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[mitchr4]

I knew that I shouldn't trust Newcastle. It was good when they scored and when Liverpool equalised (I had Newcastle not to lose and over 2,5). But then Liverpool quickly scored another goal and that was it. Now it all comes down to which country will win the final in handball Euro. If Denmark wins the title, I will win. If Germany wins the title, Kokkee44 wins. I actually like my chances here as Denmark is a favorite, but handball is a sport that is so hard to predict. I hope that Denmark will make use of the fact they are playing in front of their own fans.

Looking at the H2H history, Denmark has been dominant and won against Germany several times. Playing in a Euro final isn't new for them either, even though they haven't won the title yet. I think you're in a good position right now hopefully Denmark will finally bring home the trophy this time!

As for me, winning again in round 12 was crucial to move up in the league. I was honestly doubtful at first since my opponent had the lead in some earlier questions, but luckily I managed to come back.

[Rikafip]

Well it just had to be this way now didn't it, Liverpool turns up at the wrong time and now wants to play fancy, Newcastle scored that first goal I leave and comeback its 2-1 like WTF just can't catch a break I'm so used to it by now anyway. With that said here's the complimentary GG for Rikafip good luck on your next round.

And yeah I know we still have questions left but to me the writing is on the wall already so don't bother say there's still questions left.

Nah man, not gonna fall for this trick. I am still hedging strong! 

[Harkorede]

I would agree with @mv1986 that I was surprised that the question was voided, because normally if Frka was literally active and in the of grading the sheet while the game was on, he would have graded it against Novak before Mussetti had to withdraw, but then overturn eventually, I guess.

About who wins it, it could be argue either way, what was the scoreline 2-0 lead by Mussetti, and it was Djokovic who won ? so technically he was won it in just 2 sets, whether he was leading or not, might not matter... On the flipside the question could Djokovic have won the match while down 2-0 in 4 sets or less if the match didn't end abruptly, of course not... So in the end, I'd say the void was the fairest way to settle it... Yet another learning curve, there are always blind spots which can't possibly think of all before hand.

[slaman29]

Answering four No in H2H tennis was a good choice, as it secured my win for this round, although there was still one different answer, but that's no longer important.

Good luck for you in the next round.

I usually go a lot of No in tennis but somehow I felt well, this was a special round and things were gonna be different boy I thought wrong.

Congrats to you and your win again. I'm feeling deflated.

Its going to be a very interesting weekend as there are 3 different answers left between me and Jinetics1111. I am hedging like there's no tomorrow so I'll either win this round, or make a decent amount out of the loss.

Does that mean if you end up winning a lot this season in BSFL fights you would actually be poorer IRL?

[cryptofrka]

Congratulations @hosemary to an honest point in the tennis question. It wasn't your decision, but I would like to add a few sentences.

If I were to bet against a normal person, let that be at any event, and Musetti takes a 2-0 lead, that normal person and I would settle the bet immediately without any further questions asked and without any further time passing by. Nobody in the world can tell me that two normal people would not settle because the person losing would suddenly argue "if Musetti now faces injury, I can still win because Djokovic made it in less than 4 sets". That is by far the biggest brain stretch I have heard here within the BSFL community. I have read a few now, but this is definitely the most impressive mental gymnastics exercise I have seen here.

You would never do that when you bet with a friend, nor would you do it in a stadium with a stranger. Since this is a closed Bitcointalk community, I thought some reasonable sense might reign over wild sophistical brain stretches. Sophistically, saying that Djokovic made it in less than 4 sets is correct. But guys, I respect you all here, but not for being sophists (even if you are one). This was a sports question and everybody, really everybody understood it. That's preposterous! As if we all here were sitting in our basements, trying to sort out how we can still win that question by legally dissecting it when sportingly, no options were left! It is not like Musetti led 1-0. He led 2-0. It was done. Everyone who followed the result here, accepted it right in that moment. Nobody was hoping for a miraculous exit for the better. I am dead sure about that. This was turned into absurdity a la Wittgenstein:

"The meaning of a sentence lies in how it's used". (replace "sentence" by "question").

If that is how we play BSFL, really...

But hold on.

Now it is argued that bookmakers would void it. True, and I am all cool with that if that is what everyone wants to be applied here. Then it was said that rephrasing the question to a -1.5 handicap would have possibly led to different grading. But why? Bookmakers would still void it (literally all bookmakers to the advantage of the player). Do we go with voiding, or only when it makes sense for some players (a la Wittgenstein)?

If it turns out that in an H2H there is a "delicate" decision (which it is actually not...), void the entire question. Even then it is unfair, but at least you avoid these tipping points where within that question one very decision makes winners and losers. Can still happen in the overall round, but seems to be the less ridiculous way to go.

Since I am convinced that the vast majority of people here operates on common sense grained with respect for the community, I bet that if this had been put up for voting, the majority would have said: Those with "No, Djokovic does not make it", won that answer. If that ever happens again and I am the beneficiary, I will clearly state I will not accept that point.

Everyone else behaving like Zeno of Elea or some Austrian philosopher when it comes to grading sports questions within our closed BSFL community here is quite strange.

Not sure if you read the entire thread but I already laid out my reasoning earlier so I’ll try not to repeat myself too much.

Your argument from a sports/common sense perspective is fair — and I’ve already said that from a sports perspective grading this as 'No' is the only option that makes sense. I don’t think anyone involved failed to understand that point - and suggesting otherwise is just putting oil on the fire. The issue here was never about misunderstanding tennis or reality.
The problem is simply that the question was phrased in a way that left room for interpretation and once that happens, any grading decision will feel 'absurd' to one side or the other.
I also explained what the intended meaning of the question was — unfortunately, intention doesn’t override wording after the fact. That’s on us, and yes, it’s a mistake. Not one that we make often though.

Voiding the entire question is always an option but that also creates unfairness — just distributed differently. Any choice here inevitably creates winners and losers and there is no solution that fully avoids that once the question is already live.
I respect the appeal to common sense and community spirit — that’s what BSFL is built on. But once we start retroactively re-interpreting questions purely based on how 'everyone obviously understood it', we introduce a different kind of arbitrariness that will come back to bite us later.

This is a forum project, not a bookmaker with a legal department and pre-written edge-case rules. Out of ~70 participants reading the questions, nobody raised the hypothetical scenario beforehand - just showing how borderline it is.
This wasn’t about legal gymnastics or philosophy contests. It was about dealing with a poorly phrased edge case in a consistent way.

You’re free to disagree with the decision — that’s completely fair — but it wasn’t made out of bad faith, ignorance, or a desire to game the outcome. Sucks to be on the losing side of it and we are sorry it happened.

_____________________________________

We will slightly change some rules in the OP, but however I phrase it it doesn't look right. Will do it soon though.

[Jinetics1111]

Well it just had to be this way now didn't it, Liverpool turns up at the wrong time and now wants to play fancy, Newcastle scored that first goal I leave and comeback its 2-1 like WTF just can't catch a break I'm so used to it by now anyway. With that said here's the complimentary GG for Rikafip good luck on your next round.

And yeah I know we still have questions left but to me the writing is on the wall already so don't bother say there's still questions left.

Nah man, not gonna fall for this trick. I am still hedging strong!  

No trick bro just based on current results, I know you know I'm the janitor for Division 1 currently so believe me when I tell you I smelt the shit already hence why I GG's you. If it goes the other way meh that would be amazing no doubt but I've just had bad luck all season and just know when the rounds about to falter.

[leea-1334]

For people who say womens tennis is weird, well, Djokovic is only 3.2x to beat Alcaraz wtf

Because Alcaraz can be less clinical than Sinner, Alcaraz often get more sloppy than Sinner does, I'd have said Sinner had a better chance to defeat Djokovic than Alcaraz, but the only thing is that Alcaraz is better player when it comes to playing for longer duration.. Bookies learnt their lesson with how the semifinals went.

Congratulations @hosemary to an honest point in the tennis question. It wasn't your decision, but I would like to add a few sentences.

If I were to bet against a normal person, let that be at any event, and Musetti takes a 2-0 lead, that normal person and I would settle the bet immediately without any further questions asked and without any further time passing by. Nobody in the world can tell me that two normal people would not settle because the person losing would suddenly argue "if Musetti now faces injury, I can still win because Djokovic made it in less than 4 sets". That is by far the biggest brain stretch I have heard here within the BSFL community. I have read a few now, but this is definitely the most impressive mental gymnastics exercise I have seen here.

I did not follow this properly but after now going back in time and reading what happened and now your post I have to agree with you.

Firstly,,, we all understood what this question meant, regardless the way it was phrased and secondly,,, as you said, everyone if we had been following this question at 2-0 we also would mark our own column as red,,, that is the right thing to do

But I think also BSFL is always about learning,,, And preventing such confusions and we had many already and every learning is something different,,, we should accept and move on.

[arallmuus]

I knew that I shouldn't trust Newcastle. It was good when they scored and when Liverpool equalised (I had Newcastle not to lose and over 2,5). But then Liverpool quickly scored another goal and that was it.

The only reason I picked Liverpool under 2.5 goals are based on my trust to Newcastle. I was expecting Liverpool to win but sloppy 1-0 win but yeah it was over on the first half

AFAIK, it's always a bad round for us YOU

Yep, that word should be changed into me instead. Im currently 0-2 against you with the last 2 questions to go

The condition for me to catch up against you will be Denmark to win ( its currently halftime ) and City to win without Haaland scoring and so far he hasnt score yet. Its a close game for now because Tottenham just scored their 1st goal so there are tons of shitty stuff that could happen in this game and snatch my chances away....

[Jinetics1111]

I told you Rikafip that you won this round that's one thing that I'm sure of this season when the round is over , it's all good congrats and good luck on your next round. I knew it was over after certain questions didn't go my way it's the same thing every round.

[Harkorede]

From waiting for Haaland to score or not to Tottenham not to lose real fast, that's some crazy twist is guess mafia wasn't going to be safe anyways so here go, half a mafia, half a citizen are the LMS victims...

[Trofo]

From waiting for Haaland to score or not to Tottenham not to lose real fast, that's some crazy twist is guess mafia wasn't going to be safe anyways so here go, half a mafia, half a citizen are the LMS victims...

I am still pissed about our draw, in the end it is "just" 6:6 but could have been more so easy.
Really hate it when my duels get resolved that quickly.

You have top of the LMS at least to keep you happy, watch out coming to get you there.

[buwaytress]

I feel ya, mv1986, as I said earlier Cro2 sometimes, as organisers, have to choose what is just. And what is just is seldom what is fair. I know myself the sort of ambiguities and unforeseen situations that can sometimes happen, and no matter what decision you take, someone will be hard done by. Fortunately, we have enough camaraderie in this group of degenerates to allow for such things, and when we all sit down for a beer, we can rib Cro2 about it.

Now we both sit together, staring down at relegation...

On a bright note, I finally notch a win. I only regret it came against CLS63, whose bid for the title will undoubtedly be dealt a huge blow. I need to be taking points off people directly above me... not people at the summit.

[slackovic]

Thank you Denmark for giving me this victory against Kokee44! Kokee44, good game but I guess that lady luck was on my side.

My team was really down after losing the last couple of rounds and we really needed this win! I can't wait for the table to be posted to see in what place my team is sitting now. I really hope that I can avoid relegation zone.

[Trofo]

Division 1

•POS•	••Username••••	•PLD•	•W•	•D•	•L•	•SF•	•SA•	•SD•	•PTS•
1	vd309	12	9	2	1	56	43	13	29
2	Harkorede	12	6	5	1	59	51	8	23
3	cls63	12	7	2	3	49	42	7	23
4	Trofo	12	6	3	3	53	44	9	21
5	hosemary	12	6	2	4	48	41	7	20
6	Slissy	12	6	2	4	56	51	5	20
7	darxiaomi	12	5	3	4	45	42	3	18
8	strongkored	12	5	3	4	49	47	2	18
9	Renato297	12	4	4	4	48	44	4	16
10	cryptofrka	12	5	1	6	45	49	-4	16
11	Saint-loup	12	4	3	5	54	52	2	15
12	Rikafip	12	4	3	5	50	50	0	15
13	slaman29	12	4	2	6	47	49	-2	14
14	jayce	12	3	5	4	44	51	-7	13
15	leea-1334	12	4	1	7	41	51	-10	12
16	buwaytress	12	3	2	7	42	52	-10	11
17	mv1986	12	3	2	7	41	52	-11	11
18	Jinetics1111	12	0	3	9	39	55	-16	3

Division 2

•POS•	••Username••••	•PLD•	•W•	•D•	•L•	•SF•	•SA•	•SD•	•PTS•
1	ulven	12	8	1	3	50	36	14	25
2	el che	12	8	1	3	43	33	10	24
3	VashaUdacha777	12	7	2	3	48	40	8	23
4	Spack17	12	7	1	4	45	41	4	22
5	Igebotz	12	6	2	4	47	43	4	20
6	Hhampuz	12	6	1	5	42	33	9	19
7	Ozymandias_DZ	12	5	3	4	42	38	4	18
8	ralle14	12	6	0	6	44	48	-4	18
9	hakan2217	12	5	3	4	38	43	-5	18
10	Dittoup	12	4	4	4	43	40	3	16
11	ILuckyGuyI	12	5	1	6	45	48	-3	16
12	LTU_btc	12	5	0	7	46	46	0	15
13	B1g4udge	12	4	2	6	44	48	-4	14
14	MAAManda	12	5	1	6	37	46	-9	14
15	yassinmanai	12	3	3	6	41	45	-4	12
16	notblox1	12	2	4	6	40	43	-3	10
17	arallmuus	12	2	4	6	35	45	-10	10
18	Koal-84	12	2	3	7	41	55	-14	9

Division 3

•POS•	••Username••••	•PLD•	•W•	•D•	•L•	•SF•	•SA•	•SD•	•PTS•
1	goodpunt	12	8	0	4	46	34	12	24
2	famososMuertos	13	7	2	4	46	41	5	23
3	vivekdkhyani	12	6	3	3	41	31	10	21
4	Da_Silva	12	6	3	3	51	42	9	21
5	paco92x	12	7	0	5	41	32	9	21
6	LFC_Bitcoin	12	6	3	3	43	36	7	21
7	mitchr4	13	6	3	4	49	47	2	21
8	HomieAllDay	12	6	2	4	37	33	4	19
9	Kokee44	12	5	3	4	43	43	0	18
10	slackovic	13	5	3	5	47	48	-1	18
11	jeremypwr	13	6	2	5	41	43	-2	18
12	russeras	12	5	2	5	46	46	0	17
13	SATWAT	12	5	1	6	38	36	2	16
14	imarios	13	4	3	6	47	44	3	15
15	chi20	12	3	6	3	42	45	-3	15
16	Dump3er	12	4	3	5	39	43	-4	14
17	entebah	12	3	3	6	38	40	-2	12
18	BitcoinHunt3r	17	0	0	17	0	51	-51	0

Division 4

•POS•	••Username••••	•PLD•	•W•	•D•	•L•	•SF•	•SA•	•SD•	•PTS•
1	Smartvirus	12	9	2	1	44	30	14	29
2	ajanwalker	13	9	1	3	48	32	16	28
3	Ochan_yazo_tochant	12	8	1	3	49	30	19	25
4	Bitcoin Smith	13	7	4	2	45	30	15	25
5	execijutiere	14	7	4	3	40	33	7	25
6	welovebit	12	8	0	4	39	28	11	24
7	Nheer	15	7	3	5	48	41	7	22
8	General_Bitcoin	13	6	4	3	44	38	6	22
9	cygan	13	6	3	4	43	35	8	21
10	BABY SHOES	14	7	1	6	40	34	6	21
11	un_rank	13	6	4	3	40	33	7	20
12	Note3	12	6	2	4	41	34	7	19
13	ovcijisir	12	6	0	6	36	30	6	18
14	Woodie	13	6	1	6	37	34	3	18
15	Hyphen(-)	12	5	2	5	37	34	3	16
16	MarangoZ	17	0	2	15	0	45	-45	0
17	NavidArt	17	0	2	15	0	45	-45	0
18	Rashlyowl	17	0	2	15	0	45	-45	0

W - Games Won, L - Games Lost, D - Games Drawn
POS - League Position, SD - Score Difference, SF - Score For
SA - Score Against, PLD - Games Played, PTS - Points Earned




Round 12 - Results

_______________________________	_______________________________	_______________________________	_______________________________
Division 1 Slissy 4-5 Renato297 Rikafip 6-5 Jinetics1111 buwaytress 6-4 cls63 hosemary 5-3 mv1986 leea-1334 5-5 Saint-loup strongkored 6-5 slaman29 vd309 4-7 jayce cryptofrka 4-3 darxiaomi Trofo 6-6 Harkorede	Division 2 Koal-84 5-4 Ozymandias_DZ VashaUdacha777 3-2 el che ILuckyGuyI 4-4 yassinmanai notblox1 4-5 ulven ralle14 4-2 hakan2217 Hhampuz 4-6 Dittoup arallmuus 4-5 MAAManda LTU_btc 5-6 Igebotz Spack17 4-6 B1g4udge	Division 3 famososMuertos 5-4 goodpunt russeras 2-5 entebah mitchr4 6-4 jeremypwr chi20 5-5 HomieAllDay Kokee44 3-4 slackovic paco92x 3-4 Da_Silva vivekdkhyani 5-5 imarios SATWAT 5-3 Dump3er BitcoinHunt3r 0-3 LFC_Bitcoin	Division 4 execijutiere 1-7 Nheer cygan 3-5 General_Bitcoin MarangoZ 0-3 un_rank Rashlyowl 0-3 Ochan_yazo_tochant NavidArt 0-3 Smartvirus Woodie 2-4 Note3 BABY SHOES 5-7 Hyphen(-) Bitcoin Smith 3-4 welovebit ajanwalker 2-4 ovcijisir

[cryptofrka]

Well, quite a bittersweet end to the BSFL round. An important win in the league but a loss in LMS - and the end of the road there for me.
With 4 players left and all of them surely rebuying until the end, it makes more sense to throw in the towel. This will be my first season of quitting LMS.

______________________________________

The spreadsheet has been updated, recheck your results and let us know if something's incorrect.

It's time to announce the freebet winners and the LMS losers.

Freebet winners:

Division 1 - Strongkored (40$ freebet)
Division 2 - Igebotz (30$ freebet)
Division 3 - vivekdhyani1 (20$ freebet)
Division 4 - Nheer (10$ freebet)

Don't forget to open the sportsbook part of the platform at least once, otherwise the freebet cannot be credited.

2 players are out of LMS, 4 players still remain.
Harkorede extending his lead to 3 points - well done man.

LMS losers:

VashaUdacha777
cryptofrka

In LMS we play for the initial prize of 7.5 mBTC + all the rebuys, rebuy is currently 1 mBTC. If you want to rebuy you need to do it before the deadline for Round 13.
You simply send 1 mBTC to the escrow wallet (bc1qmkyla8h7sj7pyafsh06ru4nnpse5ltuk37lyh4re6m9geqnekhsqehrzhk). If you do rebuy, please DM Trofo with the TXID. Current LMS reward is 13.5 mBTC.

There have been some friendly games as well:

Friendlies   
Heyshbosh - un_rank   4-3
pina_pino - Ochan_yazo_tochant   4-5
LFC_Bitcoin - Smartvirus   3-5

I feel ya, mv1986, as I said earlier Cro2 sometimes, as organisers, have to choose what is just. And what is just is seldom what is fair. I know myself the sort of ambiguities and unforeseen situations that can sometimes happen, and no matter what decision you take, someone will be hard done by. Fortunately, we have enough camaraderie in this group of degenerates to allow for such things, and when we all sit down for a beer, we can rib Cro2 about it.

Now we both sit together, staring down at relegation...

On a bright note, I finally notch a win. I only regret it came against CLS63, whose bid for the title will undoubtedly be dealt a huge blow. I need to be taking points off people directly above me... not people at the summit.

Happy to see that he didn't lose because of that question - would have been 4-3 instead of 5-3 for hosemary. That makes it a little bit better I guess.

[CLS63]

On a bright note, I finally notch a win. I only regret it came against CLS63, whose bid for the title will undoubtedly be dealt a huge blow. I need to be taking points off people directly above me... not people at the summit.

I guess that you waited for playing against me to make the correct predictions. This was quite bad for my target to finish in the 2nd place. I still can't believe that Manchester City lost points after getting 2-0 ahead. Spurs played the second half really amazingly.

Thankfully I had Semenyo in fantasy. His scoring a goal was a little bit of a consolation for me.

[Slissy]

So vd309 was the lucky one today in LMS😂 Damn City i had them on my bets today.. Leading 2-0 and then 2-2 wtf city.. They can forget about winning PL this season. and everything else!

After a bad (unlucky) round, my team has to pull together in my next match. I can't keep losing like this.. 2 losses in a row is already too much😂 I am now on 6th place but its only 3 points up to 2nd place.. Come on team Slissy!!!!

[Harkorede]

On a bright note, I finally notch a win. I only regret it came against CLS63, whose bid for the title will undoubtedly be dealt a huge blow. I need to be taking points off people directly above me... not people at the summit.

I guess that you waited for playing against me to make the correct predictions. This was quite bad for my target to finish in the 2nd place. I still can't believe that Manchester City lost points after getting 2-0 ahead. Spurs played the second half really amazingly.

Thankfully I had Semenyo in fantasy. His scoring a goal was a little bit of a consolation for me.

I think Man City were even lucky to walk away with a point with how dominant Tottenham were in that second half, the match could have easily ended 4-2, or 3-2...

Even with Guehi, they still lack that defensive compatibility or should I call it chemistry, it's as though each defender are just doing their stuff individually rather than having a task that contributes to their defensive structure as a team, it wasn't as though Man City were superb in the first half either, it was though they were gifted of their two goals but being unable to defend those goals is an absolute nightmare.

EDIT:

by the way wtf is Team Jayce smoking ?

[Koal-84]

Finally, three points again after a long time, even if it was very close at 5:4. Now I'm back at the bottom of Division 2, but I still have hope that I might be lucky enough to stay in the division.

[Trofo]

Even with Guehi, they still lack that defensive compatibility or should I call it chemistry, it's as though each defender are just doing their stuff individually rather than having a task that contributes to their defensive structure as a team, it wasn't as though Man City were superb in the first half either, it was though they were gifted of their two goals but being unable to defend those goals is an absolute nightmare.

To be fair, I probably wouldn't let first goal from Tottenham stand, Solanke kicked Guehi before he kicked the ball. I can't believe they were checking for offside and not for that. They should have at least called ref to look at it. Before that goal it was firmly in City hands after it Spurs started to believe and played much better.