Sanction isn't the right option

[inthelongrun]

Sanction will certainly make a greater impact on the country, those who are not involved with war will feel long suffering, we must find the best solution besides sanction, and many things that can be done without having to apply sanctions as happened with many countries such as Iraq , North Korea, and so on.

Will you care to explain what is supposed to be done if let's say you are the head of NATO or EU or the US/UK/France/Germany? Although I really believed that the leaders of these countries and organizations realized the huge impact of a boomerang because Europe is heavily dependent especially on Russian gas. They may find another source but it takes time and it will be more expensive because the long-term goal is clean energy. I felt bad for Ukraine but this war will end in defeat.

Iran despite heavy sanctions is still breathing and is actually not that poor due to their huge gas and oil which are sold secretly at discounted prices. North Korea is bleeding financially. But unlike Iran, North Korea has its own nukes which is why they cannot be touched easily by its enemies.
 

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[Fortify]

It is true that economic sanctions may break the backs of many countries. The country will become poor, maybe try to be self-sufficient, if it can, it will be able to survive, but it will not be able to shout at all. However, these theories may apply to Venezuela, Iran, and North Korea. But what happens when you try to play this kind of game with superpowers?

The greatest lesson of history is that no one learns from history. The same thing that is being done with Russia today is being done with Germany. Following Germany's defeat in World War I, Germany was burdened with a huge debt burden of about 269 billion gold coins. In terms of money, it is equivalent to 1 lakh tons of gold. The sole purpose of imposing this huge debt was that France and Britain wanted Germany to break the economic deadlock and not even think of war for the next hundred years. A master plan to subdue Germany without a war.

The problem is, only the weak die in the rice without hitting the hand. If you want to kill someone who has a sword in his hand, he will snatch the rice from you.

This humiliating chapter of the Treaty of Versailles provoked widespread outrage inside Germany. The Allies were to blame for Germany's economic woes at the time, and the people were agitating. When Hit-Lar finally came to power, he completely refused to repay the loan.

This debt burden and all the degrading chapters of the 1st Treaty of Versailles led to the rise of extremism in Germany. By capitalizing on which, the national hero becomes a hit-and-run offensive. Those who pushed for the treaty rather than cripple Germany seemed to invite more rather than avoid war through the treaty. Everyone knows the history of violence in the rest of Europe.

The context is not exactly the same, but how realistic is it if the West thinks that Russia will continue to weaken the economy by quietly imposing sanctions on this huge military power? It is possible to put pressure on Russia on various issues if we have economic relations. But when Russia is left completely helpless, will they apologize to the West as helpless? It is difficult to believe that Russia will do that with such a huge military force. When the Russians turn from angry to extremist against the West over Russia's problems, there may be a repeat of what happened in Germany. Which will devastate Europe.

They concede that the attempt to economically cripple Germany at the end of World War I was suicidal, which is why German leaders were tried after World War II but no attempt was made to harm the German nation. But they want to do the same thing with Russia again. It remains to be seen whether the outcome will be the same again or not.

You contradict your own headline in the very first sentence that you posted in the thread. Sanctions do not work in the short term, but medium and long term Russia is already facing a severe economic shock to come. It's last major export is gas and oil, yet it has shown that it is a very unreliable partner when it comes to energy exports so that source of revenue will dry up. It has substantial currency reserves, but it is also funding a very expensive war right now and once it burns through all the cash it will have very little economic production. Unfortunately Putin has chosen the way of the madman, Europe was at relative peace for many decades and it is the average Russia who will suffer the consequences while he sits around in his lavish palaces throughout retirement and hundreds of thousands of people spill blood for no reason.

[Smack That Ace]

it is better to persuade the government to immediately stop the war.

This doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon, no one wants to stop this fight until the goal is achieved.
Russia getting bogged down in the war is a big win for the US government and look at how they pumped weapons into the Ukrainian military. They pretend that they are assisting Ukraine in defending the country but actually they want to prolong the war, the longer the war lasts, the weaker Russia becomes and that is their goal.

Everyone in the world wants this war to stop, but I still don't see any signal that this war will stop. Who will be the first to give in? or this war will stop when the US government wants to.

[amishmanish]

We need a international system wherein we need to punish leaders not the nation's. What wrong did common Russians or Iranians had committed to suffer sanctions. NATO at the door of Russia, and Russia hits Ukraine...this could had been prevented and Manny ukrainian lives could have been saved. Only if common sense had prevailed.

[Cryptock]

We need a international system wherein we need to punish leaders not the nation's. What wrong did common Russians or Iranians had committed to suffer sanctions. NATO at the door of Russia, and Russia hits Ukraine...this could had been prevented and Manny ukrainian lives could have been saved. Only if common sense had prevailed.

I was of the same option since the start of the war.
How many countries USA has bombed - yet they are superpower no sanctions. This is will keep going on when powerful will suppress the weak and there will be innocent killing and hatred in the world

[Argoo]

We need a international system wherein we need to punish leaders not the nation's. What wrong did common Russians or Iranians had committed to suffer sanctions. NATO at the door of Russia, and Russia hits Ukraine...this could had been prevented and Manny ukrainian lives could have been saved. Only if common sense had prevailed.

I was of the same option since the start of the war.
How many countries USA has bombed - yet they are superpower no sanctions. This is will keep going on when powerful will suppress the weak and there will be innocent killing and hatred in the world

And how should the leaders be punished, not the nation? Are these the same sanctions? That is, everything that is necessary for the continuation of the war will come to Russia from other countries, and the sanctions will apply to Putin and his entourage? For example, let's deprive Putin of imported cars and household appliances. Will they continue to flow into Russia and at the same time be banned from Putin? Doesn't this seem funny? It is enough for these leaders not to have bank accounts and real estate abroad, and these leaders will not give a damn about sanctions.
On the other hand, is the nation of Russians really not to blame for the fact that civilians are dying every day in Ukraine, their homes, schools, hospitals, etc. are being destroyed. This is not done by the nation of Russians? Maybe Ukraine is attacked by aliens? Or are they husbands, children, fathers and brothers of those "innocent" Russians? And about 300 thousand Russian soldiers and officers who are being killed in Ukraine, are they also innocent?
Something in Russia is not visible at all mass protests against the war. And according to polls, more than half of the "innocent" residents of Russia support Putin's actions to seize Ukraine. No, all citizens of Russia should bear responsibility for this.

[be.open]

On the other hand, is the nation of Russians really not to blame for the fact that civilians are dying every day in Ukraine, their homes, schools, hospitals, etc. are being destroyed. This is not done by the nation of Russians? Maybe Ukraine is attacked by aliens? Or are they husbands, children, fathers and brothers of those "innocent" Russians? And about 300 thousand Russian soldiers and officers who are being killed in Ukraine, are they also innocent?
Something in Russia is not visible at all mass protests against the war. And according to polls, more than half of the "innocent" residents of Russia support Putin's actions to seize Ukraine. No, all citizens of Russia should bear responsibility for this.

I am glad that you openly express your fascist views here on the forum.

[Argoo]

On the other hand, is the nation of Russians really not to blame for the fact that civilians are dying every day in Ukraine, their homes, schools, hospitals, etc. are being destroyed. This is not done by the nation of Russians? Maybe Ukraine is attacked by aliens? Or are they husbands, children, fathers and brothers of those "innocent" Russians? And about 300 thousand Russian soldiers and officers who are being killed in Ukraine, are they also innocent?
Something in Russia is not visible at all mass protests against the war. And according to polls, more than half of the "innocent" residents of Russia support Putin's actions to seize Ukraine. No, all citizens of Russia should bear responsibility for this.

I am glad that you openly express your fascist views here on the forum.

These are not fascist views, so don't label them. I proceed from the fact that, in terms of the form of government, the Russian Federation is a republic where the people, the nation, are vested with the highest power in the country. The people elect or hire senior government officials to a certain position and determine the scope of their rights and duties. These officials must act within and on the basis of the Constitution, its laws and regulations. Such a social structure is fixed, with some exceptions, in all civilized states. Therefore, the people, the nation is responsible for the actions of its officials, including if a half-witted senile with imperial ambitions turns out to be in power. For such cases, the people must provide for effective forms of dismissal or recall of such an official from office. Also in this case, no state or their officials have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of a foreign state. I repeat once again: with such a structure of state power, only the people, the nation is responsible for the actions of their officials in power. Unless, of course, you consider Russia to be a monarchy in terms of the form of government - a kingdom, a kingdom, an empire, etc., where the sovereign ruler is not responsible and does not account for his actions to the people. I am a lawyer by education and profession and I know what I write. There is no manifestation of fascist views in my judgments. I do not put a certain nation on some grounds above other nations.

[Cryptock]

These are not fascist views, so don't label them. I proceed from the fact that, in terms of the form of government, the Russian Federation is a republic where the people, the nation, are vested with the highest power in the country. The people elect or hire senior government officials to a certain position and determine the scope of their rights and duties. These officials must act within and on the basis of the Constitution, its laws and regulations. Such a social structure is fixed, with some exceptions, in all civilized states. Therefore, the people, the nation is responsible for the actions of its officials, including if a half-witted senile with imperial ambitions turns out to be in power. For such cases, the people must provide for effective forms of dismissal or recall of such an official from office. Also in this case, no state or their officials have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of a foreign state. I repeat once again: with such a structure of state power, only the people, the nation is responsible for the actions of their officials in power. Unless, of course, you consider Russia to be a monarchy in terms of the form of government - a kingdom, a kingdom, an empire, etc., where the sovereign ruler is not responsible and does not account for his actions to the people. I am a lawyer by education and profession and I know what I write. There is no manifestation of fascist views in my judgments. I do not put a certain nation on some grounds above other nations.

There is one good thing I have learnt today. It can be applied personal, profesional, national and international.
And that good thing is minding your own business. Things will fall well in line.

[Lambe Ndumble]

Surely sanctions will not solve problems, citizens who do not like war will feel direct consequences, for example are financial sanctions, usually all assets and finances of residents affected by sanctions will be blocked and this is very detrimental to them, sanctions will only make problems become more complicated.

[virasisog]

Surely sanctions will not solve problems, citizens who do not like war will feel direct consequences, for example are financial sanctions, usually all assets and finances of residents affected by sanctions will be blocked and this is very detrimental to them, sanctions will only make problems become more complicated.

Sanctions will not directly hit the target but they will only make innocent people suffer. Ordinary civilians are already suffering because of the war and it will be inhuman if they would let them suffer harder because of sanctions wherein they couldn't avoid. Sanctions could never stop the war or solve conflicts. It will only make the situation worse especially for ordinary people.

[Ozero]

Surely sanctions will not solve problems, citizens who do not like war will feel direct consequences, for example are financial sanctions, usually all assets and finances of residents affected by sanctions will be blocked and this is very detrimental to them, sanctions will only make problems become more complicated.

Sanctions will not directly hit the target but they will only make innocent people suffer. Ordinary civilians are already suffering because of the war and it will be inhuman if they would let them suffer harder because of sanctions wherein they couldn't avoid. Sanctions could never stop the war or solve conflicts. It will only make the situation worse especially for ordinary people.

It is interesting to observe how many are directly outraged that as a result of the sanctions applied against the occupying country - Russia, innocent people will suffer, including in Russia itself. Sanctions are not an option? Okay, suggest options. And then, while you are whining, every day for almost half a year the whole of Ukraine has been bombarded with half-ton bombs, which kill civilians and destroy absolutely everything in Ukraine indiscriminately.

Yes, it would be much better if we had an international contingent of rapid reaction forces that, within a few days after the start of aggression, would deliver a devastating retaliatory strike of such force that other potential aggressors would never again want to attack other states militarily. But even in this case, military personnel on both sides would still die and the civilian population would die. You can't do without it.

Sanctions are the minimum that citizens of the whole world must allow so that the echo of the war does not reach them. It is better to sacrifice money and material comforts than to voluntarily or unwittingly participate in hostilities. Those who are outraged by the sanctions proceed from the position that everything is fine for them so far and should be fine in the future. And if not? If the aggressor, after the destruction of one country, goes to your country? After all, Russia is already threatening to attack at least a dozen other states.

[Hispo]

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We cannot also forget what Russian oligarchs are highly target by these sanctions the western countries are impossing, they are getting their goods seized, for example.
Also, despite of the sanctions it seems that Russian Economy is not doing as bad as I thought it would, the value of their currency is actually holding the pressure and they apparently continue to find new clients for their energy in India and China.

In the short term, Europe are also suffering the effects of these sanctions because they have not been able to replace Russian gas yet...

[alikhania]

Sanctions have never been an effective way to resolve international disputes. The imposition of unilateral sanctions will not only fail to achieve the expected goals of the United States, but will also have a serious impact on the world economy and people's livelihood, leading to inflation. Sanctions are a double-edged sword, and both sides will suffer heavy losses.

[Vinaa77]

Sanctions have never been an effective way to resolve international disputes. The imposition of unilateral sanctions will not only fail to achieve the expected goals of the United States, but will also have a serious impact on the world economy and people's livelihood, leading to inflation. Sanctions are a double-edged sword, and both sides will suffer heavy losses.

Those who receive the sanctions are those who are guilty or who are considered guilty without having to harm other parties such as the community. This is not about sanctions for one party or two parties, but sanctions for those who are guilty and entitled to receive them or their actions that harm many people.

[be.open]

On the other hand, is the nation of Russians really not to blame for the fact that civilians are dying every day in Ukraine, their homes, schools, hospitals, etc. are being destroyed. This is not done by the nation of Russians? Maybe Ukraine is attacked by aliens? Or are they husbands, children, fathers and brothers of those "innocent" Russians? And about 300 thousand Russian soldiers and officers who are being killed in Ukraine, are they also innocent?
Something in Russia is not visible at all mass protests against the war. And according to polls, more than half of the "innocent" residents of Russia support Putin's actions to seize Ukraine. No, all citizens of Russia should bear responsibility for this.

I am glad that you openly express your fascist views here on the forum.

These are not fascist views, so don't label them. I proceed from the fact that, in terms of the form of government, the Russian Federation is a republic where the people, the nation, are vested with the highest power in the country. The people elect or hire senior government officials to a certain position and determine the scope of their rights and duties. These officials must act within and on the basis of the Constitution, its laws and regulations. Such a social structure is fixed, with some exceptions, in all civilized states. Therefore, the people, the nation is responsible for the actions of its officials, including if a half-witted senile with imperial ambitions turns out to be in power. For such cases, the people must provide for effective forms of dismissal or recall of such an official from office. Also in this case, no state or their officials have the right to interfere in the internal affairs of a foreign state. I repeat once again: with such a structure of state power, only the people, the nation is responsible for the actions of their officials in power. Unless, of course, you consider Russia to be a monarchy in terms of the form of government - a kingdom, a kingdom, an empire, etc., where the sovereign ruler is not responsible and does not account for his actions to the people. I am a lawyer by education and profession and I know what I write. There is no manifestation of fascist views in my judgments. I do not put a certain nation on some grounds above other nations.

As a highly educated person, you cannot fail to know that the idea of the collective responsibility of an entire people resonated with Adolf Hitler.

[Cryptock]

Sanctions have never been an effective way to resolve international disputes. The imposition of unilateral sanctions will not only fail to achieve the expected goals of the United States, but will also have a serious impact on the world economy and people's livelihood, leading to inflation. Sanctions are a double-edged sword, and both sides will suffer heavy losses.

the whole EU was after Russia to put sanctions - and see what has happened - their planning went in vein when they all failed.
Nothing worked out by USA and EU and USA is running to Saudi for oil and gas supply. Very funny

[Argoo]

Surely sanctions will not solve problems, citizens who do not like war will feel direct consequences, for example are financial sanctions, usually all assets and finances of residents affected by sanctions will be blocked and this is very detrimental to them, sanctions will only make problems become more complicated.

It's not enough to dislike war. Something else needs to be done so that military aggression does not come from one's own country and does not cause harm and suffering to the inhabitants of other states. Passive surveillance turns a person into an accomplice in crime and this should be remembered. And the accomplice must also be held accountable. And since Russia does not even see mass protests against the war, and more than half of its citizens approve of the military invasion of Ukraine and the bombing, as well as the constant shelling of its entire territory, there are no innocents in Russia.

Of course, sanctions alone will not solve the problem of Russian military aggression. But military and other assistance from civilized countries will help the Armed Forces of Ukraine to do this.

[DrBeer]

it is better to persuade the government to immediately stop the war.

This doesn't look like it will happen anytime soon, no one wants to stop this fight until the goal is achieved.
Russia getting bogged down in the war is a big win for the US government and look at how they pumped weapons into the Ukrainian military. They pretend that they are assisting Ukraine in defending the country but actually they want to prolong the war, the longer the war lasts, the weaker Russia becomes and that is their goal.

Everyone in the world wants this war to stop, but I still don't see any signal that this war will stop. Who will be the first to give in? or this war will stop when the US government wants to.

I will give you one simple example, from history, not fantasy and not propaganda. Remember there was such a country - the USSR. Far from ideal, but with a fairly self-sufficient (albeit backward) economy, a population, albeit not distant, but ideologically united. A country that was able to create a military-economic union of the Warsaw Pact. So, in 1979, the USSR launched a terrorist war in Afghanistan. And sanctions were imposed against the USSR. Moreover, if you read official sources, you will be surprised that they are noticeably weaker than today's sanctions against Russia. And you know what happened to the USSR? Literally in 10 years? I answer - the country ceased to exist ... The USSR had noticeably more than 10% of the world economy! They had nuclear weapons, the largest army in Europe, and the largest in the world. The country had 50%+ of the world's natural resources, and much more! I saw it all with my own eyes!
And in 2014 Russia starts the same thing. Russia, which has approximately 1.5% in the world economy (For example, this is an indicator of the GDP of Italy, or one state of California or New York )
True, the soft-bodied West decided at first not to impose sanctions, real sanctions that really create problems. Well, they expressed "concern" and forbade "selling bolts longer than 7 meters with a longitudinal thread"
But after February 24, 2022, though really somewhere from March-April, REAL sanctions began to be introduced. And now, after 3 months, the Russian economy has collapsed... In such a situation, Russia will not have 10 years, the fall will happen much faster!

[Cryptock]

Sanctions have never been an effective way to resolve international disputes. The imposition of unilateral sanctions will not only fail to achieve the expected goals of the United States, but will also have a serious impact on the world economy and people's livelihood, leading to inflation. Sanctions are a double-edged sword, and both sides will suffer heavy losses.

Those who receive the sanctions are those who are guilty or who are considered guilty without having to harm other parties such as the community. This is not about sanctions for one party or two parties, but sanctions for those who are guilty and entitled to receive them or their actions that harm many people.

Sanctions did bring any good to the world. Russia is a strong country and sanctions did not bring any good result.
I was not in favour of section and getting into other war. So its good to think of their own problem rather than indulging into others problem.