[UNO] Unobtanium Info & Discussion - Merge Mine w/BTC! - Update NOW to qt 0.11.5

[BitcoinNational]

the one with Auxpow will get a large blockchain, correct?

Is there an estimate how big the bloat would potentially be?

This is the big question.  Requires the PROs to speak.  

If UNO can be the leader in sha256 Auxpow (same Via 2 Scrypty)
then that'd  be pretty damn awesome.

Still keen on having a side chain eat any of the bloat if this is possible.
again why BIG would be fun (cuz we give it all the bloat)

[gustav]

This is the big question.  Requires the PROs to speak.  

If UNO can be the leader in sha256 Auxpow (same Via 2 Scrypty)
then that'd  be pretty damn awesome.

Still keen on having a side chain eat any of the bloat if this is possible.
again why BIG would be fun (cuz we give it all the bloat)

BIG would also be the right ticker for a bloated chain  

Yes, need some crypto-magicians on this - uno can be a leading altcoin, no doubt.

[WillowRosenberg]

The block times doesn't matter for merge mining.

A coin with a 10 minute block time can merge mine with a coin with a 1 minute block time.

so zet can merge and doesn't need change? This would be great news for both coins, wouldn't it?

Yes, the parameters doesn't need to change, but one of the coins must implement AuxPow.

If a coin has AuxPow it can merge mine with other coins that doesn't have AuxPow.

the one with Auxpow will get a large blockchain, correct?

Is there an estimate how big the bloat would potentially be?

Both coins get some extra data in their block chain. For the non-AuxPow coin it is a hash and for the AuxPow coin it is a block header and a hash. These aren't big chunks of data, probably not more data than an average transaction.

[gustav]

sounds good.

[FallingKnife]

A coin that merge mines with Uno will benefit from our higher hash, but they also get to tap us. Because merge mining also makes mining Uno more profitable and attracts more hash, you can believe that I would get behind it and work to educate our pools & miners to implement it.

At this point I would welcome any coin to implement AuxPow with Uno in order to provide a template for other coins, miners & pools to follow.  Later, we'll need to be more selective about the coins we are able to engage with as a community.

The healthier the merged coin is, and the stronger the market for their coin, the better and more worthwhile it would be for our community to lend it's support in promotion and maybe even a bit of market support.  But the first mover in this area (no matter how healthy) will get a lot of attention from us because they're blazing the trail. We would like other coins to follow their lead, and to that end I would be very engaged in bringing the advantages of our community to the opportunity.

Over the months I have floated the idea to different coin devs and received a variety of response, but no takers.  AUM dev was in touch about it at one time. I had earlier reached out to devs of other 3-minute sha coins, ORO expessed some interest. I had reached out to XJO, and several others.  There has been interest, and I think everyone understands the benefits of doing it, but no takers yet.

I'll offer a small incentive, because I would like to see this hapen.
I will give a bounty to the first coin and pool who would implement AuxPow with Uno;  50 Uno to tip the first coin dev, and 50 Uno for the first pool who implement merged mining with Uno, provided they leave a template for other devs/pools to follow.  Maybe some of you will sweeten the pot even more.

[BitcoinNational]

YES
willing to sweeten the pot even more
(will say an exact amount in kilos later as this moves forward)

1. I think we can raise enough to create an full AuxPow with Uno program, complete with additional 'specialist' dev, if needed.

2. We can start off small (TEA or 21 or #WAS or PLT) something easy no pressure.  Show UNO is able to do this, not just talk.  

3. I think this next 3-6 months crypto will see the 'merger' alliance phase in hyper drive.  Hash power will be a must for coins going to the next stage of alt crypto.  (There are indicators that this phase is already started see XC, see VIA, and UNO needs to lead not follow).  So later the bigger fish will be more willing, but it does no harm to flirt with Zeta/A/dem/maza, and Aum make sense, xJo has an open invitation anytime. Any listed but struggling hash wise SHA is on the table. IMO

*MYR, Digi, Digital, Saff, Neos << this is the future we can be their SHA pool

[gustav]

sure, i can top up 10 coins for the dev.

Right now hashrate is bad on almost all coins. In case bitcoin declines more it'll become a thing of survival for many coins. We'll see much more merging then. It's certainly good to be ahead of the curve.

[BitcoinCharlie]

I don't really know anything about mining. I'm open to whatever the experts suggest. However, we have all put in a ton of time building the $UNO brand. I would merely suggested that we take extra caution in selecting any add-ons. Bad mergers produce disastrous results. DaimlerChrysler comes to mind also Sears Kmart?

[BitcoinNational]

I don't really know anything about mining. I'm open to whatever the experts suggest. However, we have all put in a ton of time building the $UNO brand. I would merely suggested that we take extra caution in selecting any add-ons. Bad mergers produce disastrous results. DaimlerChrysler comes to mind also Sears Kmart?

Not a merger.  Coins are still completely separate and independent.  It's more like each agreeing to contributing towards building a better highway to get more customers to Sears/Kmart or Walmart (both having shops in the same area), or for DaimlerChrysler working with Toyota to improve some assembly line tech both use.

BTC, ix, io, name, dev, CP, Prism, and Mastercoin are never thought of as 'mergers' IMO.  No one complains that Doge has destroyed the Litecoin brand.  

Merger is in the sense of 'Utility Resources' ... roads, water, sewage, electric.  In our case Hash power.

=================
Here's a bee in my bonnet.

NooCoin

Why don't we all agree to back UNO with vitamin pills, "send us 1 UNO for 3 aspirin".  Then instead of WIPing you cash or bullion you can have some Flintstone chewables.  Hell it took Nooooooooo Coin from $0 to $400k.  

Quick what's $380,722x400,000?
   
Our new market capital that's what!

And Noo is just accepting Noo as payment against floating exchange rate prices to the GBP.  UNO = 5 sugar pills, no matter the exchange rate.  Oh bittrex will be so happy with the trade volume this will generate!  Millions of Billions.

But we need to start a new thread
We-r-U-no-HackTeam
Newbie << rank

What's that old joke about smart pills?

[prominerone]

 

[Benefactor]

@ BIG new launch:  Has anyone ever started a new coin on exchanges and not had a moonshot?  I would be so cool to just have everyone underbid it, (maybe we can agree on the practice?) and then slowly build the value over time.  Another well-managed coin?  No way?!  Impossible!  

Let's find a nice, small market cap and just trade it there for a while, like maybe ??60K.  Even at launch, maybe we can all keep it there for a while?  This way, we birth another great crypto, we get our first merge-mine, and we have long-term success without eroding UNO in the process.

This would look like this:  We mine the new BIG, and get a reliable, fair exchange like Allcrypt to put it up, and no other exchanges for our agreed-upon incubation period.  Lots of us sell a super-wallet's worth of BIG 1% over our initial target market cap's calculated price, and put up an easy support 1% below that cap with huge (relative) buy orders.  We all agree not to sell higher or lower than the 2% spread, and then we slowly raise the target market cap @ week.  If we launch our first merge-mined coin this month, we all should have plenty of liquid stored wealth in UNO, as the bear market ends.  Maybe raise the target market cap 1% each week?

Have we gotten any feedback from Bryce or Blazr#1 on all this BIG stuff?  (I still have a few new pages of thread to read.   )

[Benefactor]

Gonna flat-out vote against Big (Great name but) Massive chunk of the currency is in 3 wallets.

And: Crypto Prices in 2015? Suppose we add a 30-word synopsis, and copy and paste?

Ian and Mark: just can't figure it out -- but it will go hard one way or the other.

The goal is to make merge-mining happen.  Are we just taking the BIG name and launching our own new coin, or are we still relating to the original BIG network in any way?

[Benefactor]

merge with joulecoin?

+1 Absolutely!  Why not be efficient and start JouleCoin and other merged-mining coins at the same time?  Bam!

[ETA:  I just have to say, though, that our block time is sacrosanct, and should never be changed.]

[Benefactor]

zet isn't doing so well with the network. Look at transaction times. Is zet really faster than Un? Not much! With the weak network they have you'd need to take 10 confirms - so do they really benefit from sticking to it and NOT merging? I think they would benefit more from merging. UNO is blazing fast with the 3 minutes and very secure. 30 seconds ZET with weak network isn't secure at all. I think they might want to consider right now. Together we stand, devided we fall

I am all for zeta, and fully agree with these points (I've observed and thought exactly the same)
the BUT ... We have to convince them, and my guess is they are a tough crowd to convince, even in the face of bright and obvious truths.  

nooo. Don't convince. Just throw the idea at them and see what happens

maybe they want, maybe they don't - worth a try.

We are coming from a position of strength.  UNO is near a recent low, and still we are looking strong.

[BitcoinCharlie]

zet isn't doing so well with the network. Look at transaction times. Is zet really faster than Un? Not much! With the weak network they have you'd need to take 10 confirms - so do they really benefit from sticking to it and NOT merging? I think they would benefit more from merging. UNO is blazing fast with the 3 minutes and very secure. 30 seconds ZET with weak network isn't secure at all. I think they might want to consider right now. Together we stand, devided we fall

I am all for zeta, and fully agree with these points (I've observed and thought exactly the same)
the BUT ... We have to convince them, and my guess is they are a tough crowd to convince, even in the face of bright and obvious truths.  

nooo. Don't convince. Just throw the idea at them and see what happens

maybe they want, maybe they don't - worth a try.

We are coming from a position of strength.  UNO is near a recent low, and still we are looking strong.

I completely agree with Benefactor, there was a comment in the ZET thread that $UNO would be the one to have to hardfork. I don't agree with the ZET poster. Coming from a position of strength, I believe that we should keep $UNO pure and no forks.

[Benefactor]

The block times doesn't matter for merge mining.

A coin with a 10 minute block time can merge mine with a coin with a 1 minute block time.

so zet can merge and doesn't need change? This would be great news for both coins, wouldn't it?

Yes, the parameters doesn't need to change, but one of the coins must implement AuxPow.

If a coin has AuxPow it can merge mine with other coins that doesn't have AuxPow.

the one with Auxpow will get a large blockchain, correct?

Is there an estimate how big the bloat would potentially be?

Is AuxPow safe?

-

Also, I just learned something.  Finally got the syntax code for it:  To get to the last post in a thread, add "new#new" after the thread number and a decimal point, like this:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=527500.new#new

Sheesh!  Someone should share new random pointers once in a while.  It is impossible for me to keep up with technology!!!   

[FallingKnife]

Just to be very clear (because the term "merge" can be misleading)...
The coins are not merged into some super coin (i/e it's not a blockchain take over). The blockchains remain completely separate.
If ZET implemented AuxPOW against Uno,  and a pool set it up,  what would happen is that miners at that pool could earn ZET or UNO, as their hashes have the opportuniy to solve blocks for either coin, or both simultaneously, depending on whether the difficulty of the hash meets or exceeds that coins' difficulty.

If other coins also implemented AuxPow against Uno, then the miners could earn UNO, ZET, abc, def, and ghi coin( for their mining, as their hashes might solve blocks for other coins. It makes mining more profitable. The question becomes which coin will be the "parent" and which will be the "child."  It does require a fork for the coin(s) implementing AuxPow, so clearly it's more convenient and less work to be the parent.

The thing that usually will kill the idea is the bad connotation a community peceives in being labled the "child" coin. As we saw with Doge when they merge mined with LTC, it will be seen by some as a kind of defeat, even when history shows that it is usually a prudent long term move.

Re BIG:  I applaud the thinking. And Yes they have a very cool ticker. But I think it would prove to be a mistake for us to take on their problems Their block chain is stuck at high difficulty right now because they don't have anything like KGW (they only change difficulty every 30 blocks); there's a bad taste in everyone's mouth because of the way the dev abandoned them; they are not backed any more by bullion (if they ever really were); they're not on any exchanges that I am aware of; they have a huge premine relative to coins issued; is there any community left? I know their miners have all gone; it would take a lot of work by our devs to fix it (I know our guys won't do it, and I'd hate to even ask them).

Maybe instead of trying to build a mining ecosystem around Uno, we just implement AuxPow with BTC and be done with it. Uno's blockchain would remain separate, the specs wouldn't change; pools mining Btc can choose to mine Uno; existing pools don't have to setup merge mining (they could if they wanted); Individual miners could still mine Uno directly. This should probably be part of the discussion as well. The downside (as discussed above) is that everyone (pools, exchanges, you) would have to install a new client.  And there's maybe some risk that Uno wouldn't get the "mind share" among larger pools that a large cap coin like NMC would get.

Here's how the hashrate for DVC (Devcoin, not Distributed Vault Coin) looks vs BTC (DVC is merged mine against Bitcoin).
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-btc-dvc.html  Even if Uno got 1/100th of the hash of DVC, it would be orders of magnitude above Uno's current hash rate.

Here you can see the effect of DOGE's hash rate when they chose to merge mine against LTC last September.  
https://bitinfocharts.com/comparison/hashrate-ltc-doge.html

Whichever way we go (or even if we do nothing), a decent market cap for Uno remains an important part of the plan.

[IMZ]

High-quality discussion!

I pledge 30 Uno to the pot.

Big Picture Idea:

There is no doubt in my mind that Uno is the place coin to be; but we can welcome dynamic characters from other currencies to ‘fly in formation’ with us.

Un-Ex/The Mall is the vehicle for this: people bringing energy and capital on to our turf.

@ Benefactor: thanks for the new-new thing. Great!

"Are we just taking the BIG name and launching our own new coin, or are we still relating to the original BIG network in any way?" I thought there is a sort of community overlap involved.

m

[gustav]

can we implement Auxpow in a way that allows for mining with BTC aswell as for mining with ZET, Xjo and others? Or is it a choice for either - or?

Giving miners/pools maximum freedom to choose what to mine with their uno maybe no bad idea?
Can we open up for scrypt hashpower aswell?

I think in case we get started we should take in all hash that's possible for us, shouldn't we?

Since it requires an update: let's have it done properly and be done with it after one update  


----

BIG isn't good. There is no hash on the coin so what would you get from it? We should only discuss coins that can stand on their own as dead coins will not draw in more hash for us ... you'd achieve no more hash for uno just more  hash for the dead coin - doesn't make a great deal of sense ...
launching new coin could be done but i think we should try to reach out to already exisitng and running coins first as they have something to contribute - new coins have a hard time these days. Let's not spam out more coins if we don't have to.


*like the discussion. Could be coming good things from it ...

[Benefactor]

@ Benefactor: thanks for the new-new thing. Great!
m

I can be a little psychic, and I knew you'd like that one.  Someone should throw us people a tech clue once in a while, huh?

!!!