1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[DeathAndTaxes]

Power draw?

+ 1

[1715064980]

1715064980

[1715064980]

1715064980

[1715064980]

1715064980

[finway]

Received? waiting.

[ragingazn628]

Connectivity:

USB 2.0

...

power draws max of USB 2.0 yeah can't be that much...


80w?

[DeathAndTaxes]

power draws max of USB 2.0 yeah can't be that much...
80w?

What are you planning on powering by USB? Your leaf blower?  BTW the USB specs limits power to much less than 80W BTW.

[Epoch]

Connectivity:

USB 2.0
...
power draws max of USB 2.0 yeah can't be that much...

80w?

I'm not sure what your point is. A standard USB2.0 port is specced to provide 500mA @ 5V. That's 2.5W. The Single isn't powered by the USB port; it has a separate power adapter. The Singles Inaba reviewed draw ~80W under full load. The shipping versions should be similar.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

My home internet connection is being a bastard, so I'm getting some timeouts to the pool which is affecting the hashrate and the displayed rate it will be lower than actual hashrate,  In retrospect, I probably should have put it in the datacenter, but then I wouldn't have been able to get pictures and such.  

I'm calling Time Warner today to ask them WTF is up.

Numbers and other stuff will be coming tonight.

The hash rate is already looking nice, so if that's with your dodgy connection I'm looking forward to seeing the stable numbers!

[Brunic]

I think it works like that:

1) You promise a great product of great performance at a good price to attract buyers.
2) You let the pre-order list build on, that way, you receive money to build your product. It also give you the option of starting without any money.
3) With the money, you build the product you advertise, using what competitors already offer. From what I see, it's probably this board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49180) four times in a nice box.
4) The cost of building the product is probably a lot higher than his sale price. In that case, it cost around 1600$ and sells at 599$.
5) When you build your first batch, you ship them so the first buyers can give feedback.
6) Shipping MUST be slow. It's important later on.
7) The first buyers are indirectly a part of the scam. They are honest people who are going to say to others :"Hey, this thing WORKS! It's awesome, blablabla". The feedback is almost garanteed to be positive.
In the meantime, you can adjust the price if you want. It let you get more money without problems because of the feedback.
9) People who didn't bought into the first batch want to be a part of it now. The price is good, the performance is great, and looking at the feedback of the first buyers, everything is as promised. So, they pre-order too on the next batch.
10) First buyers, getting their promise fulfilled (this box is awesome!) will probably buy another one too.
11) The shipping took a long time the first time, so, on the second time, people will accept the long delay between payment and the reception of their product. People waited two months the first time, they can wait another two months.
12) Wait for the pre-orders, take the money and run. The longer the "shipping" takes, the more time you have to GTFO.

Alternate version:
- You can redo the scam multiple times. You simply need to redo the steps 7 to 11. The second batch buyers will also give great feedback, creating a new wave of batch buyers.
- The scammer will be able to create multiple waves of buyers and increasing his revenue. It's more risky though, because he could find it hard to stop, and it's better if he can control when the scam stop (instead of being discovered). When he decides when to stop, he can use his "shipping" delay more effectively to get out and hide.

Well, I'm interested to see how this will end. Have fun!

[portron]

  Been following this thread for a while.

I'm more interested in the Rig Box then the single's... but let's see how these first batches roll out.

[yochdog]

I think it works like that:

1) You promise a great product of great performance at a good price to attract buyers.
2) You let the pre-order list build on, that way, you receive money to build your product. It also give you the option of starting without any money.
3) With the money, you build the product you advertise, using what competitors already offer. From what I see, it's probably this board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49180) four times in a nice box.
4) The cost of building the product is probably a lot higher than his sale price. In that case, it cost around 1600$ and sells at 599$.
5) When you build your first batch, you ship them so the first buyers can give feedback.
6) Shipping MUST be slow. It's important later on.
7) The first buyers are indirectly a part of the scam. They are honest people who are going to say to others :"Hey, this thing WORKS! It's awesome, blablabla". The feedback is almost garanteed to be positive.
In the meantime, you can adjust the price if you want. It let you get more money without problems because of the feedback.
9) People who didn't bought into the first batch want to be a part of it now. The price is good, the performance is great, and looking at the feedback of the first buyers, everything is as promised. So, they pre-order too on the next batch.
10) First buyers, getting their promise fulfilled (this box is awesome!) will probably buy another one too.
11) The shipping took a long time the first time, so, on the second time, people will accept the long delay between payment and the reception of their product. People waited two months the first time, they can wait another two months.
12) Wait for the pre-orders, take the money and run. The longer the "shipping" takes, the more time you have to GTFO.

Alternate version:
- You can redo the scam multiple times. You simply need to redo the steps 7 to 11. The second batch buyers will also give great feedback, creating a new wave of batch buyers.
- The scammer will be able to create multiple waves of buyers and increasing his revenue. It's more risky though, because he could find it hard to stop, and it's better if he can control when the scam stop (instead of being discovered). When he decides when to stop, he can use his "shipping" delay more effectively to get out and hide.

Well, I'm interested to see how this will end. Have fun!

Interesting theory.  Though it would be more lucrative for BFL to push the "Rig Box" after basking in the glow of initial positive reviews of the single. 

[bulanula]

I think it works like that:

1) You promise a great product of great performance at a good price to attract buyers.
2) You let the pre-order list build on, that way, you receive money to build your product. It also give you the option of starting without any money.
3) With the money, you build the product you advertise, using what competitors already offer. From what I see, it's probably this board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49180) four times in a nice box.
4) The cost of building the product is probably a lot higher than his sale price. In that case, it cost around 1600$ and sells at 599$.
5) When you build your first batch, you ship them so the first buyers can give feedback.
6) Shipping MUST be slow. It's important later on.
7) The first buyers are indirectly a part of the scam. They are honest people who are going to say to others :"Hey, this thing WORKS! It's awesome, blablabla". The feedback is almost garanteed to be positive.
In the meantime, you can adjust the price if you want. It let you get more money without problems because of the feedback.
9) People who didn't bought into the first batch want to be a part of it now. The price is good, the performance is great, and looking at the feedback of the first buyers, everything is as promised. So, they pre-order too on the next batch.
10) First buyers, getting their promise fulfilled (this box is awesome!) will probably buy another one too.
11) The shipping took a long time the first time, so, on the second time, people will accept the long delay between payment and the reception of their product. People waited two months the first time, they can wait another two months.
12) Wait for the pre-orders, take the money and run. The longer the "shipping" takes, the more time you have to GTFO.

Alternate version:
- You can redo the scam multiple times. You simply need to redo the steps 7 to 11. The second batch buyers will also give great feedback, creating a new wave of batch buyers.
- The scammer will be able to create multiple waves of buyers and increasing his revenue. It's more risky though, because he could find it hard to stop, and it's better if he can control when the scam stop (instead of being discovered). When he decides when to stop, he can use his "shipping" delay more effectively to get out and hide.

Well, I'm interested to see how this will end. Have fun!

Interesting theory.  Though it would be more lucrative for BFL to push the "Rig Box" after basking in the glow of initial positive reviews of the single.  

Makes perfect sense Brunic !

Now, where the heck is my RIG BOX

Getting FPGAs that cost $4000 and selling them for $700 ? Rig box getting 1.5x performance compared to 32 singles ? Rejected business license ? Something definitely stinks here.

Why only Inaba gets a device ? Is he VIP ? Part of the "gang". Who knows but I am not buying their BS ...

I wanna see shipping numbers guys and not only Inaba or members of the "gang" from Kansas etc.

[Tomatocage]

I think it works like that:

1) You promise a great product of great performance at a good price to attract buyers.
2) You let the pre-order list build on, that way, you receive money to build your product. It also give you the option of starting without any money.
3) With the money, you build the product you advertise, using what competitors already offer. From what I see, it's probably this board (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=49180) four times in a nice box.
4) The cost of building the product is probably a lot higher than his sale price. In that case, it cost around 1600$ and sells at 599$.
5) When you build your first batch, you ship them so the first buyers can give feedback.
6) Shipping MUST be slow. It's important later on.
7) The first buyers are indirectly a part of the scam. They are honest people who are going to say to others :"Hey, this thing WORKS! It's awesome, blablabla". The feedback is almost garanteed to be positive.
In the meantime, you can adjust the price if you want. It let you get more money without problems because of the feedback.
9) People who didn't bought into the first batch want to be a part of it now. The price is good, the performance is great, and looking at the feedback of the first buyers, everything is as promised. So, they pre-order too on the next batch.
10) First buyers, getting their promise fulfilled (this box is awesome!) will probably buy another one too.
11) The shipping took a long time the first time, so, on the second time, people will accept the long delay between payment and the reception of their product. People waited two months the first time, they can wait another two months.
12) Wait for the pre-orders, take the money and run. The longer the "shipping" takes, the more time you have to GTFO.

Alternate version:
- You can redo the scam multiple times. You simply need to redo the steps 7 to 11. The second batch buyers will also give great feedback, creating a new wave of batch buyers.
- The scammer will be able to create multiple waves of buyers and increasing his revenue. It's more risky though, because he could find it hard to stop, and it's better if he can control when the scam stop (instead of being discovered). When he decides when to stop, he can use his "shipping" delay more effectively to get out and hide.

Well, I'm interested to see how this will end. Have fun!

Interesting theory.  Though it would be more lucrative for BFL to push the "Rig Box" after basking in the glow of initial positive reviews of the single.  

Makes perfect sense Brunic !

Now, where the heck is my RIG BOX

Getting FPGAs that cost $4000 and selling them for $700 ? Rig box getting 1.5x performance compared to 32 singles ? Rejected business license ? Something definitely stinks here.

Why only Inaba gets a device ? Is he VIP ? Part of the "gang". Who knows but I am not buying their BS ...

I wanna see shipping numbers guys and not only Inaba or members of the "gang" from Kansas etc.

B-b-but the grapes... they really are sour.  Why oh why won't anyone believe me???

[Epoch]

I think it works like that:
<snip>
Well, I'm interested to see how this will end. Have fun!

What you are describing is known as a 'long con', the idea of which been brought up here before. By its nature it is difficult to recognize until enough product has actually shipped (at which point it becomes increasingly clear that it is not a long con).

BFL has had delays, but the delays seem to be for legit reasons (redesign). Let's hope these delays are now behind them and they can catch up to their '4-6 week' promised shipping time.

[SysRun]

Inaba is a respected member of the bitcoin community, in most of our opinions. He stands to make much more over the long term than he would in a short term grift.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

The worlds supply of tin foil must be rapidly depleting.   

[SysRun]

The worlds supply of tin foil must be rapidly depleting.   

Maybe they have a bunch of preorders and hope they can lock down the supply by spreading FUD.

[RandyFolds]

The worlds supply of tin foil must be rapidly depleting.   

I'll believe it when they ship on order. How about that business license?

[kano]

Inaba is a respected member of the bitcoin community, in most of our opinions. He stands to make much more over the long term than he would in a short term grift.

He had remote access to one (and he's not the only one who has in the past)
I presume he hasn't actually got one yet?

Someone else who I know does have access to them even asked the other day if anyone wanted to access one where I linger in IRC ...

[Inaba]

Words fail me

[kano]

Words fail me

Ah OK - it's 3 pages back - I didn't realise there had been 100 posts in the last 5 hours while I was asleep
especially when I saw the comment at the top about Half-Life-3 again at the top of the last page.
Oh well - reading fail by me.

So ... what software are you using to mine on it?
(I had fun going thru the fpga code with an "Icarus" guy yesterday trying to sort out a copy/paste/edit of the BFL code for Icarus)

[Brunic]

Why only Inaba gets a device ? Is he VIP ? Part of the "gang". Who knows but I am not buying their BS ...

7) The first buyers are indirectly a part of the scam. They are honest people who are going to say to others :"Hey, this thing WORKS! It's awesome, blablabla". The feedback is almost garanteed to be positive.

I've re-read myself, and maybe I wasn't clear enough. I don't accuse Inaba into that scam. I really believe he received his box and that his feedback is genuine. It's only that the first buyers, getting their awesome product, will certainly leave good feedback. If I bought that product, and received those specs at that price, I would certainly act that way too.

And that's the point, for the scam to work, it needs to be "approved" first by people with a good reputation. But those first buyers aren't doing this to scam, they are only honest with their impressions and, sadly, it serves the purpose of the scam.

What you are describing is known as a 'long con', the idea of which been brought up here before.

Yeah, but it's the first time I'm reading this topic and it's 72 pages long 

Anyway, that was my last intervention on that topic. I just wanted to write my theory because, if I was a con man and in the shoes of the Butterflylabs CEO, that's exactly what I would do. The potential revenue for this scam is huge, and my greed could use a part of it.