who don't know about the system, and they only want to test the gambling site and playing gambling, they will not care about that. They will try to search and find out if that gambling site can be trusted or not so they can deposit more money to play gambling games. I think some people who have skills to verify that gambling site will reveal it to the public to help people know if that site really has a fair system or not.

[webtricks]

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).

Could you elaborate on this statement please? Why it's so important to do that?
Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).

Yes, house can detect the client seed. This is how the house can detect your client seed:

Bet 1: I used 'myFavSeed' as my client seed. After the bet, I clicked 'new seed' and site changed server seed plus generated new client seed for me, say 'dgbeigeinwo35353'.

Bet 2: But since I love my client seed, I again changed client seed to 'myFavSeed' and played the bet. After second bet, I once again generated new seeds to verify my second bet.

Everything will go well up till here. Since server seed is generated prior to client seed, house have no way to cheat you. But here comes the catch. Suppose house is maintaining the record of every client seed that you verified like this:

User.verifiedClientSeeds = ['myFavSeed', 'myFavSeed'];

Now house can check if client seed used in first bet is same as the second, if true then house will use 'myFavSeed' as dummy client seed and generate a server seed for a specific result. This server seed's hash will be shown to you for third bet.

If you once again choose 'myFavSeed' as your client seed, the result will be same as what house decided before game. However, in games like dice this may not be very advantageous for house. House may fix that the result will be 92.68 but still have no control over Roll over/Roll under which user may choose arbitrarily. But this thing can be disastrous in case of auto bet or if house even maintains the record of your betting habits. For example, if I picked roll over 50.5 four times whereas picked roll under 49.5 eleven times. Then house can draw a trend that I like to pick roll under 49.5 so it will present me server seed such that result generated with that server seed and myFavSeed as client seed will be above 49.5.

[MWesterweele]

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).

Could you elaborate on this statement please? Why it's so important to do that?
Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).

Yes, house can detect the client seed. This is how the house can detect your client seed:

Bet 1: I used 'myFavSeed' as my client seed. After the bet, I clicked 'new seed' and site changed server seed plus generated new client seed for me, say 'dgbeigeinwo35353'.

Bet 2: But since I love my client seed, I again changed client seed to 'myFavSeed' and played the bet. After second bet, I once again generated new seeds to verify my second bet.

Everything will go well up till here. Since server seed is generated prior to client seed, house have no way to cheat you. But here comes the catch. Suppose house is maintaining the record of every client seed that you verified like this:

User.verifiedClientSeeds = ['myFavSeed', 'myFavSeed'];

Now house can check if client seed used in first bet is same as the second, if true then house will use 'myFavSeed' as dummy client seed and generate a server seed for a specific result. This server seed's hash will be shown to you for third bet.

If you once again choose 'myFavSeed' as your client seed, the result will be same as what house decided before game. However, in games like dice this may not be very advantageous for house. House may fix that the result will be 92.68 but still have no control over Roll over/Roll under which user may choose arbitrarily. But this thing can be disastrous in case of auto bet or if house even maintains the record of your betting habits. For example, if I picked roll over 50.5 four times whereas picked roll under 49.5 eleven times. Then house can draw a trend that I like to pick roll under 49.5 so it will present me server seed such that result generated with that server seed and myFavSeed as client seed will be above 49.5.

As player everytime I bet I always verify to less the loses, also its good to know your betting games first before you place your bet to know if it can trusted or worth it because there are still some betting site give you nothing. Some gamblers are to smart in betting in gambling because they knew how to do proper way in doing thing.

[DoublerHunter]

It is a helpful thread of yours and deserves to be on the top of this board, it will definitely help those who did not understand very well how to verify the provably fair system in an online gambling platform. Technically, this is really good at checking a gambling platform that the legit one, most probably those who are a newly launched gambling site. Until now I am trying to understand very well the content of your post because there some lines I did not familiar with.

[naikturun]

so far no, mostly i came to dice casino such as primedice or 999dice or fortunejack dice for autobet, double bet when lose then back to the start when win. or double bet when you win then back to the general bet when u lose.
even though its a classic,somehow its still work.

[fullhdpixel]

-snip

ineed its a hassel to check often  but it would only be beneficial to some that bet a few big bets and you could be right , what if some of the bets are rigged and they wont notice it because they are busy with our play  but once they catch it and verify that is fake  , that would be a big issue to them  as it can scratch their crediility  especially if they are already established .  and yes also , alot of sites have the same scripts  ,   this can be seen obviously  . there are some that are owned by the same owner  but i dont think its possible to cross verify especially if games are different  

A lot of people actually think like you and make bets but let me clarify how casinos can manipulate rolls without even being caught ever.

1- You determine the client seed.
2- Server seed is always in the control of the casino and rightly so.

Now if you are not changing or checking client seed every bet then the casino can provide a server seed that will be against your bet for example you are doing all bets higher than 49.5 and the casino notices it, they see that the client seed hasn't been changed and they can easily give a server seed that would generate result lower than 49.5 always.
I am not a technical person but really understood it much better after the explanation by webtricks so thank you again!

[carlfebz2]

I am not sure if I can check or verify the gambling site from the OP guide as I am only playing gambling on a random day, and I don't need to check to details. I don't know much about the provable system, but that is a good guide that will be useful for someone who wants to verify by themselves. However, I think the provable system itself is fair for every member, and I don't think that the reputable gambling site will cheat their members because that will have a bad effect on the website itself.

Checking provably fairness would really be useful when checking out new gambling sites out there because we wont able to know if we dont verify it and
to those reputable or known sites , they do already passed up such test thats why they do able to become big because they've proven out that their games
are fair or not rigged.This is actually helpful for those people who are really serious on checking out a site if its fair or not but most of the time
they dont really care to verify anything if they do saw that lots of people playing on such place.

But for people who don't know about the system, and they only want to test the gambling site and playing gambling, they will not care about that. They will try to search and find out if that gambling site can be trusted or not so they can deposit more money to play gambling games. I think some people who have skills to verify that gambling site will reveal it to the public to help people know if that site really has a fair system or not.

This is a sure thing because gambling sites reputation wont be known if gambler or players wont test it out and as said there are really people who do really love to test those new platforms.

Im a kind of person that do observe first before making any step or deposits on a site thats why thanks to those people who do test the site and do tell their observation and conclusion.

When it comes on checking provably fair then you can already know and verify if others to confirm it.

[coinfinger]

I my self had played several times online but honestly, I don't know how to verify hashes and how provably fair works since I am not a person who is knowledgeable technically. The guides and information provided by OP is informative and useful to verify the provably fair system of the platform you are frequently using. Thank you for sharing.

I agree that the information provided by OP is indeed quite nice and easy to understand for someone who isn't into encrypting and private keys field.

Personally, I know how to verify bets and I sometimes do when I bet big but most of the times when I am betting I do that at reputed sites and the thought that comes to my mind is "The casino will not turn scam for my 0.02 bitcoins" and hence I never care enough to verify my bets. But I really feel that people should change client seed time to time because if the client seed is random it can be seen by the system, no? So better we put new client seed every bet we make.

[Saint-loup]

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).

Could you elaborate on this statement please? Why it's so important to do that?
Do you think the house program will detect you are always using the same seed and will create a losing server seed for it or it has nothing to do with that? Thank you very much to explain me what you mean (or someone else here).

Yes, house can detect the client seed. This is how the house can detect your client seed:

Bet 1: I used 'myFavSeed' as my client seed. After the bet, I clicked 'new seed' and site changed server seed plus generated new client seed for me, say 'dgbeigeinwo35353'.

Bet 2: But since I love my client seed, I again changed client seed to 'myFavSeed' and played the bet. After second bet, I once again generated new seeds to verify my second bet.

Everything will go well up till here. Since server seed is generated prior to client seed, house have no way to cheat you. But here comes the catch. Suppose house is maintaining the record of every client seed that you verified like this:

User.verifiedClientSeeds = ['myFavSeed', 'myFavSeed'];

Now house can check if client seed used in first bet is same as the second, if true then house will use 'myFavSeed' as dummy client seed and generate a server seed for a specific result. This server seed's hash will be shown to you for third bet.

If you once again choose 'myFavSeed' as your client seed, the result will be same as what house decided before game. However, in games like dice this may not be very advantageous for house. House may fix that the result will be 92.68 but still have no control over Roll over/Roll under which user may choose arbitrarily. But this thing can be disastrous in case of auto bet or if house even maintains the record of your betting habits. For example, if I picked roll over 50.5 four times whereas picked roll under 49.5 eleven times. Then house can draw a trend that I like to pick roll under 49.5 so it will present me server seed such that result generated with that server seed and myFavSeed as client seed will be above 49.5.

Yes I agree with you. But you shouldn't forget that a hash function is usually used to generate the roll number, for example on freebitco.in a HMAC-SHA512 function is used. So it's not possible to calculate the seed from a roll number.
The only solution is to make several tries until you find the good number or at least a number in the good range.
But when you use an auto-bet, it's very fast, some I'm not sure the house would have enough time to compute several seeds until it founds a good one...

Two strings are created :
STRING1 = "[NONCE]:[SERVER SEED]:[NONCE]"
STRING2 = "[NONCE]:[CLIENT SEED]:[NONCE]"
Then HMAC-SHA512 is used to hash STRING1 with STRING2 as the secret key, giving us a 128 character hex string.
The first 8 characters of the hex string are taken and converted to a decimal.
This decimal is then divided by 429496.7295 and rounded off to the nearest whole number.
This whole number is used as your roll, with the maximum possible value being 10,000.

[wozzek23]

For once please read the excellent post made by OP and I sincerely appreciate the efforts made there.

so far no, mostly i came to dice casino such as primedice or 999dice or fortunejack dice for autobet, double bet when lose then back to the start when win. or double bet when you win then back to the general bet when u lose.
even though its a classic,somehow its still work.

The talk going on is not about betting strategy but it is about whether a gambler is aware of how provably fair works and if they are aware then do they actually verify the bets and randomize the client seeds to make sure the bet result is actually random?

I feel like no one would be verifying each bet and the question raised is genuine because the gambling website can easily manipulate the results if you do not change client seed because they generate the server seed and if you don't change client seed that gives them full control over result.

[webtricks]

~~snip

Yes I agree with you. But you shouldn't forget that a hash function is usually used to generate the roll number, for example on freebitco.in a HMAC-SHA512 function is used. So it's not possible to calculate the seed from a roll number.
The only solution is to make several tries until you find the good number or at least a number in the good range.
But when you use an auto-bet, it's very fast, some I'm not sure the house would have enough time to compute several seeds until it founds a good one...

You are seriously undermining the power of computer here. I think you are confusing the process with Proof of Work system used in Bitcoin mining. Under PoW, we try the combination of block header with various hexadecimal numbers (nonce) to find a hash whose value is less than the network target. But in case of provably fair, we simply converting concatenated seeds into hash using HMAC-SHA512 algo. It will literally take just fraction of milliseconds to do so.

Now if we want to manipulate result, it is very easy. You are right, since the SHA512 is one-way hashing algorithm we cannot do reverse calculation (i.e. deciding client seed from roll number), so we have to use brute forcing. But since we are using brute forcing for two way result (either above 50.5 or below 49.5), you will hit the right hash in probably first attempt, if not then maybe second, third or fourth. I don't think it will take more than 5 attempts ever (unless you are so unlucky ). Now calculate the time of doing so:

(fraction of milliseconds)*5 = still fraction of milliseconds


Or in other words, it will literally take no time to generate manipulated seed.

Two strings are created :
STRING1 = "[NONCE]:[SERVER SEED]:[NONCE]"
STRING2 = "[NONCE]:[CLIENT SEED]:[NONCE]"
Then HMAC-SHA512 is used to hash STRING1 with STRING2 as the secret key, giving us a 128 character hex string.
The first 8 characters of the hex string are taken and converted to a decimal.
This decimal is then divided by 429496.7295 and rounded off to the nearest whole number.
This whole number is used as your roll, with the maximum possible value being 10,000.

I just tried this code on my system and hashes were generated at the rate of 132K per second. So every second I have around 66K server seeds to manipulate the result in my favour.

[khaled0111]

Also, I am planing to make a site where I will review the provably fair script of most of the gambling sites and provide the form for users to verify their bets independently for each site. But since it is huge work to do, I cannot promise the date. Maybe will create in 2 months or so.

great idea. It's better to check games results using a private tool which is not dependent on the casino.
I found this website and thought it would help you:
https://dicesites.com/
You can improve it and add more casinos.
Took it from here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5150219.0

[Saint-loup]

[...]
Now if we want to manipulate result, it is very easy. You are right, since the SHA512 is one-way hashing algorithm we cannot do reverse calculation (i.e. deciding client seed from roll number), so we have to use brute forcing. But since we are using brute forcing for two way result (either above 50.5 or below 49.5), you will hit the right hash in probably first attempt, if not then maybe second, third or fourth. I don't think it will take more than 5 attempts ever (unless you are so unlucky ). Now calculate the time of doing so:

(fraction of milliseconds)*5 = still fraction of milliseconds


Or in other words, it will literally take no time to generate manipulated seed.

Two strings are created :
STRING1 = "[NONCE]:[SERVER SEED]:[NONCE]"
STRING2 = "[NONCE]:[CLIENT SEED]:[NONCE]"
Then HMAC-SHA512 is used to hash STRING1 with STRING2 as the secret key, giving us a 128 character hex string.
The first 8 characters of the hex string are taken and converted to a decimal.
This decimal is then divided by 429496.7295 and rounded off to the nearest whole number.
This whole number is used as your roll, with the maximum possible value being 10,000.

I just tried this code on my system and hashes were generated at the rate of 132K per second. So every second I have around 66K server seeds to manipulate the result in my favour.

Very interesting datas thank you for this test. I thought HMAC-SHA512 was way more time consuming than that.
We shouldn't forget that several users are playing at the same time and freebitco.in is offering gambles until 94% wining chances.
It means the house has to found one of the 6% losing roll number to cheat the player in this case. But I think they still could handle that.

[khaled0111]

I thought HMAC-SHA512 was way more time consuming than that.

SHA512 hash is longer than a sha256 hash (64 bytes, 32 bytes respectively). However, the speed of generating hashes depends on the used machine: SHA512 hashes are generated faster than sha256 when using a 64-bit machine.

sorry for going off-topic

[Saint-loup]

I thought HMAC-SHA512 was way more time consuming than that.

SHA512 hash is longer than a sha256 hash (64 bytes, 32 bytes respectively). However, the speed of generating hashes depends on the used machine: SHA512 hashes are generated faster than sha256 when using a 64-bit machine.

sorry for going off-topic

"sorry for going off-topic" this is the first time I read that in this section   but I don't think it's off-topic at all.
What do you mean? On a 64-bit machine it's faster to generate SHA512 hashes than SHA256 ones?  
Do you have an explanation for that? or a link explaining this strange phenomenon?

[mbakruroh]

Mostly I agree with your post, but in front we also need to understand " provably " it self. There is no game like that, all features using bot and monopoly by system, even a gambler win million the site still get billion from lost gambler. Gambling is game for fun and people misunderstanding about the purposes. Use it to become rich is worst and find favorite player from gambling world will make you stuck in rich " imagination ".

[webtricks]

Mostly I agree with your post, but in front we also need to understand " provably " it self. There is no game like that, all features using bot and monopoly by system, even a gambler win million the site still get billion from lost gambler. Gambling is game for fun and people misunderstanding about the purposes. Use it to become rich is worst and find favorite player from gambling world will make you stuck in rich " imagination ".

You are absolutely right. Humans have common tendency of greed. They may win one or two times but their greed will drive them to bet more and more and in the end, they lose everything. Generally there are two factors which help fair gambling sites to earn:

(i) House Edge: Suppose a site have house edge of 2% then among 100 bets, roughly 51 will go in the favor of casino while 49 will go in the favor of players. So if each bet worth $100 then casino will make $200 per $10K which are wagered on the site. However, we notice that casinos have much higher profits than 2%. That's because of second factor.

(ii) Players Greed: Even though 49 out of 100 bets go in the favor of players but greed drive players to bet more and more. Suppose I start with $100 and win two games in the row. Now I have $300. But I won't stop here, I will gamble more and it just needed one bet to turn the table. Suppose I increased my bet amount to $150 for third bet and lost! This will further provoke me to go all in for the fourth. And what if I lose the 4th bet? As per the first factor, 2 bets are won by player and 2 are won by house so profit shall be nil. However, greed factor made player to bet everything and lose. Thus house will make the profit of $100 in the end. This scenario happens with 80% players and that's why gambling in profitable business from house's point-of-view even with low house edge.

[webtricks]

Bump!

[Danydee]

(i) Always copy server seed hash shown to you before betting.
(ii) After bet is complete, create new client seed. Make sure server seed is also changed along with it.
(iii) Once new client seed is created, site will show you unhashed server seed of previous bet. Copy it and convert it to sha256 hash using some third party online tool.
(iv) Match the server seed hash that you copied in step (i) to the one generated in step (iii) and make sure both are exactly same.

 For that the most suitable could a little automated tool that do that, installed as extension on your browser ...  I don't see myself doing all these steps when placing every bet.. !

 It should also check for if there's not hidden script that steal the client seed
 

[Casdinyard]

This was really an interesting information and genuinely new specially for me that have been playing on gambling sites for quite sometime. It is new for me to discover about this Provably Fair script and as a gambler, it is important for me to always do check on my bets that is why I am just playing with small bets so it will be just low risk and low chance of losing money. It was just so nice that the OP have exerted such an effort to study how different Provably Fair scripts from different gambling sites works and notice the difference as a coding enthusiast. It is really amazing to know about this fresh information for me because indeed that if you do not know anything about it, you are not really playing bets but just getting into the flow of the house edge of the gambling site itself. Though the information is really technical and seems hard for many to understand, reading the information stated by the OP is worth a time and really informative.

[Sadlife]

Would be nice if there is an online tool that automates the checking of seed hash if it has change while betting because to me, manually copying hash seed in every bet is a bit an hassle it would render my gambling experience unenjoyable. Hope you could also develop a GUI plugin for these kinds of problems and avoid gambling sites exploiting the PF feature.

[ShowOff]

Would be nice if there is an online tool that automates the checking of seed hash if it has change while betting because to me, manually copying hash seed in every bet is a bit an hassle it would render my gambling experience unenjoyable. -snip-

Agree with you.

Some gambler may assume that betting on reputable and trusted gambling site does not require verification of the bet they play because of the reputation held by the site. But all gambler must verify this bet because this is the best way to find out how fair this site is for gambler.

Manipulation on gambling site may have been reported very often by many people and verifying bet will be an important thing to do. Maybe you and I also feel the same about betting verification, this will take time because it has to be done manually and make my gambling experience no longer fun. But to get justice when betting then it is certainly more useful because it is not good to ignore even the slightest thing if it is related to fairness which will affect our bet.

Previously I also never thought that verifying bet was important before starting a bet, but now I think its mandatory. Gambling sites often make their player paranoid for reason of justice which are always a hot topic of conversation. Just saying "we are a fair site" I dont think it would have been trusted if it hadnt been tested.


OP I want to know a few game that we should consider to verify the bet, do I have to verify each roll of the dice or do I only have to do it a few time during the game ?

[webtricks]

OP I want to know a few game that we should consider to verify the bet, do I have to verify each roll of the dice or do I only have to do it a few time during the game ?

If verifying each bet is cumbersome for you then keep it simple. Before placing first bet, choose your own client seed and copy the server seed hash that site showed you somewhere else (this is to make sure that site doesn't show something else as server seed later). Then play with the same set of seeds for the entire session and when you are done then create a new client seed. Now site will reveal you unhashed server seed which is being used to generate results for all of your bets in the session.

Suppose you placed 50 bets in the session then your results should be generated from the HMAC-sha512 hashes of :

First Bet with "ClientSeed+1" as data and ServerSeed as key
Second Bet with "ClientSeed+2" as data and ServerSeed as key
..
..
..
..
..
Fiftieth Bet with "ClientSeed+50" as data and ServerSeed as key

Now randomly verify 5-6 results and if all match then site is fair!

[TimeTeller]

OP I want to know a few game that we should consider to verify the bet, do I have to verify each roll of the dice or do I only have to do it a few time during the game ?

If verifying each bet is cumbersome for you then keep it simple. Before placing first bet, choose your own client seed and copy the server seed hash that site showed you somewhere else (this is to make sure that site doesn't show something else as server seed later). Then play with the same set of seeds for the entire session and when you are done then create a new client seed. Now site will reveal you unhashed server seed which is being used to generate results for all of your bets in the session.

Suppose you placed 50 bets in the session then your results should be generated from the HMAC-sha512 hashes of :

First Bet with "ClientSeed+1" as data and ServerSeed as key
Second Bet with "ClientSeed+2" as data and ServerSeed as key
..
..
..
..
..
Fiftieth Bet with "ClientSeed+50" as data and ServerSeed as key

Now randomly verify 5-6 results and if all match then site is fair!

Actually, I am guilty with that as I seldom do the verification. As I only play in known gambling sites here, I feel I can trust them with provable fairness aspect.
But if the site is new, and wanted to try their site. I try to verify my bet.
But I usually do that only at the start, once I see that the site is practicing provable fairness, I don't verify my succeeding bets.
But if you are shelling a lot of money, I believe you need to verify randomly if they are consistent with their fairness.

[Fundamentals Of]

As a small-time roller, I don't verify my every single bet. That seems an unnecessary hassle or a waste of time for me who's just having pure fun rolling the dice for example. But I admit that it is every gambler's responsibility to make sure he is not just gambling but also makes sure that fairness is installed. A random verification would be enough.

Another reason why I don't verify every bet is that I am using sites which have already made a name in this forum. I don't think you can get away from a red tag and criticism in this forum if you are promoting an unfair gambling site.

[Shimmiry]

As a small-time roller, I don't verify my every single bet. That seems an unnecessary hassle or a waste of time for me who's just having pure fun rolling the dice for example. But I admit that it is every gambler's responsibility to make sure he is not just gambling but also makes sure that fairness is installed. A random verification would be enough.

Another reason why I don't verify every bet is that I am using sites which have already made a name in this forum. I don't think you can get away from a red tag and criticism in this forum if you are promoting an unfair gambling site.

I also don't verify my bets when I play dice or slot games because I also think it is a hassle that I need to check if the gambling site is fair to play or not. But I always check reviews and feedback in this forum if the gambling site that I am visiting is safe and fair to play. So I don't need to verify my every single bet as a gambler because someone has already confirmed it if the site is fair enough.

[Latviand]

Mostly I agree with your post, but in front we also need to understand " provably " it self. There is no game like that, all features using bot and monopoly by system, even a gambler win million the site still get billion from lost gambler. Gambling is game for fun and people misunderstanding about the purposes. Use it to become rich is worst and find favorite player from gambling world will make you stuck in rich " imagination ".

But we can't control people and we can't tell them that gambling is bad if they found happiness in that.

Some people are not only doing gambling just to get rich, some people are entertaining themselves to relieve stress.

Don't idolize someone who are good in gambling because that can negatively affect your money. Gambling platforms are fair because that is a requirement and you should be aware about their own fairness when you are finding a casino where you can gamble comfortably. Just don't make gambling as a source of profit for a long-term because it can make your money disappear in a single betting only.

[bitcoinst]

Actually, I am guilty with that as I seldom do the verification. As I only play in known gambling sites here, I feel I can trust them with provable fairness aspect.
But if the site is new, and wanted to try their site. I try to verify my bet.
But I usually do that only at the start, once I see that the site is practicing provable fairness, I don't verify my succeeding bets.
But if you are shelling a lot of money, I believe you need to verify randomly if they are consistent with their fairness.

Same. The inertia of my mind tells me that checking the fairness bets is unnecessary. After all, I am already playing on the platform chosen by more sophisticated forum users who have probably done all the checks before me. However, everything should be checked, what I think about is just an assumption that relieves me of responsibility and forces me to do nothing.

[Saint-loup]

Actually, I am guilty with that as I seldom do the verification. As I only play in known gambling sites here, I feel I can trust them with provable fairness aspect.
But if the site is new, and wanted to try their site. I try to verify my bet.
But I usually do that only at the start, once I see that the site is practicing provable fairness, I don't verify my succeeding bets.
But if you are shelling a lot of money, I believe you need to verify randomly if they are consistent with their fairness.

Same. The inertia of my mind tells me that checking the fairness bets is unnecessary. After all, I am already playing on the platform chosen by more sophisticated forum users who have probably done all the checks before me. However, everything should be checked, what I think about is just an assumption that relieves me of responsibility and forces me to do nothing.

Maybe it could be a good idea to open a thread where users would post an update everytime they've checked a gamble on a provably fair casino.

[romero121]

I never check with the provably fair feature. I just spend, if lucky I'll win or else it enda up with loss. One day going through my gambling account saw the statistics of my betting. It has got the increased number of winning rolls and low number of losing rolls. While checking the profit statistics it was negative. By the time I checked whether the rolls were provably fair and found everything to be perfect.

[bitcoinst]

Maybe it could be a good idea to open a thread where users would post an update everytime they've checked a gamble on a provably fair casino.

I think this makes sense only if someone makes a certain amount of bets in completely different casinos, and then checks them. Thus, we can understand how things are in each individual casino.
There is no point in checking and posting the same thing every time. If it works, then it works.

[carriebee]

This really gives me an idea on checking every bet I have made. Though I'm just small time player I never check nor verify my bet in a game. But this post makes me now realize there is other else that we can do on checking if the site is offer a provably fair. I never won actually but the site I'm paying is one of the well known online casino.

[TrevorS]

This really gives me an idea on checking every bet I have made. Though I'm just small time player I never check nor verify my bet in a game. But this post makes me now realize there is other else that we can do on checking if the site is offer a provably fair. I never won actually but the site I'm paying is one of the well known online casino.

I suppose you are not the only one. I think the majority here did not think about it before the appearance of this topic, or rather, they thought about it, but no further action occurred.
Now this is already a question of interest, because in fact this is collective interaction at the forum. I will definitely check my next bet.

[bearexin]

Would be nice if there is an online tool that automates the checking of seed hash if it has change while betting because to me, manually copying hash seed in every bet is a bit an hassle it would render my gambling experience unenjoyable. Hope you could also develop a GUI plugin for these kinds of problems and avoid gambling sites exploiting the PF feature.

Actually for me, I just verify bets when I am betting big and other times I just believe the system.
It is the classic case of suppose you have a box of 100 locks and you don't know if all of them are working and smooth so you just randomly pick up 5-10 and then pass the whole box. Similarly you verify a few bets every now and then to make the system is fair.

I have another concern that is how frequently people actually change the client seed? There must be hardly any gamblers who change their seed regularly so yes it is literally not possible to verify all the bets and change seed every time because it would be too much hassle.

[AniviaBtc]

As a small-time roller, I don't verify my every single bet. That seems an unnecessary hassle or a waste of time for me who's just having pure fun rolling the dice for example. But I admit that it is every gambler's responsibility to make sure he is not just gambling but also makes sure that fairness is installed. A random verification would be enough.

Another reason why I don't verify every bet is that I am using sites which have already made a name in this forum. I don't think you can get away from a red tag and criticism in this forum if you are promoting an unfair gambling site.

That's why we are responsible on choosing the best gambling sites where we feel fairness and legitimacy when we access it.

It is your fault when you are victimized by those fraud gambling sites that is so unfair to its customer, and once you lose a huge amount of money, then you can't blame them.

That's the reason why prevention is much better, you should seek information and look for a reputable gambling casino first and don't waste your time to engage in gambling without even looking for a trusted casino. It should've start with us, it should've start on awareness towards choosing a fair gambling site. Don't forget to make a bad reviews once you experienced unfair gambling site so that other people will become aware with that also.

[bitcoinst]

That's why we are responsible on choosing the best gambling sites where we feel fairness and legitimacy when we access it.

It is your fault when you are victimized by those fraud gambling sites that is so unfair to its customer, and once you lose a huge amount of money, then you can't blame them.

That's the reason why prevention is much better, you should seek information and look for a reputable gambling casino first and don't waste your time to engage in gambling without even looking for a trusted casino. It should've start with us, it should've start on awareness towards choosing a fair gambling site. Don't forget to make a bad reviews once you experienced unfair gambling site so that other people will become aware with that also.

Only we are responsible for the events that happen to us. Our action or our inaction leads to what is happening to us now.
If we neglected to search for information about any project and ended up falling for a scam, it is our fault.
We should always be critical of everything, even in cases where we are 100% sure of the correctness of our choice.

[MCobian]

Very useful topic, although the explanation is quite long but it is worth to reading. Because it contains valuable information.
Especially for those of me who don't know how provably fair works, with the explanation in the opening post I get knowledge
how check the fairness. So someone like me can be better at choosing gambling sites to play with, not based on gambling sites
popular and widely used by others. Which is not necessarily fairness.

[maydna]

That's why we are responsible on choosing the best gambling sites where we feel fairness and legitimacy when we access it.

It is your fault when you are victimized by those fraud gambling sites that is so unfair to its customer, and once you lose a huge amount of money, then you can't blame them.

That's the reason why prevention is much better, you should seek information and look for a reputable gambling casino first and don't waste your time to engage in gambling without even looking for a trusted casino. It should've start with us, it should've start on awareness towards choosing a fair gambling site. Don't forget to make a bad reviews once you experienced unfair gambling site so that other people will become aware with that also.

Seeking information is a must before we can start to play gambling. Without research the information, we will not know about the gambling site. But if that person is not having any intention of playing gambling than to enjoy the game and have fun, that will be okay because he will not think about provably fair or not because he doesn't chase the winning. But maybe some people still search for the information to know more about the gambling site, which is good for him, so he doesn't have any doubt about playing on that website.

[Janation]

That is a great topic and I thought most of us already know this since we are always talking about these sites being Provable Fair.

Did some checking on the sites told by the OP, following the instructions and it appears just like the OP said. Either way, this is the site where I first read about this. I don't know if anyone here check this site out but it might be of help for you guys.

[fiulpro]

A very helpful article for all the people who did not know about these things plus I also learned a thing or two from it . Thank you for investing your time in writing this out. I would for sure try and use it . 

Other than that I do think it's important to :

1. Use a super Trusted client
    You can read Google reviews , you can read the reviews on the board , you can even check how genuine the website it , look for scams that might be connected then only you should place a bet on the site.
     There are sites which are dedicated to actually mention the names of the Trusted websites for gambling and remember this one site be better for placing bets on cricket does not mean they will have a wide variety of online games.

2. Always make sure to check the sites which are involved in the signature campaigns and such , most of them are genuine and they start off great and some of them even give start bonus for the new people.
Even provide you with referral benefits , this way you can save up and also sometimes get free bets.

3. I sometimes make sure to check if the website I am using does have a fairness meter or something of that type , since this shows how much those people care about to provide explanation for the people who might be using them.

Some associations are also providing COVID-19 helpline and such in respect to Gambling , kudos to them.


For some small games it's practically impossible for me to sometimes check every bet especially if it's not that significant therefore this time I might try and keep this into account.

Thank you

[BitcoinTurk]

Although I have never believed that any online gambling service is fair, I usually use these types of services for ease of use. Also, although I do not trust these services, they do not provide the necessary controls after any of my games and I am not sure that the bet I have played or the outcome of the game is absolutely correct. Although it is a pain to provide control for each game individually, as a gambler for entertainment purposes, I do not feel the need to provide such controls. Still, I am sure that many of the games we have played are not really honest and we can never be aware of this because we do not control the game result. Here, there were members who proved that some games that some services provided by providing the necessary controls did not give correct results.

[KTChampions]

Although I have never believed that any online gambling service is fair, I usually use these types of services for ease of use. Also, although I do not trust these services, they do not provide the necessary controls after any of my games and I am not sure that the bet I have played or the outcome of the game is absolutely correct. Although it is a pain to provide control for each game individually, as a gambler for entertainment purposes, I do not feel the need to provide such controls. Still, I am sure that many of the games we have played are not really honest and we can never be aware of this because we do not control the game result. Here, there were members who proved that some games that some services provided by providing the necessary controls did not give correct results.

I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.

[Savemore]

That's why we are responsible on choosing the best gambling sites where we feel fairness and legitimacy when we access it.

It is your fault when you are victimized by those fraud gambling sites that is so unfair to its customer, and once you lose a huge amount of money, then you can't blame them.

That's the reason why prevention is much better, you should seek information and look for a reputable gambling casino first and don't waste your time to engage in gambling without even looking for a trusted casino. It should've start with us, it should've start on awareness towards choosing a fair gambling site. Don't forget to make a bad reviews once you experienced unfair gambling site so that other people will become aware with that also.

Seeking information is a must before we can start to play gambling. Without research the information, we will not know about the gambling site. But if that person is not having any intention of playing gambling than to enjoy the game and have fun, that will be okay because he will not think about provably fair or not because he doesn't chase the winning. But maybe some people still search for the information to know more about the gambling site, which is good for him, so he doesn't have any doubt about playing on that website.

That is why researching is important in order to gather information about its fairness before depositing in specific gambling site. Review of other people are also good source of information about the fairness of a specific gambling site but if it is still not enough then you are the one who should try in order for you to really experience if it is fair or not.

[AjithBtc]

Although I have never believed that any online gambling service is fair, I usually use these types of services for ease of use. Also, although I do not trust these services, they do not provide the necessary controls after any of my games and I am not sure that the bet I have played or the outcome of the game is absolutely correct. Although it is a pain to provide control for each game individually, as a gambler for entertainment purposes, I do not feel the need to provide such controls. Still, I am sure that many of the games we have played are not really honest and we can never be aware of this because we do not control the game result. Here, there were members who proved that some games that some services provided by providing the necessary controls did not give correct results.

I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.

Maybe in the past people weren't aware about it, as well as doesn't have what's within the phrase "provably fair". Now people are aware and even if something seems to be unfair in the operation soon they raise complaints. This will surely create bad reputation to the casinos. To avoid such situations casinos do legitimate service and through the house edge they make profit.

[mersal]

Although I have never believed that any online gambling service is fair, I usually use these types of services for ease of use. Also, although I do not trust these services, they do not provide the necessary controls after any of my games and I am not sure that the bet I have played or the outcome of the game is absolutely correct. Although it is a pain to provide control for each game individually, as a gambler for entertainment purposes, I do not feel the need to provide such controls. Still, I am sure that many of the games we have played are not really honest and we can never be aware of this because we do not control the game result. Here, there were members who proved that some games that some services provided by providing the necessary controls did not give correct results.

I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.

If you choose to play on a reputed gambling site then all the results are fair and if you can want then you can verify your random bets to see how their reputation goes. Actually people keep verifying their random bets and expressing their opinion about reputed gambling sites in bitcointalk as well and if there is some issue then you can report it to the site and can get bounty rewards for that.

[Pamadar]

-Snip-

-Snip-

If you choose to play on a reputed gambling site then all the results are fair and if you can want then you can verify
your random bets to see how their reputation goes.

Reputable sites are mostly concern with their names, knowing that being fair is the main life of their business, they won't let this being ruined.

Actually people keep verifying their random bets and expressing their opinion about reputed gambling sites in bitcointalk as well and if there is some issue then you can report it to the site and can get bounty rewards for that.

That's how this forum able to help those gamblers, this place is a good channel to reached those sites, as they are really concern with their reputations.

[TimeTeller]

-Snip-

-Snip-

If you choose to play on a reputed gambling site then all the results are fair and if you can want then you can verify
your random bets to see how their reputation goes.

Reputable sites are mostly concern with their names, knowing that being fair is the main life of their business, they won't let this being ruined.

Actually people keep verifying their random bets and expressing their opinion about reputed gambling sites in bitcointalk as well and if there is some issue then you can report it to the site and can get bounty rewards for that.

That's how this forum able to help those gamblers, this place is a good channel to reached those sites, as they are really concern with their reputations.

Very true! A reputable and established casino site will not ruin their image by not exercising the provable fairness.
However, if you are a player, from time to time, it is better to check the fairness randomly, just to make sure their system is always working.
Because if there's a bug in the system, and if the casino is legit, they will be willing to rectify the situation and will not make excuses.
So the sites and other tips here how to check the provable fairness is really helpful in spot checking these casinos.

[robelneo]

Very true! A reputable and established casino site will not ruin their image by not exercising the provable fairness.
However, if you are a player, from time to time, it is better to check the fairness randomly, just to make sure their system is always working.
Because if there's a bug in the system, and if the casino is legit, they will be willing to rectify the situation and will not make excuses.
So the sites and other tips here how to check the provable fairness is really helpful in spot checking these casinos.

There was a thread similar about this about one gambler who find out that he is playing in a gambling site that shows different algo hash, but it was already rectified by the admin of that gambling site, so it's better that you checked before you play the game, it's to protect your funds and to also validate the integrity of the gambling site that you are playing.

[Beparanf]

That is a great topic and I thought most of us already know this since we are always talking about these sites being Provable Fair.

Did some checking on the sites told by the OP, following the instructions and it appears just like the OP said. Either way, this is the site where I first read about this. I don't know if anyone here check this site out but it might be of help for you guys.

OP's effort in explaining how it works is very nice even it's too long, he explained the process and what and whys of doing it. You're reference will also be helpful to those who are lazy in readi g at the same wanted a list of casino's who offering the provably fair in their games, might bookmark it for future reference since their list is still few and they might add more in the future.

[KrisAlex18]

This really gives me an idea on checking every bet I have made. Though I'm just small time player I never check nor verify my bet in a game. But this post makes me now realize there is other else that we can do on checking if the site is offer a provably fair. I never won actually but the site I'm paying is one of the well known online casino.

I suppose you are not the only one. I think the majority here did not think about it before the appearance of this topic, or rather, they thought about it, but no further action occurred.
Now this is already a question of interest, because in fact this is collective interaction at the forum. I will definitely check my next bet.

Indeed. Many of us are surprised reading this fresh information for those who still do not know about this. It was really an interesting topic and at the same time a new knowledge worthy to be known by many people most specially those who are just doing bets but did not even care to check just because they are random bettors that play frequently and at small time bets. Actually upon reading this one, I come into realization that if ever I would try to do some bets again, I would try to check the Provably Fair script of the site I am currently using although it is known already to be popular and reputable. I just want to check the new information and knowledge I have learned from this thread since I am also a small bettor that is not verifying or checking my bets once I have done betting for I just play with small amount of bets. But with this thing, I have realized to make it a try to check it out.

This is really fascinating how this forum becomes helpful to each and every one to see information like this that is new for many and this was really an interesting knowledge to be known.

[Stedsm]

I've known to checking each of our manual bets that we place on a dice site, but still not aware of checking the fairness of autobet rolls. Let's take an example of duckdice, if I play through their autobet feature and use flash in it, I won't be able to check each and every dice bet that it places. And I mostly lose on those flash bets, does it mean that the site is rigged? But what about the fact that I win sometimes when I manually play there?

[Janation]

That is a great topic and I thought most of us already know this since we are always talking about these sites being Provable Fair.

Did some checking on the sites told by the OP, following the instructions and it appears just like the OP said. Either way, this is the site where I first read about this. I don't know if anyone here check this site out but it might be of help for you guys.

OP's effort in explaining how it works is very nice even it's too long, he explained the process and what and whys of doing it. You're reference will also be helpful to those who are lazy in readi g at the same wanted a list of casino's who offering the provably fair in their games, might bookmark it for future reference since their list is still few and they might add more in the future.

I just google searched this in the past and I don't know if they are still updating this site for the people.

I checked this last year and I don't know if they are still active or not, I just bookmarked it since I might need it again. All I know is that at the time I needed these sites to check they show it to me. Maybe you could contact them since I don't bet that much in these sites nowadays.

[Genemind]

Honestly, I am not a techy kind of person and I don't know how to verify hashes and how provably fair works. And I bet the majority of gamblers don't care much about the specifics of the system as long as the site is reputable and they are winning. This is really informative and it can help gamblers test the platform's fairness and verify bets, especially for new gambling sites.

[Mauser]

I've known to checking each of our manual bets that we place on a dice site, but still not aware of checking the fairness of autobet rolls. Let's take an example of duckdice, if I play through their autobet feature and use flash in it, I won't be able to check each and every dice bet that it places. And I mostly lose on those flash bets, does it mean that the site is rigged? But what about the fact that I win sometimes when I manually play there?

I think it's really hard to check the auto bet systems because if the vast number of individual bets in a short period of time. Personally I back to just use manual betting. It might be slower but it gives me a better feeling of what's going on. It also makes checking much easier. Being honest, I haven't checked bets for a long time.
I prefer gambling on casinos that have been around from some time and have many positive reviews on this forum. A good track record is an easy way to choose my favourite casinos.

[Bitinity]

To be frank, I'm very rare to verify my bets especially if I'm playing in a trusted casino. I do verify my bets some time especially when I feel  something is unusual such as long loss streak and long win streak. Although I'm not that good in this kind of system but I can verify bets by using 3rd party verifier to make it easier. I also think that most gamblers especially newbies and/or recreational gamblers do not really care about this thing. As well as those who comes from fiat based casinos, I believe they do not care about it because most fiat based casinos has no provably fair system so once they move to crypto based casino then they wont care about what is this system about.

[Danydee]

OP,

What do you say on that?

https://tower.bet/fairness


Fairness
Tower.bet uses cryptographically provably fair RNG algorithms which guarantee that the result of each round/bet can’t be manipulated by the house.



Fairness Hi-Lo
Hi-Lo Game
Hi-Lo is a round-based card game where players ....


Randomization
In order to allow players to verify round results, we generate a chain of seeds for each game type. Each seed in a chain is SHA256 hash of a previous one which allows maintaining chain integrity over time. The game utilizes seeds from the chain in reverse order, that means knowing the seed of Nth round you can generate seeds for any number of previous rounds. The chain may consist of various amounts of seeds. We encode and publish the SHA256 hash of the last seed in the chain to Ethereum transaction’s data and use block hash as SALT. We can’t predict block hash, so by doing so results are uniformly distributed which means we can’t generate a chain of seeds with some specific distribution.

#   Seeds number   Salt   
1   10000  ....
..


Tower.bet Hi Lo randomization #1 SHA-256 of last seen chain can be checked in ETH transaction under an Input Data section. Make sure to view Input Data in UTF-8.


Result Generation
To generate a number in the range [0, 24] we combine round seed with salt. Then calculate SHA256 hash of that combination. That gives us a string of 64 hexadecimal numbers.

Then we take the first 4 characters of that hash and convert it into a decimal number ranging from 0 to 65535 (16 ^ 4 - 1). If it is less than 65525, we use the remainder from division by 25 and use it as an outcome. Otherwise, we repeat using the next 4 characters. We are able to repeat the process up to 16 times. The outcome of this algorithm is a sequential number (position) of the result card in the deck.


Sample Code
const saltedSeed = CryptoJS.SHA2. ....

Verification
We're publishing the game's hash immediately after the game round ends. You can use round’s seed and salt to verify that the bet result was not modified as well as verify that the seed was present in the original chain during randomization. There is a public verification script you can use to verify results, source code available and open.

 There is some more projects that are using registering / registering on blockchain systems to garanty the non compromision ..

[webtricks]

OP,
What do you say on that?

https://tower.bet/fairness
~snip~

 There is some more projects that are using registering / registering on blockchain systems to garanty the non compromision ..

Thanks for bringing this up Danydee. I have checked the Fairness script for Hi-Lo game and it is perfectly fine. I will now explain how the provably script on Tower Bet works for Hi-Lo:

Step 1: Generating Server Seeds

First of all, they had generated a bunch of server seeds. To do so, they started with an initial 32-bytes number and produces SHA-256 hash of the same successively many times. Let me give an example along with the explanation so things become more clear. Suppose initial 32-bytes number they chose is:

d8534cceef185bfa3b6dbc65e851417ab9d46212b4e8b15bedf3f4e2d5254214 (i)

Now we will generate sha256 hash of the above number, which will be:

0b2dbe3d322cff35b6645f9af323acae8526aaacbbf235b17e789d0f527ce318 (ii)

Now generating sha256 hash of (ii) will be:

e1966dcd64ea1f76edaeb07ebf217d9c8ec48d04c4a8af0d0e87d08d61cb1d21 (iii)

and so on...

Tower Bet did this process 100K times and the 100,000 hashes that were generated served as first 99,999 server seeds for Hi-Lo game. In our case, let say we generated 6 hashes then these five will serve as first five server seeds:

Fifth Server Seed: d8534cceef185bfa3b6dbc65e851417ab9d46212b4e8b15bedf3f4e2d5254214 - our chosen initial number
Fourth Server Seed: 0b2dbe3d322cff35b6645f9af323acae8526aaacbbf235b17e789d0f527ce318
Third Server Seed: e1966dcd64ea1f76edaeb07ebf217d9c8ec48d04c4a8af0d0e87d08d61cb1d21
Second Server Seed: 29224e31e42f72669d493d4081d4644e46ac2193292a8df7170187e62ba5affd
First Server Seed: 07fcd88c11bc970237e6e50d8c8259083dc94a3c2498596c6923b94a366ddb69
Hash that will serve as proof: e53cbb67f801cc4bc1a0f6c2674472f13fe04d6705ef56c450640a6cb0eec8d3

Now you may be thinking why we are not using 6th hash as a server seed? The reason being, sixth server seed will act as a proof that server seeds are not manipulated by house later on. Let me explain how. After generating 100K hashes, Tower Bet added the 100,000th hash in the Ethereum Blockchain as an input data in one of their transaction. This is the transaction in which hash is included:

https://etherscan.io/tx/0x1b5bf677610024e8f29cfec39400df2d55322f506da3128832247d535bba481f (t)

Go to the above link and view input data as 'UTF-8'.

In our case, we will put e53cbb67f801cc4bc1a0f6c2674472f13fe04d6705ef56c450640a6cb0eec8d3 as an input data in Ethereum blockchain by including this hash as input data in ETH transaction. This will make sure that it is the hash of first server seed i.e. 07fcd88c11bc970237e6e50d8c8259083dc94a3c2498596c6923b94a366ddb69 and house cannot change that later.

Step 2: Client Seed

In single player games like dice where player is individually playing against house, client seed is decided on the sole discretion of the player. He can change the client seed before placing the bet (which I have explained in detail in the opening post). But in social games, where more than one player is playing the same game, it is not viable for every player to choose his own client seed. As an easy way out, house chooses same client seed for all the players based on some future-event which isn't in control of house. In the case of Tower Bet's Hi-Lo game, the client seed is the hash of the block in which the above transaction (t) is recorded. Since block is not mined by Tower Bet, they have no control on what would be the hash of block which makes client seed fair for every player. The block in which the above transaction was recorded is:
https://etherscan.io/block/10057525

The hash of this block is 0xbc81865617ce0e8aca17b09c8df81c549cc3d677f1da95ad6ae7622d1c2c357f and this is currently used by Tower Bet as client seed for every round of Hi-Lo game.

So this is flow which make sure results are not pre-decided:

Step 3: Result Generation

Result is generated very simply. First they combine server seed and client seed like this:

CombinedSeed = serverSeed + ClientSeed

Then they generate sha256 hash of the CombinedSeed. Then first four hexadecimal characters are taken to generate the result.

Here is the result of one of the round:

You can see that:
Client Seed or Salt = 0xb52b2c17b28c83c6e452c76b9650915e24f09091af9a1f643ee61fc6ee60ea5d  (which is same as the hash of the block we saw in Step 2)
Server Seed = 26d42b14348ed56482511c5557c538766e7b97dc968e30a7cf9cd75cdd414c83

So CombinedSeed will be 26d42b14348ed56482511c5557c538766e7b97dc968e30a7cf9cd75cdd414c830xb52b2c17b28c8 3c6e452c76b9650915e24f09091af9a1f643ee61fc6ee60ea5d

The sha256 hash of CombinedSeed will be 3ebbde85c5231686eb8dfcd49d2df382ba22d99f042473db6aebf016f0e40ae0

The first four hexadecimal character will be 3ebb.

The decimal form of 3ebb is 16059 which when divided by 25 leaves 9 as the remainder. Since array starts with index 0, the result shall be 10th item in the array:

[Joker, 2 red, 2 black, 3 red, 3 black, 4 red, 4 black, 5 red, 5 black, 6 red, 6 black, 7 red, 7 black, 8 red, 8 black, 9 red, 9 black, J red, J black, Q red, Q black, K red, K black, A red, A black]

Since, 10th item is '6 red', the card shall be 6 of reds. In image, we can verify that the card is correct! Hence, Tower Bet is provably fair.

My Observation

Storing pre-calculated data on blockchain as server seed and choosing future data as client seed to determine result is an impressive way to maintain fairness of social game where more than one player play at the same time. I really liked the idea. However, player must make sure that such data is recorded on reputable blockchain (only Bitcoin and Ethereum blockchains). If the data is recorded on the blockchain of some small cap cryptocurrency, it is possible that house itself mined the block and in such condition block hash maybe generated as per the will of house. Note that, block hash is not random. It is the hash generated by combining the block details like transaction, timestamp, pervious block's hash, etc etc. So for small cap coin, it is possible for miner to mine block at specific time to generate block as per his own will. But for Bitcoin and Ethereum chain, we can assume that hash of block mined is fair.

[Danydee]

Thank you for the great explanation ! 

My Observation

Storing pre-calculated data on blockchain as server seed and choosing future data as client seed to determine result is an impressive way to maintain fairness of social game where more than one player play at the same time. I really liked the idea. However, player must make sure that such data is recorded on reputable blockchain (only Bitcoin and Ethereum blockchains). If the data is recorded on the blockchain of some small cap cryptocurrency, it is possible that house itself mined the block and in such condition block hash maybe generated as per the will of house. Note that, block hash is not random. It is the hash generated by combining the block details like transaction, timestamp, pervious block's hash, etc etc. So for small cap coin, it is possible for miner to mine block at specific time to generate block as per his own will. But for Bitcoin and Ethereum chain, we can assume that hash of block mined is fair.

So at the point it is easy to ad some pepper and enforce the system just by also including every new block mined 

[Fredomago]

To be frank, I'm very rare to verify my bets especially if I'm playing in a trusted casino. I do verify my bets some time especially when I feel  something is unusual such as long loss streak and long win streak.

If you feel that something is not right with end results of your bets probably you'll be seeking
for some great reference on how things had been done.

Although I'm not that good in this kind of system but I can verify bets by using 3rd party verifier to make it easier.

Good thing that you are aware of those available system to check what's really happened
from your previous games, it helps a lot to verified the results.

I also think that most gamblers especially newbies and/or recreational gamblers do not really care about this thing.

Yes, thinking that everything relied with luck.

As well as those who comes from fiat based casinos, I believe they do not care about it because most fiat based casinos has no provably fair system so once they move to crypto based casino then they wont care about what is this system about.

I'm not exposed with fiat based gambling house, if that's the case those who divert their attention to crypto based gambling site
are just there to play, win or lose they won't mind to deal with anything.

[Mumbeeptind1963]

Honestly, I am not a techy kind of person and I don't know how to verify hashes and how provably fair works. And I bet the majority of gamblers don't care much about the specifics of the system as long as the site is reputable and they are winning. This is really informative and it can help gamblers test the platform's fairness and verify bets, especially for new gambling sites.

Me too, I am only play but I do not know this thing, it seems that I need to know more about this, and not only I will rely on where does many people go, or play in gambling site, because before I only play to those site that are recommended by some people or where does many people go. I should consider to check this before I put a large amount of money in my chosen gambling site.

[Eternad]

Honestly, I am not a techy kind of person and I don't know how to verify hashes and how provably fair works. And I bet the majority of gamblers don't care much about the specifics of the system as long as the site is reputable and they are winning. This is really informative and it can help gamblers test the platform's fairness and verify bets, especially for new gambling sites.

Me too, I am only play but I do not know this thing, it seems that I need to know more about this, and not only I will rely on where does many people go, or play in gambling site, because before I only play to those site that are recommended by some people or where does many people go. I should consider to check this before I put a large amount of money in my chosen gambling site.

Whenever we risk a large money we must know where it will go, I also not very particular in fairness of the game as long as I enjoyed it I'm fine, but this time that Pandemic and it's hard to find a job and sidelines we must know where are money goes or if we will use it in gambling atleast we find way to win. Being able to calculate the provably fair of a game might help us in winning.

[webtricks]

Thank you for the great explanation ! 

My Observation

~snip~

So at the point it is easy to ad some pepper and enforce the system just by also including every new block mined 

Not really! Like I said, block hashes are not random and can bring the house in vulnerable situation if results are wholly based on the hash of new blocks mined. Moreover, no house wants to give away the control over the result generated by following data which is entirely out of its control. Server seeds make sure that house resides considerable control over the results.

While from the player's point of view, custom client seed is still a better option than block hash as a client seed.

So in short, there can't be a working system where new blocks could be either used as client seed or server seed. What Tower Bet did, they took a single hash and reusing it as client seed. Dynamic hashes won't work.

[Inkdatar]

Whenever I’m playing a game online I do not check every bet I’ve made if the site really offers a provably fair system. This is very informative though I’m not that big player so the next time I'll check everything. This gives me an understanding of the process in an online game and also to many users or gamblers so this is very helpful especially to those who do not know how provably fair works.

[Bezobraznike]

Whenever I’m playing a game online I do not check every bet I’ve made if the site really offers a provably fair system. This is very informative though I’m not that big player so the next time I'll check everything. This gives me an understanding of the process in an online game and also to many users or gamblers so this is very helpful especially to those who do not know how provably fair works.

   I don't check it as well, and I don't change seeds, but I see some people in chat suggest that all the time. I saw some discussions
that it can mean something, but there're people who claim different. I am not sure in what to believe here, and I decided to not
overthink that, I just gamble with small amounts and I think I don't need to do all that, I just enjoy the gambling at some site
as it is, if I have luck I will win, if not I will lose.

[travwill]

I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!

[AmoreJaz]

Honestly, I am not a techy kind of person and I don't know how to verify hashes and how provably fair works. And I bet the majority of gamblers don't care much about the specifics of the system as long as the site is reputable and they are winning. This is really informative and it can help gamblers test the platform's fairness and verify bets, especially for new gambling sites.

most casino sites have their brief discussion how their provably fair system works. so even if youre not a techie one, just follow their procedure and you will learn how to verify your hash
 but anyway, i rarely do it for myself also. if im playing in a known casino here, i dont usually verify my bet. maybe if its a new one, i just check it once to see if they are saying the truth bout their provable fairness..

[alisonwonder]

I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!

I think the possibility of being fair is just a figure of speech or a statement because we as users or players do not know the original script made by the gambling website creator, they may provide information about the possibility of a fair but in it there is a script where some time there are players who lose a lot.

[dimonstration]

To be frank, I'm very rare to verify my bets especially if I'm playing in a trusted casino. I do verify my bets some time especially when I feel  something is unusual such as long loss streak and long win streak. Although I'm not that good in this kind of system but I can verify bets by using 3rd party verifier to make it easier. I also think that most gamblers especially newbies and/or recreational gamblers do not really care about this thing. As well as those who comes from fiat based casinos, I believe they do not care about it because most fiat based casinos has no provably fair system so once they move to crypto based casino then they wont care about what is this system about.

Once the casino is trusted and we were able to win sometimes as well to cash out fast in that casino there is no sense of checking the fairness especially if we were already comfortable in it. Maybe those high rollers or users who deposits way to much money is maticulous in knowing how fair the casino is. There are some calculation to determined and might also take time and effort,but I see in some post here that there are casino maybe new casinos who provide calculators to prove their casino fairness to not be doubt by new upcoming players.

[goaldigger]

I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!

I think the possibility of being fair is just a figure of speech or a statement because we as users or players do not know the original script made by the gambling website creator, they may provide information about the possibility of a fair but in it there is a script where some time there are players who lose a lot.

That’s a lot of numbers to crack for you to know if its fair, and if you are just playing to have fun then you don’t have time to know if its a real fair or not. Someone will work on that, those who gamble seriously should make sure that the site is fair to you and fair on giving details of your games. Probably fair really exist, top gambling site is making sure to be fair to remain a reputable gambling site.

[ethereumhunter]

I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!

I think the possibility of being fair is just a figure of speech or a statement because we as users or players do not know the original script made by the gambling website creator, they may provide information about the possibility of a fair but in it there is a script where some time there are players who lose a lot.

That’s a lot of numbers to crack for you to know if its fair, and if you are just playing to have fun then you don’t have time to know if its a real fair or not. Someone will work on that, those who gamble seriously should make sure that the site is fair to you and fair on giving details of your games. Probably fair really exist, top gambling site is making sure to be fair to remain a reputable gambling site.

Not many serious gamblers always check fairness because they will think about winning the games. But for the serious gamblers who check, they will need more time to place the bet or check while they are putting the bet. The reputable gambling site will not try to cheat their members because that will relate to their reputations among the gamblers. And if they do that and the members know about that, the members will leave them and will not come to their site again.

[KTChampions]

I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.

Maybe in the past people weren't aware about it, as well as doesn't have what's within the phrase "provably fair". Now people are aware and even if something seems to be unfair in the operation soon they raise complaints. This will surely create bad reputation to the casinos. To avoid such situations casinos do legitimate service and through the house edge they make profit.

Exactly. The funniest thing is that a casino makes the most profit if it works as honestly as possible. And any bias in the results relative to the theory of probability is more profitable for the players than for the casino. I read an article about this in some scientific journal, unfortunately I cannot give a link now.

[andycarrol]

I have not checked any of my bets. Now I became insanely curious about how it works and how it will look. Plus, I don’t understand why we don’t use this feature given that it’s completely free.
It makes no sense to trust any third parties, such as the casinos where we play. If they say check us - we must check!

I think the possibility of being fair is just a figure of speech or a statement because we as users or players do not know the original script made by the gambling website creator, they may provide information about the possibility of a fair but in it there is a script where some time there are players who lose a lot.

That’s a lot of numbers to crack for you to know if its fair, and if you are just playing to have fun then you don’t have time to know if its a real fair or not. Someone will work on that, those who gamble seriously should make sure that the site is fair to you and fair on giving details of your games. Probably fair really exist, top gambling site is making sure to be fair to remain a reputable gambling site.

Not many serious gamblers always check fairness because they will think about winning the games. But for the serious gamblers who check, they will need more time to place the bet or check while they are putting the bet. The reputable gambling site will not try to cheat their members because that will relate to their reputations among the gamblers. And if they do that and the members know about that, the members will leave them and will not come to their site again.

of course the gamblers who used to be investigating this will require a lot of capital but if the cheating really happens then the gambling site owners already get a lot of results from investigators because they will certainly always try it, if their reputation is bad then they will make more with the design or a different name because if you already have a gambling script it will be very easy to make it online.

[Sadlife]

I always copy the hash of the server seed and provide my custom client seed to avoid any manipulation. However,I don't check all the results, only when I have doubts using third party tools (if you don't trust the casino then you should not trust their verification scrypt).

If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.

[Saint-loup]

Thanks for bringing this up Danydee. I have checked the Fairness script for Hi-Lo game and it is perfectly fine. I will now explain how the provably script on Tower Bet works for Hi-Lo:

Step 1: Generating Server Seeds

Your explanation is interesting but you forgot to mention why it's important and convenient to use a hash chain : you can (easily) check if the house seed used for the game belongs to the predefined set of seeds or not.
You just need to get the number (N) of the gamble and to hash the house seed N times, if you get the same hash as the one mentioned in the blockchain, it means the seed is ok.

For example if you are playing at the 6th game. You will have to hash 6 times the house seed when you will get it to check if the hash gotten is the same as the one included in the blockchain.
In fact if the house seed hash is displayed before playing (or if you know the house seed of the previous game) you could even check that by hashing this hash N-1 times (ie 5 times in this example) before playing...

[webtricks]

~quote~

Your explanation is interesting but you forgot to mention why it's important and convenient to use a hash chain : you can (easily) check if the house seed used for the game belongs to the predefined set of seeds or not.
You just need to get the number (N) of the gamble and to hash the house seed N times, if you get the same hash as the one mentioned in the blockchain, it means the seed is ok.

For example if you are playing at the 6th game. You will have to hash 6 times the house seed when you will get it to check if the hash gotten is the same as the one included in the blockchain.
(In fact since its hash is displayed before playing, you can even check that by hashing this hash 5 times...)

Yeah! That's obvious. Since we are hashing same number again and again and we have final hash with us, we can easily check if correct server seed is used by hashing server seed of the round times the number of rounds played so far. It has to be same with the final hash, no rocket science in that. But verifying server seed alone doesn't guarantee that result is correct. One has to calculate final result by following all steps and match with the card shown to make sure casino doesn't play any dirty in later calculation.

If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.

There are already several open-source verification codes available online. Most of the reputable casinos will show the link of such scripts on their provably fair page. You just need to input your seeds in the form and correct results will be shown.

[Saint-loup]

Yeah! That's obvious. Since we are hashing same number again and again and we have final hash with us, we can easily check if correct server seed is used by hashing server seed of the round times the number of rounds played so far. It has to be same with the final hash, no rocket science in that. But verifying server seed alone doesn't guarantee that result is correct. One has to calculate final result by following all steps and match with the card shown to make sure casino doesn't play any dirty in later calculation.

I agree with you that's not rocket science, but many players don't know/realize it.

But I want to add it's better to play on casinos having "seed events" thread on bitcointalk because malicious ones could use different hash chains with several final hashes included in different blocks or even blockchains... On bitcointalk you can easily find their thread, and well trusted members usually quote and archive those seed datas.
But I don't find any thread or even post of this kind for tower.bet...  

[ethereumhunter]

Not many serious gamblers always check fairness because they will think about winning the games. But for the serious gamblers who check, they will need more time to place the bet or check while they are putting the bet. The reputable gambling site will not try to cheat their members because that will relate to their reputations among the gamblers. And if they do that and the members know about that, the members will leave them and will not come to their site again.

of course the gamblers who used to be investigating this will require a lot of capital but if the cheating really happens then the gambling site owners already get a lot of results from investigators because they will certainly always try it, if their reputation is bad then they will make more with the design or a different name because if you already have a gambling script it will be very easy to make it online.

I guess so, but the owner will not create the new gambling site quickly because they want to hide their record after they get founded by that gambler. It is easy for the owner to buy another domain name because they already have a lot of money from the previous website, so they can hide for a while before making a new gambling site. The gamblers who investigate the site can cooperate with the other gamblers to reveal the gambling site to know the truth.

[perfect999]

I've known to checking each of our manual bets that we place on a dice site, but still not aware of checking the fairness of autobet rolls. Let's take an example of duckdice, if I play through their autobet feature and use flash in it, I won't be able to check each and every dice bet that it places. And I mostly lose on those flash bets, does it mean that the site is rigged? But what about the fact that I win sometimes when I manually play there?

I am not aware of the flash bets but surely if you cannot verify bets in the flash mode then the website can take some advantage in certain cases since they know the user is unable to verify bets so they can easily manipulate the seeds and cheat you.

But that said, I would never accuse a casino for cheating just because I am losing in flash mode and win when I bet manually because that can happen normally also. The simple solution though is that you should avoid flash bets and bet manually until you get an answer from them about how we can verify flash bets.

[Twentyonepaylots]

I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.

Maybe in the past people weren't aware about it, as well as doesn't have what's within the phrase "provably fair". Now people are aware and even if something seems to be unfair in the operation soon they raise complaints. This will surely create bad reputation to the casinos. To avoid such situations casinos do legitimate service and through the house edge they make profit.

Exactly. The funniest thing is that a casino makes the most profit if it works as honestly as possible. And any bias in the results relative to the theory of probability is more profitable for the players than for the casino. I read an article about this in some scientific journal, unfortunately I cannot give a link now.

What? How are they going to cheat in favor of the players? if the casino is not fair then it is all on the house. Basically the casino controls the algorithm, for example in dice, the system should draw a random number in 50% probability of being higher or lower than 50, that's the fairness in game, so if they are bias they could simply set it in 70% higher chance of getting 50 and up, but if the players notice it they can abuse it, that's where they are going to change it the other way around. Such a shame on a casino like that, money grabber

[jostorres]

This really gives me an idea on checking every bet I have made. Though I'm just small time player I never check nor verify my bet in a game. But this post makes me now realize there is other else that we can do on checking if the site is offer a provably fair. I never won actually but the site I'm paying is one of the well known online casino.

I suppose you are not the only one. I think the majority here did not think about it before the appearance of this topic, or rather, they thought about it, but no further action occurred.
Now this is already a question of interest, because in fact this is collective interaction at the forum. I will definitely check my next bet.

While you must verify your bets but my theory on this topic is that if you trust a casino then you have to trust their system and you might not need to verify your bets. What I mean to say is, suppose there is a rigged rolls problem with any casino then surely anyone in the forum will check and let everyone know about it, for example bet dicebitco.in was smoothly operating until a user found the rigged rolls problem and made it public.

I mostly play at primedice for dice game and they are running since years and if they were involved into any wrong practices they would have been busted multiple times by now. Instead they got hacked by HufflePuff which makes me think the system is quite fair. Hence, when I trust a casino I don't doubt them at all.

[Debonaire217]

This is the biggest advantage of a provably fair online game casino, which is for users to verify the outcome of the game and not just suspecting that the casino is fabricating the result for their own good.

I haven't tried to verify a singe game of mine, but with the thread you just made, I think I will do it for my future bets. For most of the people who hardly understand this topic, I advise to study these terms first:

Hash Functions,
Cryptography,
SHA256,
SHA512,
Third Party Hash Applications

I'll rephrase how I understand the verification process:

What you need is to hash the unhashed seed from the server and client, then simply compare the hashes shown by the casino to the thirdparty hashing application.

[swogerino]

I always copy the hash of the server seed and provide my custom client seed to avoid any manipulation. However,I don't check all the results, only when I have doubts using third party tools (if you don't trust the casino then you should not trust their verification scrypt).

If the gambling site provide a feature that is integrating a plugin from a third party where you can quickly check your server seed and client seed that will be a great addition to a gambling site's legitimacy in my opinion in fact it will be a good investment and it will generate more customers wanting to play their site.

I agree.I trust a lot more a site who claims to be provably fair and in addition to their claims it provides a third party trusted company which can verify the seed before and after the spin for example.This way I am assured as a customer as there is no possibility of cheating from the casino and this is how it should be.

[DarkDays]

An insightful theory you have here. You could have just linked to external animations rather than trying to break down what the provably fair system was without your dry grammar. The whole context of your thread is that you are basing your doubts based on the 3 (probably blind) people of your choosing.

In fact, your suspicions would have been more substantiated if you were to catch at least one gambling site that took advantage of this human error you speak of. You know why you couldn't because no gambling site relies on human eye to catch their errors.

This is why most gamblers don't care about where provably fair is actually enforced. They allow other entities to check that for them. And these entities are either 'smarter' people or a computer. And if a gambling house did indeed fooled its customers, then such a site would be caught easily by the snooping smart detectives we have everywhere.

Regardless of the dryness of your grammar, this was an interesting read in this section.

[mezzaluna]

Provably Fair Script is one of the basic element of online gambling, especially for crypto based casinos. However, most of the gamblers don't give dime about it while some don't even know what is it and how it operates. I started crypto gambling in 2016 and didn't know about Provably Fair for most of my initial gambling days. But believe me in the absence of Provably Fair, you are not gambling, you are just being cheated by the house.

The basic idea of this thread is to share my views on PF script and how to make most out of it. I have spent few weeks developing unique logic for Provably Fair script for upcoming gambling site clubbing it with blockchain technology. While developing it, I visited around 20 casinos and tried their PF script to understand current practice. However, this thread is not about my script but about current practice.


Now coming to the most important part. Probably this part is the main reason why I created this thread. Although, the above system is foolproof but site owners can easily fool you if you ain't paying enough attention. So here are the few points you should consider while gambling:

(i) Always copy server seed hash shown to you before betting.
(ii) After bet is complete, create new client seed. Make sure server seed is also changed along with it.
(iii) Once new client seed is created, site will show you unhashed server seed of previous bet. Copy it and convert it to sha256 hash using some third party online tool.
(iv) Match the server seed hash that you copied in step (i) to the one generated in step (iii) and make sure both are exactly same.

Two days ago, I tested my code with few people. I shown them different server seed hash before bet and after bet I kept first 6 characters same, last 3 characters same and few similar characters in the middle. It took just 30-40 seconds for my machine to generate such hash. With more powerful machine, I can speed up the process and create more matching characters. To my surprise, none of the tester noticed that they were shown different server hash before and after bet. It is human tendency that they only consider few letters (probably starting and ending ones) when presented random word like hexadecimal hash. So with bare eyes, no one was able to notice the difference. So be safe and make sure you verify every bet you make. Being a coding enthusiast, I can assure you that it is very much possible that house can easily manipulate results without player even noticing.

Another thing you can do is to use cross-casinos verification. For example, Fortunejack and Bitsler use same script, you can verify your fortunejack bets using bitsler's verification script.

That is surely one informative post and I'm currently testing it on another website like CoinPot which is integrated in rolling high and low numbers with multipliers. As far as I can see it really is random and you need to at least wait for days to see that you are gaining profit. The profit is still fairly low though it can be time consuming.

[Eugenar]

Not really familiar of such thing to be honest. I've been gradually playing for months to some gambling sites since last year. I do experience losing most of the times, but I do sometimes win a small amount. Not a "hard gambler" tho' but I did not have an idea that sites could do such thing unfair to their players. This is very informative, surely other players could reflect as well to this topic.

I think that in all the top casinos the games are absolutely fair. If this were not the case, they would be very quickly caught doing it. Everything here is based on mathematics and any fraud is easy to see since everything is recorded and it is very easy for any player to get complete statistics at a distance of thousands and tens of thousands of bets.

Maybe in the past people weren't aware about it, as well as doesn't have what's within the phrase "provably fair". Now people are aware and even if something seems to be unfair in the operation soon they raise complaints. This will surely create bad reputation to the casinos. To avoid such situations casinos do legitimate service and through the house edge they make profit.

Exactly. The funniest thing is that a casino makes the most profit if it works as honestly as possible. And any bias in the results relative to the theory of probability is more profitable for the players than for the casino. I read an article about this in some scientific journal, unfortunately I cannot give a link now.

That's just how things work. The house will probably have the win, all of the time.

[Shasha80]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

[Questat]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

Actually, most gamblers does not verify it, they just verify the site, if they trust it, they gamble on it.
If you only bet a small amount with bigger number of wages, I don't think you would still bother to verify, you can do it once,twice or thrice, but doing it every time, that would be a waste of time. 

But you are right, thanks to OP for sharing the complete and detailed guide, newbie should check this out.

LINK

~snip~

[semobo]

It will take lot of our time if we are going to verify the every bet results so it is always better to check the random bets of us to ensure that we are playing in a provably fair result casino.A fun note is sometimes I failed to check the results as well because I just keep repeating the previous bets continuously too often because the bet amount is going to be very minimum so I love the tapping strategy.

[iamsheikhadil]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

Most of us have a herd-mindset haha. We never verify our bets on sites which are already popular, nor we have the energy because we are lazy verifying each and every bet isn't important specially if you verify some and the site is already trusted by many and have a license. Because for them to get a license, they really have to be completely fair!

[Kong Hey Pakboy]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

Most of us have a herd-mindset haha. We never verify our bets on sites which are already popular, nor we have the energy because we are lazy verifying each and every bet isn't important specially if you verify some and the site is already trusted by many and have a license. Because for them to get a license, they really have to be completely fair!

Indeed. I also think it would be a little waste of time, if we will verify a popular gambling site whether it is fair or not because someone have already verified it that it is fair enough to play and spend your funds. But if you are only playing a non famous gambling site because, it would be definitely a waste of money amd time.

[BlackFor3st]

As a gambler, I am having a difficulty in verifying the fairness of every website that I was able to play even if they are giving an instruction on how we will be
able to check the fairness in their platform.

And I am wondering also if the script that they are giving can be altered easily just to cheat the players and they are just displaying the script just to say that they
are fair. And with regards to client and server seed, I am very poor about it even if you are giving a good example to it.

[peter0425]

I am a gambler who only plays with a small amount, so I never verify every bet that I have done. It turned out that after I read
the explanation in the opening post, I understood that checking the fairness of the script is important. Thank you for opening my
mind regarding fairness, from now on I will always verify every bet I make.Just wanted to make sure I wasn't cheated by the house.

Self awareness is very important even you are not really using big bankroll.

The importance of knowing that house is not cheating on you will reflect with a good relationship between
gamblers and the business. A good communication will keep the trust and the continuously visit for the site.

[panganib999]

As a gambler, I do always check of my bets in a sense that I do properly managed the way I organized the amounts of bet I spend in a game and after that, I just let the luck to play on my side even if I am playing in an online casino. Seriously, this information was just new for me, and what I can say is that it is worth a time for reading such a long explanation about what is provably fair is in any online casino sites. The information I have read was a new addition into my knowledge obtained here in the forum and I can say is that it is worthy and can be useful to check the fairness of the site when it comes to bets. But for sure well-known and reputable online casinos do exhibit proper and fair provably fair scripts on their site which make me worry less about my bets since I am playing into a reputable and trusted casino site. But just to satisfy my curiosity, I will give it a shot to check the provably fair script of the site so I can make use of the knowledge and information I obtain in this thread.

[smyslov]

can we say that even a reputable gambling website won't cheat its users? we don't know because the system isn't transparent. So definitely, there are part of this that cheating really occurs sometimes on reputable or non-reputable platforms and we aren't aware of that.

Not because you are checking you do not trust the platform where you are playing you just want to make sure that they are fair so your trust can grow more, and you can recommend it to your friends because the platform you are playing is fair and you yourself proved it because this is very important in any gambling sites people are trusting because they know that luck and their skills is the one that they can rely to win and if they lose because luck is not on their side not because they are cheated.

[KTChampions]

If the reputable gambling website cheating the members, and the members know, they will get into the problem, and the member can chase the site with help from other people who know about the law. Yes, we don't know if the system cheats or not, but we can anticipate from the cheat by not using too big money for playing gambling.

But isn't the point of the Provably Fair system just to know for sure that everything is fair? As I understand it, any player with average technical knowledge/ability can check the fairness of the game on the history of their bets. I read that there are certain nuances and "loopholes" but in general the system works like this.

[famososMuertos]

Read about FP things like the OP, if you think necessary, that is, don't just read, study it.

In any case, for the vast majority, knowing that there is PF is enough.

The PF not has NOTHING to do with your earnings. Neither when you lose nor when you win.
If you think that because a site has PF, you are guaranteed that you will never lose or that the bad streak you are having is normal. You should add to your reading not only FP, you should read about the stakes, the variance, the probability.

Fall into the review, of each bet! it can be a bad practice that leads to losses. If you have $ 100 and bet $ 10 it is great if you do it for fun, you may hit a big prize.

But if you are doing it for real profit, you want to start being a winner, start with a loss of $ 1 after betting 5000 times or more, it's the beginning.

Always check the profit / loss, the size of the BET in relation to your bankroll and enjoy growing see your wagered.

Be careful, checking the PF too many times turns into a placebo effect.

G.B.
PF:Provably Fair

[Ayiranorea]

Verifying the bets will give you awareness and idea on the platform you are betting with so as a gambler, you must do things like this to be aware of your bets and secure your earnings.

But most of us don't do this kind of things, they'll just bet and leave the platform without observing how it works because they thought it'll be a waste of time.  

As a gambler, I am having a difficulty in verifying the fairness of every website that I was able to play even if they are giving an instruction on how we will be
able to check the fairness in their platform.

And I am wondering also if the script that they are giving can be altered easily just to cheat the players and they are just displaying the script just to say that they
are fair. And with regards to client and server seed, I am very poor about it even if you are giving a good example to it.

For a reputable gambling website, they won't cheat to their member or they will lose their members if somehow, their members know about that. That gambling site will tell that they are fair enough to their members, and even, they can invite people to try to test their script to know if they are fair or not. I never think about fair or not because I don't play gambling as other people. And for me, as long as I can play without any problem, that will be fair.

How can we say that even a reputable gambling website won't cheat its users? we don't know because the system isn't transparent. So definitely, there are part of this that cheating really occurs sometimes on reputable or non-reputable platforms and we aren't aware of that.

Agreed, this will happen very rare with the reputed gambling sites. No gambling platform will leave its gamblers for any reason, as well as ruining the reputation for such reasons will surely create a negative opinion upon the site. There isn't transparency, but we can check the fairness. Until there arise an fault we can't question the gambling site.

[Google+]

If the reputable gambling website cheating the members, and the members know, they will get into the problem, and the member can chase the site with help from other people who know about the law. Yes, we don't know if the system cheats or not, but we can anticipate from the cheat by not using too big money for playing gambling.

But isn't the point of the Provably Fair system just to know for sure that everything is fair? As I understand it, any player with average technical knowledge/ability can check the fairness of the game on the history of their bets. I read that there are certain nuances and "loopholes" but in general the system works like this.

I think the gambling place that provides that sentence can be used to make players more sure about the betting system that is being carried out because usually when there is no writing like that the players think that the gambling place is manipulating the game, maybe that's what I know from the gambling place circulating at this time.

[qory]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

[noormcs5]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

You should check if the site offer you to verify the bets. If there is no option on the site to verify, then there is 80% chance that the site is not Provably Fair. I always try to play on sites which are transparent and offer to verify the games.

[Lordhermes]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

Most time the result gets upset to gamblers making them feeling negatively whether their plays is significant to right direction or not but the result had always gone in an opposite direction, sometimes it could be from the website setting that no winning should come from the gamblers and if gamblers should notice that, meanwhile should find the nearest exit because that's never a fair website. Observing the casino plays is a good step that's why I have always considered football betting option because results are fair.

[aioc]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

You should check if the site offer you to verify the bets. If there is no option on the site to verify, then there is 80% chance that the site is not Provably Fair. I always try to play on sites which are transparent and offer to verify the games.

This thread will helped a lot of gamblers and if they are promoting their referral links to promote a gambling site this is a big help they can promote how fair the site by letting them check the algo, gamblers are comfortable in playing in a site that is known as fair.

[JohnBitCo]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

You should check if the site offer you to verify the bets. If there is no option on the site to verify, then there is 80% chance that the site is not Provably Fair. I always try to play on sites which are transparent and offer to verify the games.

This thread will helped a lot of gamblers and if they are promoting their referral links to promote a gambling site this is a big help they can promote how fair the site by letting them check the algo, gamblers are comfortable in playing in a site that is known as fair.

I always feel comfortable in depositing money in the casino which are old ones and trusted. I do try new casino's but mostly play with the free money which they offer. Once I realize that the site is trustable, Provably Fair and no bad feedback reported, only then i deposit my money on those new gambling sites.

[arwin100]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

You should check if the site offer you to verify the bets. If there is no option on the site to verify, then there is 80% chance that the site is not Provably Fair. I always try to play on sites which are transparent and offer to verify the games.

This thread will helped a lot of gamblers and if they are promoting their referral links to promote a gambling site this is a big help they can promote how fair the site by letting them check the algo, gamblers are comfortable in playing in a site that is known as fair.

I always feel comfortable in depositing money in the casino which are old ones and trusted. I do try new casino's but mostly play with the free money which they offer. Once I realize that the site is trustable, Provably Fair and no bad feedback reported, only then i deposit my money on those new gambling sites.

I feel the same way to since I can leave for a while without worrying about my money at the old sites compare to those new where they don't have any reputation to break and anytime they can run since they already got the funds of their gamblers. So for this discussion about fairness its truly better for us to go on olds since the assurance is 100%.

But for news I still doesn't have any guts to deposit on then and I just monitored first if they are reliable and looking for promotion and marketing conducted by them since by this it could tell that the site have bright future.

[john_nautica]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

You should check if the site offer you to verify the bets. If there is no option on the site to verify, then there is 80% chance that the site is not Provably Fair. I always try to play on sites which are transparent and offer to verify the games.

This thread will helped a lot of gamblers and if they are promoting their referral links to promote a gambling site this is a big help they can promote how fair the site by letting them check the algo, gamblers are comfortable in playing in a site that is known as fair.

I always feel comfortable in depositing money in the casino which are old ones and trusted. I do try new casino's but mostly play with the free money which they offer. Once I realize that the site is trustable, Provably Fair and no bad feedback reported, only then i deposit my money on those new gambling sites.

I feel the same way to since I can leave for a while without worrying about my money at the old sites compare to those new where they don't have any reputation to break and anytime they can run since they already got the funds of their gamblers. So for this discussion about fairness its truly better for us to go on olds since the assurance is 100%.

But for news I still doesn't have any guts to deposit on then and I just monitored first if they are reliable and looking for promotion and marketing conducted by them since by this it could tell that the site have bright future.

Well said. It is more easy to rely and be assured with old sites, especially those sites that are long known to be fair and has clear record. IT is really a must to check on these new sites and also pay attention to the feedback of those people who had experienced with them to avoid making mistakes.

[KTChampions]

But isn't the point of the Provably Fair system just to know for sure that everything is fair? As I understand it, any player with average technical knowledge/ability can check the fairness of the game on the history of their bets. I read that there are certain nuances and "loopholes" but in general the system works like this.

I think the gambling place that provides that sentence can be used to make players more sure about the betting system that is being carried out because usually when there is no writing like that the players think that the gambling place is manipulating the game, maybe that's what I know from the gambling place circulating at this time.

In fact, all these fears of players came to gambling from earlier times when honesty was not controlled by mathematics and evidence, but by regulatory authorities (or no one at all) and, accordingly, there was a huge field for manipulation.

[peter0425]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

You should check if the site offer you to verify the bets. If there is no option on the site to verify, then there is 80% chance that the site is not Provably Fair. I always try to play on sites which are transparent and offer to verify the games.

This thread will helped a lot of gamblers and if they are promoting their referral links to promote a gambling site this is a big help they can promote how fair the site by letting them check the algo, gamblers are comfortable in playing in a site that is known as fair.

Good way of bringing new gamblers to the site who are willing to be check if they are using this system.

Trust will be established between, we as gamblers knows that trusted gambling house recieve more players supports.
The more they show how genuine the system is the more players / gamblers to join and play inside the house.

[Oilacris]

I really learned a lot reading from here I never thought that provably fair might be not fair as well, whenever I see a "Probably Fair" option in the tab or somewhere the casino I just thought that they are fair already I think I should now start checking the casino on where I am currently playing.

It might be shameful to say but i do accept nor i do have same impressions when i do see that provably fair tab where i do automatically believe that theyre fair just because you can
able to check it out but in most cases im not really that too much concern to verify things up as long i do see players then thats already a go.

It do really changes up my perception when i do read up this thread and it really open my eyes on how important on verifying things up and you would be that confident
that you are playing on a fair site.

From now on, i will change up that kind of behavior and starting to verify things up from time to time specially on newer sites.

[ethereumhunter]

If the reputable gambling website cheating the members, and the members know, they will get into the problem, and the member can chase the site with help from other people who know about the law. Yes, we don't know if the system cheats or not, but we can anticipate from the cheat by not using too big money for playing gambling.

But isn't the point of the Provably Fair system just to know for sure that everything is fair? As I understand it, any player with average technical knowledge/ability can check the fairness of the game on the history of their bets. I read that there are certain nuances and "loopholes" but in general the system works like this.

Yes, they can check the fairness, but not all gamblers can do that, and some of them are only want to play gambling without thinking about fairness or not. But they will search for the fairness of the game on that site by reading many sources, so they don't have to worry about fairness. It is good for people who can check the fairness of the game, so if they find something strange, they can show to people, and maybe they can get help from other people who can check the fairness.

[shoreno]

If the reputable gambling website cheating the members, and the members know, they will get into the problem, and the member can chase the site with help from other people who know about the law. Yes, we don't know if the system cheats or not, but we can anticipate from the cheat by not using too big money for playing gambling.

But isn't the point of the Provably Fair system just to know for sure that everything is fair? As I understand it, any player with average technical knowledge/ability can check the fairness of the game on the history of their bets. I read that there are certain nuances and "loopholes" but in general the system works like this.

Yes, they can check the fairness, but not all gamblers can do that, and some of them are only want to play gambling without thinking about fairness or not. But they will search for the fairness of the game on that site by reading many sources, so they don't have to worry about fairness. It is good for people who can check the fairness of the game, so if they find something strange, they can show to people, and maybe they can get help from other people who can check the fairness.

Playing without paying attention on other details is a suicide and it's similar to giving away your money to the strangers .

They play using their own money because they are also expecting for some return but if they don't like to verify their bets then  it's better if they will only use fake money or faucet money to play for fun  .

[Rune]

I have never verified provably fair bets but I was believing in it back when I used to gamble I feel stupid for that now.
I did only bet on the most reputuble sites Primedice and Bitsler  but still you should check the authenticity if your risking your money.
I now think its not only dangerous but stupid to gamble at all never mind do it with out verifying the bets I lost so much money gambling never again.
When you give these people your bitcoins you're thinking its only a few hundred dollars or whatever but its actually whatever bitcoin becomes worth in the future to. Feels bad to lose more bitcoin at casinos then I will ever make again.

[FontSeli]

But isn't the point of the Provably Fair system just to know for sure that everything is fair? As I understand it, any player with average technical knowledge/ability can check the fairness of the game on the history of their bets. I read that there are certain nuances and "loopholes" but in general the system works like this.

I think the gambling place that provides that sentence can be used to make players more sure about the betting system that is being carried out because usually when there is no writing like that the players think that the gambling place is manipulating the game, maybe that's what I know from the gambling place circulating at this time.

In fact, all these fears of players came to gambling from earlier times when honesty was not controlled by mathematics and evidence, but by regulatory authorities (or no one at all) and, accordingly, there was a huge field for manipulation.

Now sometimes you can also find gaming sites created by scammers. These sites do not exist for long, but they manage to deceive a certain number of people. Therefore, people who have passed through the hands of such scammers will be cautious about other online casinos.

[Saint-loup]

This is the biggest advantage of a provably fair online game casino, which is for users to verify the outcome of the game and not just suspecting that the casino is fabricating the result for their own good.

I haven't tried to verify a singe game of mine, but with the thread you just made, I think I will do it for my future bets. For most of the people who hardly understand this topic, I advise to study these terms first:

Hash Functions,
Cryptography,
SHA256,
SHA512,
Third Party Hash Applications

I'll rephrase how I understand the verification process:

What you need is to hash the unhashed seed from the server and client, then simply compare the hashes shown by the casino to the thirdparty hashing application.

You don't need to hash the client seed since it's your own. But in order to check the outcome you will have to run the game algorithm with your seed and the deciphered house seed.

[ethereumhunter]

Playing without paying attention on other details is a suicide and it's similar to giving away your money to the strangers .

They play using their own money because they are also expecting for some return but if they don't like to verify their bets then  it's better if they will only use fake money or faucet money to play for fun  .

Sometimes, they use fake money or faucet, but at the other time, they will deposit some money, but not to be used to gamble all day long. They can expect to get the win money, but they also need to win the games will need luck. And if the luck comes, no matter if the site is fair or not, you will win that. We can play without thinking about fairness if our reason for playing gambling is not chasing the money.

[finaleshot2016]

Verifying the bets will give you awareness and idea on the platform you are betting with so as a gambler, you must do things like this to be aware of your bets and secure your earnings.

But most of us don't do this kind of things, they'll just bet and leave the platform without observing how it works because they thought it'll be a waste of time.  

As a gambler, I am having a difficulty in verifying the fairness of every website that I was able to play even if they are giving an instruction on how we will be
able to check the fairness in their platform.

And I am wondering also if the script that they are giving can be altered easily just to cheat the players and they are just displaying the script just to say that they
are fair. And with regards to client and server seed, I am very poor about it even if you are giving a good example to it.

For a reputable gambling website, they won't cheat to their member or they will lose their members if somehow, their members know about that. That gambling site will tell that they are fair enough to their members, and even, they can invite people to try to test their script to know if they are fair or not. I never think about fair or not because I don't play gambling as other people. And for me, as long as I can play without any problem, that will be fair.

How can we say that even a reputable gambling website won't cheat its users? we don't know because the system isn't transparent. So definitely, there are part of this that cheating really occurs sometimes on reputable or non-reputable platforms and we aren't aware of that.

[BuNga_cute]

For me, verify every bet is really troublesome, I'm a gambler who doesn't care about fairness issues on the gambling site.
As long as the gambling sites I use are popular and provide the features and games I want, I don't care about their system
is it provably fair or not.

[Lanatsa]

For me, verify every bet is really troublesome, I'm a gambler who doesn't care about fairness issues on the gambling site.
As long as the gambling sites I use are popular and provide the features and games I want, I don't care about their system
is it provably fair or not.

This is my first time on hearing out someone do tell that they dont care about legitimacy or fairness of the site.lol. Of course we do really care because its just dumb

for you to make deposits if you arent sure if the site you are dealing with is fair.At least even if you do lose then you do know that you have lost in a fair way which wont really give any

some feeling of regret or being angry just because you had been rigged but somehow on the quality and in talks of popularity then a certain site wont really reach that
state if they arent fair in the first place.

There are gamblers who are really keen on checking out.

[travwill]

That’s a lot of numbers to crack for you to know if its fair, and if you are just playing to have fun then you don’t have time to know if its a real fair or not. Someone will work on that, those who gamble seriously should make sure that the site is fair to you and fair on giving details of your games. Probably fair really exist, top gambling site is making sure to be fair to remain a reputable gambling site.

But we are talking about blockchain. One way or another, we can do a check inside the network, and there are special algorithms for this. I have never trusted regular online casinos because their source code is closed and we cannot be sure of anything. But blockchain allows for a different way of looking at these things. Why configure the system in such a way that someone would lose more if initially all factors are arranged in this way. The probability of losing is always slightly less than the probability of winning.

[KTChampions]

In fact, all these fears of players came to gambling from earlier times when honesty was not controlled by mathematics and evidence, but by regulatory authorities (or no one at all) and, accordingly, there was a huge field for manipulation.

Now sometimes you can also find gaming sites created by scammers. These sites do not exist for long, but they manage to deceive a certain number of people. Therefore, people who have passed through the hands of such scammers will be cautious about other online casinos.

As you correctly noted, these are one-day projects and they are unlikely to deceive anyone for serious sums - software development, website launch, advertising (even illegal) are expensive compared to the earnings they will have time to get. Therefore, for purely economic reasons, such projects either live very little or do not appear at all.

[FontSeli]

In fact, all these fears of players came to gambling from earlier times when honesty was not controlled by mathematics and evidence, but by regulatory authorities (or no one at all) and, accordingly, there was a huge field for manipulation.

Now sometimes you can also find gaming sites created by scammers. These sites do not exist for long, but they manage to deceive a certain number of people. Therefore, people who have passed through the hands of such scammers will be cautious about other online casinos.

As you correctly noted, these are one-day projects and they are unlikely to deceive anyone for serious sums - software development, website launch, advertising (even illegal) are expensive compared to the earnings they will have time to get. Therefore, for purely economic reasons, such projects either live very little or do not appear at all.

Now the fight against scams on our forum is much better than a few years ago. However, this does not stop scammers who launch more and more crypto projects and sites in order to earn as much as possible before they are exposed.
And if I gave them my money, I will be cheated by them. Then they will be called scammers, this will save other people's money, but I will never be able to get my money back.

[spike420211]

For me, verify every bet is really troublesome, I'm a gambler who doesn't care about fairness issues on the gambling site.
As long as the gambling sites I use are popular and provide the features and games I want, I don't care about their system
is it provably fair or not.

Your position is quite clear, I am sure it coincides with the position of the majority.
But you must understand that the need for an honesty check, as a rule, arises if it seems to you that you have been deceived.

It is in this case that such functionality will be extremely useful.
In addition, those platforms on which there is the possibility of verification are much more credible than those on which it is not. This is the quality standard.

[AicecreaME]

Wow, this is a very nice explanation with simple, but detailed terms about how provably fair works.

This would be a beneficial thread especially for the not technically inclined people who wants to understand provably fair's nature.

With this, gamblers would be more wary of their actions when placing their bets so they won't be cheated on. Because like what you said, it's usually the human's tendency to neglect some parts and only consider a few like the starting part and end of the code given to them.

Verifying and making sure of getting the same server hash before placing a bet should definitely be a gambler's duty to notice if there's some kind of anomalies going on so they could report it and make proper actions.

[MFahad]

But isn't the point of the Provably Fair system just to know for sure that everything is fair? As I understand it, any player with average technical knowledge/ability can check the fairness of the game on the history of their bets. I read that there are certain nuances and "loopholes" but in general the system works like this.

I think the gambling place that provides that sentence can be used to make players more sure about the betting system that is being carried out because usually when there is no writing like that the players think that the gambling place is manipulating the game, maybe that's what I know from the gambling place circulating at this time.

In fact, all these fears of players came to gambling from earlier times when honesty was not controlled by mathematics and evidence, but by regulatory authorities (or no one at all) and, accordingly, there was a huge field for manipulation.

Now sometimes you can also find gaming sites created by scammers. These sites do not exist for long, but they manage to deceive a certain number of people. Therefore, people who have passed through the hands of such scammers will be cautious about other online casinos.

A simple rule is to stay away from the new casinos and play at the old ones. People play at new casino because they are either attracted by the interface of the new site or they want to gather the promotions and bouns which the new site offers. Remember that a site who want to scam will give you a very attractive promotion offers.

[KTChampions]

A simple rule is to stay away from the new casinos and play at the old ones. People play at new casino because they are either attracted by the interface of the new site or they want to gather the promotions and bouns which the new site offers. Remember that a site who want to scam will give you a very attractive promotion offers.

It seems to me that this is the only reason why players enter a new casino. As you know, all new projects are forced to give bonuses much higher than average in order to attract the public. But at the same time, if the bonus is too high, then it is very suspicious and scares off experienced players. A funny paradox 

[FontSeli]

Now sometimes you can also find gaming sites created by scammers. These sites do not exist for long, but they manage to deceive a certain number of people. Therefore, people who have passed through the hands of such scammers will be cautious about other online casinos.

A simple rule is to stay away from the new casinos and play at the old ones. People play at new casino because they are either attracted by the interface of the new site or they want to gather the promotions and bouns which the new site offers. Remember that a site who want to scam will give you a very attractive promotion offers.

All casinos give bonuses, especially to new players. This is how they attract new players and try to make sure that they always play there.
However, players should remember that the size of bonuses is limited by the profit of casinos, which can not give all bonuses at a loss, they also need to earn. Therefore, the size of bonuses must be adequate and can't be much more than in similar casinos.

[Debonaire217]

Now sometimes you can also find gaming sites created by scammers. These sites do not exist for long, but they manage to deceive a certain number of people. Therefore, people who have passed through the hands of such scammers will be cautious about other online casinos.

I have encountered some(Of course I didn't entertain them) but I read posts like this, they are promoting these kind of sites and is acting like they are one of the staffs. They goes like this telegram, they will message you and and once you reply, they will promise you a great profits saying that they have control over the outcome of the casino.

Some functionality of the site is working such as the games and deposit. It also seems like you are winning in the games but the problem will come when you try to withdraw your funds, either is not working, or they will ask you to deposit more in order to withdraw.

First of all, in the very start of the conversation, the site is not reputable already because of having these kind of staffs if they really have, in addition, knowing that the staffs have control to the outcome is a complete destruction of the reputation of the games. Not provably fair, and just made to scam people around.

[In the silence]

This was the best explaination about server seed, client seed and nonce ive seen since i was wondering what this means when i was playing long time ago.

What i did then was always changing the server seed every bet, that was my strategy but dont have knowledge how it works. I even create new account just to change my luck then, it gives me a fresh new start. 

[webtricks]

This was the best explaination about server seed, client seed and nonce ive seen since i was wondering what this means when i was playing long time ago.

What i did then was always changing the server seed every bet, that was my strategy but dont have knowledge how it works. I even create new account just to change my luck then, it gives me a fresh new start.  

I'm really glad that you liked it. Within a week, a new and well-detailed article on Provably Fair will be published on BTCgosu.com in which everything will be explained in more details and in completely non-technical language.

It will be complemented with a Provably Fair Tool where user can verify the fairness of 33 casinos at single place.

I will publish the update here as well, once article and tool will be live on btcgosu. Stay tuned!

[Saint-loup]

This was the best explaination about server seed, client seed and nonce ive seen since i was wondering what this means when i was playing long time ago.

What i did then was always changing the server seed every bet, that was my strategy but dont have knowledge how it works. I even create new account just to change my luck then, it gives me a fresh new start.  

I think it's a good strategy to set your own client seed each time, because instead you've to trust the game code and/or your browser randomness... But more importantly, it's funnier 

[Triffin]

But isn't the point of the Provably Fair system just to know for sure that everything is fair? As I understand it, any player with average technical knowledge/ability can check the fairness of the game on the history of their bets. I read that there are certain nuances and "loopholes" but in general the system works like this.

I think the gambling place that provides that sentence can be used to make players more sure about the betting system that is being carried out because usually when there is no writing like that the players think that the gambling place is manipulating the game, maybe that's what I know from the gambling place circulating at this time.

In fact, all these fears of players came to gambling from earlier times when honesty was not controlled by mathematics and evidence, but by regulatory authorities (or no one at all) and, accordingly, there was a huge field for manipulation.

Now sometimes you can also find gaming sites created by scammers. These sites do not exist for long, but they manage to deceive a certain number of people. Therefore, people who have passed through the hands of such scammers will be cautious about other online casinos.

This is really bad but the reality is that in our life there are so many scamming sites that we will have to avoid to stay safe and I think the only way is that we should not open Every website without proper research as many of them are fake. I am feeling bad to say but I also been a victim of this thing so people who check and verify the game before investing stay safe. There are so many resources Search on Google if you feel the site is scam just reported and don’t gamble with them.

[webtricks]

Big Update

In order to promote fairness in Crypto Gambling World, I in association with BTCGOSU have built the biggest Provably Fair Script Verification Tool.

With this tool, you can verify the bets on on our website and ensure that you are not being cheated by the casinos. Currently we have covered 25 casinos and 49 games. However, we are open to include more in future. So if you think there's a casino which is claiming to be Provably Fair but you aren't so sure, just request the name of casino in this thread: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5262141.0 and we will add it to our tool.

Visit the tool now: https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/

[webtricks]

BUMP!

Wanna read more about provably fair? Check this article on BTCGosu: https://www.btcgosu.com/provably-fair/

[acener]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

[Russlenat]

BUMP!

Wanna read more about provably fair? Check this article on BTCGosu: https://www.btcgosu.com/provably-fair/

Thanks for sharing, worth a read. 

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

Verifying if the games are Provably Fair is very important, but I don't really do that all the time or every time I bet, one verification is enough for me, as long as the site is reputable, I believe they would not do stupid things that could harm their reputation.

[tippytoes]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

I only verify one or 2 bets in new casinos. But if I am playing with known casino here, I don't usually check the provably fairness because in my mind, if they are screwing players, then it should have been exposed already by veteran players. But in any case, this thread is very useful to gamblers if they want to check the validity of the provably fairness system of the casino. I'll be bookmarking this topic on my end. Thanks much!

[Lordhermes]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

Verily, I have never verify a specific gambled bets before, to me especially, I just only enjoy playing bets as long as the site is a legit one without bothering and caring to check the fairness of the bets. However, it's a better thing to practice what op is really talking about to observe a successful end on our bets. Thanks op for sharing this with us.

[CarnagexD]

Most people like living off the edge thinking that a single varifier cannot dictate their winnings or losses when it can literally save you from unfair losses rigged by the server and the gambling site itself. Casinos do that thing where they check every game before letting people play it, why has it all of a sudden become "inconvenient" for you guys to verify the credibility of your bets.

[just_Alice]

I'm not believing in to probably fair system because in real life there are less possibility for continue losing streak but in almost all the to gambling houses continue losing streaks are happening most commonly. This makes we need much more improvements/developments to fine-tune so that those provably fair mechanism will be actually fair for all of us.

Honestly I'm not familiar with SHA algorithms and hashing or unhashing things which makes me unable to verify my betting.
I believe gambling houses must work on simplifying these things so that even non-computer literature people also will be able to verify them with just one click.

If you don't believe in provably fair - you probably don't understand it. This system is, perhaps, the only thing that can actually verify that a certain gambling website isn't a scam. When online casinos first started appearing lots of them were scams and back then it would be wiser to trust real-life casinos over virtual ones. But now it's quite the opposite, thanks to provably fair.

I'll try to explain it as I understand it and make it as simple as possible. Imagine that you're playing a game where you, say, have to guess a word, you tell what's your guess to a certain person and he'll then tell you if your guess is right or wrong. But how do you know if he isn't lying? In order to prove his fairness, he's holding a tablet with the encrypted right answer and, let's say, there's a certain encryption algorithm named "HAAA" that encrypts letters in numbers. And then, for instance, the word is GRASS and after performing the "HAAA" encryption you only see a set of numbers. Let's say, the following equivalents are designed within the algorithm: G is 8, R - 2, A - 4, S - 9, so what you see on the tablet is 82499 - the result of encryption. But the example I gave you is very simple and one might think that anyone can get the right answer from the numbers, but here's the coolest and very important thing about SHA256 - it only hashes one-way: you can encrypt with it, but you can't decrypt. So, what you need to do next is to go to a trusted third party that does encryptions and ask them to encrypt the word GRASS with the "HAAA" algorithm and see if they get you the set of numbers that was on the tablet. If the numbers are the same (82499 in this case) - it proves that the word was GRASS.
That's about it, hope you'll believe it now

[FinneysTrueVision]

I don't verify every single bet because that would be too time consuming. If a website isn't transparent and doesn't make it easy to verify then I do go out of my way to verify as many rolls as I can to see if I am being cheated. Sometimes you can find mistakes and sometimes you can see that some sites are outright scamming. One time FreeBitco.in had a mistake in their lambo drawing and had to redo it after it was discovered. A site that many people believe is scamming would be Coinpot which if you go through recent posts in their unofficial Bitcointalk thread you will see that people are saying that the results shown on the website don't match the provably fair formula.

[magneto]

Unfortunately, most people still don't do this. I'm guilty of it too.

Is it at all possible to create a script that runs in the background as a provably fair checker for every bet automatically? Perhaps a Chrome extension would have a wider reach and help more people verify their bets than a site where you'd have to manually copy over your seeds.

It might sound paranoid but I think it's worth it to protect ourselves. Who knows if a casino has gone rogue at any point.

[matchi2011]

Most people like living off the edge thinking that a single varifier cannot dictate their winnings or losses when it can literally save you from unfair losses rigged by the server and the gambling site itself. Casinos do that thing where they check every game before letting people play it, why has it all of a sudden become "inconvenient" for you guys to verify the credibility of your bets.

Casinos needs to make sure that each bets are fairly being executed as they wanted to assure gamblers thier credibilities.
In order to gather trust casino owners deal with this first before launching their business.

Most of the time gamblers are dealing with some concern as they are thinking that something is not fair from the game that
they've been so they resort everything to get the details.

[webtricks]

Unfortunately, most people still don't do this. I'm guilty of it too.

Is it at all possible to create a script that runs in the background as a provably fair checker for every bet automatically? Perhaps a Chrome extension would have a wider reach and help more people verify their bets than a site where you'd have to manually copy over your seeds.

It might sound paranoid but I think it's worth it to protect ourselves. Who knows if a casino has gone rogue at any point.

It is possible to make 'Chrome Extension' like you said but it won't be of much help. In order to calculate the result and verify bet, user has to change the seeds to reveal the previous server seed. Extension won't do that automatically (also it is advisable to manually set client seed). So in order for extension to work, you have to manually change the client seed after every bet. Once, client seed is changed, extension can get the seed data from 'My bets' column and calculate results.

So yeah, it is possible to automate part of the process (i.e. you don't have to manually paste the seeds) but whole process can't be automated (i.e. you still have to change the seeds manually).

[Bitcoin Smith]

In the beginning stage everyone do not know how ICU and where is the best place to to find and do some kinds of verification in gambling field but after some experience it will definitely is there for everyone to find which is the best verified betting option it will also suits for everyone.

[fullhdpixel]

Most people like living off the edge thinking that a single varifier cannot dictate their winnings or losses when it can literally save you from unfair losses rigged by the server and the gambling site itself. Casinos do that thing where they check every game before letting people play it, why has it all of a sudden become "inconvenient" for you guys to verify the credibility of your bets.

Look I understand we should verify our bets but this is how I think. If a casino is actually rigging rolls they must be very selective with their rigging because if they rigged every roll on the website they will be caught within minutes. So if they are being selective and rigging rolls for users who they know make fast bets and probably don't verify then there is no chance they will rig my rolls because I make manual bets and I usually don't ever use autobet even when I am applying a strategy I use manual betting.

Also my bet size is small and it would be seriously idiotic of them to scam me for $5-10 and lose all their reputation they have built by spending so much money and probably paying out 1000x bigger bets than me.

[Emitdama]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

Every site is a trusted and well known casino until they are found cheating and busted open by a member who has the time and knowledge to verify their bets. I also bet on reputed sites like primedice but I don't hesitate to verify the bets because it is our duty to ensure the system is working as it is meant to be and yeah the casino have their reputation but it takes minutes to verify.

I don't verify each and every bet though because it becomes a menace to do that and impossible to enjoy when I verify each bet.

Wanna read more about provably fair? Check this article on BTCGosu: https://www.btcgosu.com/provably-fair/

Thanks for the link, it definitely helps new members always!

[seoincorporation]

BUMP!

Wanna read more about provably fair? Check this article on BTCGosu: https://www.btcgosu.com/provably-fair/

That's a nice article, all the casinos listed there are trusted sites. But some of them have a complex provably fair engine.

I don't like the sites who have a shared nonce and not an individual one, to be more clear, some casinos use the total number of bets on the casino to estimate the bet result while others use the total of your own bets.

[webtricks]

BUMP!

Wanna read more about provably fair? Check this article on BTCGosu: https://www.btcgosu.com/provably-fair/

That's a nice article, all the casinos listed there are trusted sites. But some of them have a complex provably fair engine.

I don't like the sites who have a shared nonce and not an individual one, to be more clear, some casinos use the total number of bets on the casino to estimate the bet result while others use the total of your own bets.

Can you give me example of the casinos using this shared nonce method? I wasn't able to fully understand which site or provably fair mechanism you are referring to. If you could give me the name, I can look into it in detail and determine whether the provably fair script of such casino is actually fair or not. If not then I will notify about the same to the casino and insist them to improve the same.

Also, the article is written by me but the list of casinos is added by BTCGosu (@efialtis). But like you said all of them are trusted so I guess efialtis has done adequate due diligence before adding them to the GOSU. Nevertheless, if I found discrepancy in the script, I will inform about the same to efialtis too so that he can remove the said casino from the list. 

[Sebas.tian]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

More reasons why we don't verify bets before play. Personally i had experienced much on this gambling industry and have come to that junction where i only play with trusted platforms to avoid verify games before play. Most of my gambling platforms are those i have trusted for sometime now and need not to verify before gambling. It's my hardest to play with newly launched gambling platforms at the moment becasue many doesn't have fair platform for their gamblers. 

[Serious475]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

You should start verifying every bet that you are doing because verifying is not hard to do and it will make your chance of winning bigger and you won't get disappointed if you lose since you've done all you can. I i were you, I will makes sure that the thing I am going to spend my money is for everyone just like making your own online casino because it is the most demand for all the crypto users and it can be an entertaining for those who are addicted to the gambling.

[Jemzx00]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

You should start verifying every bet that you are doing because verifying is not hard to do and it will make your chance of winning bigger and you won't get disappointed if you lose since you've done all you can. I i were you, I will makes sure that the thing I am going to spend my money is for everyone just like making your own online casino because it is the most demand for all the crypto users and it can be an entertaining for those who are addicted to the gambling.

If you're gambling to mainly earn and focus only on winning then you're right to verify each and every bet you make. You can study the algorithm and fact check every bet you do especially if you're doubting the site you are gambling on to predict the next bet you'll do. But not all are there to bet and verify as it won't as much fun as just playing your money and winning on pure chance and luck which trigger us to play more and more until we win a lot or lose em' all.

[Fatunad]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

You should start verifying every bet that you are doing because verifying is not hard to do and it will make your chance of winning bigger and you won't get disappointed if you lose since you've done all you can. I i were you, I will makes sure that the thing I am going to spend my money is for everyone just like making your own online casino because it is the most demand for all the crypto users and it can be an entertaining for those who are addicted to the gambling.

If you're gambling to mainly earn and focus only on winning then you're right to verify each and every bet you make. You can study the algorithm and fact check every bet you do especially if you're doubting the site you are gambling on to predict the next bet you'll do. But not all are there to bet and verify as it won't as much fun as just playing your money and winning on pure chance and luck which trigger us to play more and more until we win a lot or lose em' all.

If you are really that meticulous into things then you would surely verify into those bets and see if its fair or not.There are really people who are really keen or serious
when it comes to their money.They do want that even if they do lose then they lose in a fair way not on a manipulative or being that cheated.
Majority of people wont really care or wont have this kind of behavior because they do just simply stick out to those reputable or known ones and presuming that theyre
dealing with a fair site which does actually have some point because people wont stick into a place if they do find out if somethings fishy is happening.

[traderethereum]

Nope I don't verify every bets as a gambler I just enjoy every round as much as I could.
Besides I only play on trusted and well known gambling sites I don't want to play on new sites that doesn't have much info or player.

You should start verifying every bet that you are doing because verifying is not hard to do and it will make your chance of winning bigger and you won't get disappointed if you lose since you've done all you can. I i were you, I will makes sure that the thing I am going to spend my money is for everyone just like making your own online casino because it is the most demand for all the crypto users and it can be an entertaining for those who are addicted to the gambling.

If you are playing gambling because of the search for fun and not thinking about winning or fairness, you don't have to verify every bet because that will reduce your enjoyment in playing the games.
But you can verify by yourself to find out if their system is fair or they cheat on you, so you can report to the support system if you found it.
I think verifying the system is fair or not will need to spend some time to check, and not all people want to do that.
But if the gambling site is recommended and many gamblers trust that site, we don't have to suspicious about them because they won't do something negative that will make their members leave them.
The thing that can make us disappointed is when we lose our money in gambling, making us feel sad.

[Wexnident]

Oh nice, I liked the explanation for provably fair for some games in the bottom part. I first thought it was just a site that listed sites that you guys verified as provably fair, glad that there was at the very least an explanation below, even if lengthy not that I understand most, especially when we're talking about seeds, but I'll try to

More reasons why we don't verify bets before play. Personally i had experienced much on this gambling industry and have come to that junction where i only play with trusted platforms to avoid verify games before play. Most of my gambling platforms are those i have trusted for sometime now and need not to verify before gambling. It's my hardest to play with newly launched gambling platforms at the moment becasue many doesn't have fair platform for their gamblers. 

Well as long as it's trusted, not only by you but also by others, then not testing it strictly should be more than enough imo. Testing for Provably fair should only happen mostly in new casinos, to test if they're still following it properly, and most other sites would only be tested maybe once a month? There are tens of thousands of players on each casino anyway, there's probably at least one or two people out there that check the hashes to see if it matches.

[toast]

one of the most helpful thread i've read not only that but also the link on your personal text i even visited that, this is really helpful for the community and for the newbie user of the cryptocurrency.

[Shasha80]

~snip~

~snip~

If you are playing gambling because of the search for fun and not thinking about winning or fairness, you don't have to verify every bet because that will reduce your enjoyment in playing the games.
But you can verify by yourself to find out if their system is fair or they cheat on you, so you can report to the support system if you found it.
I think verifying the system is fair or not will need to spend some time to check, and not all people want to do that.
But if the gambling site is recommended and many gamblers trust that site, we don't have to suspicious about them because they won't do something negative that will make their members leave them.
The thing that can make us disappointed is when we lose our money in gambling, making us feel sad.

I agree with you, if we play gambling for entertainment purposes, usually do not think about fairness. So we don't need to check
every bet we have done to find out the fairness of the gambling site. Moreover, we do choose gambling sites that are popular and
trusted, so gambling sites reputation is guaranteed well. Because gambling sites have a good reputation, I believe they will be fair,
so there is no need to verify fairness.

[Pasnik]

This thread is really helpful specially if you a new in gambling and not familiar to other gambling or betting site. And I think we have different choices in terms about gambling site the importance is you know the terms and conditions of the sites.

[peter0425]

This thread is really helpful specially if you a new in gambling and not familiar to other gambling or betting site. And I think we have different choices in terms about gambling site the importance is you know the terms and conditions of the sites.

And also they must be reputable and legit because we don't know when we will be lucky and when we may have a chance to get a jackpot.

So in case that the casino is legit then we are guaranteed of claiming the wins,Because if this is illegal then the chance of having the pot is at risk as they can just run away.

[South Park]

I agree with you, if we play gambling for entertainment purposes, usually do not think about fairness. So we don't need to check
every bet we have done to find out the fairness of the gambling site. Moreover, we do choose gambling sites that are popular and
trusted, so gambling sites reputation is guaranteed well. Because gambling sites have a good reputation, I believe they will be fair,
so there is no need to verify fairness.

You do not have to check every single bet, if you are the kind of gambler that always bets the same amount no matter what then as long as you verify some of those bets on each session and each one of them is what you expect then there is a very good chance that the rest of the best are also fine and you have nothing to worry about, now if you are a gambler that likes to make some big bets from time to time then those are precisely the ones you need to verify as a dishonest casino will most likely try to cheat you on those kind of bets.

[Fatunad]

I agree with you, if we play gambling for entertainment purposes, usually do not think about fairness. So we don't need to check
every bet we have done to find out the fairness of the gambling site. Moreover, we do choose gambling sites that are popular and
trusted, so gambling sites reputation is guaranteed well. Because gambling sites have a good reputation, I believe they will be fair,
so there is no need to verify fairness.

You do not have to check every single bet, if you are the kind of gambler that always bets the same amount no matter what then as long as you verify some of those bets on each session and each one of them is what you expect then there is a very good chance that the rest of the best are also fine and you have nothing to worry about, now if you are a gambler that likes to make some big bets from time to time then those are precisely the ones you need to verify as a dishonest casino will most likely try to cheat you on those kind of bets.

Stick to those who do have lots of players because that do already indicates that the online casino you've been dealing with is a fair one.
For those gamblers who are big bettors then its neither they are fan on trying out something new sites or places.Its up to someone because
not all would really be having on the same mindset on where some do just go with the herd and some do want to risk up into some new place.
Verifying is a must but most of people arent really minding on verifying from time to time.

[traderethereum]

I agree with you, if we play gambling for entertainment purposes, usually do not think about fairness. So we don't need to check
every bet we have done to find out the fairness of the gambling site. Moreover, we do choose gambling sites that are popular and
trusted, so gambling sites reputation is guaranteed well. Because gambling sites have a good reputation, I believe they will be fair,
so there is no need to verify fairness.

That is right because they only want to search for fun and not think about the negative side that may or could happen to the game.
They want to enjoy the game in their free time, while they don't have much time to playing gambling.
If we can choose the recommended gambling site and popular site, we don't have to worry because it will give their best to their members.
Yes, they will be fair to all of their members for their reputations.

[btc78]

I agree with you, if we play gambling for entertainment purposes, usually do not think about fairness. So we don't need to check
every bet we have done to find out the fairness of the gambling site.

Even if we are just Playing for Fun always consider the fairness because We are spending money here so it is deserving tobe fair and legit.
Because chances of winning is always there and we might win the jackpot if very lucky.

Moreover, we do choose gambling sites that are popular and
trusted, so gambling sites reputation is guaranteed well. Because gambling sites have a good reputation, I believe they will be fair,
so there is no need to verify fairness.

Well not all are there to find reputable and popular site sometimes we are aiming to try newer gambling site for experience and other entertainment place to enjoy.

[Salauddin1994]

Gambling is usually based on experience although gambling for entertainment does not require checking every bet it often requires the right idea it is not possible to choose an alternative method of gambling without experience. There are many popular gambling sites that do not need to be verified everyone plays according to their choice and enjoys gradually they can choose the best betting site.

[bitterguy28]

Gambling is usually based on experience although gambling for entertainment does not require checking every bet it often requires the right idea it is not possible to choose an alternative method of gambling without experience. There are many popular gambling sites that do not need to be verified everyone plays according to their choice and enjoys gradually they can choose the best betting site.

maybe at first specially if the Site is new to us,better check the Fairness of the gambling site by checking how fair are they.
This is for our own benefits because we must not give consent to Cheater ,remember how much Money is involve here,,Maybe we are small players but what about those who spend thousand and millions ,they deserve to be treated fairly.

[Pamadar]

Gambling is usually based on experience although gambling for entertainment does not require checking every bet it often requires the right idea it is not possible to choose an alternative method of gambling without experience. There are many popular gambling sites that do not need to be verified everyone plays according to their choice and enjoys gradually they can choose the best betting site.

maybe at first specially if the Site is new to us,better check the Fairness of the gambling site by checking how fair are they.
This is for our own benefits because we must not give consent to Cheater ,remember how much Money is involve here,,Maybe we are small players but what about those who spend thousand and millions ,they deserve to be treated fairly.

Precisely! at first you need to check if how relaibale and fair the site.

Using small amount to try and see if the house owner is honest with each results that you tried using their service, most of the time
every gamblers who already find comfort inside the site  no longer or not taking that much time to check as they already entrust everything
to the site reputation.

[yazher]

This thread is really helpful specially if you a new in gambling and not familiar to other gambling or betting site. And I think we have different choices in terms about gambling site the importance is you know the terms and conditions of the sites.

To know more about the provably fair script is brilliant because this must be known especially when you want to try to play on some new gambling site where they say their games have the provably fair script on them. Some of them might just be saying it but it's not real, they're faking it in other words. so we must better know this guide to clear our doubt about the new gambling site.

[JohnBitCo]

one of the most helpful thread i've read not only that but also the link on your personal text i even visited that, this is really helpful for the community and for the newbie user of the cryptocurrency.

I never cared if the casino is provably fair or not because i mostly play on trusted sites and i believe that they are provably fair ones. However OP has given a nice way to check the sites for its fairness.
Also i hope that they will include more sites in the gambling list in the future.

[Lanatsa]

one of the most helpful thread i've read not only that but also the link on your personal text i even visited that, this is really helpful for the community and for the newbie user of the cryptocurrency.

I never cared if the casino is provably fair or not because i mostly play on trusted sites and i believe that they are provably fair ones. However OP has given a nice way to check the sites for its fairness.
Also i hope that they will include more sites in the gambling list in the future.

Just like what others said that we do simply just stick out to those sites that have lots of people were playing on where you can presume that they are really that fair.

Verifying bets is a must but not all would really be having the time even doing that basic thing because they do just simply make out deposit and directly play.

In my part then I do stick with this kind of principle.

[FinneysTrueVision]

UPDATE (31/08/20): BTCGOSU has launched a biggest third-party provably fair verifier tool where you can verify bets for over 25 casinos in single page. Check out now: https://www.btcgosu.com/tools/provably-fair-verifier/

There are some casinos which make it especially difficult to verify your bets. These are the ones to avoid. Being transparent is fundamental when determining the legitimacy of a place where you are putting your money at risk. People who are blindly trusting casinos and never verify are only asking to be scammed. It is great that these third party tools are being made easily available to us.

[michellee]

one of the most helpful thread i've read not only that but also the link on your personal text i even visited that, this is really helpful for the community and for the newbie user of the cryptocurrency.

I never cared if the casino is provably fair or not because i mostly play on trusted sites and i believe that they are provably fair ones. However OP has given a nice way to check the sites for its fairness.
Also i hope that they will include more sites in the gambling list in the future.

Yes, that will be better, especially if we don't try to make money from gambling. As long as we can playing gambling at the recommended gambling site and that site is popular, we don't have to bother about provably fair or not because they will care about that. If the @OP can give more sites in his gambling list, it will allow gamblers to play gambling at many sites.

Some gamblers are still trying to check provably fair at many casinos because they are worried if the casino cheats them when they busy playing gambling. Maybe that will spend more time to check one by one of the sites, and I don't think that if the site is clean from cheat, they will not do that in the future. That can happen if we play on the site, which is not recommended.

[Debonaire217]

There are some casinos which make it especially difficult to verify your bets. These are the ones to avoid. Being transparent is fundamental when determining the legitimacy of a place where you are putting your money at risk. People who are blindly trusting casinos and never verify are only asking to be scammed. It is great that these third party tools are being made easily available to us.

Perhaps, it is just their front to make sure that they could get some gamblers to play on their platform. It is quite easy to say that their platform is really provably fair, but it is hard at the end for the gamblers to really verify if the outcomes are clear and fair. Most of the time, when they see transparent codes, they might already trust the platform without really understanding the logic behind it, and if the platform does really give a fair game. But honestly, they will hide the trick in the logic of the game and will not really visible for short term games. Anyways, there's always a need for us who play the game to understand the concept of verifying provably fair games, thanks to OP who opened this thread as it will help the gamblers to submit their claim whenever they found out that the casino is misbehaving in the way they should be.

[proTECH77]

Yes, I always verify my bet in the gambling center which is really helping me to see some error in my gambling to be corrected immediately in the gambling center. During the pandemic, it hard me to win most of my bet just because I don't verify my bet before playing them, which has been causing me serious lose during the pandemic.
Since we came out from pandemic, I always verify my bet before playing them to see some error to be correct in the gambling center before playing the game which is really helping me to win most of my game since we came out from pandemic.

[fortunecrypto]

Well not all are there to find reputable and popular site sometimes we are aiming to try newer gambling site for experience and other entertainment place to enjoy.

Why not it's ok to support up and coming gambling sites, we are a small community and we need new players in the gambling casinos industry to strengthen the industry, but we must be careful in picking new gambling casinos, I prefer new gambling casinos that can launch a signature campaign, this is to assure the gambling community that they are serious in making their presence felt and wants to be competitive.

[bitbollo]

I verify each time I lose since I am scary there was a trick.
what I learned from a bad experience with a dice site (bet king) is that if a site make a decision (like deleting a promotion without reason) you can't do anything...
so if they are already cheating rolling verification ( I remember just one case to be honest another site some years ago) there isn't to much to do

[Ryker1]

Well, this topic should always be available and accessible not only in this forum on every gambling site as well for it is really helpful to gamblers in understanding how the provable fair really works. I must admit that I only have a minimal idea about it but because of this thread, --I can identify now if I am being cheated or not, and somehow identify my chances of winning in every game that I will be placing my bet. I just wonder how a gambling site would react if their players could identify their provable fair especially to those who have hidden agenda on their casinos.

[Wawa2013]

Looking for a fair gambling site is one of the criteria that I am looking for, therefore I will verify every bet on the gambling site that I use.
To make sure the provably fair actually goes according to what each gambling site promised. It's not that hard to check a provably fair anyway,
there are many tutorials scattered on the internet.

[GeorgeJohn]

Really not all my bet I verify, in fact its very very rare to see someone who verify he or her bet but verification of bet is a tangible ideology for serious gambler's so it will enable them to avoid losing games via gamble, and it's obvious that if a gambler is one hundred percentage (100%) people playing bet and is obvious that is only ten percentage out of hundred people will have the ideas of verification of bet. I think these ideas of verification is a welcomed development in terms of gambling.

[carlfebz2]

Well not all are there to find reputable and popular site sometimes we are aiming to try newer gambling site for experience and other entertainment place to enjoy.

Why not it's ok to support up and coming gambling sites, we are a small community and we need new players in the gambling casinos industry to strengthen the industry, but we must be careful in picking new gambling casinos, I prefer new gambling casinos that can launch a signature campaign, this is to assure the gambling community that they are serious in making their presence felt and wants to be competitive.

Im not really seeing that having signature campaign would be a solid indication about seriousness of a certain gambling site business because they might not have signature
campaign on this forum but they are active on other promotions that had been done on other ways like social media etc.

This market is vastly open when it comes to new services and platforms do come out even though the competition is really very high and the chance of success isnt really that high
due to lots of competitors but it isnt really worth to try as a business owner.

When it comes on verifying bets then most like this do happen on initial phase but when initial players had already proven out
that the site is fair then most of next players wont really be minding much on verifying everything.

[Astvile]

I don't find the need to verify each bet I makes in the most site I play in because most of them are the most popular and reputable gambling websites online right now. Having a site that is established in the gambling world in the internet I feel confident that each bets I make with them is fair and square. But whenever I'm gonna play on a newly opened website this is where I feel the need that I must check the sites fairness before playing in there just to prove if they are really offering a fair service.

[Crptomagma]

It’s unfortunate that the internet is full of so many scam gambling scheme and it’s important to verify every bet as  gamblers it’s really going to painful to be ripped of a fund intended to used to gamble. There are lots of scam gambling site in the internet and it’s necessary to look out for these fake site so one don’t fall victim.

Well I have seen a handful of people who will prefer to play gamble in newly developed gamble site than the well reputable site. In their opinion they believe playing gamble in a newly developed gambling site gives them more odds and advantage to win but IK all its important to see the site fairness before venturing.

[asus09]

It’s unfortunate that the internet is full of so many scam gambling scheme and it’s important to verify every bet as  gamblers it’s really going to painful to be ripped of a fund intended to used to gamble. There are lots of scam gambling site in the internet and it’s necessary to look out for these fake site so one don’t fall victim.

Well I have seen a handful of people who will prefer to play gamble in newly developed gamble site than the well reputable site. In their opinion they believe playing gamble in a newly developed gambling site gives them more odds and advantage to win but IK all its important to see the site fairness before venturing.

I get different cases in my country almost gambling site have been scam or block by government, so have looking for new way with active VPN for log in to gambling site. Maybe with scam gambling site depend how popular is it and never interest with new gambling site without have good reputation, only active on old site gambling like stake, primedice and betnomi because on this forum very popular above gambling site. I not brave to try with new gambling site because worry when deposit success and we win on betting but could not cash out our money from gambling site, so keep use with popular gambling site for playing.

[webtricks]

one of the most helpful thread i've read not only that but also the link on your personal text i even visited that, this is really helpful for the community and for the newbie user of the cryptocurrency.

I am glad you guys are finding the thread helpful. However, the link in my personal text i.e. NotYourKeys.org is not my site. Credit where credit's due - the site belongs to the forum user - 'cryptosec.info'. He posted the ANN here: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5287314.0.

I noticed the site in mk4's personal text, opened it and find it very interesting. Single page, simple explanation on the importance of using non-custodial wallet. So, I added it to my personal text as well.

Few days later, the user even created avatar and personal text campaign for the site here : https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5292109.msg55653235#msg55653235

[pankowri]

I am not sure if I can check or verify the gambling site from the OP guide as I am only playing gambling on a random day, and I don't need to check to details. I don't know much about the provable system, but that is a good guide that will be useful for someone who wants to verify by themselves. However, I think the provable system itself is fair for every member, and I don't think that the reputable gambling site will cheat their members because that will have a bad effect on the website itself.

Mostly you are similar with me that I also playing gambling on random day whenever I have some free time then I use it as entertainment purposes and I am leaning.

You mentioned that reputed gambling sites will never cheat with their customers. Why they would do that? They have real customer base and they are successful to make their project, so it is a platform which is not easy to make a better one. It's common thing, their has legal license to do business. They will not cheat with their customer.

[Russlenat]

Yes, I always verify my bet in the gambling center which is really helping me to see some error in my gambling to be corrected immediately in the gambling center. During the pandemic, it hard me to win most of my bet just because I don't verify my bet before playing them, which has been causing me serious lose during the pandemic.
Since we came out from pandemic, I always verify my bet before playing them to see some error to be correct in the gambling center before playing the game which is really helping me to win most of my game since we came out from pandemic.

I do not often check or say rarely do it just because in the end its a luck in many games which help you win it. Also, what is the outcome like how many times were you able to report the error of the total bets you verified because at times you may bet a lot like in dice etc so cannot go and verify each bet.

If you make like 100 bets, I think that's 100 times of verification, it's too time consuming, a reputable site would not attempt to scam their bettors, otherwise they will loss their opportunity to make money. In games like luck based games, sites always offers a way to verify it's fairness, but I believe majority of the bettors would not bother to verify their bets, unless maybe they risk a big amount of money in a bet.

[South Park]

Gambling is usually based on experience although gambling for entertainment does not require checking every bet it often requires the right idea it is not possible to choose an alternative method of gambling without experience. There are many popular gambling sites that do not need to be verified everyone plays according to their choice and enjoys gradually they can choose the best betting site.

maybe at first specially if the Site is new to us,better check the Fairness of the gambling site by checking how fair are they.
This is for our own benefits because we must not give consent to Cheater ,remember how much Money is involve here,,Maybe we are small players but what about those who spend thousand and millions ,they deserve to be treated fairly.

This is true, when we verify our bets not only we are doing it for ourselves we are doing it for every single member of the community that can be saved of losing their money unfairly in a casino that has decided to cheat, and if we happen to discover some irregularity even if it is too late for us we can warn the community about it in most likely save a person a lot of money and on the long term this kind of attitude will help us to begin to clean the community from scammers.

[Lanatsa]

Gambling is usually based on experience although gambling for entertainment does not require checking every bet it often requires the right idea it is not possible to choose an alternative method of gambling without experience. There are many popular gambling sites that do not need to be verified everyone plays according to their choice and enjoys gradually they can choose the best betting site.

maybe at first specially if the Site is new to us,better check the Fairness of the gambling site by checking how fair are they.
This is for our own benefits because we must not give consent to Cheater ,remember how much Money is involve here,,Maybe we are small players but what about those who spend thousand and millions ,they deserve to be treated fairly.

This is true, when we verify our bets not only we are doing it for ourselves we are doing it for every single member of the community that can be saved of losing their money unfairly in a casino that has decided to cheat, and if we happen to discover some irregularity even if it is too late for us we can warn the community about it in most likely save a person a lot of money and on the long term this kind of attitude will help us to begin to clean the community from scammers.

People would really be having that kind of reaction or some sort of responsibility on telling the public about the possible rigging off some websites games and would able to warn
others so that they wont be losing money if they do decide to make a deposit.

Some people do test out waters with small amounts specially if a new one and do give out feedback when they do observe something
unusual.

Unless if you do like for others to lose money then that would be an unethical thing to be done.

[traderethereum]

Yes, I always verify my bet in the gambling center which is really helping me to see some error in my gambling to be corrected immediately in the gambling center. During the pandemic, it hard me to win most of my bet just because I don't verify my bet before playing them, which has been causing me serious lose during the pandemic.
Since we came out from pandemic, I always verify my bet before playing them to see some error to be correct in the gambling center before playing the game which is really helping me to win most of my game since we came out from pandemic.

I do not often check or say rarely do it just because in the end its a luck in many games which help you win it. Also, what is the outcome like how many times were you able to report the error of the total bets you verified because at times you may bet a lot like in dice etc so cannot go and verify each bet.

If you make like 100 bets, I think that's 100 times of verification, it's too time consuming, a reputable site would not attempt to scam their bettors, otherwise they will loss their opportunity to make money. In games like luck based games, sites always offers a way to verify it's fairness, but I believe majority of the bettors would not bother to verify their bets, unless maybe they risk a big amount of money in a bet.

Maybe if we are playing gambling on a reputable site, we can do that because the site will not try to cheat their members.
Once the site is caught doing that, they will lose their members and of course, they will lose their opportunity to make money.
But in the new gambling site, we don't have to verify if we only gamble for fun.
Not many gamblers who use a big amount of money to gamble will verify every bet because some will think that is time-consuming.
If they verify their bets, that mean they can not enjoy their time playing gambling games.

[Yudhisthir]

Maybe if we are playing gambling on a reputable site, we can do that because the site will not try to cheat their members.
Once the site is caught doing that, they will lose their members and of course, they will lose their opportunity to make money.
But in the new gambling site, we don't have to verify if we only gamble for fun.
Not many gamblers who use a big amount of money to gamble will verify every bet because some will think that is time-consuming.
If they verify their bets, that mean they can not enjoy their time playing gambling games.

I agree that it's not worth verifying every bets if you are on reputable gambling site. But you should never gamble on a site whether new or old that does not provide the way for proving the legitimacy of the bet. Even if you are playing for fun. Any gambling site that are not provably fair should be avoided. Proving the fairness is the basic precursor for legitimacy.

[john_nautica]

Never though that BTCGOSU have these kind of verifier and it covers most of the casinos. Now I would be able to check whether my bets are fair or not most of the time when I was losing I was feeling cheated and this would be a great way to verify them.

[pungopete468]

Never though that BTCGOSU have these kind of verifier and it covers most of the casinos. Now I would be able to check whether my bets are fair or not most of the time when I was losing I was feeling cheated and this would be a great way to verify them.

It was released few months ago and yes you can check it in Btcgosu I really like that verifier since sometimes I don't trust the built-in verifier from the website I'm playing luckily I can double check it here in this third party verifier.

[carlfebz2]

Never though that BTCGOSU have these kind of verifier and it covers most of the casinos. Now I would be able to check whether my bets are fair or not most of the time when I was losing I was feeling cheated and this would be a great way to verify them.

Yeah, among all of the sites that do have reviews then theres no doubt that BTCGOSU did really make a good job on doing these things.

This isnt something like that we do typically see on a site which do only focuses on ref links or what. You can verify bets which arent that are
mostly integrated on most sites.

Same like others im not really that too confident on satisfied if they do say that theyre fair.

[Gotumoot]

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

[traderethereum]

Maybe if we are playing gambling on a reputable site, we can do that because the site will not try to cheat their members.
Once the site is caught doing that, they will lose their members and of course, they will lose their opportunity to make money.
But in the new gambling site, we don't have to verify if we only gamble for fun.
Not many gamblers who use a big amount of money to gamble will verify every bet because some will think that is time-consuming.
If they verify their bets, that mean they can not enjoy their time playing gambling games.

I agree that it's not worth verifying every bets if you are on reputable gambling site. But you should never gamble on a site whether new or old that does not provide the way for proving the legitimacy of the bet. Even if you are playing for fun. Any gambling site that are not provably fair should be avoided. Proving the fairness is the basic precursor for legitimacy.

But still, some gamblers will do that to convince themselves about the provably fair.
It will not be a problem for them because they want to know for themselves, but they will not take it seriously for a regular gambler.
Many people who consider gambling are entertainment will not bother about that because they don't think hard about that.
You can avoid playing gambling on a gambling site that doesn't have a reputation or in the new gambling site because you don't know if that site has provably fair or not.

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

I guess that is because we are an unlucky gambler that makes us lose money, so be careful if you play gambling.
As long as you don't play at a gambling site that doesn't have a reputation, you will not have to worry about manipulating the game.
But the gambling site can manipulate the game without we know.

[bitterguy28]

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

Only Ponzi gambling side will do that Mate because the foundation of every online gambling sites are to prove their fairness(though not that total fair as 50/50) because gamblers specially those Whales and Bigtime gambler in which the main target of gambling businesses can analyze and find that Cheat and if they do then for sure they will only gain small time gamblers that soon will also leave them for being a cheater.

[Mauser]

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

It's good that you want to verify your bets yourself now. I agree with you that we need to cautious especially with new casinos. If you do find a manipulated bet please make a screenshot and share with all of us on the forum. There are many gamblers on the forum here and if we identify not legit games immediately we can protect others here. Once someone raises the red flag on the forum there will be many other gamblers taking a good look.

[matchi2011]

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

It's good that you want to verify your bets yourself now. I agree with you that we need to cautious especially with new casinos. If you do find a manipulated bet please make a screenshot and share with all of us on the forum. There are many gamblers on the forum here and if we identify not legit games immediately we can protect others here. Once someone raises the red flag on the forum there will be many other gamblers taking a good look.

Yes, sharing it will also save those other gamblers around. All of us here wanted to have a fair gambling experienced, if you find something
with the site, sharing it here will exposed everything.

Also, it will add more investigations coming from co-forum members and gamblers as they also wanted to help out in exposing any unfair tactics or system from the gambling house that involves facilitating with kinds of actions.

[Debonaire217]

It's good that you want to verify your bets yourself now. I agree with you that we need to cautious especially with new casinos. If you do find a manipulated bet please make a screenshot and share with all of us on the forum. There are many gamblers on the forum here and if we identify not legit games immediately we can protect others here. Once someone raises the red flag on the forum there will be many other gamblers taking a good look.

Especially if many members here supported the claim as they also experience the same thing with the gambling site, it is likely that the gambling site will be reported and lose its reputation to many cryptocurrency gamblers all over the world. That is why we should understand what provably fair casinos are. We need to know how to verify if it is really legit not just believing as we saw the "provably fair" listed on the site. There are chances that new casinos will claim this but if we know how to verify, they will not be able to cheat with people right away.

[Crptomagma]

It’s important gamblers verify their bet. I’m betting it is important one take precautions and be sure of the source that provides the gamble platform. Well I agree it’s not all necessary to verify the bet but that’s of you are sure the site is reputable with lots of testimonials.

[South Park]

Maybe if we are playing gambling on a reputable site, we can do that because the site will not try to cheat their members.
Once the site is caught doing that, they will lose their members and of course, they will lose their opportunity to make money.
But in the new gambling site, we don't have to verify if we only gamble for fun.
Not many gamblers who use a big amount of money to gamble will verify every bet because some will think that is time-consuming.
If they verify their bets, that mean they can not enjoy their time playing gambling games.

I agree that it's not worth verifying every bets if you are on reputable gambling site. But you should never gamble on a site whether new or old that does not provide the way for proving the legitimacy of the bet. Even if you are playing for fun. Any gambling site that are not provably fair should be avoided. Proving the fairness is the basic precursor for legitimacy.

While it is unlikely that a site that has a good reputation is going to suddenly begin to scam its customers, at the same time we should verify ourselves that everything is fine, as you say playing in a casino that is not probably fair should not be an option, but what it is the point of playing in a casino that allows you to verify your bets if you are never going to do it? I am not saying that you should verify all your bets but at least verify some of them from time to time.

[Saint-loup]

While it is unlikely that a site that has a good reputation is going to suddenly begin to scam its customers
-snip

Be careful, if the owner of the casino sells it to someone else without saying it, you can get bad surprises even if the casino had a good reputation. Provably fairness doesn't protect against exit scams.

[maydna]

It’s important gamblers verify their bet. I’m betting it is important one take precautions and be sure of the source that provides the gamble platform. Well I agree it’s not all necessary to verify the bet but that’s of you are sure the site is reputable with lots of testimonials.

Not really. If people playing gambling don't search for the money, they don't have to verify their bet. They will only want to enjoy the game without thinking of that. They will think that to verify their bet will need more time, and they will spend longer because their reason for playing gambling is just to having fun and enjoy the gambling games. I don't verify my bet too, and I am only just playing the games, enjoy it for some time, and stop it right away before I lose more money. If you want to verify your bet, you are free to do, but you need to think about how long you will stay on the gambling games and how much money you will spend.

[bitterguy28]

While it is unlikely that a site that has a good reputation is going to suddenly begin to scam its customers
-snip

Be careful, if the owner of the casino sells it to someone else without saying it, you can get bad surprises even if the casino had a good reputation. Provably fairness doesn't protect against exit scams.

what would be the owner of casino selling to someone else?i don't get it sorry ..

They are talking about the verification of Each bets for the sake of checking if the site is Fair so what is the selling issue?

and also reputable Casino's are very carful in each steps because a simple mistake may lead to their negative feeds and reaction from betting public.

So why would they do stupidity when they are Bagging Money for staying firm and fair?

[xSkylarx]

Not really. If people playing gambling don't search for the money, they don't have to verify their bet. They will only want to enjoy the game without thinking of that. They will think that to verify their bet will need more time, and they will spend longer because their reason for playing gambling is just to having fun and enjoy the gambling games. I don't verify my bet too, and I am only just playing the games, enjoy it for some time, and stop it right away before I lose more money. If you want to verify your bet, you are free to do, but you need to think about how long you will stay on the gambling games and how much money you will spend.

Same for me, I gamble to reduce the stress after hours of work, and verifying each bet also take some time. I just enjoy the outcome of the game either I win or lose.
People that verifies their bet take gambling seriously, ofcourse you won't go to some unknown or not famous website to gamble some big amount of money so those popular or top rated websites are fair on their customers so I don't think you should be afraid if they are fooling you.

[XZERO1]

Verifying every single bet is one of those things that I do when I just started gambling using a new website and I normally won't do that for the rest of the time.

Just like many others in the topic mentioned it's a bit time consuming and it can get in a way of enjoying your experience, I get that why some still do it to make sure the games they're playing is fair but in my opinion you should go for the casino websites that you trust the most whether it's based on their reputation and popularity or it's based on your own past good experience with that casino, that way you can be a bit more comfortable gambling and have an actual good time instead of just constantly verifying your bets.

[kramchers]

Provably Fair Script is one of the basic element of online gambling, especially for crypto based casinos. However, most of the gamblers don't give dime about it while some don't even know what is it and how it operates. I started crypto gambling in 2016 and didn't know about Provably Fair for most of my initial gambling days. But believe me in the absence of Provably Fair, you are not gambling, you are just being cheated by the house.

The basic idea of this thread is to share my views on PF script and how to make most out of it. I have spent few weeks developing unique logic for Provably Fair script for upcoming gambling site clubbing it with blockchain technology. While developing it, I visited around 20 casinos and tried their PF script to understand current practice. However, this thread is not about my script but about current practice.

If you are in this section, you probably have heard about Provably Fair script and may be verifying your bets too. But have you ever tried to understand the logic behind it? If not, let me give a brief explanation on how Provably Fair system works.

Different gambling sites use different Provably Fair implementation however the basic idea is to generate a random number based on three factors: client seed, server seed and nonce.

Client seed: It can be anything. It is up to player to choose anything as his client seed. For example, I can use 'webtricksClientSeed' as my client seed or 'thisIsMyRandomClientSeed'. However, while choosing client seed make sure three things:
(i) Always choose new seed for new bet (never try same client seed with new server seed).
(ii) Don't choose easily identifiable seeds like I mentioned above (close your eyes and type random numbers and alphabets. I do like this and it works ).
(iii) Site will generate random client seed for you but don't use it. Always choose your own.

Server Seed: It is generated by server. Server will choose random string of random length and convert it to sha256 hash which will provided to you. For example, if server picks 'thisIsRandomSeed' as server seed then this will be provide you: 45006cccc7e44ee0b6c0752469de2fe1ad6bff589fb789bfb60773224cf2cc0a.
Since sha256 is one-way hashing you will know sha256 hash before making bet but you cannot decipher server seed before betting. The site will show you unhashed server seed once you change your seeds. Then you can verify that the sha256 hash of server seed is similar to what was presented to you before bet.

Nonce: In context of Provably Fair, nonce is mostly regarded as the number of times you have made bet with the combination of same client and server seed. For example, if I make two bets with 'ClientSeed' as client seed and 'ServerSeed' as server seed then the result of bet will be generated on the basis of 'ClientSeed+1+ServerSeed' for first bet and 'ClientSeed+2+ServerSeed' for second bet.

Here is graphical illustration of what I just said:

(Some people say my drawings are as good as Picasso's.)

Now coming to how results are driven from these seeds. As I said earlier, different sites use different logic to determine result. However, there is one basic logic which is being used by around 80% of the casinos, notably Fortunejack, PrimeDice, Bitsler etc. This is how it works:

Step 1: First of all let's assume three variables. Server seed = 'ServerSeed', client seed = 'ClientSeed' and nonce = 1. Now we have to use hmac authentication by hashing our variables using sha512 hashing algorithm. Server seed will serve as a secret key to generate hash while client seed and nonce will be used as an input like this: 'ClientSeed-1' or 'client seed - nonce'.

Step 2: So the hash of the above seeds will look like this: 671e7387e26fa724d089521805430866b29f6849ad2928a26e5ed01101f72f57883b972f20f9464 d99ab13c2adcf37bd955863c69697739628d70969adba1ab3

Step 3: Not going into technical term and by simply sticking to layman's language, we have to take first 5 characters of hash i.e. 671e7. Now we have to convert these 5 characters from hex value to integer value which will be: 422375.

Step 4: If the integer value is between 0 and 1million (1,000,000) then it's ok. But if it is more than or equal to 1M then we will use next 5 characters from hash. But since in our case, 422375 is less than 1000000 so this number will determine the result.

Step 5: In this step, we will simply divide the value with 10000 and take the remainder for next step. In our case, 422375 when divided by 10000 will leave 2375 in remainder which will be consider for final step.

Step 6: In this step, we will simply divide the remainder by 100 and this will determine the final result. In our case it will be 23.75. This should match the dice roll. If not then site is most probably cheating you.


Now coming to the most important part. Probably this part is the main reason why I created this thread. Although, the above system is foolproof but site owners can easily fool you if you ain't paying enough attention. So here are the few points you should consider while gambling:

(i) Always copy server seed hash shown to you before betting.
(ii) After bet is complete, create new client seed. Make sure server seed is also changed along with it.
(iii) Once new client seed is created, site will show you unhashed server seed of previous bet. Copy it and convert it to sha256 hash using some third party online tool.
(iv) Match the server seed hash that you copied in step (i) to the one generated in step (iii) and make sure both are exactly same.

Two days ago, I tested my code with few people. I shown them different server seed hash before bet and after bet I kept first 6 characters same, last 3 characters same and few similar characters in the middle. It took just 30-40 seconds for my machine to generate such hash. With more powerful machine, I can speed up the process and create more matching characters. To my surprise, none of the tester noticed that they were shown different server hash before and after bet. It is human tendency that they only consider few letters (probably starting and ending ones) when presented random word like hexadecimal hash. So with bare eyes, no one was able to notice the difference. So be safe and make sure you verify every bet you make. Being a coding enthusiast, I can assure you that it is very much possible that house can easily manipulate results without player even noticing.

Another thing you can do is to use cross-casinos verification. For example, Fortunejack and Bitsler use same script, you can verify your fortunejack bets using bitsler's verification script.

I have been playing in an online betting website for the past couple of weeks but still have not won even a single time. It made me suspect that the site is rigged and that unless their bots say so, we wouldn't be able to get profits from them. I'll try to use your procedures just to confirm my claim as if it is true then they are fooling hundreds of thousands of gamblers rihht now to a game we virtually have no way or chance at winning. So I thank you for this. Help like these should be much readily available in this channel as gambling is the riskiest thing you could do with bitcoin.

That was really strength dude, for a couple of weeks you never experience to win. Perhaps there is something fishy going to that site
platform and you found out that there is something wrong. Well, I guess I need to try this one too, even this is the first time I discovered this one I will surely apply later, thanks for this anyway.

[maydna]

~snip~

Same for me, I gamble to reduce the stress after hours of work and verifying each bet also takes some time. I just enjoy the outcome of the game either I win or lose.
People that verifies their bet take gambling seriously, of course, you won't go to some unknown or not famous website to gamble some big amount of money so those popular or top rated websites are fair on their customers so I don't think you should be afraid if they are fooling you.

If we can enjoy gambling games without thinking much about the outcome, we will not have a problem stopping anytime.

I am afraid that people who verify their bet will take a long time in the gambling games, which we should avoid. If we stay at a gambling place for a long time, the passion for playing gambling will become big, leading us to spend more money.

Perhaps, people verify their bet on the unknown or not famous website to know if they can prove that they are provably fair to their members. After they get the result, they can share it with other people, so they can know if they can play on that site or not.

[Reatim]

If we can enjoy gambling games without thinking much about the outcome, we will not have a problem stopping anytime.

Well if we only want  to enjoy at anytime we can stand and quit,even how much money we still have and losses we have given.

I am afraid that people who verify their bet will take a long time in the gambling games, which we should avoid. If we stay at a gambling place for a long time, the passion for playing gambling will become big, leading us to spend more money.

Because at some point we will surely chase our losses specially if we have tallied them and very frustrating seeing them not coming back in your pocket.

Perhaps, people verify their bet on the unknown or not famous website to know if they can prove that they are provably fair to their members. After they get the result, they can share it with other people, so they can know if they can play on that site or not.

But checking will only take place for a couple of time because gamblers usually wanted a quick flow of their bets and don't want to have more hassles.

[maydna]

If we can enjoy gambling games without thinking much about the outcome, we will not have a problem stopping anytime.

Well if we only want  to enjoy at anytime we can stand and quit,even how much money we still have and losses we have given.

The problem will come to us if we think more about the losses that we've got because that can turn us to chase the losses, and we can't quit easily.

I am afraid that people who verify their bet will take a long time in the gambling games, which we should avoid. If we stay at a gambling place for a long time, the passion for playing gambling will become big, leading us to spend more money.

Because at some point we will surely chase our losses specially if we have tallied them and very frustrating seeing them not coming back in your pocket.

That experience will come to us if we play gambling for a long time. Although we enjoy the games, on another side, we feel frustrated about the losses, making us try to chase the losses. Once we think about pursuing the losses, that will become our time to lose more without we realize.

Perhaps, people verify their bet on the unknown or not famous website to know if they can prove that they are provably fair to their members. After they get the result, they can share it with other people, so they can know if they can play on that site or not.

But checking will only take place for a couple of time because gamblers usually wanted a quick flow of their bets and don't want to have more hassles.

Perhaps, that is right. But you know what, the gamblers will have the curiosity to check and make sure that everything is run wells and nothing suspicious. They will try to check again because they don't want to see a cheat by the site.

[iamsheikhadil]

Thanks to these I can now verify my bets when I have time.
I do feel that some gambling site are manipulating the game so we could now know if they are really doing it or we are just really unlucky gambler for losing continuously.

Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

[coin-investor]

Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

Honestly, I'm ok with losing as long as I'm losing because I'm having a bad day, not because my bet is manipulated, I hate the thought that  I lose my money because I found out that the site I'm playing is rigged even a small amount is not good if I am cheated, I am ok losing big bucks as long as I lose it fair and square.

[kotajikikox]

Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

Honestly, I'm ok with losing as long as I'm losing because I'm having a bad day, not because my bet is manipulated, I hate the thought that  I lose my money because I found out that the site I'm playing is rigged even a small amount is not good if I am cheated, I am ok losing big bucks as long as I lose it fair and square.

Check the Fairness of each gambling site though we can't really tell unless we make our own observation if how they let people win and lose.

We have same principle as i don't want being cheated ,i would rather lose too much in fair game than losing a penny in cheater.

Check Roobet.Com if you want a Legit and fair gaming.

[jademaxsuy]

Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

Honestly, I'm ok with losing as long as I'm losing because I'm having a bad day, not because my bet is manipulated, I hate the thought that  I lose my money because I found out that the site I'm playing is rigged even a small amount is not good if I am cheated, I am ok losing big bucks as long as I lose it fair and square.

Check the Fairness of each gambling site though we can't really tell unless we make our own observation if how they let people win and lose.

We have same principle as i don't want being cheated ,i would rather lose too much in fair game than losing a penny in cheater.

Check Roobet.Com if you want a Legit and fair gaming.

There are other few good gambling platform actually and I am seeing few of the gambling sites that are provably fair. Checking of course is an obligation to the gambler but whether we like it or not the casino has the house edge and that will turn their earnings over a period of time as you go along play with it. However, the best part when gambling is not only about winning instead it is also about how you play, get excited and and having fun. This is why it is advisable to every gambler to limit self like betting only the money that can be afforded to lose.

[carlisle1]

There are other few good gambling platform actually and I am seeing few of the gambling sites that are provably fair. Checking of course is an obligation to the gambler but whether we like it or not the casino has the house edge and that will turn their earnings over a period of time as you go along play with it. However, the best part when gambling is not only about winning instead it is also about how you play, get excited and and having fun. This is why it is advisable to every gambler to limit self like betting only the money that can be afforded to lose.

Yeah we must check it ourself about how fair the casino is and what is their reputation status.

Though some times since the casino is popular and being played by more reputable members here,We tend not to check this because the players will tell you how fair they are why being visited and played by gambling enthusiast.
Like Your Signature Betnomi is showing good in gambling area now,same as what mentioned above you Roobet. and many more that i don't want to lay all.

[ethereumhunter]

There are other few good gambling platform actually and I am seeing few of the gambling sites that are provably fair. Checking of course is an obligation to the gambler but whether we like it or not the casino has the house edge and that will turn their earnings over a period of time as you go along play with it. However, the best part when gambling is not only about winning instead it is also about how you play, get excited and and having fun. This is why it is advisable to every gambler to limit self like betting only the money that can be afforded to lose.

As long as you can enjoy, be excited, and having fun in the gambling games, you don't need to verify your bets because that will need more time to check and you can lose the fun time to play more gambling games. So that makes you know how much money you will need to gamble and don't let you use more money because if you lose the money, that will feel too sad.

[Crptomagma]

There are many many reasons to verify every bet. I have been through some ugly experience in the past in gambling and to be sure I’m not being manipulated I try to verify the source and tendency of the bet.

[South Park]

Verifying every single bet is one of those things that I do when I just started gambling using a new website and I normally won't do that for the rest of the time.

Just like many others in the topic mentioned it's a bit time consuming and it can get in a way of enjoying your experience, I get that why some still do it to make sure the games they're playing is fair but in my opinion you should go for the casino websites that you trust the most whether it's based on their reputation and popularity or it's based on your own past good experience with that casino, that way you can be a bit more comfortable gambling and have an actual good time instead of just constantly verifying your bets.

It is fine to be this careful at the beginning when you are trying a casino for the first time but it is not necessary to go to those extremes for the rest of your gambling journey, if you make 200 rolls of a dice in a session as long as you verify 5% to 10% of a random selection of rolls and it turns out to be that everything is in order then you can have a great degree of confidence that things are fine in the casino and that you can keep gambling there with no problem at all.

[Fredomago]

Verifying every single bet is one of those things that I do when I just started gambling using a new website and I normally won't do that for the rest of the time.

Just like many others in the topic mentioned it's a bit time consuming and it can get in a way of enjoying your experience, I get that why some still do it to make sure the games they're playing is fair but in my opinion you should go for the casino websites that you trust the most whether it's based on their reputation and popularity or it's based on your own past good experience with that casino, that way you can be a bit more comfortable gambling and have an actual good time instead of just constantly verifying your bets.

It is fine to be this careful at the beginning when you are trying a casino for the first time but it is not necessary to go to those extremes for the rest of your gambling journey, if you make 200 rolls of a dice in a session as long as you verify 5% to 10% of a random selection of rolls and it turns out to be that everything is in order then you can have a great degree of confidence that things are fine in the casino and that you can keep gambling there with no problem at all.

A matter of your self judgement, if you feel that the casino are decent and seems that random results are taking place then continuing is not be an issue, you are free to enjoy and comfortly played, some are curious after hitting long losing streak the reason why they are checking the fairness of the site.

If you are okay with those results of yours and comfortable with the game house you are using this matter won't be a
big deal for you.

[michellee]

Verifying every single bet is one of those things that I do when I just started gambling using a new website and I normally won't do that for the rest of the time.

Just like many others in the topic mentioned it's a bit time consuming and it can get in a way of enjoying your experience, I get that why some still do it to make sure the games they're playing is fair but in my opinion you should go for the casino websites that you trust the most whether it's based on their reputation and popularity or it's based on your own past good experience with that casino, that way you can be a bit more comfortable gambling and have an actual good time instead of just constantly verifying your bets.

It is fine to be this careful at the beginning when you are trying a casino for the first time but it is not necessary to go to those extremes for the rest of your gambling journey, if you make 200 rolls of a dice in a session as long as you verify 5% to 10% of a random selection of rolls and it turns out to be that everything is in order then you can have a great degree of confidence that things are fine in the casino and that you can keep gambling there with no problem at all.

Carefully will need while you gamble and don't lose that before you end your time playing gambling. We do not need to verify almost all of our bets, but we could only verify some bets, so we don't lose our time to verify the bet. If you can play gambling on a reputable gambling site, you do not need to verify because they will not do something suspicious or even cheat you or other members.

[shoreno]

A matter of your self judgement, if you feel that the casino are decent and seems that random results are taking place then continuing is not be an issue, you are free to enjoy and comfortly played, some are curious after hitting long losing streak the reason why they are checking the fairness of the site.

long red streaks usually occur if you play on higher odds and a gambler must be aware of that and not that they are going to judge a betting site especially if its really trusted and i bet that if they win they dont bother get curious of the results and verify it

 but is that even possible that a result wont match after you verify a winning bet ? that would be verry strange if it occurs and salute to those bettors that still checks thier winning bets and not just the loosing ones .

[Becky666]

Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

Honestly, I'm ok with losing as long as I'm losing because I'm having a bad day, not because my bet is manipulated, I hate the thought that  I lose my money because I found out that the site I'm playing is rigged even a small amount is not good if I am cheated, I am ok losing big bucks as long as I lose it fair and square.

Check the Fairness of each gambling site though we can't really tell unless we make our own observation if how they let people win and lose.
We have same principle as i don't want being cheated ,i would rather lose too much in fair game than losing a penny in cheater.
Check Roobet.Com if you want a Legit and fair gaming.

Well, many gamblers doesn't care much about the fairness of a platform if they definitely fell in love with such casino, sometimes in the past, i used to gambled with some platforms which were known to be cheaters but becasue of their games attractions i care-less, most of us doesn't care about their fairness, though this could have be our ability to detect a true fairness casino.

[Genemind]

Well, over the long time you are bound to lose because of mathematical odds against you by the house-edge of the casino. When I had long losing streaks before, I used to think that the casino is rigged and then I understood it was just that the site is rigged while it was my bad luck. But yeah, you should know how to verify bets for your own safety, because scam casinos also exist lmao.

Honestly, I'm ok with losing as long as I'm losing because I'm having a bad day, not because my bet is manipulated, I hate the thought that  I lose my money because I found out that the site I'm playing is rigged even a small amount is not good if I am cheated, I am ok losing big bucks as long as I lose it fair and square.

Check the Fairness of each gambling site though we can't really tell unless we make our own observation if how they let people win and lose.
We have same principle as i don't want being cheated ,i would rather lose too much in fair game than losing a penny in cheater.
Check Roobet.Com if you want a Legit and fair gaming.

Well, many gamblers doesn't care much about the fairness of a platform if they definitely fell in love with such casino, sometimes in the past, i used to gambled with some platforms which were known to be cheaters but becasue of their games attractions i care-less, most of us doesn't care about their fairness, though this could have been our ability to detect a true fairness casino.

It is not just that, most gamblers are not familiar with how provably fair works and how to verify it. I admit that I am one of them. As long as a casino is trusted and has no other issues it is fine with me. Losing is part of any gamble. But losing in a platform for most of your bet, you'll know it even with a gut feeling that something is not right, then keep away from it.

[ice098]

It is not just that, most gamblers are not familiar with how provably fair works and how to verify it. I admit that I am one of them. As long as a casino is trusted and has no other issues it is fine with me. Losing is part of any gamble. But losing in a platform for most of your bet, you'll know it even with a gut feeling that something is not right, then keep away from it.

I am a type of a gambler that i used to check the reputation of one casino by just reading the reviews of the casino, its performance and its considerably to the clients or gamblers, legal or registered and allowed to operate legally and no issues were already fine to me. And yes losing in gambling were already a part of it thats why we are here to keep reminder to each and everyone to rake risks only the amount that we are willing to lose just because we didn't know how to plat in provably fair game.

[Questat]

I am a type of a gambler that i used to check the reputation of one casino by just reading the reviews of the casino, its performance and its considerably to the clients or gamblers, legal or registered and allowed to operate legally and no issues were already fine to me. And yes losing in gambling were already a part of it thats why we are here to keep reminder to each and everyone to rake risks only the amount that we are willing to lose just because we didn't know how to plat in provably fair game.

Same here, I trust the site that I'm gambling with so I don't have to check its fairness in every bet I make.
Reputation is very important to them, if they will scam people that will end their profitable business, so do you think they'll do that?

Actually there's plenty of reputable sites here, just gamble with them and you'll be alright, and those sites who have a verifier, they are good to gamble with.

[bitterguy28]

I am a type of a gambler that i used to check the reputation of one casino by just reading the reviews of the casino, its performance and its considerably to the clients or gamblers, legal or registered and allowed to operate legally and no issues were already fine to me. And yes losing in gambling were already a part of it thats why we are here to keep reminder to each and everyone to rake risks only the amount that we are willing to lose just because we didn't know how to plat in provably fair game.

Same here, I trust the site that I'm gambling with so I don't have to check its fairness in every bet I make.
Reputation is very important to them, if they will scam people that will end their profitable business, so do you think they'll do that?

And this is the best way to do in online gambling always use the sites you trusted and also trusted by many legit accounts here and not those shilling one.

Actually there's plenty of reputable sites here, just gamble with them and you'll be alright, and those sites who have a verifier, they are good to gamble with.

Like our Signature mate ,in which we will be safer every time we played on those or in sites that we have known to be reputable ever since,

[plr]

If you are a whale or a high roller it's important that you check or verify your bets not really all of the bets but a random bets will do so you can trust the gambling site more, but it's time consuming if you are going to verify each bet it will take away the fun, just do random verification, so you will not miss the fun.

[newwest]

If you are a whale or a high roller it's important that you check or verify your bets not really all of the bets but a random bets will do so you can trust the gambling site more, but it's time consuming if you are going to verify each bet it will take away the fun, just do random verification, so you will not miss the fun.

I am sure big whales when they play since it’s involves big money on losing that amount they might be getting it verified in order to ensure that their is nothing being rigged. For small players who just play for fun might not be the ones who may even bother at times to check since it’s just they play to have a good time and not just to make money from it .

[ethereumhunter]

I am a type of a gambler that i used to check the reputation of one casino by just reading the reviews of the casino, its performance and its considerably to the clients or gamblers, legal or registered and allowed to operate legally and no issues were already fine to me. And yes losing in gambling were already a part of it thats why we are here to keep reminder to each and everyone to rake risks only the amount that we are willing to lose just because we didn't know how to plat in provably fair game.

Same here, I trust the site that I'm gambling with so I don't have to check its fairness in every bet I make.
Reputation is very important to them, if they will scam people that will end their profitable business, so do you think they'll do that?

Actually there's plenty of reputable sites here, just gamble with them and you'll be alright, and those sites who have a verifier, they are good to gamble with.

I agree with that. That is why we need to have a trusty gambling site so we don't get any problems or have trouble with anything. We can prevent that thing from happening to us because the casino will not let their members be disappointed, which can affect their reputations. It is not easy to maintain reputations among the other site because the casino needs to let the members prove how the casino treat their members.

[carlisle1]

Normally i don't check for my seed if the game and website is properly sending my server hash and client hash. Because i usually pick the popular sites from the community, that has no negative feedback about their bettings.
But if there's a tool for an easier way to check every game hash generated by Provably fair system. It can be nice and much safer.

Yeah and why need to go far while your Signature tells it all ,One of the safest and reputable Site in this forum that 777coin so Playing there won't need to check about the fairness of each bets and results .

I have played in 777coin and Bitvest years back and until now betting once i have a chance .

If you are a whale or a high roller it's important that you check or verify your bets not really all of the bets but a random bets will do so you can trust the gambling site more, but it's time consuming if you are going to verify each bet it will take away the fun, just do random verification, so you will not miss the fun.

But if you are a whale and High rollers for sure you have Names of legit sites to play and wont need for this checking though this is more important for us to find which is legit and whom are not.

[South Park]

It is fine to be this careful at the beginning when you are trying a casino for the first time but it is not necessary to go to those extremes for the rest of your gambling journey, if you make 200 rolls of a dice in a session as long as you verify 5% to 10% of a random selection of rolls and it turns out to be that everything is in order then you can have a great degree of confidence that things are fine in the casino and that you can keep gambling there with no problem at all.

Carefully will need while you gamble and don't lose that before you end your time playing gambling. We do not need to verify almost all of our bets, but we could only verify some bets, so we don't lose our time to verify the bet. If you can play gambling on a reputable gambling site, you do not need to verify because they will not do something suspicious or even cheat you or other members.

I will have to disagree with you on that point, there are many examples of reputable sites that eventually became scams so it is important to always verify your bets, as I said in my previous post it is not necessary to verify every single bet, as long as you verify some of them, especially those that were bigger and the cases in which you lose several times in a row and everything is fine, then you can keep using that casino but at the first sign of an irregularity you should stop until things get clarified.

[KTChampions]

Normally i don't check for my seed if the game and website is properly sending my server hash and client hash. Because i usually pick the popular sites from the community, that has no negative feedback about their bettings.
But if there's a tool for an easier way to check every game hash generated by Provably fair system. It can be nice and much safer.

Yeah and why need to go far while your Signature tells it all ,One of the safest and reputable Site in this forum that 777coin so Playing there won't need to check about the fairness of each bets and results .

I have played in 777coin and Bitvest years back and until now betting once i have a chance .

I think many gamblers check bets not because they don't trust the casino in which they play, but out of simple interest. Tool check plus it is possible to check some statistical indicators. In addition, it is useful to make a check, since a casino can make a mistake not out of bad intentions, but by accident, for example, many casinos used RNG with various flaws before. If you constantly check the bets, then it is possible that some new errors that have not yet been corrected will be discovered.

[Oilacris]

Normally i don't check for my seed if the game and website is properly sending my server hash and client hash. Because i usually pick the popular sites from the community, that has no negative feedback about their bettings.
But if there's a tool for an easier way to check every game hash generated by Provably fair system. It can be nice and much safer.

Yeah and why need to go far while your Signature tells it all ,One of the safest and reputable Site in this forum that 777coin so Playing there won't need to check about the fairness of each bets and results .

I have played in 777coin and Bitvest years back and until now betting once i have a chance .

I think many gamblers check bets not because they don't trust the casino in which they play, but out of simple interest. Tool check plus it is possible to check some statistical indicators. In addition, it is useful to make a check, since a casino can make a mistake not out of bad intentions, but by accident, for example, many casinos used RNG with various flaws before. If you constantly check the bets, then it is possible that some new errors that have not yet been corrected will be discovered.

Every system wont be perfect which means there would be flaws but casinos or houses shouldnt let their players do able to find out that error that do really affects fairness because that will surely
create some bad impression once it would come out to public that theyve been playing on a site which do have some technical issues thats why its part of their job on maintaining fairness.

Its impossible for people to make some verifying bets just for their simple interest.Of course we would be mindful on first encounter or usage of the site
if its really fair but some do just depend on number of players and presuming that they are already fair since there
are lots whom do trust them.

[FontSeli]

I think many gamblers check bets not because they don't trust the casino in which they play, but out of simple interest. Tool check plus it is possible to check some statistical indicators. In addition, it is useful to make a check, since a casino can make a mistake not out of bad intentions, but by accident, for example, many casinos used RNG with various flaws before. If you constantly check the bets, then it is possible that some new errors that have not yet been corrected will be discovered.

People tend to doubt and subject everything to close scrutiny. They want to check how honestly their game was played first of all when they lose. Many people may think that if they find errors when checking, they will be able to get their money back.
If a person plays often and many times, then it is unlikely that he will check every game. Perhaps he will only do this at the beginning to make sure that the gambling site is honest.

[KTChampions]

Oilacris, FontSeli

I think there is another strong motive for conducting an in-depth study of the "correctness" of the bets and the mechanism of the casino in general. If you find any bugs/something important you can get paid by the casino by providing this information to them, or you can use it in the game to gain an advantage against the casino.

[FontSeli]

Oilacris, FontSeli

I think there is another strong motive for conducting an in-depth study of the "correctness" of the bets and the mechanism of the casino in general. If you find any bugs/something important you can get paid by the casino by providing this information to them, or you can use it in the game to gain an advantage against the casino.

You will probably be paid only if the bug is critical enough or if the casino is conducting a bug search campaign at this moment, otherwise you will just be told "thank you". If I found a bug, I would not use it for the purpose of my own enrichment. This is fraught with the ban of the account and the blocking of all funds, as well as possible criminal prosecution. I believe that it is better to inform the site owners about the found bug.

[Filicius]

This is some topic I have been wondering how could be verified in the last few weeks.

It is already difficult to beat the odds in a fair game, just imagine if the internal mechanisms of the bet are rigged

Thanks for sharing this information, I hope one day most of the online betting sites apply provably fair mechanisms in their services.

[FIFA worldcup]

This is some topic I have been wondering how could be verified in the last few weeks.

It is already difficult to beat the odds in a fair game, just imagine if the internal mechanisms of the bet are rigged

Thanks for sharing this information, I hope one day most of the online betting sites apply provably fair mechanisms in their services.

You can verify bets in all good betting sites and you should verify the gambling site is provably fair before depositing your funds. This is particularly necessary if you want to deposit in any new gambling site.

[KTChampions]

Oilacris, FontSeli

I think there is another strong motive for conducting an in-depth study of the "correctness" of the bets and the mechanism of the casino in general. If you find any bugs/something important you can get paid by the casino by providing this information to them, or you can use it in the game to gain an advantage against the casino.

You will probably be paid only if the bug is critical enough or if the casino is conducting a bug search campaign at this moment, otherwise you will just be told "thank you". If I found a bug, I would not use it for the purpose of my own enrichment. This is fraught with the ban of the account and the blocking of all funds, as well as possible criminal prosecution. I believe that it is better to inform the site owners about the found bug.

It depends on how you present this found error. If this is done non-publicly, then I think any casino itself will offer you a reward on the condition that you do not disclose this information. This is a sensitive thing to the casino's reputation and they are interested in hiding it.

[ethereumhunter]

It depends on how you present this found error. If this is done non-publicly, then I think any casino itself will offer you a reward on the condition that you do not disclose this information. This is a sensitive thing to the casino's reputation and they are interested in hiding it.

The casino will offer a reward for members who found an error, but if they are honest to all members, they will announce it on their site and attract all members to find an error. If they do that, I am sure that the casino's reputation will get better, and they can get more gamblers who will come and join. Sooner or later, the casino will have more members to play gambling on their site.

[coupable]

Oilacris, FontSeli

I think there is another strong motive for conducting an in-depth study of the "correctness" of the bets and the mechanism of the casino in general. If you find any bugs/something important you can get paid by the casino by providing this information to them, or you can use it in the game to gain an advantage against the casino.

You will probably be paid only if the bug is critical enough or if the casino is conducting a bug search campaign at this moment, otherwise you will just be told "thank you". If I found a bug, I would not use it for the purpose of my own enrichment. This is fraught with the ban of the account and the blocking of all funds, as well as possible criminal prosecution. I believe that it is better to inform the site owners about the found bug.

It depends on how you present this found error. If this is done non-publicly, then I think any casino itself will offer you a reward on the condition that you do not disclose this information. This is a sensitive thing to the casino's reputation and they are interested in hiding it.

This is not absolute correct. Most of bug finders publish about the bug in public to avoid that the website ignore the issue.Because when they connect them in private they will just fix the issue and ignore the one who discovered it claiming that they don't offer a bug bounty program. I am talking in general and not especially about the case here .
I had a white-hacker friend who was sometimes forced to hack a database tomporarly just to prove to owners that it's leacked .

[Saint-loup]

Normally i don't check for my seed if the game and website is properly sending my server hash and client hash. Because i usually pick the popular sites from the community, that has no negative feedback about their bettings.
But if there's a tool for an easier way to check every game hash generated by Provably fair system. It can be nice and much safer.

Yeah and why need to go far while your Signature tells it all ,One of the safest and reputable Site in this forum that 777coin so Playing there won't need to check about the fairness of each bets and results .

I have played in 777coin and Bitvest years back and until now betting once i have a chance .

I think many gamblers check bets not because they don't trust the casino in which they play, but out of simple interest. Tool check plus it is possible to check some statistical indicators. In addition, it is useful to make a check, since a casino can make a mistake not out of bad intentions, but by accident, for example, many casinos used RNG with various flaws before. If you constantly check the bets, then it is possible that some new errors that have not yet been corrected will be discovered.

If there are some flaws in the RNG, you won't need to check the seeds to see it, the bad entropy will reflect on the final results. 

[michellee]

It is fine to be this careful at the beginning when you are trying a casino for the first time but it is not necessary to go to those extremes for the rest of your gambling journey, if you make 200 rolls of a dice in a session as long as you verify 5% to 10% of a random selection of rolls and it turns out to be that everything is in order then you can have a great degree of confidence that things are fine in the casino and that you can keep gambling there with no problem at all.

Carefully will need while you gamble and don't lose that before you end your time playing gambling. We do not need to verify almost all of our bets, but we could only verify some bets, so we don't lose our time to verify the bet. If you can play gambling on a reputable gambling site, you do not need to verify because they will not do something suspicious or even cheat you or other members.

I will have to disagree with you on that point, there are many examples of reputable sites that eventually became scams so it is important to always verify your bets, as I said in my previous post it is not necessary to verify every single bet, as long as you verify some of them, especially those that were bigger and the cases in which you lose several times in a row and everything is fine, then you can keep using that casino but at the first sign of an irregularity you should stop until things get clarified.

Maybe what you are saying is right, but not many reputable sites became scams because the other reputable sites will not do that thing easily. They prefer to manage their reputations by avoiding cheat on their gamblers because they really concern about their members. If they cheat their members, that means it does not takes too long, they will lose their income and they will not have a chance to continue their business. To verify or not to verify will depend on each gambler, and if they think that they must verify the bets on every site the gambler played, they will do that.

[South Park]

This is some topic I have been wondering how could be verified in the last few weeks.

It is already difficult to beat the odds in a fair game, just imagine if the internal mechanisms of the bet are rigged

Thanks for sharing this information, I hope one day most of the online betting sites apply provably fair mechanisms in their services.

The good thing for you is that almost all of the reputable casinos that you can find in the market of cryptocurrencies offer you this option and you can clearly see that they are not cheating you, this is important because as we know casinos already have an edge and we are paying there knowing that most likely over the long term we are going to lose money anyway but a casino that cheats their customers simply has not room in this market and as soon as someone realizes that they make a scam accusation in the forum to let everyone know about it.

[Lanatsa]

This is some topic I have been wondering how could be verified in the last few weeks.

It is already difficult to beat the odds in a fair game, just imagine if the internal mechanisms of the bet are rigged

Thanks for sharing this information, I hope one day most of the online betting sites apply provably fair mechanisms in their services.

The good thing for you is that almost all of the reputable casinos that you can find in the market of cryptocurrencies offer you this option and you can clearly see that they are not cheating you, this is important because as we know casinos already have an edge and we are paying there knowing that most likely over the long term we are going to lose money anyway but a casino that cheats their customers simply has not room in this market and as soon as someone realizes that they make a scam accusation in the forum to let everyone know about it.

When an online casino tend to rig out then sooner or later it would really be busted up.Majority of sites now does have internal verifier where you can actually
see if the bets are fair or not plus there are other external which you can really make out some verifying too.

You would really see on which site is fair basing off on number of players or users who do standby on the site.You cant see it on sites which does have
issues when it comes to fairness.We gamblers do like to play on where a site doesn't really rig out their games.

We lose but we prefer to lose in a fair and equal way on where you haven't been cheated.

[n0ne]

Every gambling site has got its own edge. For different games the site has got different percentage as house edge. Reputable gambling sites won't make the edge get adjusted to the games for bigger earning. I won't be checking every bet, because I used to go on for a series of bets. Earlier it was little complicated to verify the provably fair functioning of the site. Now every site has made it much user friendly, so if there arises an issue I'll go verify for it rather than checking every bet.

[SmokerFace]

Thanks for sharing such an informative update. I didn't know about such control. In 2018 I did some put resources into the betting site and I got an uncommon outcome I begin losing wagers and I was a wonder that I couldn't dominate a solitary match. Today I came to realize what occurs around then. You set aside our time and cash. I will surely check the site next time and verify it. The gambling club is quite an unsafe method to twofold your cash everything is a misrepresentation

[michellee]

Thanks for sharing such an informative update. I didn't know about such control. In 2018 I did some put resources into the betting site and I got an uncommon outcome I begin losing wagers and I was a wonder that I couldn't dominate a solitary match. Today I came to realize what occurs around then. You set aside our time and cash. I will surely check the site next time and verify it. The gambling club is quite an unsafe method to twofold your cash everything is a misrepresentation

The gambling games are only to search enjoyment of playing many gambling games. If you already got that fun thing, maybe you need to stop the game and do not play more rounds because you will not enjoy the games, but it will become a curiosity, especially if you lose your money. That can make you chase your losses, and if you are playing gambling for a longer, it could make you addicted without you realize.

[Quidat]

Thanks for sharing such an informative update. I didn't know about such control. In 2018 I did some put resources into the betting site and I got an uncommon outcome I begin losing wagers and I was a wonder that I couldn't dominate a solitary match. Today I came to realize what occurs around then. You set aside our time and cash. I will surely check the site next time and verify it. The gambling club is quite an unsafe method to twofold your cash everything is a misrepresentation

Is the site or platform you've been using is a known or have much user on it or does have none? When you do deal with a site that
has a lot of player then you can presume that it is indeed fair.Majority of people would really be just keen on checking out everything
when they had already lost money but before that incident happen they do just bet all they want and dont notice that they had bee rigged out.
We all do have the spare time on verifying things up.

[Fredomago]

Every gambling site has got its own edge. For different games the site has got different percentage as house edge.

They've based it according to how the business works each sites do different survey to know what's more competitive to attract gamblers to play using thier platform.

Reputable gambling sites won't make the edge get adjusted to the games for bigger earning.

They'll prefer to have a much lesser one to bring more gamblers to the site, one way of calling the attention of the players is HE.

I won't be checking every bet, because I used to go on for a series of bets.

It's your own decision and your own ways to determine the trust with the platform that you are using,.

Earlier it was little complicated to verify the provably fair functioning of the site. Now every site has made it much user friendly, so if there arises an issue I'll go verify for it rather than checking every bet.

Gambling house adjust to this feature giving and assurance to all gamblers that they can track the fairness in  a much easier ways to make sure that the sites are willing to investigate if issues arises.

[peter0425]

Thanks for sharing such an informative update. I didn't know about such control. In 2018 I did some put resources into the betting site and I got an uncommon outcome I begin losing wagers and I was a wonder that I couldn't dominate a solitary match. Today I came to realize what occurs around then. You set aside our time and cash. I will surely check the site next time and verify it. The gambling club is quite an unsafe method to twofold your cash everything is a misrepresentation

Is the site or platform you've been using is a known or have much user on it or does have none? When you do deal with a site that
has a lot of player then you can presume that it is indeed fair.Majority of people would really be just keen on checking out everything
when they had already lost money but before that incident happen they do just bet all they want and dont notice that they had bee rigged out.
We all do have the spare time on verifying things up.

But verify the players also because there are sites that Looks like having many bettors but the truth ?those are just bot to lure gamblers and make them believe that the site is legit and many Players.

Best to play in gambling sites that has been advertised in this forum for long time now, and one of those is My Signature ,777coin .

[michellee]

The gambling games are only to search enjoyment of playing many gambling games. If you already got that fun thing, maybe you need to stop the game and do not play more rounds because you will not enjoy the games, but it will become a curiosity, especially if you lose your money. That can make you chase your losses, and if you are playing gambling for a longer, it could make you addicted without you realize.

If he is making fun to it, there's no problem with that I think, as long as it will be beneficial to him, the only thing that I think is, he maybe not verifying his game, but it will depends on him, there's no wrong about it, it will only make his addicted if he will be greedy and losing too much and still not checking every bet that he made or checking his transactions, so let him be, as long as he can manage his emotion.

Yes, we can hope that he can manage his emotion, so he does not have to lose much money. It will not be a problem not to verifying the game because as long as he is enjoying the game, and not thinking about winning or losing. He should prevent becoming greedy when he gets the win to enjoy his time in a gambling game. We should let him to what he wants, but we can suggest him to prevent more losses.

[Debonaire217]

The casino will offer a reward for members who found an error, but if they are honest to all members, they will announce it on their site and attract all members to find an error. If they do that, I am sure that the casino's reputation will get better, and they can get more gamblers who will come and join. Sooner or later, the casino will have more members to play gambling on their site.

That's not always the case, most of the time, even if the gamblers found out an error, the gambling casino refuses to provide the service or compensation to make the gambler feel better. These are the casinos that we should avoid, we should choose a casino that is provably fair and has good customer service that will really assist us in times of troubles.

[bitterguy28]

The casino will offer a reward for members who found an error, but if they are honest to all members, they will announce it on their site and attract all members to find an error. If they do that, I am sure that the casino's reputation will get better, and they can get more gamblers who will come and join. Sooner or later, the casino will have more members to play gambling on their site.

That's not always the case, most of the time, even if the gamblers found out an error, the gambling casino refuses to provide the service or compensation to make the gambler feel better. These are the casinos that we should avoid, we should choose a casino that is provably fair and has good customer service that will really assist us in times of troubles.

Only newbies are joining such casino's because experience gamblers even the Interface can be distinguished id legit or scam.

And also prevent new casinos specially if not advertised by prominent gamblers for safe keeping.

[virasisog]

The casino will offer a reward for members who found an error, but if they are honest to all members, they will announce it on their site and attract all members to find an error. If they do that, I am sure that the casino's reputation will get better, and they can get more gamblers who will come and join. Sooner or later, the casino will have more members to play gambling on their site.

That's not always the case, most of the time, even if the gamblers found out an error, the gambling casino refuses to provide the service or compensation to make the gambler feel better. These are the casinos that we should avoid, we should choose a casino that is provably fair and has good customer service that will assist us in times of troubles.

That is true, even if no players are reporting error, some trusted gambling sites consistently develop their platform, finding bugs and looking which should be improved or if something has to be added to improve their platform and services. There are a lot of trusted gambling sites that are dedicated to developing and improving the platform since they know gamblers' demand and expectations increases as some platforms are improving as well.

[btc78]

The gambling games are only to search enjoyment of playing many gambling games. If you already got that fun thing, maybe you need to stop the game and do not play more rounds because you will not enjoy the games, but it will become a curiosity, especially if you lose your money. That can make you chase your losses, and if you are playing gambling for a longer, it could make you addicted without you realize.

If he is making fun to it, there's no problem with that I think, as long as it will be beneficial to him, the only thing that I think is, he maybe not verifying his game, but it will depends on him, there's no wrong about it, it will only make his addicted if he will be greedy and losing too much and still not checking every bet that he made or checking his transactions, so let him be, as long as he can manage his emotion.

Yes, we can hope that he can manage his emotion, so he does not have to lose much money. It will not be a problem not to verifying the game because as long as he is enjoying the game, and not thinking about winning or losing. He should prevent becoming greedy when he gets the win to enjoy his time in a gambling game. We should let him to what he wants, but we can suggest him to prevent more losses.

Emotion is the tool that will make us a loser in gambling ,because most of the time we lose concentration because of our Feeling ,
That's why it is not advisable to gamble once you are in bad Feeling ,better not to bet and just try next time than to fall for bad effect of emotions.

Every gambling site has got its own edge. For different games the site has got different percentage as house edge. Reputable gambling sites won't make the edge get adjusted to the games for bigger earning. I won't be checking every bet, because I used to go on for a series of bets. Earlier it was little complicated to verify the provably fair functioning of the site. Now every site has made it much user friendly, so if there arises an issue I'll go verify for it rather than checking every bet.

Good move of verifying the site and legitimacy than each bets we do.

Legit sites wont Hurt their reputation that's for sure

[kotajikikox]

This is some topic I have been wondering how could be verified in the last few weeks.

It's depend in which gambling site you are playing But mostly verifying so better choose a legit site.

It is already difficult to beat the odds in a fair game, just imagine if the internal mechanisms of the bet are rigged

Rigged only Happens if your Site is BS ,because mostly Good Site has their Maintenance happen time to time to Prevent this so called rigging ,

Thanks for sharing this information, I hope one day most of the online betting sites apply provably fair mechanisms in their services.

Most are probably fair but of course nothing is certain because gambling site won't let us Win over them constantly ,i have been gambling for a while in Legit site and yeah Greediness makes me lose mostly.

[Mauser]

That is true, even if no players are reporting error, some trusted gambling sites consistently develop their platform, finding bugs and looking which should be improved or if something has to be added to improve their platform and services. There are a lot of trusted gambling sites that are dedicated to developing and improving the platform since they know gamblers' demand and expectations increases as some platforms are improving as well.

I think every good online casino should make sure there software is constantly being developed. I see it with a few poker sites I am playing at. There is at least every two week a new update coming out. In todays world we kind of expect some changes constantly, even if it is just a minor tweak for the layout. Props to all the developers working so hard.

[MCobian]

That is true, even if no players are reporting error, some trusted gambling sites consistently develop their platform, finding bugs and looking which should be improved or if something has to be added to improve their platform and services. There are a lot of trusted gambling sites that are dedicated to developing and improving the platform since they know gamblers' demand and expectations increases as some platforms are improving as well.

I think every good online casino should make sure there software is constantly being developed. I see it with a few poker sites I am playing at. There is at least every two week a new update coming out. In todays world we kind of expect some changes constantly, even if it is just a minor tweak for the layout. Props to all the developers working so hard.

What you are saying is true, without new software updates by online casinos it will hurt casino owners and gamblers. It could be that
the algorithm or pattern of the software used by the online casino is being learned to be hacked by hackers. Or it could be that the software
has a bug that makes the gambling game run unfairly and is detrimental to gamblers.

So it is mandatory to periodically gambling sites carry out maintenance and updates, then for gamblers should frequently verify the bets that
have been made. So if there is a problem that must be fixed, it can be reported and corrected immediately by the gambling site owner.

[South Park]

We lose but we prefer to lose in a fair and equal way on where you haven't been cheated.

Exactly, I know very well that my chances of profiting from a casino long term are minimal and that even if I did so it will just mean that I was extremely lucky to be able to do it, however I want it to be fair, if besides the house edge the casino gives themselves the ability to change the results after the fact then that is unethical and any casino doing that should be exposed immediately so the community knows it is a waste of time and money to play there.

[shoreno]

That is true, even if no players are reporting error, some trusted gambling sites consistently develop their platform, finding bugs and looking which should be improved or if something has to be added to improve their platform and services. There are a lot of trusted gambling sites that are dedicated to developing and improving the platform since they know gamblers' demand and expectations increases as some platforms are improving as well.

I think every good online casino should make sure there software is constantly being developed. I see it with a few poker sites I am playing at. There is at least every two week a new update coming out. In todays world we kind of expect some changes constantly, even if it is just a minor tweak for the layout. Props to all the developers working so hard.

What you are saying is true, without new software updates by online casinos it will hurt casino owners and gamblers. It could be that
the algorithm or pattern of the software used by the online casino is being learned to be hacked by hackers. Or it could be that the software
has a bug that makes the gambling game run unfairly and is detrimental to gamblers.

So it is mandatory to periodically gambling sites carry out maintenance and updates, then for gamblers should frequently verify the bets that
have been made. So if there is a problem that must be fixed, it can be reported and corrected immediately by the gambling site owner.

we need to help the gambling owners by reporting the problem if we see a strange activity in the system because bugs and glitches can be used by hackers to exploit the site and if the site becames bankrupt we small and non hacker players are also going to suffer .

most of the time site owners cant detect the issues because they are busy or they are only the one that manage the gambling site .

[michellee]

Emotion is the tool that will make us a loser in gambling ,because most of the time we lose concentration because of our Feeling ,
That's why it is not advisable to gamble once you are in bad Feeling ,better not to bet and just try next time than to fall for bad effect of emotions.

The emotion will become bigger every time we continue the next rounds, especially if we already losing money. It could attract us to feel sad and we want to try to recover our losses. If you are in a bad feeling, maybe you can take a rest and not doing anything, including playing gambling because that can make you feel worse. That can lead you to spend so much money but you will lose that money.

[Quidat]

Emotion is the tool that will make us a loser in gambling ,because most of the time we lose concentration because of our Feeling ,
That's why it is not advisable to gamble once you are in bad Feeling ,better not to bet and just try next time than to fall for bad effect of emotions.

The emotion will become bigger every time we continue the next rounds, especially if we already losing money. It could attract us to feel sad and we want to try to recover our losses. If you are in a bad feeling, maybe you can take a rest and not doing anything, including playing gambling because that can make you feel worse. That can lead you to spend so much money but you will lose that money.

Take control of your emotions from time to time and so as with your bankroll!
On topic on the question if verifying out bets as a gambler then its a just a normal or must thing to be done to secure out that you are playing with a fair site but people would just
normally automatically presume out that it is already fair when they do saw that there are lots of people do playing which its understandable or logical that this place is good.
There are lots of 3rd party verifier if you do really have doubts towards your bet which you can check out everytime.

[Debonaire217]

I'm on it, gambling sites that has an official thread here and an a campaign here easily generate support and reputation, some of the gambling sites sites here with long history of marketing and advertisement here are respected gambling sites, they will not allowed to advertise here or do a bounty campaign if they are bad actors of the industry, 1XBIT try to run a campaign but failed to get support.

It depends, there are some gambling sites that hire a campaign manager that doesn't really inspect or somehow check the reputation of the gambling site. This could mean that we are still prone to gambling sites that aren't good.

But if we really want, we can still base it on the reputation of the manager as they keep their reputation high, they are expected to study the site first. Which could really help us in our decision.

[panganib999]

I'm on it, gambling sites that has an official thread here and an a campaign here easily generate support and reputation, some of the gambling sites sites here with long history of marketing and advertisement here are respected gambling sites, they will not allowed to advertise here or do a bounty campaign if they are bad actors of the industry, 1XBIT try to run a campaign but failed to get support.

It depends, there are some gambling sites that hire a campaign manager that doesn't really inspect or somehow check the reputation of the gambling site. This could mean that we are still prone to gambling sites that aren't good.

But if we really want, we can still base it on the reputation of the manager as they keep their reputation high, they are expected to study the site first. Which could really help us in our decision.

In being a gambler you need to consider to know the reputation of the casino or the platform you're playing into it. And as well as the reputation of the manager or the one who leads. In gambling, the risk is always higher because it's money that speaks and important. Most of the people look on the profit and earnings than in the experiences. And sometimes people tend to forget to look to this some important things like this. And tend to be the reason why most of the gamblers get lost a lot of earnings. For me, as a gambler you need to verify bet, not just bet but the reputation. It is good to be safe and highly check every situation rather than loosing a lot of money. Gambling is one of the best way to earn and ofcourse to lose.

[FaucetKING]

Such a brilliant thread to share with us, thanks alot!
I've came across the provably fair concept when i was trying dice and roulette for the esports gambling websites, these were cool and shilled by alot of Youtubers back in 2017 and never tried to verify the md5 decrypting nor tried to know the whole concept. As you've said in the thread, if you're not checking each bet then you're just getting cheated. Some bookmakers might be cheating, never heard about any case as far as i know but i'm grateful, with this tool we can just lower their chances. Well done!