Germans are looking to firewood for energy as natural gas prices soar

[Betwrong]

I think this is only a temporary trend the firewood can't be always used for heating up the whole country. Firstly it's costly. It's bullky, transportation cost is high and it need huge logistics support system. So yes until there is war there could be gas issues and firewood might be used as an alternative, but it cant be a saviour. Ultimately we will gonbacknto gas..

Yes, we will. Ultimately, the government that decided to launch a full scale war in the middle of Europe in the 21st century will be defeated and overthrown, and the world will be able to trade with Russia without sponsoring state terrorism at the same time. And burning firewood for making your home warm will be history, just like hearing air alerts several times per day for months, living in the capital of a European state.

[Sithara007]

If only Germans start to take the nuclear energy pill sooner. Look at France, it took them the 1973 oil crisis where oil has risen nearly 300% to shallow the nuclear energy pill. Today, France derives about 70% of its electricity from nuclear energy. The amount of CO2 emission from fossil fuels for energy is another reason to consider nuclear energy.

Yes, the disposal of nuclear wastes, as well as other byproducts (contaminated water from the cooling nuclear reactor,...) is risky but heavily regulated. Compared to the dramatic climate change from CO2 emissions and the indebted to the oil cartel/fossil fuel control, I rather take my chance at nuclear energy. If more countries start to switch to nuclear energy, more money into the industry to push for more innovations, technologies and such. Really, this is our wake-up call now.

Nuclear energy is one of the greenest forms of energy available. I don't know why the Green Party always oppose nuclear power plants. Obviously disposal of nuclear waste is a serious concern. But now technology has advanced and safe disposal methods are available. And this is the reason why energy prices in France has remained stable so far this year, while those in other European countries have gone up by anywhere from 500% to 1,000%. Germans are the most stupid ones. Rather than building new nuclear powerplants, they closed down the existing ones.

[Mometaskers]

It's really ironic after they've been telling anyone to mind their emissions. This whole issue of having to reduce fuel imports from Russia really highlighted that the EU haven't really been that green, at least not as much as they advertise.

Domestically cultivating swathes of fast growing bamboo or paulownia tree for use in wood stoves during winter could help to regrow and regenerate firewood in a way that is sustainable. The worst scenario here is for old growth forests to be targeted. Those would take decades to replace and their greater size would lead to larger quantities of carbon emissions as the wood is burned.

Not sure if they can grow bamboo well there in Germany but maybe they can just, you know, burn their trash in incinerators for electricity and just use electric heaters at home? Certain waste products can be turned to fuel, like how coconut shells are sometimes turned into charcoal, maybe they can find something there to burn rather than throw away.

In the end it'll also boil down to proper design. I've seen illustrations of houses that uses water heated by the sun to warm to home, maybe they do that there. I mean, the sun still shines during winter, except if there's a blizzard.

[LoyceV]

maybe they can just, you know, burn their trash in incinerators for electricity

They do that already, it produces about 1% of the total electricity.

In the end it'll also boil down to proper design. I've seen illustrations of houses that uses water heated by the sun to warm to home, maybe they do that there. I mean, the sun still shines during winter, except if there's a blizzard.

Much easier: windows facing the sun. It helps, but it's not enough.

[cabron]

maybe they can just, you know, burn their trash in incinerators for electricity

They do that already, it produces about 1% of the total electricity.

In the end it'll also boil down to proper design. I've seen illustrations of houses that uses water heated by the sun to warm to home, maybe they do that there. I mean, the sun still shines during winter, except if there's a blizzard.

Much easier: windows facing the sun. It helps, but it's not enough.

Or they could just buy lots of red hot chilli peppers, store them to last up to spring. It warms the body without having to burn anything.  Just add 3 chilli peppers to a noddle soup and its good. Add peppers to every food thats to be eaten. Food is importanter than gas in the long run.

I have read about converting public libraries into a huge warm room where many of them stays there.

[stompix]

I don't see the point of looking for firewood unless they mean going to look for firewood themselves, not buying it, because firewood is expensive. Very expensive. And the ideal firewood for fireplaces, such as oak or walnut, is the most expensive.

Nobody uses oak or walnuts for heating, and msot have changed to pellet usage for their homes, and those are made out of willow and fake acacia trees, they grow damn fast, are easy to be cut and processed, and require the least energy, mix it wid leftovers from other wood industries and they are pretty effective.
We have such a pellet machine at our farm as the farm buildings have never been heated with gas ever, it's not the most effective in terms of caloric power per cubic meter, about 2/3 that of normal beech but still does its job. As for bamboo, no, it burns so quickly with such huge flames it's not a good idea, especially in closed spaces. Also, some species of willow grow pretty fast, not as fast as bamboo but with higher quality wood and caloric power.

so the Paris agreement is just a formality huh? they blame developing countries for still using fossil energy,, while they developed countries are starting to use fossil energy again and it doesn't matter.. very hypocritical.

Trees are not fossil energy, and to the surprise of many there is a thing called the carbon cycle:

Is it possible that firewood is the new bitcoin? How long before start ups roll out stablecoins pegged to the value of firewood commodities internationally?

Here you go again, we need another token...

[Moneyprism]

so the Paris agreement is just a formality huh? they blame developing countries for still using fossil energy,, while they developed countries are starting to use fossil energy again and it doesn't matter.. very hypocritical.

It's a household need as an emergency alternative, and I don't think the people there have any other choice.
I thought Germany was more skilled at tackling the energy crisis because historically they were pioneers in fighting climate change as I saw articles everywhere about their recycling technology. I see a lot of something against the previous assessment from this point on.

indeed they have made a mistake from the beginning to rely too much on energy from Russia.. we can only hope that this is only a temporary solution before they develop renewable energy for their energy..

[Agbe]

Its also been said that smaller diameter bamboo dries faster than larger diameter trees. Bamboo is a type of grass. Which could translate to it being more carbon neutral in contrast to most trees. Bamboo can also be used for many other applications aside from firewood. Which makes it a good investment even if the firewood application dries up, eventually.

The article mentions that burning wood releases toxic chemicals. Burning termite treated lumber will release arsenic fumes into the air. I'm not certain about naturally grown wood having toxic substances however.

Bamboo trees are a very good source of heat considering their short maturity period, less toxic nature, and ability to dry fast. But it doesn't have the ability to retain heat for a long time. One needs to have plenty of it to heat a house for a very long time which might increase the amount of fume and ashes produced.

Bunning itself releases toxic substances and it is very obvious that even natural grown woods are also toxic. Research showed that harmful substances suchbenzene and dioxins are by-products of natural wood burning.  

Already the country is experiencing drought situation. This too a big problem as water levels fall to below 40cm on Rhine river, the route of transporting fuel and other necessary commodities. This is supposed to fall even lower and the same have made the ships to reduce the loads. The heat of the water is very high and this leads to death of fishes and floating all around. The climate change is being experienced in a large scale. Now for the lack of required fuel people moving towards the firewood leads to deforestation. The same could have its effects on the environment over time.

Yes, Europe is in dire need of an alternate source of heat and any option would be accepted regardless of the effect on the environment. But it was the same EU that portrays itself as the champion of the environment. They claim to love the environment and that they can do anything to preserve it. They would quickly point accusing fingers at Bitcoin as one of the enemies of the environment. The question now is where is the love?

Yes bamboo wood dry faster and can burn well but bamboo stick or wood can not give the heat needed in those countries. Bamboo wood burns like fuel. It does not last, and it not produce the needed heat. So the best wood to be used at that side is hard wood that can burn last longer. Even the bamboo in my locality, there are two types. One produces gin while the other does not produce gin. And they are not in the same nature but probably (probability) in the same class. One of them like suger-cane which is also known in my community as Indian bamboo, and that kind of bamboo is not too good in burning for heat. But it will s very good temporal burning.


While the other bamboo which produced wine is called in my community "Ijaw Bamboo". And it can burn and produced heat more than Indian bamboo.


These are the two bamboo we have in my country.

I hope this issue will not lead to another colonialism in Africa. I know why I am saying it. Because finally they would come back to Africa to export these woods to feed the industries in Europe again.

[South Park]

If only Germans start to take the nuclear energy pill sooner. Look at France, it took them the 1973 oil crisis where oil has risen nearly 300% to shallow the nuclear energy pill. Today, France derives about 70% of its electricity from nuclear energy. The amount of CO2 emission from fossil fuels for energy is another reason to consider nuclear energy.

Yes, the disposal of nuclear wastes, as well as other byproducts (contaminated water from the cooling nuclear reactor,...) is risky but heavily regulated. Compared to the dramatic climate change from CO2 emissions and the indebted to the oil cartel/fossil fuel control, I rather take my chance at nuclear energy. If more countries start to switch to nuclear energy, more money into the industry to push for more innovations, technologies and such. Really, this is our wake-up call now.

Nuclear energy is one of the greenest forms of energy available. I don't know why the Green Party always oppose nuclear power plants. Obviously disposal of nuclear waste is a serious concern. But now technology has advanced and safe disposal methods are available. And this is the reason why energy prices in France has remained stable so far this year, while those in other European countries have gone up by anywhere from 500% to 1,000%. Germans are the most stupid ones. Rather than building new nuclear powerplants, they closed down the existing ones.

What happens is that the Fukushima nuclear disaster that happened 11 years ago at Japan reduced if not eliminated completely the possibility of using nuclear energy as our main source of energy during the short term, those that have proposed the use of nuclear energy have dedicated a great deal of their time to try to erase from memory what happened at Chernobyl, and they were relatively successful, but once the disaster happened at Fukushima many people lost the faith they had in nuclear energy and thought events like those were basically inevitable.

[Hydrogen]

Yes bamboo wood dry faster and can burn well but bamboo stick or wood can not give the heat needed in those countries. Bamboo wood burns like fuel. It does not last

Some have recommended selectively burning bamboo to transform it into charcoal, which will last longer. I have seen people burn wood inside a 55 gallon drum to make charcoal. Its an interesting process. Here is a video clip on youtube of charcoal being made via primitive means:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GzLvqCTvOQY

Adoption of bamboo as "european firewood reserve" could be a matter of scale. If its produced in high quantities, the price will decline and supply will become plentiful enough to perhaps offset fast burn time. The fast growth rate and ease of replenishment carries potential to offset observed negatives.

Paulownia is said to be one of the fastest growing trees in the world. That could be another option to target sustainable firewood markets. Which would not involve chopping down old growth forests. And would be easiest to develop and replenish with time being a factor.

[Sithara007]

What happens is that the Fukushima nuclear disaster that happened 11 years ago at Japan reduced if not eliminated completely the possibility of using nuclear energy as our main source of energy during the short term, those that have proposed the use of nuclear energy have dedicated a great deal of their time to try to erase from memory what happened at Chernobyl, and they were relatively successful, but once the disaster happened at Fukushima many people lost the faith they had in nuclear energy and thought events like those were basically inevitable.

And how many people actually died from the Fukushima disaster? There are only a handful cases of cancer that is directly attributed to the disaster, and more than 10 years have passed since the incident. Even in Chernobyl, the number of deaths stayed in double digits. Around 100 individuals developed leukemia, which was later blamed on the radio-active release from the nuclear plant. Now compare that to the 400,000 deaths resulting from coal-fired powerplants in India alone. And in both Fukushima and Chernobyl, the root cause of the disaster was mismanagement by the authorities.

[Poker Player]

Nobody uses oak or walnuts for heating, and msot have changed to pellet usage for their homes, and those are made out of willow and fake acacia trees, they grow damn fast, are easy to be cut and processed, and require the least energy, mix it wid leftovers from other wood industries and they are pretty effective.

Nobody will use that wood in Germany which if I remember correctly is where you live, or wherever you live. But I please don't deny what I can see with my own eyes.

Also, are you talking about using that wood for small metal stoves or the large stone fireplaces that are built in houses?

For the latter, oak and walnut wood are ideal:

Oak firewood is absolutely one of the best types of firewood you can burn. 

[be.open]

Nobody uses oak or walnuts for heating, and msot have changed to pellet usage for their homes, and those are made out of willow and fake acacia trees, they grow damn fast, are easy to be cut and processed, and require the least energy, mix it wid leftovers from other wood industries and they are pretty effective.

Nobody will use that wood in Germany which if I remember correctly is where you live, or wherever you live. But I please don't deny what I can see with my own eyes.

Also, are you talking about using that wood for small metal stoves or the large stone fireplaces that are built in houses?

For the latter, oak and walnut wood are ideal:

Oak firewood is absolutely one of the best types of firewood you can burn.  

In Russia, stove heating is quite widespread in rural areas, as the main or backup source of heat. Birch is usually used as firewood in my region and occasionally, about once a month, they heat the stove with aspen to clean the chimney and reduce the risk of fire. Oak and walnut are almost never used as firewood, because these tree species are not common in my region. The main rule for stove heating is that firewood must be dry, ideally you need to store firewood for the next year, and heat the stove with last year's stocks. Damp wood produces little heat and a lot of smoke.

[Lucius]

I will only ask one very simple question, why is the entire energy situation viewed only through the prism of Germany? The EU has a total of 27 member states, and each of them will try to adapt to the energy crisis in their own way, and as always, some will be more successful than others.

As for firewood, I can say that in my country this type of heating is still very popular, especially considering gas prices. 1 cubic meter of mixed firewood (oak, beech, ash, wild cherry, hornbeam...) costs on average about 50 EUR, and an average household needs about 15 meters of wood for an average winter. We should add the costs of cutting, as well as the splitting of wood, which is about 10 EUR per meter.

All in all, the cost of heating for one house would be less than 1000 EUR, although this method of heating has disadvantages compared to gas. Instead of a thermostat that needs to be turned on or off, wood needs to be bought, cut, split and stored, and furnaces and chimneys cleaned, which many people don't want.

[LoyceV]

why is the entire energy situation viewed only through the prism of Germany?

Probably because Germany is the biggest economy within EU, and largely relied on Russian gas.

All in all, the cost of heating for one house would be less than 1000 EUR

Natural gas used to cost less than that for most homes. Using 15 m³ of fire wood is terribly inefficient and heavily polluting. That's okay in remote areas, but not in cities where far too many houses stand close together.

[zasad@]

Nobody uses oak or walnuts for heating, and msot have changed to pellet usage for their homes, and those are made out of willow and fake acacia trees, they grow damn fast, are easy to be cut and processed, and require the least energy, mix it wid leftovers from other wood industries and they are pretty effective.

Nobody will use that wood in Germany which if I remember correctly is where you live, or wherever you live. But I please don't deny what I can see with my own eyes.

Also, are you talking about using that wood for small metal stoves or the large stone fireplaces that are built in houses?

For the latter, oak and walnut wood are ideal:

Oak firewood is absolutely one of the best types of firewood you can burn. 

Oak firewood has a big minus. Oak takes a very long time to dry. And as a rule, firewood is sold immediately after the tree has been cut down.
Therefore, you will have problems lighting the stove, or you will have to chop wood into smaller chips and use lighter fluids. Pine, birch, aspen dries very quickly.

[stompix]

Nobody will use that wood in Germany which if I remember correctly is where you live, or wherever you live. But I please don't deny what I can see with my own eyes.
Also, are you talking about using that wood for small metal stoves or the large stone fireplaces that are built in houses?
Oak firewood is absolutely one of the best types of firewood you can burn.   (https://burlybeaver.com/oak-firewood/)

I'm talking about this:
https://www.buderus.de/de/pelletkessel
And if you don't trust me then probably you would believe a company with billions of revenue from selling just heating systems and every single type of pellet burning for boilers central heating and this is how those pellets are harvested.

As for oak and walnut nobody uses those because despite having a high caloric input they are worth more as furniture, rather than burning a cubic meter of walnut you make a table out of it and buy 20mc3 of beech with that price   And if you think about leftovers, those are made into, pellets .

Oh btw, I can smell where that confusion is coming, pellets, wood briquettes, same stuff for me.

I will only ask one very simple question, why is the entire energy situation viewed only through the prism of Germany? The EU has a total of 27 member states, and each of them will try to adapt to the energy crisis in their own way, and as always, some will be more successful than others.

Cause if Germany would cut gas consumption tomorrow there wouldn't be a crisis anymore. If Bulgaria would do the same it would not matter as they burn about 20 times less. If tomorrow Coinfield is hacked nobody will care, if Binance's coins are gone, we're going to go through a lot of pain...

[jaberwock]

These are the two bamboo we have in my country.

I hope this issue will not lead to another colonialism in Africa. I know why I am saying it. Because finally they would come back to Africa to export these woods to feed the industries in Europe again.

On the second pic, the one that is smaller where there are people climbing on it. I think it looks like a coconut tree? But maybe it was called a bamboo on your country. That's true that it can produce a wine. That was the livelihood of the people on our place. It's tree has a lot of use cases other than extracting a wine on it.

You can also make a broomstick out of it and the wood can also be use to build a house and furniture but of course it works great as a firewood. It can last longer than a normal/real bamboo wood because it's more thicker. Looking for alternatives is fine but they shouldn't abused it because trees are also important.

[coolcoinz]

One solution is a wood gas burner. The furnace starts up as a normal wood burner and when it heats up begins to produce wood gas that can be sent back to the burner or to a generator and power up the house. It depends on how big your burner is and how much gas can it produce. Burners are expensive, but when you start getting 10k EUR bills like that one posted earlier in this thread buying one starts to make a lot of sense. For 10k EUR you can get a full installation that will generate enough wood gas for you to have hot water, a warm house and get you at least 5KW of constant power.

You can even run cars on wood gas. The conversion doesn't look pretty but it works.
https://www.lowtechmagazine.com/2010/01/wood-gas-cars.html

[fiulpro]

Firewood?
Sustainable?
How about: *polluting*, *extremely unhealthy* the reason firewood is not used that much anymore is because of the problems it comes with. Wooden gas burner is not a solution, think about the environment as well, how many wild trees would be cut down just because people will try and sell it illegally once the prices sore. It's not an alternative, is not an option, we all need to learn about environment friendly options and at the end make things better not just for us but for our future generations as well.