ROCKMINER - miners using GEN3 ASICMINER chips

[Bonam]

Well the thing is, yes it seems there will be a passthrough on Havelock, whether it is run by Havelock or RM. What I was thinking is:
I was thinking on basically doing a groupbuy for the IPO. Everyone chips in their desired amount, and if it's enough (>= 100) I'll try and buy the respective shares at IPO price tomorrow. As soon as a public trading or share transfer is possible, I'll transfer them as the respective participants desire. If there are divs in the meantime, I'll forward them accordingly. If I don't succeed in buying the shares, everyone gets all of their respective BTC back.
Like 'Bonam' says: This is a question of time, the IPO's tomorrow night. Some people already sent a PM and declared their interest, but we'd need some more. So, feel free to sent a PM if you're interested and I'll get back to you when I know whether we can proceed.

@twentyseventy: Not stepping on anyone's toes Don't worry!

Maybe should start a group buy thread to facilitate organization. Also, using escrow?

[minerpumpkin]

Well the thing is, yes it seems there will be a passthrough on Havelock, whether it is run by Havelock or RM. What I was thinking is:
I was thinking on basically doing a groupbuy for the IPO. Everyone chips in their desired amount, and if it's enough (>= 100) I'll try and buy the respective shares at IPO price tomorrow. As soon as a public trading or share transfer is possible, I'll transfer them as the respective participants desire. If there are divs in the meantime, I'll forward them accordingly. If I don't succeed in buying the shares, everyone gets all of their respective BTC back.
Like 'Bonam' says: This is a question of time, the IPO's tomorrow night. Some people already sent a PM and declared their interest, but we'd need some more. So, feel free to sent a PM if you're interested and I'll get back to you when I know whether we can proceed.

@twentyseventy: Not stepping on anyone's toes Don't worry!

Maybe should start a group buy thread to facilitate organization. Also, using escrow?

I was reluctant to start a new thread until I could probe the potential interest in doing such an IPO-GB. Currently chances are about 50/50 we find enough people so I just stayed in this thread.
Escrow: Well, yeah I'd do that immediately, if it wasn't so incredibly unfeasible in this case. Since no one knows the exact procedure tomorrow, we have to assume, we'll have to have our BTC ready to go in a single address when the IPO starts. Apart from that I'd be ready to provide information on my person to some trusted member of the forum. The official EU reseller of ASICminer (yxt), for example, already has my address since I bought AM hardware from him But the usual suspects are fine with me...

[Adeally]

Is it still illegal for Chinese companies to ask for public funding? Just curious.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=263327.msg3002831#msg3002831

[freedomno1]

Observation post
Interested in the IPO but need to do a bit more research that said best of luck with your launching

[spinoff]

where will this operation be in 6 months, 1 year, 5 years? I mean, is the only purpose of this IPO to buy and assemble some (yet untested) gen 3 asicminer chips (and retain 80% of profit) or will it go on afterwards? how?

[minerpumpkin]

Okay, I received some more PMs of people interested in an IPO-GB, so I think I'll go ahead and create an official thread with the terms. Does this go into the Securities section, as well?
I've outlined in my previous post, why escrow will be difficult in this case. I do promise not to scam you and only use the BTC as agreed, and do a total refund if unsuccessful. Anyways, this is bitcoin world and therefore some promises tend to be worth nothing. Not in this case, I swear, but still: What do you guys need as an assurance? Some trusted member knowing my personal details, releasing them in case this goes wrong? SilentSonicBoom and/or yxt (official AM resellers) confirming they know my name and address? We don't have a lot of money to pay for someone or even do an escrow - since I don't plan on charging you anything for this. Suggestions?

[Bonam]

So some calculations on this IPO.

The OP's post #4 claims 6000-10000 1 TH miners produced within 1 year. Taking the lower estimate of 6000 TH produced in one year, let's do some math:

Given current difficulty rates are approximately doubling every month, and assuming hardware is produced on a continual basis (say, 500 TH / month to get to the 6000 TH in one year), then the BTC mined by the hardware will be:
2600 BTC for that sold in 1st month
1300 BTC for that sold in 2nd month
650 BTC for that sold in 3rd month, etc

For a total of 5200 mineable BTC.

To determine the amount of money payable to shareholders as dividends, one must subtract the costs of the chips and any other expenses. Let's assume that friedcat charges them $0.50 per GH as he mentioned in his chip thread here:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=438359.msg4816701#msg4816701

For 6000 TH, that's 3 M USD, or about 5000 BTC at current prices (~$600). Even assuming there are no other costs (obviously not true), that leaves only 200 BTC in profit, split among 75000 shares, or about 0.0027 BTC/share.

Even if friedcat offered the chips to RM for half the price he promised (and thus hurting his own investors), $0.25 per GH, that means 2500 BTC in chip costs. Again, assuming no other costs, that leaves 2700 BTC in profit divided among 75000 shares, which is 0.036 BTC/share.

In reality, costs other than chips are likely to be large, likely more than the chips themselves given the realities of every other industry I've ever heard about. The PCBs, miner boxes, employees, space, overhead, etc, all cost plenty of money, reducing any above mentioned profit further, or in fact even resulting in a loss.

This seems like not a very good deal for investors, unless one assumes they are buying into just the start of a business which will then grow far beyond its original plans (but this is not claimed/stated in the OP). Unless RM builds a lot more miners than projected, or plans to sell them to customers for far more than they'll ever mine, or difficulty growth slows substantially, 0.1 BTC per share seems like a lot.

Thoughts? Any mistakes in the above? I did this pretty quick so could be wrong on the numbers somewhere.

[sleger]

Total: 75,000 shares
Public Offering: 15,000 shares
IPO Price: 0.1BTC~0.15BTC/share

You are asking for around 2k BTC (or ~$1million) to investors and you will retain 80% of all profits, so you consider what you are bringing into the deal worth around $4million, can you precise what is worth that much that you are bringing to the table ? Will you and the other private holders work for free for a year, did you bring money to the table... ?

Also everybody is (rightfully) asking for your business plan, expected income, expenses ...

[bitcoin.newsfeed]

Total: 75,000 shares
Public Offering: 15,000 shares
IPO Price: 0.1BTC~0.15BTC/share

You are asking for around 2k BTC (or ~$1million) to investors and you will retain 80% of all profits, so you consider what you are bringing into the deal worth around $4million, can you precise what is worth that much that you are bringing to the table ? Will you and the other private holders work for free for a year, did you bring money to the table... ?

Also everybody is (rightfully) asking for your business plan, expected income, expenses ...

Great questions, me, redmetal, ex-trader, coldguy, spinoff were asking something very similar. But Rockxie went offline, so maybe we'll get answer tomorrow before IPO, or not. This piece of information is very crucial before any investment into RM.

@Bonam : Beautiful calculations, I did something similar myself. I will add one more thing :

1500 BTC from this offering = ~1.68PH of AM gen3 chips ... the manufacturing target is 6-10PH year, so RM need to do only 4-6 cycles (3-2months for cycle... its possible). So what exactly are we crowd funding here? Why they need our BTCs? For 1st order of batch 1 AM gen3 chips?

@Adrian-x : Thanks

[michaelGedi]

is there a maximum buy?

i.e. is it possible for someone with 1500 BTC to buy the whole lot? I can imagine a larger holder or 2 may just snap up the shares... is it a first come first serve basis?

[kmtan]

I am interest in...keep monitoring...

[rockxie]

IPO is not a easy thing. Everything is based on trust,sorry for my pool english and sorry for not replying every question.

We have started a Pre-IPO for large users.

[bitmoon]

So some calculations on this IPO.



For 6000 TH, that's 3 M USD, or about 5000 BTC at current prices (~$600). Even assuming there are no other costs (obviously not true), that leaves only 200 BTC in profit, split among 75000 shares, or about 0.0027 BTC/share.

Even if friedcat offered the chips to RM for half the price he promised (and thus hurting his own investors), $0.25 per GH, that means 2500 BTC in chip costs. Again, assuming no other costs, that leaves 2700 BTC in profit divided among 75000 shares, which is 0.036 BTC/share.

something wrong maybe?

[rockxie]

is there a maximum buy?

i.e. is it possible for someone with 1500 BTC to buy the whole lot? I can imagine a larger holder or 2 may just snap up the shares... is it a first come first serve basis?

We want to sell shares to more than one,but don't want too many shareholders at the first.

[rockxie]

IPO is not a easy thing. Everything is based on trust,sorry for my pool english and sorry for not replying every question.

We have started a Pre-IPO for large users.

Thanks Rockxie, I'm happy to take any of your answers on trust.

could I ask you to please respond to bitcoin.newsfeed request below?
effectively:
1) what % of the 60,000 Private shares are being sold and what % are being given to founders or friends?
2) as a public company your books are expected to be open to investors, will you conduct your accounting in a transparent way for inspection on the blockchain

thank you.

Thanks, one more thing. Some math here :

We're talking about 75 000 shares, (60 000 private and 15 000 public).

... so RM should have 7500 BTCs in IPO address after sold-out IPO. 6000 from private investors and 1500 from us. One great feature of the blockchain is that is an ultimate public ledger. So the question is, can you provide the proof, that you raised 6000 BTC in private round? I just don't want to see, that you're giving shares for free to you or your friends. Shareholders are equal, right? After that we can control flow of money in company, how much will go for chips orders, how many for other expenses etc, very transparent way, thanks to blockchain.

6000 60000 private shares are all belong to co-founders of ROCKMINER.
We are going to be a transparent company of course, but may not be 100% .


edit:made a mistake. 6k should be 60k.

[rockxie]

Rockxie,

Will there be a guaranteed return on IPO prior to owner shares being paid a dividend like AM did for their IPO?

In other words, will the owner shares be receiving dividends on day 1, or will only IPO shareholders receive dividends until .15 is paid out.

This IPO is intended to improve ROCKMINER's influence in community and find the right parter oversea, money is secondary, and this is the reason we only raise 1500BTC. All shares with the same rights.

[bitmoon]

IPO is not a easy thing. Everything is based on trust,sorry for my pool english and sorry for not replying every question.

We have started a Pre-IPO for large users.

feels like you are rushing, how many shares will be left in ipo day for public?

[yxt]

What value is brought to the company by this 60k private shares?
What exactly do they represent

EDIT: I would be pleased to be your partner in Europe. (If conditions are right)

[MilkyLep]

6000 private shares are all belong to co-founders of ROCKMINER.
We are going to be a transparent company of course, but may not be 100% .

So the other 54000 private shares were sold to Pre-IPO investors?

What are your plans for the end of the year when AM Gen3 chip's and your assembled miner's profit margin starts to taper off?

Is there Dividend protection for IPO investors?

[rockxie]

What value is brought to the company by this 60k private shares?
What exactly do they represent

EDIT: I would be pleased to be your partner in Europe. (If conditions are right)

1 Pre-investment
2 Clear profit model and short return period .
3 hard work of 8 people team from end of 2013.
4 1P hashrate chips of ASICMINER preOrder for the first batch to start up.
5 others.


Thanks for your concern. We are looking for partner oversea and some have already contacted.