Germans are looking to firewood for energy as natural gas prices soar

[Sithara007]

Firewood?
Sustainable?
How about: *polluting*, *extremely unhealthy* the reason firewood is not used that much anymore is because of the problems it comes with. Wooden gas burner is not a solution, think about the environment as well, how many wild trees would be cut down just because people will try and sell it illegally once the prices sore. It's not an alternative, is not an option, we all need to learn about environment friendly options and at the end make things better not just for us but for our future generations as well.

The suggestion to burn firewood is a retrograde step. We moved from firewood to natural gas many decades ago. It is retarded to even think about going back. Firewood is neither environmentally friendly, nor healthy. It produces much more soot and ash, when compared to natural gas. I am not saying that natural gas is the safest option that is available. But at least with natural gas, the pollution levels are much lower when compared to firewood and coal. People come up with all sort of crazy suggestions when there is a shortage of natural gas. This talk will just die down when gas becomes more abundant again.

[Poker Player]

Oak firewood has a big minus. Oak takes a very long time to dry.

All you have to do is wait for it to dry.

And as a rule, firewood is sold immediately after the tree has been cut down.

That will be where you live.

Therefore, you will have problems lighting the stove, or you will have to chop wood into smaller chips and use lighter fluids.

No because I never put wood that is not dry in the fireplace.

Pine, birch, aspen dries very quickly.

Pine and aspen are garbage for fireplaces the first for being resinous and the second for being soft.

[pooya87]

A couple of years ago if you told someone that in the year 2022 the Europeans would be arguing about the types of wood they should burn to keep warm in the winter while their media talked about consuming expired foods with mold and shit, they would have placed you in the loony bin

[zasad@]

Oak firewood has a big minus. Oak takes a very long time to dry.

All you have to do is wait for it to dry.

And as a rule, firewood is sold immediately after the tree has been cut down.

That will be where you live.

Therefore, you will have problems lighting the stove, or you will have to chop wood into smaller chips and use lighter fluids.

No because I never put wood that is not dry in the fireplace.

Pine, birch, aspen dries very quickly.

Pine and aspen are garbage for fireplaces the first for being resinous and the second for being soft.

Do you know how long oak dries to burn well in the oven?
My problems with ignition disappeared only in the second year.
This problem can be solved by ordering firewood in advance and letting it dry, but as a rule, firewood is bought when it runs out And sellers will not bring dry firewood.

You need to separate 2 things: this is a fireplace in the house and a stove for a bath.
I have a gas heated house and have not used a fireplace for many years, but if there are problems with gas or electricity, then a fireplace can be used.

And for a Russian bath, it doesn’t matter what kind of firewood to use, I won’t notice the difference. But oak firewood is consumed less than aspen or birch.

[bakasabo]

Firewood as a solution to high gas price? Ridiculous. Worse decision ever. What next, go to caves and prey hunting? How long do they plan to replace gas with firewood? Few years and there will be no trees on the earth.

Oak firewood has a big minus. Oak takes a very long time to dry.

Much bigger minus is that it takes ages for tree to grow...

I have a gas heated house and have not used a fireplace for many years, but if there are problems with gas or electricity, then a fireplace can be used.

I have a fireplace also, but its purpose is to heat biggest room only. I know that is individual, but one fireplace usually dont heat whole house, but having multiple fireplaces at home is an expensive investment during construction period, it limits useful space at home. And keeping fire creates minor inconveniences. It is not pull the handle and go to sleep.

[Lucius]

Natural gas used to cost less than that for most homes. Using 15 m³ of fire wood is terribly inefficient and heavily polluting. That's okay in remote areas, but not in cities where far too many houses stand close together.

It is no longer just a question of the price of gas, but the question of whether there will be enough of it, given that the EU began to face decreasing supplies from alternative sources where it mostly relied on the US, which according to some news can no longer keep up the same pace as before. In addition, Norway also announced that it had to reduce gas deliveries due to regular maintenance.

Firewood is certainly not an ideal option, but at the moment it is something that can provide additional insurance in the event of a gas shortage. In my area, more or less everyone has gas heating, but they also have wood/pallet stoves, which we will use if necessary.

Cause if Germany would cut gas consumption tomorrow there wouldn't be a crisis anymore. If Bulgaria would do the same it would not matter as they burn about 20 times less. If tomorrow Coinfield is hacked nobody will care, if Binance's coins are gone, we're going to go through a lot of pain...

If they are the only problem, why don't we ask them nicely to play penguin this winter and make sacrifices for everyone else? Joking aside, I have already said several times that all these stories about freezing are overemphasized and are part of Russian propaganda, which in this way tries to influence the even greater destabilization of the EU.

Meanwhile, in Hungary, the Russian company Rosatom is starting to build two new nuclear reactors, because Orban has no problems with the war in Ukraine.

[Wind_FURY]

Germany shouldn't have shut down their Nuclear power plants. Tin-foil hats on, but sometimes I believe that the governments around Europe are infiltrated by "its enemies" and cause their leaders to make very stupid policies. Because why did Germany allow themselves to be dependent on Russian gas? Plus Germany's leaders sanctioned Russia, and they complain because Russia won't give them the Natural Gas that they need?

The Black Swan will not be a Black Swan, because we already know what will come "next". I'm too afraid to say "it", but countries like New Zealand, South Africa, and Iceland will be the safest destinations if "it" will happen.

[erep]

Firewood as a solution to high gas price? Ridiculous. Worse decision ever. What next, go to caves and prey hunting? How long do they plan to replace gas with firewood? Few years and there will be no trees on the earth.

As long as Russia still covers gas supplies to Germany, then there is an alternative way for people to prepare firewood for sufficient supply for the winter, the demand for wood is increasing because the government has subsidized it, but will it reduce natural greening if the demand for firewood increases?

I have a fireplace also, but its purpose is to heat biggest room only. I know that is individual, but one fireplace usually dont heat whole house, but having multiple fireplaces at home is an expensive investment during construction period, it limits useful space at home. And keeping fire creates minor inconveniences. It is not pull the handle and go to sleep.

If the fireplace uses gas for only limited use while the gas is still filled, it will eventually switch to a pallet wood fireplace, but it is unhygienic for indoor use, creating dust that is bad for breathing.

[DrBeer]

Dear residents of Europe!
1. Do not believe Russian propaganda and its corrupt mongrels in your countries. Ukraine is an economic terrorist and a war criminal, Russia, for many years, from year to year, with hysteria and joy (for Russia, to do an abomination to a neighbor is one of the key goals of life) before the heating season promised that we "will definitely freeze this year without Russian gas !quickly agree to all our conditions!". We sent them and send them, and no one froze, except ... for some of the inhabitants of Russia, where the level of gasification of households is less than 50% This is a fact. And they collect brushwood and fallen trees from ancient times to the present day ... And they will collect, now for many hundreds of years, because. Russia is a technologically backward country, and cannot properly provide its citizens with normal living conditions.
2. Yes, this winter you will be forced to go through some procedure of "removing the pathogenic virus" Russian gas "that hit your economy. Yes, and you will probably have to raise the question - who and how led to the fact that your economy was essentially sold to the management of the country terrorists in order to control politicians, corrupt politicians who are ready to exchange you and your countries for handouts from the Kremlin Nazis, but in 2023 you will be able, by slightly reducing gas consumption, to completely leave Russia's gas needle.
Believe me - it's not as scary as Russian propaganda draws! They always lie and always bully. For example, in Ukraine they have been spitting on them for a long time and ignoring all their "scarecrows"

[Wind_FURY]

Dear residents of Europe!

1. Do not believe Russian propaganda and its corrupt mongrels in your countries. Ukraine is an economic terrorist and a war criminal, Russia, for many years, from year to year, with hysteria and joy (for Russia, to do an abomination to a neighbor is one of the key goals of life) before the heating season promised that we "will definitely freeze this year without Russian gas !quickly agree to all our conditions!". We sent them and send them, and no one froze, except ... for some of the inhabitants of Russia, where the level of gasification of households is less than 50% This is a fact. And they collect brushwood and fallen trees from ancient times to the present day ... And they will collect, now for many hundreds of years, because. Russia is a technologically backward country, and cannot properly provide its citizens with normal living conditions.

2. Yes, this winter you will be forced to go through some procedure of "removing the pathogenic virus" Russian gas "that hit your economy. Yes, and you will probably have to raise the question - who and how led to the fact that your economy was essentially sold to the management of the country terrorists in order to control politicians, corrupt politicians who are ready to exchange you and your countries for handouts from the Kremlin Nazis, but in 2023 you will be able, by slightly reducing gas consumption, to completely leave Russia's gas needle.

Believe me - it's not as scary as Russian propaganda draws! They always lie and always bully. For example, in Ukraine they have been spitting on them for a long time and ignoring all their "scarecrows"

Is there truly a Russian propaganda? Can you post, and quote examples with links? Thanks. I'm rather curious how those propagandas read like.

Plus it would be very easy to say to go through winter with limited, or no heating and energy if you are not there to experience it. There are real people, FAMILIES, who would suffer, or even also die. I know it was wrong of Putin to order the attack on Ukraine, I'm not saying ignore it. But it's very hard for those ordinary people to go through the coming winter.

[LoyceV]

Is there truly a Russian propaganda?

Of course there is, just like there's Western propaganda. One of the first things EU did, was ban Russian state-owned media.
It's safe to assume propaganda and censorship are always happening, the very tricky part is knowing what's real or not.

[Smack That Ace]

Firewood?
Sustainable?
How about: *polluting*, *extremely unhealthy* the reason firewood is not used that much anymore is because of the problems it comes with. Wooden gas burner is not a solution, think about the environment as well, how many wild trees would be cut down just because people will try and sell it illegally once the prices sore. It's not an alternative, is not an option, we all need to learn about environment friendly options and at the end make things better not just for us but for our future generations as well.

The suggestion to burn firewood is a retrograde step. We moved from firewood to natural gas many decades ago. It is retarded to even think about going back. Firewood is neither environmentally friendly, nor healthy. It produces much more soot and ash, when compared to natural gas. I am not saying that natural gas is the safest option that is available. But at least with natural gas, the pollution levels are much lower when compared to firewood and coal. People come up with all sort of crazy suggestions when there is a shortage of natural gas. This talk will just die down when gas becomes more abundant again.

This is really crazy solution, it shouldn't be done. Using coal in addition to creating ash and dust that pollutes the air also has a lot of impact on the environment. We all know that deforestation will cause environmental hazards, and natural disasters such as droughts, floods, earthquakes are all caused by deforestation. It is difficult to find an alternative to Russian gas in the short term, but the German and EU governments should reconsider the use of firewood instead. It is a step backward for humanity.

[be.open]

Is there truly a Russian propaganda?

Of course there is, just like there's Western propaganda. One of the first things EU did, was ban Russian state-owned media.
It's safe to assume propaganda and censorship are always happening, the very tricky part is knowing what's real or not.

The reality is that Nord Stream 1 is closed for an indefinite period (due to identified malfunctions on the only working Siemens turbine, which are not clear how to fix due to the imposed sanctions), gas from Russia to Europe now flows only through Ukraine and through the Turkish Stream.

It is also realistic that the EU's total gas demand at the end of 2021 was about 550 billion cubic meters per year, with its own production of about 210 billion cubic meters per year (340 billion cubic meters per year the EU imported in total, including about 150 billion cubic meters per year from Russia ). The total capacity of underground gas storage facilities in the European Union is 70 billion cubic meters per year. Everyone has the right to draw their own conclusions.

Plus it would be very easy to say to go through winter with limited, or no heating and energy if you are not there to experience it. There are real people, FAMILIES, who would suffer, or even also die. I know it was wrong of Putin to order the attack on Ukraine, I'm not saying ignore it. But it's very hard for those ordinary people to go through the coming winter.

People will not freeze, but the entire energy-intensive European industry is fucked up.

[zasad@]

Firewood?
Sustainable?
How about: *polluting*, *extremely unhealthy* the reason firewood is not used that much anymore is because of the problems it comes with. Wooden gas burner is not a solution, think about the environment as well, how many wild trees would be cut down just because people will try and sell it illegally once the prices sore. It's not an alternative, is not an option, we all need to learn about environment friendly options and at the end make things better not just for us but for our future generations as well.

The suggestion to burn firewood is a retrograde step. We moved from firewood to natural gas many decades ago. It is retarded to even think about going back. Firewood is neither environmentally friendly, nor healthy. It produces much more soot and ash, when compared to natural gas. I am not saying that natural gas is the safest option that is available. But at least with natural gas, the pollution levels are much lower when compared to firewood and coal. People come up with all sort of crazy suggestions when there is a shortage of natural gas. This talk will just die down when gas becomes more abundant again.

This is really crazy solution, it shouldn't be done. Using coal in addition to creating ash and dust that pollutes the air also has a lot of impact on the environment. We all know that deforestation will cause environmental hazards, and natural disasters such as droughts, floods, earthquakes are all caused by deforestation. It is difficult to find an alternative to Russian gas in the short term, but the German and EU governments should reconsider the use of firewood instead. It is a step backward for humanity.

Do you know how much forest is burned in fires every year?
https://www.iii.org/fact-statistic/facts-statistics-wildfires
https://www.epa.gov/climate-indicators/climate-change-indicators-wildfires
Any alternative with supplies will cost a lot more due to logistical problems. Therefore, a more likely scenario is the purchase of Russian gas in other countries, and according to documents, it will not come from Russia.

[be.open]

Any alternative with supplies will cost a lot more due to logistical problems. Therefore, a more likely scenario is the purchase of Russian gas in other countries, and according to documents, it will not come from Russia.

I don't think so - because of the same logistical problems. In order to resell Russian gas to the European Union in a democratic package, the intermediary must have some kind of surplus, and no one has such surplus now. Hungary recently agreed with Gazprom on additional gas supplies in the amount of several million cubic meters per day, which will come through the Turkish Stream - and this is perhaps all that the European Union can count on. If Hungary wants to share.

[blue_hurricanger]

If only Germans start to take the nuclear energy pill sooner.

They did that, see this image on Wikipedia (hotlinking the image from Wiki doesn't work).
Then, after the Fukushima nuclear disaster, they decided to get rid of them quicker. And coal too, because of the climate. Natural gas consumption on the other hand went up, because of the lower emissions and higher flexibility (needed to deal with the increasing share of wind and solar). And that's in a nutshell how we ended up where we are.

But even if they'd do use nuclear power for heating, using electricity for resistor heating is quite wasteful. You'd need a lot more power plants.

Yes, electricity is ill-suit to power the boiler, low efficiency to be used for heating in the winter. If we have more nuclear power, we can reduce the amount of reliance on natural gas. In turn, allow the oil-power boiler to take place. Yes, it was a thing. There is a downsize from oil-power boiler vs gas-power boiler but still a considerable replacement especially the biodiesel mix.
On the world scale, if more nuclear power plants are being built, it'll reduce the number of fossil fuels like coal, oil, and LNG to generate electricity. More available for those resources, supply and demand kick in, and cheaper prices as well.

Japan's Fukushima disaster was the worst. Not just Germany but a lot of countries around that time halted their plan to build new nuclear power plants. To be fair, Japan stood on the Pacific Ring of Fire, they should've known better when built the Fukushima nuclear power plant on their coast.

Nuclear energy is one of the greenest forms of energy available. I don't know why the Green Party always oppose nuclear power plants. Obviously disposal of nuclear waste is a serious concern. But now technology has advanced and safe disposal methods are available. And this is the reason why energy prices in France has remained stable so far this year, while those in other European countries have gone up by anywhere from 500% to 1,000%. Germans are the most stupid ones. Rather than building new nuclear powerplants, they closed down the existing ones.

The Green Party is just a front for renewable energy and oil cartels to hide behind it and spread their agenda. All because of money and profit. Pure greed, I tell you. Thing is changing. In COP26 or 2021 United Nations Climate Change Conference where they sang a different tune, moved nuclear energy to the 'green list', and stop discouraging countries from seeking it.

[bakasabo]

Firewood as a solution to high gas price? Ridiculous. Worse decision ever. What next, go to caves and prey hunting? How long do they plan to replace gas with firewood? Few years and there will be no trees on the earth.

As long as Russia still covers gas supplies to Germany, then there is an alternative way for people to prepare firewood for sufficient supply for the winter, the demand for wood is increasing because the government has subsidized it, but will it reduce natural greening if the demand for firewood increases?

I have a fireplace also, but its purpose is to heat biggest room only. I know that is individual, but one fireplace usually dont heat whole house, but having multiple fireplaces at home is an expensive investment during construction period, it limits useful space at home. And keeping fire creates minor inconveniences. It is not pull the handle and go to sleep.

If the fireplace uses gas for only limited use while the gas is still filled, it will eventually switch to a pallet wood fireplace, but it is unhygienic for indoor use, creating dust that is bad for breathing.

Firewood is not an alternative. How long does it takes for a tree to grow on a hight of 3-4 store house ? 50 years? It takes several days to burn all those logs. And as you say - dust is created after burning logs, and the amount of trees decreases each day, to clean air. That is a a path to nowhere.

[Lucius]

Firewood is not an alternative. How long does it takes for a tree to grow on a hight of 3-4 store house ? 50 years? It takes several days to burn all those logs. And as you say - dust is created after burning logs, and the amount of trees decreases each day, to clean air. That is a a path to nowhere.

The alternative is anything that can help you warm up during the winter, or to cook something to eat if you have no other source of heat. There is a type of tree that grows very fast and I know it has spread a lot in Europe in the last 10-15 years - and it takes about 3-4 years to grow a tree for cultivation. The ash produced by burning wood is a good fertilizer, and it can also be used as a protection against snails if it is sprinkled around the plant. Today, it is also possible to buy smoke filters that significantly reduce pollution - so everything is not as black as many think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulownia

Cultivation for firewood
It is planted at a distance of about 2×3 m. After 3-4 years, we get a tree with a diameter of about 20 cm and 0.25 m2. A household that annually consumes about 15 m2 of wood can plant a plantation with 200-250 trees on an area of 1000-1500 m2. After 3 years, he can start logging and cover all heating costs for the next 30 years. This is because after cutting, a new tree sprouts again from the existing root.

[Mometaskers]

maybe they can just, you know, burn their trash in incinerators for electricity

They do that already, it produces about 1% of the total electricity.

In the end it'll also boil down to proper design. I've seen illustrations of houses that uses water heated by the sun to warm to home, maybe they do that there. I mean, the sun still shines during winter, except if there's a blizzard.

Much easier: windows facing the sun. It helps, but it's not enough.

Wow, and even the incinerators are not enough. And yes properly designed windows, design the house for maximum sun absorption and heat retention. Unfortunately I don't think those living in flats have much options. I have family in Italy and they complain about the cold and are not running the heater continuously to save on gas (this was even before prices skyrocket). I can imagine it'll be much frigid in Germany. Hope they sort that all out before winter.

Or they could just buy lots of red hot chilli peppers, store them to last up to spring. It warms the body without having to burn anything.  Just add 3 chilli peppers to a noddle soup and its good. Add peppers to every food thats to be eaten. Food is importanter than gas in the long run.

I don't know if you're serious about the chili part. That just trick your body into thinking you're hot. That's why Thais love them, they sweat and then it evaporates and cool them down. But yes, food is definitely important in helping keep the body warm. Maybe they can adjust the heating to be lower than they're used to and just put on an extra layer or two of clothing.

[beerlover]

The alternative is anything that can help you warm up during the winter, or to cook something to eat if you have no other source of heat. There is a type of tree that grows very fast and I know it has spread a lot in Europe in the last 10-15 years - and it takes about 3-4 years to grow a tree for cultivation. The ash produced by burning wood is a good fertilizer, and it can also be used as a protection against snails if it is sprinkled around the plant. Today, it is also possible to buy smoke filters that significantly reduce pollution - so everything is not as black as many think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paulownia

The interesting is that people are not realizing "why" firewood is used right now as alternative and why it is a good thing. The real deal is that Germans realized long time ago Russians can't be trusted and Putin is the evil person in the world today, history always had those evil people, maybe Putin is not as bad as Hitler, but certainly the worst for the world today.

So instead of gas, oil, petrol whatever that you can get from Russia, they would use firewood, but not forever neither. Even though as you mentioned it is not as bad as people imagine, it is still not a forever thing, Europe is trying to build self-energy sustainable ways and when that happens, firewood will slowly fade out again.