Bitcoin arbitrage, quite profitable BTC investment, make up to 1% ROI per day

[conspirosphere.tk]

But as anyone here I don't know what they're really doing,

If you dont know exactly what they are really doing, and they are promising/paying unreal profits,  constantly trying to attract more and more funds with referral programs etc, it should be glaringly obvious what it is they are doing.

I cant believe someone who's been around since 2011 still falls for this. Tell me, how many other ponzi's did you get suckered in?

at this right moment -like ever- the delta between bitfinex and btc-e is 5$ = almost 1%. Can you believe it?

[Grinder]

at this right moment -like ever- the delta between bitfinex and btc-e is 5$ = almost 1%. Can you believe it?

And what would the actual average daily profits be after you've paid the fees and waited for the days it takes to wire the fiat from Bitfinex to you and then back to BTC-e?

[dyask]

at this right moment -like ever- the delta between bitfinex and btc-e is 5$ = almost 1%. Can you believe it?

And what would the actual average daily profits be after you've paid the fees and waited for the days it takes to wire the fiat from Bitfinex to you and then back to BTC-e?

I don't have any investment in bitcoin-trader.biz.  Still I'm amazed at how little creativity detractors show.   For example, it is easy to have revolving lines of credit for fiat.   There are also multiple ways of moving fait and you can even move by using other cryto currencies.   There are fees and spreads that cut into the profit, but that isn't as much an issue if you can trade a multiple of your funds in a day.   It is also possible for prices between exchanges to narrow or reverse in a day.   

[Puppet]

What amazes me more is how little creativity these fraudsters have to show to keep suckering in people. Its the exact same thing each and every time and Ive heard all those arguments a gazillion times and each and every one of them ended up the same way.  

If you really believe you can achieve > 1000% YoY why on earth would you send your money to yet another anonymous website instead of doing it yourself? And if you dont have the skills, why not contract someone to do it for you. Now for argument's sake, lets say you do that, and it does actually work, what would you do? Invest your own money or let others rake in the profit?

Oh well, I couldnt convince anyone pirate, bitdaytrade and all the others where ponzi's, so Im sure I wont convince anyone this time. See you in 6 or 12 months in the scam accusation section.

[Grinder]

I don't have any investment in bitcoin-trader.biz.  Still I'm amazed at how little creativity detractors show. For example, it is easy to have revolving lines of credit for fiat.   There are also multiple ways of moving fait and you can even move by using other cryto currencies.   There are fees and spreads that cut into the profit, but that isn't as much an issue if you can trade a multiple of your funds in a day.   It is also possible for prices between exchanges to narrow or reverse in a day.

And I'm amazed at how bad the wishful thinkers in this thread are at seeing the flaws in their arguments. Credit isn't free, and you wouldn't get much for something as speculative as this. If you want others to move the fiat for you, you would have to pay fees and they are very unlikely to give you the price for the crypto currency that is required for the arbitrage to work. You are completely ignoring all the real world problems with your "creative" ideas.

[Rannasha]

But as anyone here I don't know what they're really doing,

If you dont know exactly what they are really doing, and they are promising/paying unreal profits,  constantly trying to attract more and more funds with referral programs etc, it should be glaringly obvious what it is they are doing.

I cant believe someone who's been around since 2011 still falls for this. Tell me, how many other ponzi's did you get suckered in?

at this right moment -like ever- the delta between bitfinex and btc-e is 5$ = almost 1%. Can you believe it?

1% price difference. Subtract trade fees. Then divide by 2 (because you need BTC on the high-price exchange and the same value in USD on the other). That's the theoretical profit if you can utilize all your funds. In reality, you'll have most of your fiat stuck moving through the slow international banking system from one exchange via your bank account to the other exchange.

If you can translate a consistent 1% price difference between exchanges into a daily 0.2% profit then you're doing an amazing job.

[conspirosphere.tk]

1% price difference. Subtract trade fees. Then divide by 2 (because you need BTC on the high-price exchange and the same value in USD on the other). That's the theoretical profit if you can utilize all your funds. In reality, you'll have most of your fiat stuck moving through the slow international banking system from one exchange via your bank account to the other exchange.

If you can translate a consistent 1% price difference between exchanges into a daily 0.2% profit then you're doing an amazing job.

Apart that I used to see greater differences than 1% most of the time between btc-e and bitfinex, there is no need to divide by 2, since btc-e is all the time the lowest price, so the operation would consists just in sending fiat to btc-e to buy btc there while selling btc on finex at an higher price. [edit]: and of course there is no need to use the banking system for each single trade, just to refill the fiat deposit on btc-e when needed, which may be once per week or so.
To me it seems feasible. And probably a pro with high volumes could even obtain lower fees.

But I am not pimping. I already said to play just with anything one is willing to lose if at all.

[yonce]

Just a warning to people, this thread is obviously run by a paid person by bitcoin-trader or someone on their staff/admin. crazyivan is either a shill or actually an employee/manager of bitcoin-trader.

[crazyivan]

Just a warning to people, this thread is obviously run by a paid person by bitcoin-trader or someone on their staff/admin. crazyivan is either a shill or actually an employee/manager of bitcoin-trader.

Hahaha, no, no, you ve forgotten to mention that I am actually Satoshi Nakomoto. Now everybody knows the truth.

I have to repay in kind, just a few details about Yonce aka Dominicwin, just take a look, it is really funny.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=626622.0

and

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=367983.0

Do you need more?

https://oilrigcontractors.com/index.php?a=news

Such a funny guy.

[bellgarath1]

Looks interesting............

You get a the referral.

Jerry

[Rannasha]

1% price difference. Subtract trade fees. Then divide by 2 (because you need BTC on the high-price exchange and the same value in USD on the other). That's the theoretical profit if you can utilize all your funds. In reality, you'll have most of your fiat stuck moving through the slow international banking system from one exchange via your bank account to the other exchange.

If you can translate a consistent 1% price difference between exchanges into a daily 0.2% profit then you're doing an amazing job.

Apart that I used to see greater differences than 1% most of the time between btc-e and bitfinex, there is no need to divide by 2, since btc-e is all the time the lowest price, so the operation would consists just in sending fiat to btc-e to buy btc there while selling btc on finex at an higher price.

Of course you need to divide by 2. If BTC is at $500 at the cheap exchange and you want to arb-trade 1 BTC, you need 1 BTC on the expensive exchange and $500 on the cheap exchange to perform the buy and sell orders simultaneously. That's $1000 worth of funds you use, split between USD and BTC. If the price-difference is 1%, that's $5 profit. That gives you a profit of 0.5% of the total funds involved in this trade ($5 on $1000). Of course you need to deduct $2 in total trade fees for these 2 trades dropping the profit down to 0.3% of the total funds involved in this trade.

[edit]: and of course there is no need to use the banking system for each single trade, just to refill the fiat deposit on btc-e when needed, which may be once per week or so.
To me it seems feasible. And probably a pro with high volumes could even obtain lower fees.

If you refill "when needed" or "once per week" that means you have a ton of money sitting around doing nothing for most of the time. As you mentioned, arbitrage opportunities are almost always in the same direction. So if you buy on BTC-e and sell on Bitfinex, any fiat you have on Bitfinex is idle and doing nothing. The same goes for any funds that are in transit in the bank system. But this is still investor money and counts towards the total amount invested. That means that all these idle funds drag the profit further down.

There are further issues with the claims made by Bitcoin-Trader, but the above alone should be more than enough to convince people that the profits claimed by Bitcoin-Trader, more than 1% almost every day, are unrealistically high.

So wake up and smell the roses: There is no trading going on. Your deposits pay the profits for earlier investors and new depositors pay your profits. Just like any other Ponzi / HYIP scheme. And as long as people keep depositing, the site will keep paying and everything appears fine. But like every other Ponzi scheme, eventually the new deposits will dry up and the whole thing comes crashing down.

[crazyivan]

Less then 5 weeks until I reach full ROI. I only wish I had more guts to invest more money when I joined BT.

[crazyivan]

June 16, 2014 trading result: +0.74

More people reached ROI, some decided to reinvest, some to withdraw. No problem either way.

[rebuilder]

[conspirosphere.tk]

So wake up and smell the roses: There is no trading going on. Your deposits pay the profits for earlier investors and new depositors pay your profits. Just like any other Ponzi / HYIP scheme.

OK, if we assume that is a ponzi it's a miracle that is still standing, since many investors entered near the btc top price or close (nov 2013 - apr 2014), and they got their investment automatically converted in USD at the price of the time that they invested and got paid interests on that capital since then. And from some time many are getting the option to withdraw their capital beyond the interests already paid.

So unless the user base grown exponentially in the meanwhile a ponzi like this should be a short-lived fail, which is not even very anonymous given that they are operating through several pay processors and are effecting bank wires (which in itself is not a guarantee on the return of the investment, of course, but is already some steps ahead of pirate-likes).

[Puppet]

It would be a miracle if they had folded already. A quick glance at their site indicates the "trading pool" contract runs 120 days, the "mining pool" contract 365 days (ask yourself: why?). They only seem to have started their newbie "Full disclosure: I am not related to this site in any way, shape or form. " sockpuppet referral spam campaign here earlier this year.

[yonce]

So wake up and smell the roses: There is no trading going on. Your deposits pay the profits for earlier investors and new depositors pay your profits. Just like any other Ponzi / HYIP scheme.

OK, if we assume that is a ponzi it's a miracle that is still standing, since many investors entered near the btc top price or close (nov 2013 - apr 2014), and they got their investment automatically converted in USD at the price of the time that they invested and got paid interests on that capital since then. And from some time many are getting the option to withdraw their capital beyond the interests already paid.

So unless the user base grown exponentially in the meanwhile a ponzi like this should be a short-lived fail, which is not even very anonymous given that they are operating through several pay processors and are effecting bank wires (which in itself is not a guarantee on the return of the investment, of course, but is already some steps ahead of pirate-likes).

It's not a miracle the ponzi is still standing. They pay less interest to begin with than one of the ponzi's I am in that is older than bitcoin-trader.

[crazyivan]

I really wonder what your argument is going to be in 13 days when BT reaches 8 months online. This means 2 FULL investment cycles, everyone who invested in the first 4 months will be reaching ROI and counting. It is some strange Ponzi scheme which lets people reach full return on their investments, I thought this type of schemes usually get closed down in 3 months and run away with your money, yet they are still here and still paying.

[yonce]

I really wonder what your argument is going to be in 13 days when BT reaches 8 months online. This means 2 FULL investment cycles, everyone who invested in the first 4 months will be reaching ROI and counting. It is some strange Ponzi scheme which lets people reach full return on their investments, I thought this type of schemes usually get closed down in 3 months and run away with your money, yet they are still here and still paying.

I will congratulate you for making it to 8 months online. It isn't a strange ponzi scheme for people to make returns. HYIP's wouldn't exist today if people didn't make money off them. If you do any research into HYIP's you will notice people making profit all over the industry all the time. 3 months is a very random number. There's many things that go into what makes the longevity of a program. If they paid 8-10% daily 3 months is a very successful ponzi. The daily interest rate has a lot to do with the length of a program as well. Obviously you aren't going to find a big HYIP ponzi game paying 8% daily for 300 days.

[Grinder]

I really wonder what your argument is going to be in 13 days when BT reaches 8 months online. This means 2 FULL investment cycles, everyone who invested in the first 4 months will be reaching ROI and counting. It is some strange Ponzi scheme which lets people reach full return on their investments, I thought this type of schemes usually get closed down in 3 months and run away with your money, yet they are still here and still paying.

I really doubt you're as clueless as you appear. A ponzi which pays as little as BT can frequently last more than a year. The whole point of paying is to appear legit and attract more victims. As long as the lucky ones who got in first are successful in their eager work to attract enough new victims it is profitable to continue paying.