Publicly held Trump trials - ongoing

[BADecker]

Now the banks are starting to assert their testimony. Since they have accepted Trump in the past, they can't let their good names be tarnished by the New York AG destroying the Trump that they upheld. They don't want go down with Trump, so they are starting to act on his behalf.

...

Deutsche Bank, which loaned hundreds of millions of dollars to Trump for properties in Miami, Chicago and Washington, cut his stated net worth in 2011 and 2012 from about $4.2 billion to $2.3 billion, according to internal bank credit memos. The same documents indicated the bank approved the loans anyway because it expected them to generate a profit based on Trump's history of successful developments and other criteria.

Trump, who denies wrongdoing and claims the case is politically motivated, is calling to the stand this week four current and former Deutsche Bank employees — including the family's former private banker Rosemary Vrablic — as part of his defense case, seeking to flip the script on the state's version of events. -Bloomberg

The testimony completely undermines AG James' premise, that Trump defrauded the German bank.
...

First of all, this demolishes you previous theory (a joke really) that "you can put whatever value you want" - the bankers say now that they new the value was wrong, so there is a "right value" that does not depend on your imagination.

The banks are saying that they knew the valuation was wrong and accepted giving credits just on other considerations.  The bank executives will have to answer to their own shareholders on why they are ok with fraudsters.  The bank executives know perfectly well that they may be also open to a massive class action - effectively means that any shareholder of the bank can now sue them because they knowingly accepted a miss-valuation.

I know you are clueless about this, but the bank needs, for compliance, have assets against that type of credit or declare it as loss, possible loss, etc... If I am allowed an educated guess, these bankers are likely to have faked that in their accounts. There may even be jail time for some individuals for it.

Trump has to answer to the people of New York, that is irrespective of the banks dealings.

But let's look at proper news:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/trump-fraud-trial/trump-never-risked-breaching-loan-covenants-banker-suggests-105213855?id=103642561

New York Attorney General Letitia James alleges that had Trump accurately reported the value of his assets, he could have risked defaulting on a loan covenant that required he maintain a net worth of $2.5 billion.

So the moment he signed the credit, he was already in breach of the covenants. The punishment for this is lower... but there's punishment.

I am also thinking that if the judge says this is all right, then it will be all right for any future use. Good luck to the banking system, but particularly to all shareholders of the banks.

Since you would rather have other people tell you what your property is valued at - as they do Trump - and since you would rather accept their valuation as your own rather than your own valuation, I now value the private property of your thinking as less than worthless in the world.

However, I want to thank you for continuing your valueless posts. It gives us something to laugh at. After all, we need humor in our lives. Besides, your posts help to keep Bitcointalk.org alive.

We're waiting for your next piece of humor. I mean, you said it - your acceptance of other people valuing your property like they are doing Trump's property. So, come on. Give us some more humor.

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[Hispo]

I just read this morning that Trump's efforts to appeal one of his gag orders in the New York case has failed.
Ironically, I am pretty sure this failure will translate as even more poll wins for him in the primary race. It is what it is.

I am not even sure why Trump tried to appeal that gag order through his lawyers, because I assume we will eventually violate it anyways and he is very confident nobody would dare to throw him in prison because if the things he says about his current cases.
Even if he is wrong and he gets indeed thrown in jail, that will only help him to get even more percentage in the polls, not like he needs more, anyways. He has got the primary race in the bag.

[paxmao]

Now the banks are starting to assert their testimony. Since they have accepted Trump in the past, they can't let their good names be tarnished by the New York AG destroying the Trump that they upheld. They don't want go down with Trump, so they are starting to act on his behalf.

...

Deutsche Bank, which loaned hundreds of millions of dollars to Trump for properties in Miami, Chicago and Washington, cut his stated net worth in 2011 and 2012 from about $4.2 billion to $2.3 billion, according to internal bank credit memos. The same documents indicated the bank approved the loans anyway because it expected them to generate a profit based on Trump's history of successful developments and other criteria.

Trump, who denies wrongdoing and claims the case is politically motivated, is calling to the stand this week four current and former Deutsche Bank employees — including the family's former private banker Rosemary Vrablic — as part of his defense case, seeking to flip the script on the state's version of events. -Bloomberg

The testimony completely undermines AG James' premise, that Trump defrauded the German bank.
...

First of all, this demolishes you previous theory (a joke really) that "you can put whatever value you want" - the bankers say now that they new the value was wrong, so there is a "right value" that does not depend on your imagination.

The banks are saying that they knew the valuation was wrong and accepted giving credits just on other considerations.  The bank executives will have to answer to their own shareholders on why they are ok with fraudsters.  The bank executives know perfectly well that they may be also open to a massive class action - effectively means that any shareholder of the bank can now sue them because they knowingly accepted a miss-valuation.

I know you are clueless about this, but the bank needs, for compliance, have assets against that type of credit or declare it as loss, possible loss, etc... If I am allowed an educated guess, these bankers are likely to have faked that in their accounts. There may even be jail time for some individuals for it.

Trump has to answer to the people of New York, that is irrespective of the banks dealings.

But let's look at proper news:
https://abcnews.go.com/US/live-updates/trump-fraud-trial/trump-never-risked-breaching-loan-covenants-banker-suggests-105213855?id=103642561

New York Attorney General Letitia James alleges that had Trump accurately reported the value of his assets, he could have risked defaulting on a loan covenant that required he maintain a net worth of $2.5 billion.

So the moment he signed the credit, he was already in breach of the covenants. The punishment for this is lower... but there's punishment.

I am also thinking that if the judge says this is all right, then it will be all right for any future use. Good luck to the banking system, but particularly to all shareholders of the banks.

Since you would rather have other people tell you what your property is valued at - as they do Trump - and since you would rather accept their valuation as your own rather than your own valuation, I now value the private property of your thinking as less than worthless in the world.

However, I want to thank you for continuing your valueless posts. It gives us something to laugh at. After all, we need humor in our lives. Besides, your posts help to keep Bitcointalk.org alive.

We're waiting for your next piece of humor. I mean, you said it - your acceptance of other people valuing your property like they are doing Trump's property. So, come on. Give us some more humor.

You have a big problem. You have your idea of how the world should work according to you. But you do not seem to understand the difference between your wishful thinking and real life. You live in an illusion in which you can live your philosophy - and impose it on others - as a standalone ignorant in a world that owes you some inherent respects for your rights. I have bad news for you: The world cares shit about you and what you think. Modern states are organised how they are for many reason, but the key takeaway for you is that you do not get to change them to suit your views.

Your ideals are ridiculous e.g. "the right to contract" -  the right to contract does not exist in nature, it requires laws and the ability to enforce it, else a contract is as good as a cowshit.

For example - and I know you are an absolute ignorant on this, so just fucking google it - you do not get to put any valuation on an asset. There are strict rules on what the value is because if not people would be committing fraud after fraud. Your own fucking source is telling you that the bankers knew the values were wrong.

I also know your are also an absolute ignorant regarding micro-economics - so just fucking google this - "Offer and demand" - the price is formed by a point in which demand an offer meet. Not at whatever price the owner decides if nobody would buy at that price.

I have also figured out by now that you are also an ignorant on regards to history, law and in general any aspect of civilization. Just fucking go to Amazon and buy a few books.

You do not make the laws, you live under the laws made in a country with a system that is designed to solve problems without resorting to civil war, massive battles and breaking societies plus defending you capricious ass from the real bad people out there that would kill a stupid like you just for a minute of fun.

Said system includes, for example, the limits to a President authority, the illegality of arming mobs to assault the institutions, the authority of those that enforce the law,...If you want to change the basis of the US democracy and impose your tyranny, is not about winning the elections (which Trump could not even do the first time by popular vote BTW), is about a new civil war or, alternatively, get a supermajority willing to do so.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-constitution/#:~:text=An%20amendment%20may%20be%20proposed,in%20each%20State%20for%20ratification.

Just fucking bother to read the Constitution of your fucking country and try to understand what your vote means and what it does not mean what a president can and cannot do.

Either all that or you are an agent of China selling fentanyl to underaged Americans and polluting this forum with links to fake information.

[BADecker]

~

Since you would rather have other people tell you what your property is valued at - as they do Trump - and since you would rather accept their valuation as your own rather than your own valuation, I now value the private property of your thinking as less than worthless in the world.

However, I want to thank you for continuing your valueless posts. It gives us something to laugh at. After all, we need humor in our lives. Besides, your posts help to keep Bitcointalk.org alive.

We're waiting for your next piece of humor. I mean, you said it - your acceptance of other people valuing your property like they are doing Trump's property. So, come on. Give us some more humor.

You have a big problem. You have your idea of how the world should work according to you. But you do not seem to understand the difference between your wishful thinking and real life. You live in an illusion in which you can live your philosophy - and impose it on others - as a standalone ignorant in a world that owes you some inherent respects for your rights. I have bad news for you: The world cares shit about you and what you think. Modern states are organised how they are for many reason, but the key takeaway for you is that you do not get to change them to suit your views. - Relax, man (or are you a woman?). You don't have to get all hyper. I know that waking up can be difficult. But relax. You will wake up a lot easier that way.

God controls the world. He does it according to his love for people, even though they fight Him or try to ignore Him. So, it doesn't matter what the world thinks. What matters is their relationship with God.

Your ideals are ridiculous e.g. "the right to contract" -  the right to contract does not exist in nature, it requires laws and the ability to enforce it, else a contract is as good as a cowshit. - What does nature have to do with it. The right to contract is something for beings who can reason like people can. The animals live by instinct (ultra-complex programming).

The right to contract is legally written differently in different countries. I have shown you the way it is written in the US - https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-10/clause-1/contract-clause. Search on it. It has been adjudicated to mean that people have the right to contract with others.

If there wasn't any contract law at all, natural contract law would still exist among the people. Then, it would be the parties to the contract who would enforce their contracts. Having it written in law simply makes it easier. Or didn't you know that it was people who made the laws and Constitutions, and had to agree or not agree to them?

For example - and I know you are an absolute ignorant on this, so just fucking google it - you do not get to put any valuation on an asset. There are strict rules on what the value is because if not people would be committing fraud after fraud. Your own fucking source is telling you that the bankers knew the values were wrong. - Don't you own any property? If you do, you will find all kinds of people who will place different values on your property. If they all decide to value it the same, it's because they have a simple agreement (contract) with other people to value it that way. But the value that counts is the value you place on it, because you are the owner. Do you really like being overruled on your valuation of your own property?

I also know your are also an absolute ignorant regarding micro-economics - so just fucking google this - "Offer and demand" - the price is formed by a point in which demand an offer meet. Not at whatever price the owner decides if nobody would buy at that price. - Suppose you wanted to sell a piece of your property to others. If nobody will buy it, it's because you placed too big of a price on it. Take your pick. Revalue it at a lower price, or keep it. It's called the free market.

If you and the people of your country don't have freedom to value things they trade between themselves, there is very little for you guys to live for. If government figures out the price of everything that is bought and sold in your land, then what's the use of trying to get ahead in life? It's all been decided for you, already.

I have also figured out by now that you are also an ignorant on regards to history, law and in general any aspect of civilization. Just fucking go to Amazon and buy a few books. - Do you even see what I mean? The libraries are full of books that are free to use... at least in the US. All you can think of is spending money at some company to buy what you could use freely at the library. Think, man (or are you a woman?).

You do not make the laws, you live under the laws made in a country with a system that is designed to solve problems without resorting to civil war, massive battles and breaking societies plus defending you capricious ass from the real bad people out there that would kill a stupid like you just for a minute of fun. - Don't you realize that people make the laws?

In the US, we have the 6th and 7th Amendments. Both of them allow a trial by a 12-person jury of ones peers. If the jury strikes down any law with regard to the current case, that law doesn't apply to the defendant. The jury rules. This is one of the BIG reasons why America is as free as it is. A little 12-person jury has rule over any laws that might have anything to do with a court case.

Said system includes, for example, the limits to a President authority, the illegality of arming mobs to assault the institutions, the authority of those that enforce the law,...If you want to change the basis of the US democracy and impose your tyranny, is not about winning the elections (which Trump could not even do the first time by popular vote BTW), is about a new civil war or, alternatively, get a supermajority willing to do so.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-constitution/#:~:text=An%20amendment%20may%20be%20proposed,in%20each%20State%20for%20ratification. - The thing that you (and many people) don't realize is that the Constitution doesn't have authority over individual people unless they contract with government. The Constitution exists to protect the people from Government Officials. It applies to government, and government officials who try to use it against the people, have the jury to tangle with, as I have written above.

Just fucking bother to read the Constitution of your fucking country and try to understand what your vote means and what it does not mean what a president can and cannot do. - I don't need to read the Constitution. It applies to government people. But if they step out of line and harm me or other non-government individuals, I might use the Constitution to put government people in their place. Because that is what the Constitution is for.

Either all that or you are an agent of China selling fentanyl to underaged Americans and polluting this forum with links to fake information.

If you are a person in the UK, you should really find out the basics of UK law. It is similar to that of the US in many ways. It's even better in some ways, because if it is properly used, it bypasses a lot of thinking that one would have to do to put down evil government officials. One of the best places you can go to find out about both, US law and also UK law is Karl Lentz, here - https://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da.

In the UK, and several other countries that use UK-style law, consider Kings Bench court. It formerly was Queens Bench until the Queen died. It's the court for the common people, if they use it right.

[paxmao]

Back on topic, with an UK newspaper just for you that seem to like the UK so much:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-gag-order-trial-latest-news-b2456671.html

Trump suffers double court blow over Jan 6 cases: Latest
...
A long-awaited federal appeals court ruling on Friday determined that Mr Trump can be held civilly liable for inciting the riots at the US Capitol on 6 January, 2021 in the wake of his 2020 loss.

The ruling, which followed three lawsuits from law enforcement officers and members of Congress whose lives were threatened that day, finds that the former president cannot use presidential “immunity” as a shield from that litigation.
...

~

Since you would rather have other people tell you what your property is valued at - as they do Trump - and since you would rather accept their valuation as your own rather than your own valuation, I now value the private property of your thinking as less than worthless in the world.

However, I want to thank you for continuing your valueless posts. It gives us something to laugh at. After all, we need humor in our lives. Besides, your posts help to keep Bitcointalk.org alive.

We're waiting for your next piece of humor. I mean, you said it - your acceptance of other people valuing your property like they are doing Trump's property. So, come on. Give us some more humor.

You have a big problem. You have your idea of how the world should work according to you. But you do not seem to understand the difference between your wishful thinking and real life. You live in an illusion in which you can live your philosophy - and impose it on others - as a standalone ignorant in a world that owes you some inherent respects for your rights. I have bad news for you: The world cares shit about you and what you think. Modern states are organised how they are for many reason, but the key takeaway for you is that you do not get to change them to suit your views. - Relax, man (or are you a woman?). You don't have to get all hyper. I know that waking up can be difficult. But relax. You will wake up a lot easier that way.

God controls the world. He does it according to his love for people, even though they fight Him or try to ignore Him. So, it doesn't matter what the world thinks. What matters is their relationship with God.

Your ideals are ridiculous e.g. "the right to contract" -  the right to contract does not exist in nature, it requires laws and the ability to enforce it, else a contract is as good as a cowshit. - What does nature have to do with it. The right to contract is something for beings who can reason like people can. The animals live by instinct (ultra-complex programming).

The right to contract is legally written differently in different countries. I have shown you the way it is written in the US - https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution-conan/article-1/section-10/clause-1/contract-clause. Search on it. It has been adjudicated to mean that people have the right to contract with others.

If there wasn't any contract law at all, natural contract law would still exist among the people. Then, it would be the parties to the contract who would enforce their contracts. Having it written in law simply makes it easier. Or didn't you know that it was people who made the laws and Constitutions, and had to agree or not agree to them?

For example - and I know you are an absolute ignorant on this, so just fucking google it - you do not get to put any valuation on an asset. There are strict rules on what the value is because if not people would be committing fraud after fraud. Your own fucking source is telling you that the bankers knew the values were wrong. - Don't you own any property? If you do, you will find all kinds of people who will place different values on your property. If they all decide to value it the same, it's because they have a simple agreement (contract) with other people to value it that way. But the value that counts is the value you place on it, because you are the owner. Do you really like being overruled on your valuation of your own property?

I also know your are also an absolute ignorant regarding micro-economics - so just fucking google this - "Offer and demand" - the price is formed by a point in which demand an offer meet. Not at whatever price the owner decides if nobody would buy at that price. - Suppose you wanted to sell a piece of your property to others. If nobody will buy it, it's because you placed too big of a price on it. Take your pick. Revalue it at a lower price, or keep it. It's called the free market.

If you and the people of your country don't have freedom to value things they trade between themselves, there is very little for you guys to live for. If government figures out the price of everything that is bought and sold in your land, then what's the use of trying to get ahead in life? It's all been decided for you, already.

I have also figured out by now that you are also an ignorant on regards to history, law and in general any aspect of civilization. Just fucking go to Amazon and buy a few books. - Do you even see what I mean? The libraries are full of books that are free to use... at least in the US. All you can think of is spending money at some company to buy what you could use freely at the library. Think, man (or are you a woman?).

You do not make the laws, you live under the laws made in a country with a system that is designed to solve problems without resorting to civil war, massive battles and breaking societies plus defending you capricious ass from the real bad people out there that would kill a stupid like you just for a minute of fun. - Don't you realize that people make the laws?

In the US, we have the 6th and 7th Amendments. Both of them allow a trial by a 12-person jury of ones peers. If the jury strikes down any law with regard to the current case, that law doesn't apply to the defendant. The jury rules. This is one of the BIG reasons why America is as free as it is. A little 12-person jury has rule over any laws that might have anything to do with a court case.

Said system includes, for example, the limits to a President authority, the illegality of arming mobs to assault the institutions, the authority of those that enforce the law,...If you want to change the basis of the US democracy and impose your tyranny, is not about winning the elections (which Trump could not even do the first time by popular vote BTW), is about a new civil war or, alternatively, get a supermajority willing to do so.
https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/our-government/the-constitution/#:~:text=An%20amendment%20may%20be%20proposed,in%20each%20State%20for%20ratification. - The thing that you (and many people) don't realize is that the Constitution doesn't have authority over individual people unless they contract with government. The Constitution exists to protect the people from Government Officials. It applies to government, and government officials who try to use it against the people, have the jury to tangle with, as I have written above.

Just fucking bother to read the Constitution of your fucking country and try to understand what your vote means and what it does not mean what a president can and cannot do. - I don't need to read the Constitution. It applies to government people. But if they step out of line and harm me or other non-government individuals, I might use the Constitution to put government people in their place. Because that is what the Constitution is for.

Either all that or you are an agent of China selling fentanyl to underaged Americans and polluting this forum with links to fake information.

If you are a person in the UK, you should really find out the basics of UK law. It is similar to that of the US in many ways. It's even better in some ways, because if it is properly used, it bypasses a lot of thinking that one would have to do to put down evil government officials. One of the best places you can go to find out about both, US law and also UK law is Karl Lentz, here - https://www.youtube.com/user/765736/videos?view=0&live_view=500&flow=grid&sort=da.

In the UK, and several other countries that use UK-style law, consider Kings Bench court. It formerly was Queens Bench until the Queen died. It's the court for the common people, if they use it right.

Again, I am not a person man or woman, I do not live anywhere and as far as you are concern I exist only in a cloud server in an unmapped island in the South Pacific. I know you are eager to judge people for their origin - it prevents your from having to think.

I do not need to watch a video on UK law, nor on the Napoleonic code, the Hammurabi code or the Constitución de La Argentina. I can read and I do it when I want to learn something. Try it.

UK does not have a constitution as such and the common law and body of jurisprudence is quite different from the US, not to mention the organisation of the state, but that is irrelevant here.

As it is irrelevant which country you live in, a contract is nothing without enforcement. That enforcement requires law that require such enforcement and a mechanism to incentivise compliance or enforce. That "free man" thing (should be free person)  is missing lots of pieces of the puzzle dude.

On the valuation of properties, look, I get it, you are way out of your league on this discussion. But if you own anything, go to the bank and try to get a credit (just as an exercise) with the argument that "I decide the value of my property, not you". They will explain to you how it works (after a good laugh of course).

Just fucking bother to read the Constitution of your fucking country and try to understand what your vote means and what it does not mean what a president can and cannot do. - I don't need to read the Constitution. It applies to government people. But if they step out of line and harm me or other non-government individuals, I might use the Constitution to put government people in their place. Because that is what the Constitution is for.

Yes, you do, you desperately need to read it. Even if it is an illustrated version for kids. The moment you are a citizen of a country you are under the rules. If you do not like it, you need to create your own country and there set your rules.

Let's follow your fantasy for a moment and assume that you can live in a country, but the laws do not apply to you - because you are so "special" or whatever other nonsense. You are voting because there is a constitution that grants you that right. That's it, you vote, you accept it. It took the blood and good thinking of many a good people (a million times better than you by any measure) to get you that right, instead of the right to plead loyalty to Charles V.

It also states what that votes means for and how the president is elected and the limits of the presidential power. As a hint for you that "do not need to read it", it does NOT say that you are electing a Messiah, your Saviour, a demi-god nor the next dalai-lama. You are electing a dude (or a gal) that has a specific job with specific rules.

If you do not like the constitution get a super-majority and make an amendment - meanwhile, it is what it is. If you try to change the rules by force (e.g. sending a mob to the Capitol to kill people) you get jail time or needle.

You do not make the laws, you live under the laws made in a country with a system that is designed to solve problems without resorting to civil war, massive battles and breaking societies plus defending you capricious ass from the real bad people out there that would kill a stupid like you just for a minute of fun. - Don't you realize that people make the laws?

Yes, indirectly by choosing representatives. You are not "the people", you are an individual and do not get to make laws on your own.

[BADecker]

~

Sounds like you don't really understand freedom, liberty, and the basics of how governments work.

The only reason why Trump is having the trouble he is having is, he agreed to it.The laws of the US are applicable to government people more than they are to non-government people. Why? Because government people took the Oath of Office (OoO). Since Trump is not in government any longer, he is not under the OoO at the moment. If he doesn't prosecute the government people for the harm they are doing to him, that's his business.

I know it a big step in understanding for a slave like you to take, but at least try to free yourself from the ignorance. Or do you like being a slave?

[DooMAD]

Sounds like you don't really understand freedom, liberty, and the basics of how governments work.

Understand it any way you like, the tangerine blowhard and his ridiculous hair implants are still going to jail.  Most likely along with a few of his co-conspirators.   

[paxmao]

~

Sounds like you don't really understand freedom, liberty, and the basics of how governments work.

The only reason why Trump is having the trouble he is having is, he agreed to it.The laws of the US are applicable to government people more than they are to non-government people. Why? Because government people took the Oath of Office (OoO). Since Trump is not in government any longer, he is not under the OoO at the moment. If he doesn't prosecute the government people for the harm they are doing to him, that's his business.

I know it a big step in understanding for a slave like you to take, but at least try to free yourself from the ignorance. Or do you like being a slave?

He certainly swore the Constitution - the one you have not read and do not understand.

You are here the only slave to your own ignorance and fantasies. The worst king of ignorant - the one who does not even know the extent of his own lack of knowledge and the worst kind of slave - one who thinks is free and lives in a wonderland of pink unicorns. Freedom is earned with blood and sweat, not shit-linking all over adult people having serious discussions.

Go to kindergaten kiddo.

[BADecker]

Sounds like you don't really understand freedom, liberty, and the basics of how governments work.

Understand it any way you like, the tangerine blowhard and his ridiculous hair implants are still going to jail.  Most likely along with a few of his co-conspirators.   

Well, you're close. It isn't jail. It's prison... the prison of the Presidency. I mean, why would anyone give up his freedom to put up with 330 million Americans and all their gripes?

Trump thanks the courts for all their advertising. The people have loved Trump since before 2020. All this court advertising is simply bringing it out into the open, as the polls are showing us.

Make America Great Again

[paxmao]

Sounds like you don't really understand freedom, liberty, and the basics of how governments work.

Understand it any way you like, the tangerine blowhard and his ridiculous hair implants are still going to jail.  Most likely along with a few of his co-conspirators.    

Well, you're close. It isn't jail. It's prison... the prison of the Presidency. I mean, why would anyone give up his freedom to put up with 330 million Americans and all their gripes?

Trump thanks the courts for all their advertising. The people have loved Trump since before 2020. All this court advertising is simply bringing it out into the open, as the polls are showing us.

[p

https://www.reuters.com/legal/about-half-us-republicans-could-spurn-trump-if-he-is-convicted-reutersipsos-poll-2023-08-03/

About half of US Republicans could spurn Trump if he is convicted, Reuters/Ipsos poll shows
...
asked respondents if they would vote for Trump for president next year if he were "convicted of a felony crime by a jury." Among Republicans, 45% said they would not vote for him
...

Try again.

[Hispo]

Sounds like you don't really understand freedom, liberty, and the basics of how governments work.

Understand it any way you like, the tangerine blowhard and his ridiculous hair implants are still going to jail.  Most likely along with a few of his co-conspirators.    

Well, you're close. It isn't jail. It's prison... the prison of the Presidency. I mean, why would anyone give up his freedom to put up with 330 million Americans and all their gripes?

Trump thanks the courts for all their advertising. The people have loved Trump since before 2020. All this court advertising is simply bringing it out into the open, as the polls are showing us.

Make America Great Again

By the way, I have not fully understood the implications or full meaning of the Trump slogan "Make America Great Again". It seems to imply there was a period of time or an era when The United States was "great" or better than it is today.
I wonder what Trump means by it, what was the golden age he intends to take back the nation to? Is he talking about the 80's, the 90's ?
Because it would be a matter of personal opinion and perspective whether those years were actually the greatest for the USA or not, even among Republicans, many of them would disagree when they golden age which they want so much actually took place.

Leaving the USA aside, to me the best years were the early 2000-2010. Probably just because it was my childhood and all was just fun and games. Who knows.

[paxmao]

Sounds like you don't really understand freedom, liberty, and the basics of how governments work.

Understand it any way you like, the tangerine blowhard and his ridiculous hair implants are still going to jail.  Most likely along with a few of his co-conspirators.    

Well, you're close. It isn't jail. It's prison... the prison of the Presidency. I mean, why would anyone give up his freedom to put up with 330 million Americans and all their gripes?

Trump thanks the courts for all their advertising. The people have loved Trump since before 2020. All this court advertising is simply bringing it out into the open, as the polls are showing us.

...

By the way, I have not fully understood the implications or full meaning of the Trump slogan "Make America Great Again". It seems to imply there was a period of time or an era when The United States was "great" or better than it is today.
I wonder what Trump means by it, what was the golden age he intends to take back the nation to? Is he talking about the 80's, the 90's ?
Because it would be a matter of personal opinion and perspective whether those years were actually the greatest for the USA or not, even among Republicans, many of them would disagree when they golden age which they want so much actually took place.

Leaving the USA aside, to me the best years were the early 2000-2010. Probably just because it was my childhood and all was just fun and games. Who knows.

Because there isn't anything behind the slogan! MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day, to the point that he may be telling people two different things in the same day like during covid.

Anyway the key items are immigration (trying to stop it even threating attacking Mexico and stuff...), international relations - extreme tariffs to imports; "stopping the war in Ukraine in 24 hours", Cozy with Ruzzia, China, North Korea, supporter of Israel, locally lowering taxes and the usual Republican economic agenda. On abortion and civil liberties, he has by now figured out that he will need a much softer approach if he wants to win elections (one day this, next day that).

All this is just a political programme - quite hyperbolic and probably not the right one for the US - but not really a problem. The problem is the already in preparation assault to institutions, putting a set of pre-screened high level civil servants that would not hesitate in breaking the law if asked to. The prep work is being done by "ONGs" that have "no relation to Trump" *wink *wink. That is the real problem, apart with giving wings to every undocumented idiot in the US that has "a theory".

[BADecker]

~

By the way, I have not fully understood the implications or full meaning of the Trump slogan "Make America Great Again". It seems to imply there was a period of time or an era when The United States was "great" or better than it is today.
I wonder what Trump means by it, what was the golden age he intends to take back the nation to? Is he talking about the 80's, the 90's ?
Because it would be a matter of personal opinion and perspective whether those years were actually the greatest for the USA or not, even among Republicans, many of them would disagree when they golden age which they want so much actually took place.

Leaving the USA aside, to me the best years were the early 2000-2010. Probably just because it was my childhood and all was just fun and games. Who knows.

Because there isn't anything behind the slogan! MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day, to the point that he may be telling people two different things in the same day like during covid.

Anyway the key items are immigration (trying to stop it even threating attacking Mexico and stuff...), international relations - extreme tariffs to imports; "stopping the war in Ukraine in 24 hours", Cozy with Ruzzia, China, North Korea, supporter of Israel, locally lowering taxes and the usual Republican economic agenda. On abortion and civil liberties, he has by now figured out that he will need a much softer approach if he wants to win elections (one day this, next day that).

All this is just a political programme - quite hyperbolic and probably not the right one for the US - but not really a problem. The problem is the already in preparation assault to institutions, putting a set of pre-screened high level civil servants that would not hesitate in breaking the law if asked to. The prep work is being done by "ONGs" that have "no relation to Trump" *wink *wink. That is the real problem, apart with giving wings to every undocumented idiot in the US that has "a theory".

You said it, "MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day..." . That's exactly what a President does and is supposed to do. Methods for Making America Great Again change along with changing circumstances. The only reason why it might look like Trump "may be telling people two different things in the same day" is, circumstances change that fast at times. It's his duty to change with the circumstance so that he is Making America Great Again.

Attacking other countries doesn't necessarily have anything to do any kind of military threat. It can be done with proper international taxation. If Mexico or any other country won't play along, increase taxation on imports into the US. At the same time, decrease taxes on exports to that country. And change the taxation daily if necessary, based on the results.

Trump as President can change loads of taxation and regulation on internal, US companies, so that they have to change themselves just to survive. But the results will ultimately Make America Great Again.

[Hispo]

~

By the way, I have not fully understood the implications or full meaning of the Trump slogan "Make America Great Again". It seems to imply there was a period of time or an era when The United States was "great" or better than it is today.
I wonder what Trump means by it, what was the golden age he intends to take back the nation to? Is he talking about the 80's, the 90's ?
Because it would be a matter of personal opinion and perspective whether those years were actually the greatest for the USA or not, even among Republicans, many of them would disagree when they golden age which they want so much actually took place.

Leaving the USA aside, to me the best years were the early 2000-2010. Probably just because it was my childhood and all was just fun and games. Who knows.

Because there isn't anything behind the slogan! MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day, to the point that he may be telling people two different things in the same day like during covid.

Anyway the key items are immigration (trying to stop it even threating attacking Mexico and stuff...), international relations - extreme tariffs to imports; "stopping the war in Ukraine in 24 hours", Cozy with Ruzzia, China, North Korea, supporter of Israel, locally lowering taxes and the usual Republican economic agenda. On abortion and civil liberties, he has by now figured out that he will need a much softer approach if he wants to win elections (one day this, next day that).

All this is just a political programme - quite hyperbolic and probably not the right one for the US - but not really a problem. The problem is the already in preparation assault to institutions, putting a set of pre-screened high level civil servants that would not hesitate in breaking the law if asked to. The prep work is being done by "ONGs" that have "no relation to Trump" *wink *wink. That is the real problem, apart with giving wings to every undocumented idiot in the US that has "a theory".

You said it, "MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day..." . That's exactly what a President does and is supposed to do. Methods for Making America Great Again change along with changing circumstances. The only reason why it might look like Trump "may be telling people two different things in the same day" is, circumstances change that fast at times. It's his duty to change with the circumstance so that he is Making America Great Again.

Attacking other countries doesn't necessarily have anything to do any kind of military threat. It can be done with proper international taxation. If Mexico or any other country won't play along, increase taxation on imports into the US. At the same time, decrease taxes on exports to that country. And change the taxation daily if necessary, based on the results.

Trump as President can change loads of taxation and regulation on internal, US companies, so that they have to change themselves just to survive. But the results will ultimately Make America Great Again.

Are you aware that economical strategy to bend the will of other countries and nations only work when those targeted countries have relatively tight commerce lines with the USA and her allies, right? Trump indeed tried to use that strategy against China and Mexico, one could have it worked good enough because they dependence of the Mexican and Chinese economy of the USA consumerism. But it is a move you cannot do against countries which rely their imports and exports on Russia/China/India and have null commercial exchange with the USA.
If the military options was never supposed to be effective, USA would have never used it through her history, in my opinion.

What concerns me is how ambiguous the MAGA slogan is, a Great country is quite a different vision, depending whom you ask.

Also, in one of lastest Trump's speeches he said he would not rest until all in America is able to afford a house a vehicle (electric or combustion). Of course, he could not care to give details on how he is planing to make the economy surge to auch levels where everyone can get all of it in less than 4 years...

[paxmao]

~

By the way, I have not fully understood the implications or full meaning of the Trump slogan "Make America Great Again". It seems to imply there was a period of time or an era when The United States was "great" or better than it is today.
I wonder what Trump means by it, what was the golden age he intends to take back the nation to? Is he talking about the 80's, the 90's ?
Because it would be a matter of personal opinion and perspective whether those years were actually the greatest for the USA or not, even among Republicans, many of them would disagree when they golden age which they want so much actually took place.

Leaving the USA aside, to me the best years were the early 2000-2010. Probably just because it was my childhood and all was just fun and games. Who knows.

Because there isn't anything behind the slogan! MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day, to the point that he may be telling people two different things in the same day like during covid.

Anyway the key items are immigration (trying to stop it even threating attacking Mexico and stuff...), international relations - extreme tariffs to imports; "stopping the war in Ukraine in 24 hours", Cozy with Ruzzia, China, North Korea, supporter of Israel, locally lowering taxes and the usual Republican economic agenda. On abortion and civil liberties, he has by now figured out that he will need a much softer approach if he wants to win elections (one day this, next day that).

All this is just a political programme - quite hyperbolic and probably not the right one for the US - but not really a problem. The problem is the already in preparation assault to institutions, putting a set of pre-screened high level civil servants that would not hesitate in breaking the law if asked to. The prep work is being done by "ONGs" that have "no relation to Trump" *wink *wink. That is the real problem, apart with giving wings to every undocumented idiot in the US that has "a theory".

You said it, "MAGA is whatever Trump decides is the flavour of the day..." . That's exactly what a President does and is supposed to do. Methods for[propaganda removed] change along with changing circumstances. The only reason why it might look like Trump "may be telling people two different things in the same day" is, circumstances change that fast at times. It's his duty to change with the circumstance so that he is Making America Great Again.

Attacking other countries doesn't necessarily have anything to do any kind of military threat. It can be done with proper international taxation. If Mexico or any other country won't play along, increase taxation on imports into the US. At the same time, decrease taxes on exports to that country. And change the taxation daily if necessary, based on the results.

Trump as President can change loads of taxation and regulation on internal, US companies, so that they have to change themselves just to survive. But the results will ultimately [propaganda removed]

Are you aware that economical strategy to bend the will of other countries and nations only work when those targeted countries have relatively tight commerce lines with the USA and her allies, right? Trump indeed tried to use that strategy against China and Mexico, one could have it worked good enough because they dependence of the Mexican and Chinese economy of the USA consumerism. But it is a move you cannot do against countries which rely their imports and exports on Russia/China/India and have null commercial exchange with the USA.
If the military options was never supposed to be effective, USA would have never used it through her history, in my opinion.

What concerns me is how ambiguous the MAGA slogan is, a Great country is quite a different vision, depending whom you ask.

Also, in one of lastest Trump's speeches he said he would not rest until all in America is able to afford a house a vehicle (electric or combustion). Of course, he could not care to give details on how he is planing to make the economy surge to auch levels where everyone can get all of it in less than 4 years...

I know that most people here will not get into the details of how stuff arrives at their tables, desks and workplaces, but trying to untangle nearly any supply chain in the US from Mexico, China and a few other countries in Asia is a nightmare. The populist approach of "we will make them play along" or "we will get a better deal" or "we will impose conditions on them" is based on the very stupid assumption that Trump's team is "just smarter".

As it is anything he says - until it comes the time to deliver. Then there comes the lies, the "deep state" not allow it, the fake information "employment is lower", we "care about minorities too",...

That is the problem when you set unrealistic expectations - you have then to work your way out of the mudpit.

Please, let's MUHA - "Make US Honest[/b] Again" and get rid of the cheap populist leader. There has to be something better to offer to the people than you know who.


Speaking of which, it is looking a lot like getting convicted - the topic of this.

[BADecker]

~

Are you aware that economical strategy to bend the will of other countries and nations only work when those targeted countries have relatively tight commerce lines with the USA and her allies, right? Trump indeed tried to use that strategy against China and Mexico, one could have it worked good enough because they dependence of the Mexican and Chinese economy of the USA consumerism. But it is a move you cannot do against countries which rely their imports and exports on Russia/China/India and have null commercial exchange with the USA.
If the military options was never supposed to be effective, USA would have never used it through her history, in my opinion.

What concerns me is how ambiguous the MAGA slogan is, a Great country is quite a different vision, depending whom you ask.

Also, in one of lastest Trump's speeches he said he would not rest until all in America is able to afford a house a vehicle (electric or combustion). Of course, he could not care to give details on how he is planing to make the economy surge to auch levels where everyone can get all of it in less than 4 years...

I know that most people here will not get into the details of how stuff arrives at their tables, desks and workplaces, but trying to untangle nearly any supply chain in the US from Mexico, China and a few other countries in Asia is a nightmare. The populist approach of "we will make them play along" or "we will get a better deal" or "we will impose conditions on them" is based on the very stupid assumption that Trump's team is "just smarter".

As it is anything he says - until it comes the time to deliver. Then there comes the lies, the "deep state" not allow it, the fake information "employment is lower", we "care about minorities too",...

That is the problem when you set unrealistic expectations - you have then to work your way out of the mudpit.

Please, let's MUHA - "Make US Honest[/b] Again" and get rid of the cheap populist leader. There has to be something better to offer to the people than you know who.


Speaking of which, it is looking a lot like getting convicted - the topic of this.

You jokers are so funny. You talk about all kinds of abstract ideals, and forget the realities of what is happening. For example. A friend reminded me that gasoline prices are coming down. "See?" he said, "Biden is doing a good job." But this friend couldn't answer when I reminded him that food prices have almost doubled under Biden, and some have more than doubled. And he didn't have anything to say at all when I showed him that gasoline prices went way up under the Biden reign before they started coming back down. So, Biden played the game of screwing America, just like he is playing the game of making it look good, now, so he gets more votes.

Personally, I would rather have America be able to manufacture all its 'stuff', rather than have to depend on foreign countries for anything. And that was what Trump was doing - https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5269905.msg55119252#msg55119252.

Bring all the jobs back to America. Make America strong within herself. Then, if other nations want to trade with her, let them bow to America's demands. Don't do any 'bad' to the other nations. Let them play with the US on the terms that the US lays down, or let them do their own thing. After all, the US doesn't need them if they are making America weak. After all, most of the modern conveniences that other nations have came from the US, or were at least started in these nations by the US.

I mean, isn't this kinda what you want for your own countries? Independence from needing to rely on any other nation?

BTW,

DEM
DASA

Or reelect Biden,

Democrats
Destroy America Somemore Again

[sirazimuth]

Ha! I see some folks here have got sucked down the BADecker trolling rabbit hole. He loves it.
I gave up debating this moron years ago with all his plethora of asinine threads.
Not worth wasting time. Every veteran on this forum knows he's the village idiot and has him on ignore or just laughs at his lunacy.
Sometimes I'll engage him if I'm bored and had a few, just for a chuckle. And I know I'll get a reply.
I think his whole life consists of trolling the bitcointalk p+s board  with nonsense and nothing else.


And to stay on topic, Mike Pence is gonna be a good witness for the prosecution in the Georgia trial, no doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHt6hnLTe5c

[paxmao]

Ha! I see some folks here have got sucked down the BADecker trolling rabbit hole. He loves it.
I gave up debating this moron years ago with all his plethora of asinine threads.
Not worth wasting time. Every veteran on this forum knows he's the village idiot and has him on ignore or just laughs at his lunacy.
Sometimes I'll engage him if I'm bored and had a few, just for a chuckle. And I know I'll get a reply.
I think his whole life consists of trolling the bitcointalk p+s board  with nonsense and nothing else.


And to stay on topic, Mike Pence is gonna be a good witness for the prosecution in the Georgia trial, no doubt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHt6hnLTe5c

Thanks good advice, I think most people no longer bother and it seems that now he is trying to get keywords and links into the algo, so it may seem that he is playing the game, but can't we all play the game? Not everything is what it looks.

Mike Pence is a big one. He is credible in general, he could have played along with the orange-ambition guy so at least he was ... smart enough? afraid enough? ambitious enough? My guess is that he has no future while Trump is around, so he is going to be motivated on this one, while he has to pretend that is just complying with the law.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/06/politics/mike-pence-georgia-witness-list/index.html

Pence’s name appearing on the witness list in Georgia, which has not been previously reported, is the first concrete sign that the Fulton County district attorney’s office is preparing to put him on the stand. Pence has already signaled a willingness to testify as a witness in any federal trial.

[BADecker]

~

Mike Pence is a big one. He is credible in general, he could have played along with the orange-ambition guy so at least he was ... smart enough? afraid enough? ambitious enough? My guess is that he has no future while Trump is around, so he is going to be motivated on this one, while he has to pretend that is just complying with the law.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/06/politics/mike-pence-georgia-witness-list/index.html

Pence’s name appearing on the witness list in Georgia, which has not been previously reported, is the first concrete sign that the Fulton County district attorney’s office is preparing to put him on the stand. Pence has already signaled a willingness to testify as a witness in any federal trial.

Mike Pence credible? Lol. He turned on his 'boss' and the American people. But that's the kind of people you like, right? Back stabbers. How big of a stabbed-to-death trail would we find in YOUR history if we followed it?

[DooMAD]

But that's the kind of people you like, right? Back stabbers.

If you believed your country was still a Democracy (and you clearly don't), you'd realise the lunatic you're rooting for is the one betraying all the principles your nation was founded upon.