[UNO] Unobtanium Info & Discussion - Merge Mine w/BTC! - Update NOW to qt 0.11.5

[natmccoy]

Can somebody with tech knowledge comment on whether their most recent explanation makes any sense at all? How could they: (1) Have a technical problem that causes them to be able to process altcoin withdrawals but not bitcoin, litecoin etc. (2) Spend 1-4 months failing to resolve said tech problem (3) attempt a hardware upgrade that fails to fix the issue.

It just doesn't seem plausible to me at all but I don't know anything about the mechanics behind crypto exchanges.



Yes, we have done an incredible, impressive job of reducing the Cryptsy wallet. The cool thing is that we began that whole effort before things got really suspicious there, we're ahead of the curve for sure. It's hard to believe we've extracted nearly 40,000 coins ($70,000) from that place. But yes, there is still ~$30,000 worth of Unobtanium in Cryptsy's hands.

A few things on that note:

(1) Who owns those coins & is it possible that Vern holds many of them? I don't want to get too 'tin foil hat' here, but maybe Vern has played a large role in the dumping on Cryptsy the last several months. The severe downtrend in price (below 0.01) began just before Cryptsy began showing signs of problems. If anyone would be an 'altcoin whale' it would be the owner of Cryptsy, if they were to have serious financial issues they would sell their coins, & that CoinFire article mentioned accusations that someone at Cryptsy was using its position to trade using unfair methods to have an edge on their customers. Maybe what I'm saying is preposterous, I just can't understand how actual traders could leave so much there. Maybe it would help to look at other coins who use multiple exchanges but within the last year had greater than 20% of their total coins on Cryptsy. If all of those coins still have >15% on Cryptsy then we can probably conclude that people are very trusting, don't pay attention to crypto news, or just don't think about their coins for months or years at a time.  

(2) What will happen to the remaining Unobtanium if Cryptsy goes offline? Will they be locked in confiscated equipment during years of court proceedings, or dumped by Vern on other exchanges while he hides in China? I agree with FallingKnife that UNO will persevere and is in a better position than many Cryptsy-traded currencies, but 17,000 coins dumped on exchanges would cause some short-term chaos. I suppose the worst case scenario is that we spend a year eating through 17,000 coins at 0.005. Best case, I don't know, they go unclaimed for years then the government auctions them and we get some new whales and publicity?

Another possibility is that Cryptsy is taking the BTER approach, just not informing anyone about it. Maybe they're patiently accruing withdrawal fees hoping to become solvent again. Then over the next year or two people will gradually get their bitcoin back. The problem is if their damaged reputation creates a feedback-loop where they make less and less from fees which prevent payouts which damages their reputation further.

I know that I've said a lot of this stuff before, but it bears repeating as this goes on and the parallels mirror other collapses more closely.

RE: RDD, "Enough about them let's focus on..." Yep, we'll continue to focus on bolstering our other markets. When 2016 rolls around I say we start tackling the list of goals that BitcoinNational posted a while ago. But, until the Cryptsy issue ends, however it ends, it will remain the gorilla in the room.

RE: coins-e, are any of the other markets active there? If some markets are active then it's worth beefing ours up a little and mentioning UNO in the chat box once in a while. If every market is dead on coins-e then we might as well not place any efforts there.

[BitcoinCharlie]

In July, 2014, there was 56k Uno in the famous uRAN wallet, later discovered to be Cryptsy.
19K is still a lot, but its been worse.

Curious... has anyone checked coins-e.com lately? Is that one still working for deposits/withdrawals?

I was able to login.

I'm trying to send some $UNO over there. I'll report back in awhile...

Three hasn't been a trade there since July...

UPDATE

Tried to send 10 UNO to Coins-e. The TXID showed complete. UNO never showed up at coins-e

Submitted support ticket. Supposedly 24 hour turn around. We'll see...

[eddie13]

In July, 2014, there was 56k Uno in the famous uRAN wallet, later discovered to be Cryptsy.
19K is still a lot, but its been worse.

Curious... has anyone checked coins-e.com lately? Is that one still working for deposits/withdrawals?

I was able to login.

I'm trying to send some $UNO over there. I'll report back in awhile...

Three hasn't been a trade there since July...

UPDATE

Tried to send 10 UNO to Coins-e. The TXID showed complete. UNO never showed up at coins-e

Submitted support ticket. Supposedly 24 hour turn around. We'll see...

You seriously didn't send a small tester, before the 10 UNO, to an exchange that hasn't had a trade in months?

[BitcoinCharlie]

In July, 2014, there was 56k Uno in the famous uRAN wallet, later discovered to be Cryptsy.
19K is still a lot, but its been worse.

Curious... has anyone checked coins-e.com lately? Is that one still working for deposits/withdrawals?

I was able to login.

I'm trying to send some $UNO over there. I'll report back in awhile...

Three hasn't been a trade there since July...

UPDATE

Tried to send 10 UNO to Coins-e. The TXID showed complete. UNO never showed up at coins-e

Submitted support ticket. Supposedly 24 hour turn around. We'll see...

You seriously didn't send a small tester, before the 10 UNO, to an exchange that hasn't had a trade in months?

Perhaps 10 UNO is a small tester, my friend...

[FallingKnife]

BC, I thought you'd send 100 Un over there. Getting cautious, I see.

[BitcoinCharlie]

BC, I thought you'd send 100 Un over there. Getting cautious, I see.

Gotta be careful these days, with the GFC and all...

 

Nah, just wanted to send enough to make it a decent test. If it is lost, the entire UNO team is better off knowing to stay away.

[FallingKnife]

@Nat, that's some interesting tinfoil hat thinking.

If we consider these 2 assumptions, then their actions over the past 2 months seem very reasonable.
1) They lost a lot of btc to hackers, theft or had it confiscated. Whatever happened, its not there.
2) They still hold alot of Altcoins,

The problem:  How can our exchange convert our huge alt holdings into bitcoin so we have a shot at survival?
Logically,  to remain liquid you would want to quickly implement policies or actions that would cause people to trade their btc to buy your alts at a premium price.  

The perfect way to do this would be to frustrate withdrawals of bitcoin while altcoin withdrawals work. Then, simultaneously "lock" lots of accounts with btc in the name of KYC, and add a hefty withdrawal tax to encourage people to keep coins on the exchange.

We will just have to sit and watch this play out.  I suggest everyone download their Uno trade/deposit and withdraw history from Cryptsy. It could could in useful later if the exchange disappears.  I hope cryptsy doesn't go away, but if it does be ready.

If 19k Un were disappeared on cryptsy, we could be in for a fun time. We saw long months long dumping of Uno after the Coin-ex theft, and was only like 8k Uno.

[RDDRocket]

Well then.. who's ready to buy a couple thousand more?   

I will prepare to buy a few BTC after new years in hopes for that opportunity.

[BitcoinCharlie]

Well then.. who's ready to buy a couple thousand more?   

I will prepare to buy a few BTC after new years in hopes for that opportunity.

A thousand here, a thousand there. It really adds up! 

Flood the market!

[FallingKnife]

I am on Crypto.cat, channel Unobtanium, for the next 1 -2 hours. Stop by if you want to chat.

Also: sent a test Uno deposit to Coinbroker.io.  It cleared but did not post. I'll try to contact their customer service.  But Coinbroker looks completely dead.  I thought as long as BC is testing Coins-e, we should also look at Coinbroker.

[natmccoy]

2) They still hold alot of Altcoins,

The problem:  How can our exchange convert our huge alt holdings into bitcoin so we have a shot at survival?
Logically,  to remain liquid you would want to quickly implement policies or actions that would cause people to trade their btc to buy your alts at a premium price.  

The perfect way to do this would be to frustrate withdrawals of bitcoin while altcoin withdrawals work. Then, simultaneously "lock" lots of accounts with btc in the name of KYC, and add a heft withdrawal tax to encourage people to keep coins on the exchange.

Wow, I hadn't even thought about that. As crazy as it seems, that may be my favorite theory at this point. It's complicated and strange, but every aspect makes sense.

[FallingKnife]

Watching altcoin markets, and especially the Uno markets over a long period of time has taught me a few tricks. The basic lesson for me is: People usually act logically, even when what they are doing seems crazy to me. In the end, there is usually a logical explanation for their actions.

The goal of the new Cryptsy fee policies (withdrawal fee & no trade fees) have 3 purposes that benefit Cryptsy
First, to encourage you to keep your bitcoin/altcoin on the exchange.
Second, it earns them more money and punishes people want to flee the bad news
Third, it makes it cheap to convert your bitcoin to altcoins (no transaction fee), so the bitcoin remains on Cryptsy.

The entire debacle creates fake arb opportunities that in the near term will bring in more bitcoin as uninformed traders notice the honeypot (people were still sending Bitcoin to Coin-ex long after that exchange was abandoned). So traders move their altcoins in to sell at a premium bid price on Cryptsy, but discover they can't withdraw the pile of Bitcoin they earned.  Soon they realize that to escape, they must find another altcoin to buy at the high ask price, which pushes the price of the altcoin even higher, making the honeypot look even better.  This is why Uno is too high at Cryptsy and too low everywhere else.  

Cryptsy has become quite an altcoin sales machine in its present state, while users have to leave behind their Bitcoin.

[BitcoinNational]

FK has eloquently stated the theory of what I also guessed was the reasoning behind recent changes of policy with Cryptsy.

In hindsight the "KYC" enforcement maybe more with Know who it is that you double spent/sent a withdraw to ... makes requesting refunding more possible if you hold verified identity.  

And "to frustrate withdrawals of bitcoin" tightens the ability of 'unverified' clients to accidentally get double spends of size.

Hope is the operative word.  But I hope that they (BVern) might be able to game their way to a positive balance sheet over some months, else keep punting until deeper pockets come in to bail them out. (buy in)    

Last there is now a window of opportunity for coinbroker.io or Coins-e or even Comfort to resurface and pick up some of the lesser known cryptsy-only coins.  But that's a long shot

[BitcoinCharlie]

Update on Coins-E:

-18 hours later 10 UNO still have not arrived
-no repsonse from support (24 hour turnaround)

FK, I agree with the Cryptsy theory. Based upon their behaviour, they are definitely under water, needing BTC.

[FallingKnife]

Update on Coins-E:

-18 hours later 10 UNO still have not arrived
-no repsonse from support (24 hour turnaround)

FK, I agree with the Cryptsy theory. Based upon their behaviour, they are definitely under water, needing BTC.

Thanks for testing Uno on Coins-e.com

I am also testing Uno on Coinbroker.io.   Deposited Un did not arrive there.  Waiting 14 hours so far for support to resolve.

Their chart only shows tiny Un trades to Dec 4. Nothing after that.  
Not that anyone trades there, but stay away until we know that Uno can go in and out, and that there is still a person there answering support tickets.

By the way... just a plug for another thread I manage that tries to document bitcoin exchanges.  There are a lot more exchange closing and failures than most people realize.   By my count, 47 Bitcoin exchanges closed in 2015.  Failure is the rule in bitcoin exchanges. Its very, very common for exchanges to fail.

[The Frisian]

Cryptsy : The Dead End Game already started.

[Craig Swalby]

Here's part of an e-mail from Oct. 28, 2015 re: Coins-e Exchange UNO wallet deposits/withdrawals

Saul A <hi@coins-e.com> "Hey Craig - we have an issue with the UNO wallets. Corrupted dat file - luckily it's not too much as a payout. I'll have to pay you out in BTC if thats ok? Give me until Friday and I will have the withdrawal processed. Apologies for the long and stressful wait"

After they paid BTC equivelant of my UNO deposit, my activity with Coins-e Exchange was concluded.

Currently, I have an open ticket with Cryptsy asking if my ~0.25 BTC withdrawal will be completed within 2 hours.  No response after 10+ hours, I updated open ticket asking them to go ahead and cancel BTC withdrawal request and return BTC to my Cryptsy account balance.  A few weeks ago, I had the same thing happen - BTC withdrawal confirmed and nothing happened, opened a ticket, told to be patient OR cancel withdrawal request and return funds to account.

When/if BTC funds are returned to my Cryptsy account, I will likely buy whatever UNO is available and withdraw it somewhere more reliable.

[BitcoinCharlie]

Here's part of an e-mail from Oct. 28, 2015 re: Coins-e Exchange UNO wallet deposits/withdrawals

Saul A <hi@coins-e.com> "Hey Craig - we have an issue with the UNO wallets. Corrupted dat file - luckily it's not too much as a payout. I'll have to pay you out in BTC if thats ok? Give me until Friday and I will have the withdrawal processed. Apologies for the long and stressful wait"

CS Thanks for the coins-e experience info.

It's been over 24 hours with no response. I sent another support ticket. I'm guessing those 10 UNO have vanished into electron Heaven...oh well, I guess ten less UNO makes the remainder even more scarce! 

[FallingKnife]

Here's part of an e-mail from Oct. 28, 2015 re: Coins-e Exchange UNO wallet deposits/withdrawals

Saul A <hi@coins-e.com> "Hey Craig - we have an issue with the UNO wallets. Corrupted dat file - luckily it's not too much as a payout. I'll have to pay you out in BTC if thats ok? Give me until Friday and I will have the withdrawal processed. Apologies for the long and stressful wait"

CS Thanks for the coins-e experience info.

It's been over 24 hours with no response. I sent another support ticket. I'm guessing those 10 UNO have vanished into electron Heaven...oh well, I guess ten less UNO makes the remainder even more scarce!  

Same with Coinbroker.io.  I will ask Learminer to remove both exchanges from Unobtanium.uno.  I have already removed them from the OP.

Has anyone tried bitebi9.com  yet?  Can coins go in and out there?
By the way, here is an odd bit of information for you.  If you type "bitebi9.com" into Cryptsy's chat box, it is always automatically changed to "bitebi5.com."  The 9 always changes to a 5.

Update: I created a Bitebi9 account. It failed to generate a Uno deposit address. Be very careful with this exchange.
It is obviously a 100% cryptsy clone.

[FallingKnife]

LOL. This was posted 4 hours ago on Reddit. Does it sound familiar to readers of the Uno thread? https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/3xooqo/the_best_running_theory_on_what_is_happening_at/