1GH/s, 20w, $700 (was $500) — Butterflylabs, is it for real? (Part 2)

[RandyFolds]

I think when someone sees what they mean by hand assembly, if you've ever done anything vaguely like it, you'll understand why it's a slow process.  I know I wouldn't want to be doing it...  They also do a burn in of the unit to make sure it's functioning, which takes time that can't be avoided.

Doesn't it cost a trifling amount to have your board populated at an assembly house? Hire some fucking day laborers at have them screw on fans.

Something about a Chinese new year, which apparently takes more than a week or 2 four months to celebrate 

Ohhh....that explains everything!

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[Inaba]

BFL ended up selling me the review unit, mostly because I refused to give it back.  

Anyway:

Maybe for him about 12 weeks after they first promised 4-6 weeks?

The question was: "...if you know it's going to be longer than that it is wrong <sic>"

My response was appropriate.  They did not know it was going to be wrong.. I believe they offered that date in good faith, and nothing in this or the last thread is evidence to the contrary.

Or ... for me when Sonny's email was posted proving that the reason the first version didn't do what they advertised and accepted money for, was that it didn't exist (it was a simulation) back when they were advertising details and accepting money for it

I fail to see how it has anything to do with shipping times.

1.  do you live nearby Kansas where they're located and is that why you were able to go and view demo versions in person?

2.  is BFL a large corporation or a start up shop?

3.  why do you think they are so silent here on the forums?  their products sell for good money especially that Rig so i'd assume they'd have a dedicated person available to answer all questions and assuage the masses here.

4.  i left a phone message for them 3d ago and never received a call back or anything and from what i read around here others are also not getting any feedback.  you have to acknowledge at least that this is very strange behavior for a corp that stands to make huge amounts of money selling these devices.

1. Yes.
2. No, Yes.
3. Because the forums, like many forums of this type, are not a professional environment, and the people inhabiting them are barely fit for human contact. I, and many people here, are veteran Internet Forum goers, so we are familiar with the incredible amount of shit that flows through the screen.  Any uninitiated, sane human would be taken aback and disgusted by what passes as normal conversation here.  As Sonny was/is unfamiliar with online forums, he was understandably upset by the behavior and elected to not participate in it... probably a wise move, because you can't make a tower of gold out of a pile of shit, which is what 99.9% of these two threads are.  So why bother?  You can email them if you are so inclined.
4. I don't think they stand to make "huge amounts of money," and while I agree that perhaps 3 days without communication is something that should be addressed, I do know they are working exceptionally long hours to get these things out the door.  See below for more on this.

There have been communications coming out of BFL that they are hand assembling (you said so yourself).  They know its going to be slow, yet they STILL continue to promise delivery in 4-6 weeks for new orders.  So essentially they have to ship all outstanding orders AND the new orders all within 4-6 weeks.  GLWT.

They are hand assembling to meet the deadline as close as they can, instead of waiting through Chinese New Year and the "dead period" afterwards to get them assembled in Asia.  They are also "hand assembling" to accommodate the "revised" heatsink issue... this, I suspect, is what's taking the lions share of the time.  I probably would have drilled a hole in my head if I was staring down the number of units I had to cut that they are in the process of doing. I hope ya'll bought stock in dremel.

I expect Rev 2 units will be preassembled and ready to go.

I have compiled shares submitted for various times during the past 66 hours.  Hopefully, the decrease in hash speed is due to instability in his internet connection.  So for the last 66 hours the average hash speed is 739 MHash/s. The data is in the link below.

It has not been mining non-stop. I took it offline for awhile to move it from my house to downtown KC, and it's been offline a couple times while I did some other tests and adjustments to the software.  I will leave it online for the next 4 days or so without interruption if you want to start clocking it now, as of 18:00 CST.  If it crashes or is interrupted for some other reason, I will report that.

[fred0]

I have compiled shares submitted for various times during the past 66 hours.  Hopefully, the decrease in hash speed is due to instability in his internet connection.  So for the last 66 hours the average hash speed is 739 MHash/s. The data is in the link below.

It has not been mining non-stop. I took it offline for awhile to move it from my house to downtown KC, and it's been offline a couple times while I did some other tests and adjustments to the software.  I will leave it online for the next 4 days or so without interruption if you want to start clocking it now, as of 18:00 CST.  If it crashes or is interrupted for some other reason, I will report that.

I see breaks in the data where I thought that occurred.  That's why I calculated the MH/s for each interval in addition to the total...

Thanks for all your info regarding this!

[DeathAndTaxes]

Something about a Chinese new year, which apparently takes more than a week or 2 to celebrate 

Well they do have assembly houses in the US (and Germany, France, England, Japan, South Korea, Thailand, ... etc).

[cypherdoc]

BFL ended up selling me the review unit, mostly because I refused to give it back.  

Anyway:

Maybe for him about 12 weeks after they first promised 4-6 weeks?

The question was: "...if you know it's going to be longer than that it is wrong <sic>"

My response was appropriate.  They did not know it was going to be wrong.. I believe they offered that date in good faith, and nothing in this or the last thread is evidence to the contrary.

Or ... for me when Sonny's email was posted proving that the reason the first version didn't do what they advertised and accepted money for, was that it didn't exist (it was a simulation) back when they were advertising details and accepting money for it

I fail to see how it has anything to do with shipping times.

1.  do you live nearby Kansas where they're located and is that why you were able to go and view demo versions in person?

2.  is BFL a large corporation or a start up shop?

3.  why do you think they are so silent here on the forums?  their products sell for good money especially that Rig so i'd assume they'd have a dedicated person available to answer all questions and assuage the masses here.

4.  i left a phone message for them 3d ago and never received a call back or anything and from what i read around here others are also not getting any feedback.  you have to acknowledge at least that this is very strange behavior for a corp that stands to make huge amounts of money selling these devices.

1. Yes.
2. No, Yes.
3. Because the forums, like many forums of this type, are not a professional environment, and the people inhabiting them are barely fit for human contact. I, and many people here, are veteran Internet Forum goers, so we are familiar with the incredible amount of shit that flows through the screen.  Any uninitiated, sane human would be taken aback and disgusted by what passes as normal conversation here.  As Sonny was/is unfamiliar with online forums, he was understandably upset by the behavior and elected to not participate in it... probably a wise move, because you can't make a tower of gold out of a pile of shit, which is what 99.9% of these two threads are.  So why bother?  You can email them if you are so inclined.
4. I don't think they stand to make "huge amounts of money," and while I agree that perhaps 3 days without communication is something that should be addressed, I do know they are working exceptionally long hours to get these things out the door.  See below for more on this.

There have been communications coming out of BFL that they are hand assembling (you said so yourself).  They know its going to be slow, yet they STILL continue to promise delivery in 4-6 weeks for new orders.  So essentially they have to ship all outstanding orders AND the new orders all within 4-6 weeks.  GLWT.

They are hand assembling to meet the deadline as close as they can, instead of waiting through Chinese New Year and the "dead period" afterwards to get them assembled in Asia.  They are also "hand assembling" to accommodate the "revised" heatsink issue... this, I suspect, is what's taking the lions share of the time.  I probably would have drilled a hole in my head if I was staring down the number of units I had to cut that they are in the process of doing. I hope ya'll bought stock in dremel.

I expect Rev 2 units will be preassembled and ready to go.

I have compiled shares submitted for various times during the past 66 hours.  Hopefully, the decrease in hash speed is due to instability in his internet connection.  So for the last 66 hours the average hash speed is 739 MHash/s. The data is in the link below.

It has not been mining non-stop. I took it offline for awhile to move it from my house to downtown KC, and it's been offline a couple times while I did some other tests and adjustments to the software.  I will leave it online for the next 4 days or so without interruption if you want to start clocking it now, as of 18:00 CST.  If it crashes or is interrupted for some other reason, I will report that.

thanks for the answers Inaba.  i think you've done a service to the community by evaluating this product so thoroughly.  looks like a great unit to me.  thanks.

[imsaguy]

Maybe for him about 12 weeks after they first promised 4-6 weeks?

The question was: "...if you know it's going to be longer than that it is wrong <sic>"

My response was appropriate.  They did not know it was going to be wrong.. I believe they offered that date in good faith, and nothing in this or the last thread is evidence to the contrary.

Perhaps, but then they should remove the expected shipping times from their website.

[Inaba]

So what should they put there, instead?

[DeathAndTaxes]

So what should they put there, instead?

The truth?  We promised shipping product 3 months ago and nothing has shipped yet.  Pre-orders are accepted at this time however shipping times can not be guaranteed.  Pre-orders are shipped in the order they were made. As we get closer to your batch shipping you will be advised of a shipping timeframe.

[abeaulieu]

So what should they put there, instead?

The truth?  We promised shipping product 3 months ago and nothing has shipped yet.  Pre-orders are accepted at this time however shipping times can not be guaranteed.  Pre-orders are shipped in the order they were made. As we get closer to your batch shipping you will be advised of a shipping timeframe.

Well put. I second that.

[kano]

...
Anyway:

Maybe for him about 12 weeks after they first promised 4-6 weeks?

The question was: "...if you know it's going to be longer than that it is wrong <sic>"

My response was appropriate.  They did not know it was going to be wrong.. I believe they offered that date in good faith, and nothing in this or the last thread is evidence to the contrary.

That was a joke because it is QUITE PLAINLY obvious they knew 4-6 weeks was bullshit for a number of reasons:

They knew it from the start when they first said 4-6 weeks coz they didn't even have a device that existed. (A)

They knew it back when they first got to 6 weeks and still had nothing to sell.
Obvious to anyone with half an ounce of intelligence.

They knew it again when they found out that their Rev 1 design was crap due using 4 times the power of the simulation.
(Though I still wonder how they didn't work that out before you plugged it in for them ... they couldn't test their own hardware?)

They knew it again when they decided to work that old lady to death making the boards instead of using a slave labour circuit production shop in somewhere other than China.

Throughout this entire time they keep replying with 4-6 weeks - magic how that number never changes - every project plan they wrote came up with 4-6 weeks ... or did nothing like a project plan ever exist or ever get revised ...

10 years experience ... doing what? Flipping burgers at McDonald's sounds more accurate.

Is it a 10 year experienced business or some guy's garage?

A garage is fine if that's what it is and they had said that, but it's not what they have ever said.

Or ... for me when Sonny's email was posted proving that the reason the first version didn't do what they advertised and accepted money for, was that it didn't exist (it was a simulation) back when they were advertising details and accepting money for it

I fail to see how it has anything to do with shipping times.
...

See the PLAINLY obvious item (A) above.

[Inaba]

I disagree with nearly every point.  Not sure it's worth going over point by point though. 

Believe what you want, I'd say I'm basking in the warmth of a functioning unit making a couple bucks a day, but it's not really that warm.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

I disagree with nearly every point.  Not sure it's worth going over point by point though.  

Believe what you want, I'd say I'm basking in the warmth of a functioning unit making a couple bucks a day, but it's not really that warm.

I'm with you.  There must be a mild form of retardation sweeping this forum

Just on that, this place is an absolutely terrible advocate for Bitcoin.   The idiot ratio is off the charts.  There needs some serious changes to moderation here if we ever want the general public to get serious about this currency.   Its absolutely shocking that this place is likely one of the first places new people are exposed to when investigating Bitcoin

[SysRun]

I disagree with nearly every point.  Not sure it's worth going over point by point though.  

Believe what you want, I'd say I'm basking in the warmth of a functioning unit making a couple bucks a day, but it's not really that warm.

I'm with you.  There must be a mild form of retardation sweeping this forum

Just on that, this place is an absolutely terrible advocate for Bitcoin.   The idiot ratio is off the charts.  There needs some serious changes to moderation here if we ever want the general public to get serious about this currency.   Its absolutely shocking that this place is likely one of the first places new people are exposed to when investigating Bitcoin

B
Hold the phone, what's wrong with the points that Kano raised? I don't believe that BFL is completely absolved from any unethical behavior because the end justifies the means... and rolo, straw men don't exempt you from the merits of Kano's points.

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

I disagree with nearly every point.  Not sure it's worth going over point by point though.  

Believe what you want, I'd say I'm basking in the warmth of a functioning unit making a couple bucks a day, but it's not really that warm.

I'm with you.  There must be a mild form of retardation sweeping this forum

Just on that, this place is an absolutely terrible advocate for Bitcoin.   The idiot ratio is off the charts.  There needs some serious changes to moderation here if we ever want the general public to get serious about this currency.   Its absolutely shocking that this place is likely one of the first places new people are exposed to when investigating Bitcoin

B
Hold the phone, what's wrong with the points that Kano raised? I don't believe that BFL is completely absolved from any unethical behavior because the end justifies the means... and rolo, straw men don't exempt you from the merits of Kano's points.

I didn't even read Kanos post, he's just out to cause trouble in this thread, I have no time for him.

I'm with Inaba with regards to "who cares what the trolls think".   He has a unit he's happy with, I'm certain mine will arrive shortly, that's all that matters.

Trolls will be trolls, that's never going to change.

I stick by the rest of my post regarding the dire state this forum is in.  Bitcoin is screwed if this place isn't put under some stricter guidelines.

[DeathAndTaxes]

Bitcoin is screwed if this place isn't put under some stricter guidelines.

Says the guy with 58 posts (about half of which were battle of "wits" with trolls).

Bitcoin is a decentralized currency, if it "fails" because of trolls on a forum then it wasn't worth saving to begin with.

[ZodiacDragon84]

Bitcoin is screwed if this place isn't put under some stricter guidelines.

Says the guy with 58 posts (about half of which were battle of "wits" with trolls).

Bitcoin is a decentralized currency, if it "fails" because of trolls on a forum then it wasn't worth saving to begin with.

+1

why are we still on this thread???

[yochdog]

Bitcoin is screwed if this place isn't put under some stricter guidelines.

Bitcoin is a decentralized currency, if it "fails" because of trolls on a forum then it wasn't worth saving to begin with.

x1000

[RoloTonyBrownTown]

Of course bitcoin is going to live or die based on its own merits, but when a new person becomes interested and the first place they're confronted with is this forum filled with sociopaths it's obviously not going to create a fantastic first impression is it.

[UpsyDaisy]

Here is what i got from ButterFly Labs this morning:

Hi XXXXX, your production is scheduled for late february giving you delivery within your 4-6 week delivery time.

[kano]

Icarus is for sale, he is on batch 3... i don't know if I am helping or even if this is what you are talking about...

i have a bounty for the first person to get a BFL single and that has not been claimed yet.


also ill pay 5 BTC to anyone who full helps me understand why this things gets 500% eff when my 7970 only gets 99%...

ill pay much much much more to get my 7970 at 500%

Run cgminer on EMC (with -g 1 and probably -I 11) - how much more will you now pay me over the 5 BTC I'm obviously not gonna get
Edit: Oh yeah you need SDK 2.6 and -k poclbm (but I think the latest version works out it's a 7970 and uses poclbm anyway when you have SDK 2.6)

As stated already but I will repeat - Efficiency makes no difference to how much BTC you get.
It is just the number shares you return vs the number of getworks you do.
It still takes the same amount of time to generate each share.
It's good for the pool if you only ask for a getwork on average every 5 shares rather than every 1 share.
It may be good for you also if your miner is ever waiting for work to do (i.e. is running below it's normal hash rate) but that should be rare if ever.

Why would you not get the 5 BTC? It has been sent to the address in your sig. I will work on getting the this up to 500% but i'm still not sure I will be able to on a 7970 now that I understand this a bit more.

Thanks.

Thanks for the 5 BTC! (Yes I got it)
I was just goading you into paying me
But no I was joking about paying anything for the setup info coz you don't gain anything from it so there's no reason to pay anyone to tell you about it.
Higher efficiency does give you less work requests, but the only extra BTC you could gain out of that would be idle GPU time due to emptying your work queue.
If your miner doesn't handle the work queue well enough to avoid that - change to cgminer now!

Edit: there's about to be a new SDK apparently out soon ... hmm I wonder if they fixed the crap 2.6 is for the cards before the new 79xx series