Is 1miau fit for DT?

[mikeywith]

A summary of the thread is quoted below you can skip to my qoute below.

I thought twice before posting this topic, given the good relationship I had with 1miau over the years, but well..

A few weeks ago, I participated in one of the topics on the Politics & Society board, obviously with views that differ from 1miau's, what he did as a retaliation for my and other people's disagreement with his political views.

1- He asked me to remove my positive feedback on his profile because of the political disagreement. (first red flag on his incompetence of being a DT member)  

I responded to him and told him to take it easy, I did not remove the feedback because it has nothing to do with our political disagreement, but despite all that, I just assumed that he was "mad" and the next day he would come to his senses, but I was wrong.

2- The next thing he did, he removed positive feedback he left for another forum member, a member who also commented on the same topic (who also happened to disagree with 1miau's political views.

3- He removed me from his trust list despite being on it since 2019 as far as I remember.

4- He added me to his "distrust" list.

5- He suddenly remembered to tag this user who also happened to disagree with his political views on the same topic, you could argue that his feedback was correct, but given the timing, it's an obvious retaliation, that user has been tagged since 2018, well the reference he used goes back to 2018, why tag him right after he disagrees with you on a political matter?


I don't think 1miau is untrustworthy, I just think he is incompetent for DT, if his political views directly dictate whom he tags, or whom he distrusts, it probably affects who he adds to his trust list, I think a worthy DT member needs to be a grown-up level headed and use the system for the benefit of the entire community and not to impose his political views on anyone else.

Also a side but related note, I personally asked Theymos to blacklist from DT many years ago, so am not affected by 1miau exclusion by any means, I did not write this topic to get any more inclusions that I don't need anyway, I just hate to see DT members abuse the system to punish other members for political disagreement.


Here is a collection of somewhat a summary of all the complains on 1miau for those who do not want to read the whole thread (although i would encourage you to do so if you have the time).

would it be possible for you to compile a list

Feedback sent for political reasons:

Poly#Crypto is mentally ill like his friends s0nix + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
Poly#Crypto is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but Poly#Crypto has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback.

s0nix is mentally ill like his friends Poly#Crypto + Koal-84, keep in mind when you are considering to trade. Would not risk any Satoshi.
s0nix is a piece of shit, supporting russian aggression: He has no problems when Russia started attacking Ukraine, and Russians are committing war crimes but s0nix has problems when Ukrainians defend themselves. How should we trust such an asshole? See also previous feedback

Low value shitposts, spam, burst posting and excessive pyramid-quotes (61052011, 61145452 or 61021354).
In addition, amishmanish downplayed Putin's war by repeatedly spreading pro-russian lies (60250177).
It's discouraged to support such a behaviour by accepting such accounts into signature campaigns.

Shitposting Bitcointalk with low quality spam all day; then openly accusing me for off-topic shitposting...
The value Koal-84 is contributing to the forum is vanishingly small. The only occasion when his posts are getting longer is to find excuses for Russia's war against Ukraine. Disgusting behaviour from Koal-84! Avoid this Account to steer clear from unnecessary spam and derangement most probably caused due to paid signature campaigns.

nullius made some disgusting excuses, when he tried to whitewash Putin's war

Disgusting troll from the German section, where he is infamous for his lies, his unfounded defamations and his Off-Topic Spam Trollposts. Recently he has started to support Putin's war by downplaying it, spreading Kremlin propaganda and s0nix has even started attacking accounts criticizing Putins war.
The behaviour of s0nix is unforgivable and nefarious.

His shameless defamation campaign is completely nuts. He's spreading his spam, Off-Topic bullshit and pro-russian propaganda in many topics and is constantly derailing the discussion. I called him out for his wrongdoing but he doubled down on his misbehaviour.

Poly#Crypto is a troll account in our German local board. Doesn't provide any value for the forum - only spam, shitposts, inaccurate information and (of course) defamations and insults. Tries to find excuses for Putin's war.

Supporting Putins war with Kremlin Propaganda and selling it as "facts". (see my quote in the reference link).
Helping to normalize an ongoing war is a shame. For a while thandie has been a disgusting troll abusing the forum with his off-topic spam.
I addition he's trying to discredit my efforts to help raise funds for civilians in Ukraine.

One tag is not enough - this account offered to trade Merit (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3254613.0;topicseen), his shittoken project is a tremendous fail (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=3073043.msg31664978#msg31664978), KingScorpio is a disgusting troll and liar (antisemitic and racist hate comments) and stealing is not an issue for him (https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5037733.msg46197278#msg46197278). He's not sane. Better stay safe and avoid KingScorpio.

+ other feedback that was sugar-coated by other "reasons" but was sent RIGHT after a political disagreement like this one

Where 1miau openly admitted that he

5. I'm allowed to tag any troll and I already gave digaran a pass way back in 2022 when I came over him but didn't bother to "poke" the troll digaran.

And

I'm usually only getting active with trust feedbacks, when I'm getting dragged into a confrontation.

It's pretty evident that the negative feedback he left was right after the political disagreement, had they shared the same political view, he wouldn't have sent the feedback.


Trust exclusion for the sole reason of political disagreement

- Mikeywith > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63187266#msg63187266
- MindRust  >https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63191470#msg63191470
-bullrun2024bro > https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5474713.msg63200560#msg63200560

+ he almost distrusts ALL those to whom he sent political feedback, which would technically also fall under this list if, of course, out of the 70+ exclusions he has, nobody knows how many were done for just "political reasons", but ya, sure thing is, the list will just get longer with more victims to come.

Narcissistic personality disorder, the urge to insult, curse, and punish everyone who disagrees with him, either by leaving them feedback, or exclusion or trying to censorship them one way or the other 

- Mikeywith : He insulted me in public for political disagreement, sent me a PM full of hatred
- Harassing the German mod to delete posts that he doesn't like for personal or political reasons
- Multiple PMs are sent to the German mod  from people who are afraid of talking against 1miau because he would destroy their accounts
- Excluding people from competition for having a different opinion
-Constant attack against many German community members for having different opinions
-Attacked and sent feedback to a German member for political differences
-Threatening a German member via PM to take actions against him most likely using his DT power simply for political disagreement 
- Publically threatening a German member


Extortion

I was contacted by someone who interacted with 1miau for the removal of political feedback, 1miau said (I have to rephrase since the victim is afraid and I promised not to reveal his name in public).

 "if x member does not express his political opinion about x conflict anymore, I might remove my feedback."

I can't reveal more info about this message as it will lead him to know the victim's name, but as I said before, if any DT member wants the proof and promises to never reveal the victim's name, I am willing to send the proof, I made a promise that I would only show the evidence to someone I trust that they would not reveal the victim name.

- Threatening a German member to change his feedback


Mind you that zero digging was done to compile this long list of abuse and harassment, it was also either posted here or PMed to me during the past couple of days, and given how victims keep showing, it seems that the lists above have a great potential of growth, not that I think they need any more points because there is enough proof that 1miau suffers from egomania.

I am disappointed to find out that 1miau despite being smart and productive, he is just like a child who lacks surrounding awareness, if you give him a puzzle to solve, he will do it, a homework to write he will probably do it neatly, but if you leave a knife next to him, the censuses could be devastating.

So are his posts beneficial to the forum? for the most part yes.
Is he a good Merit source? he sure is.
Is he a good DT member? sure thing no.

1miau is going to harm himself and everyone else who goes against him if he stays in DT, if the DT community doesn't make up their mind to put him out of it at least temporarily, my advice to 1miau is to stay out of it himself, not being able to control your feelings and using all tools you have to punish people who disagree with you is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.


In fact, you can ignore all of the above and just look at the fact that there are some members who had to PM me or the German mod to express their fear, those poor souls are afraid to speak up because they fear what 1miau is capable of doing to them, be it a direct or indirect consequence of the way 1miau uses the system if there is at least 1 human being who needs to accept oppression in a forum that was made for a project that was intended to liberate people from centralized entities -- then this has to stop.

[1714629941]

1714629941

[1714629941]

1714629941

[LoyceMobile]

Can you add links to the topics that lead to the "conflict"?

[1miau]

After OP edited the OP as well to add more context, I'll add more context here as well.
That's a good summary about the situation:


First, many thanks for those, who tried to explain the situation on the German board, why I’ve left these neutral ratings.

It happened quite frequently, that threads in the German board were derailed on purpose by those, who have caught a neutral trust back then. And these neutral trusts are very important for readers to get an impression before interacting with these people, that every reader can make up his own opinion.
The abuses were quite severe because repeatedly, they’ve trolled with blunt lies even after the remaining members had debunked them. Anyone who dared to criticize the massive trolling was accused of "oppression", like these spammers are still calling it today but the reality is that our trolls can’t face any criticism without crying "oppression".

They just want to spread their propaganda without getting exposed as lies and getting called out for doing that.
That’s what they want and of course I will use my right for free speech to debunk that and call them out for spreading lies.
It’s not my problem that they were not ready for criticism.

So, our trolls are the ones who were always trying to prevent our spot-on criticism against their lies. Because it exposed their lies.

And these abusers in question did that derailing, lying and trolling again, again and again, despite some warnings from the moderation in the early days.
Quite a few members called out our trolls back then for their derailing, but unfortunately, some of these sane members have left the board, while a whole bunch of these abusers is still around.
Annoyed from the drama and despite the obvious lies from our trolls, the trolls were successful to trick the German moderator into doing little to nothing, sometimes a few weak warnings, when the derailing was too much. But overally, the trolls always tried to push the boundaries to their benefit. Of course, we pushed back, with criticism, with exposing their lies and neutral trust if there was any documented abuse.

We called for the moderator to sort out the issue and to do the moderation job. Even Nazi sympathizing gained traction or, legitimizing the war of Russia against Ukraine and spreading proven lies, of course. The trolls tried to derail our criticism by posting the same lies, re-phrased, again and again. But our feedback to take action against this was not heard.
Even later, plagiarism was covered up and even clear rule violation posts were ignored.
Of course, that emboldened the trolls. And they are now taking the chance to get rid of the consequences they got back then.  

If any troll is of the opinion, that the forum is a propaganda platform or should turn into one, fuck around and find out. I'm ready to oppose such abusers who are purposefully spreading the same lies again and again, using their perfidious tactics to derail discussions and damage our forum and society by sowing discord (on Bitcointalk and in real life).
That’s part of free speech that disgusting, repeated lies and bullshit propaganda are met with opposition, that people are well allowed to distrust these people, call them out for their disgusting bullshit and oppose any such abuse of the forum.
It’s not about "political opinion", what you are trying to make it look like, mikeywith, it’s about spreading proven lies and the entire process how to derail the discussion to spread all sorts of degenerate propaganda while these propaganda trolls are actively trying to play the victim role to delegitimize criticism. If you want to turn the forum into a propaganda platform, yes, that’s the way to go…

At some point, we have to ask, if such misbehaviour is really beneficial for Bitcointalk or if the community should be able to push back and add a simple neutral trust for this mixture of lies, propaganda, trolling, derailing, shitposting and other things, where neutral trust is appropriate.
I believe, yes, it’s possible.
Neutral trust is completely fine for such things, it’s not negative, if there’s no abuse involved, where a negative trust is deserved. Neutral trust is “hey, before any interaction, you might be interested to read this, here’s a reference link”.  
That’s a very uncontroversial neutral trust in my opinion.
And DT will approve or disapprove that.


Of course, I will also PM certain abusers before opening a topic in Reputation to avoid more drama, if that drama can be avoided, like it happened in the case of positive trust abuse of our shitposter friends Unknown01 and MinoRaiola. Or should I slap them the topic directly in their face like mikeywith did here, without any effort to solve it via PM first?
Therefore, your accusation against me that I’m “extorting members” is beyond ridiculous because it’s not even true, and this unfounded claim just shows your malicious intentions here. Trying to solve issues via PM first is the way to go, not slapping a reputation topic directly into someone’s face.  
That you are taking that whole thing here out of context, aided by our known (and unknown) trolls is one of your problems. That’s either malicious intent from you or you have failed your job, to check your sources properly or you simply parrot whatever our shitposting, propaganda spamming, NS apologia clowns will serve you, without checking twice what really happened and what they are trying to push.
The other problem is that you are enabling and whitewashing also their abuses of positive trust to get their accounts more easily into a paid sig campaign aside from enabling far right trolls, other lies and abuses, hate and division and derailing of discussions in our local board.
Shame!

You are not in any position to dictate me what to do, mikeywith.
Your demand is extremely ridiculous considering your limited knowledge about Germany's past and current ongoings and the fascist agenda of some trolls in the German section to bring us closer to Hitler 2.0 with the very same tactic getting applied from some radicalized Nazi trolls (luckily they have left the forum). You don't know anything about the far right propaganda they have shared on the forum.
I'm not interested that Germany gets turned into 3rd Reich once again and I'll do my part to bust a bunch of radicalized trolls, gullible conspiracy theorists, whose abuses are blindly defended by you.

- Harassing the German mod to delete posts that he doesn't like for personal or political reasons
- Multiple PMs are sent to the German mod  from people who are afraid of talking against 1miau because he would destroy their accounts
-Constant attack against many German community members for having different opinions
-Attacked and sent feedback to a German member for political differences
-Threatening a German member via PM to take actions against him most likely using his DT power simply for political disagreement  
- Publically threatening a German member

Your whole compilation of accusations against me is a bunch of nothingburgers taken out of context by you and our local abusers that they can push their propaganda further, without any pushback. You are their gullible enabler.
Considering that you have enabled radicalized islamism here as well, where antisemitism is very popular, it's no surprise that you are siding with far right forces heren blindly defending them and parrotting their lies.
Playing the victim card is the only thing they are succesful in because their arguments are too weak and can be exposed easily.
Enabling these unproven accusations is not only a very uneducated move from you, mikeywith, it's actively harmful for the forum and the whole society.
Considering the situation as described above, it's easily recognizable that your empty accusations apprear in a completely different light now: that you fell for their victim card propaganda.

- Excluding people from competition for having a different opinion

Next one is that you are obviously trying to dictate me, how I have to spend my Bitcoin, when I'm doing giveaways?  
Do you think I'm going to give my valuable Bitcoin to idiots and trolls, propaganda pushers, shitposters and their friends?
Instead of being thankful that I'm giving out valuable BTC you come up like a true dictator, dictating me how I have to do them.
How about doing your own giveaway with your own Bitcoin? Your giveaway, your rules, my giveaway, my rules. Stop dictating others what they have to do! Because no, I'm not going to dictate the rules there because I believe everyone should be able to decide how they spend their Bitcoin.
Thanks for showing your true face once again that you are an horrible person and totally deserve your spot on my distrust list.

tl;dr

No need for me to be on DT, I believe in a truly decentralized system, where no one is able to dictate anything, like which neutral trust ratings are acceptable or not. If other members are getting legitimized to interfere how other members are allowed to give out neutral trusts, our trolls will start new witch hunts again and again, terrorizing DT members.
And mikeywith is clearly doing this, without backing down from his initial claims, that I would have to remove all past feedbacks of the sort explained above AND for new feedbacks (and if there are new feedbacks, there would be the same witch-hunt again).
Let the whole community decide if they want to have these neutral feedbacks visible by default or not.



To address some of the abuses, where a legitimate neutral trust was given, without any doubt:


MinoRaiola

MinoRaiola is a known plagiarizer, getting caught already in 3 cases (probably, there’s even more).
MinoRaiola is a known shitposter, also defending his shitposter friends.
MinoRaiola was caught to circle positive trust for no reason with his pal Unknown01 to bolster their accounts in signature campaigns.
That’s why MinoRaiola deserves his neutral trust.


Unknown01

Unknown01 is an excessive shitposter in our local German section.
He got even a reprimand:

@Unknown01, you make many posts like these:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336682.msg57014417#msg57014417
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1336682.msg57014702#msg57014702
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5269042.msg57008252#msg57008252
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=628413.msg57004830#msg57004830
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5312941.msg57003942#msg57003942

All of the above are (to me) hard to conisder as constructive posts. One liners, without quoting or seemingly addressing anyone in the thread and ending in a smiley (which to me makes it look even more like a one-liner).
I'd like to think I have been very consistent with how I count posts in all of my campaigns, not to mention lenient.


Most of my clients will often ask me why I accept/count local board posts and I always fight for you guys, to let you keep posting in local boards and getting paid for it. Just needs to be more compelling and we're all good, you guys know I love the german subs!

My reminders to apply a high posting quality have been met with aggressive name-calling, crybaby excuses and defamations (see the neutral feedbacks on his account).
Unknown01 was caught to circle positive trust for no reason with his pal MinoRaiola to bolster their accounts in signature campaigns.
That’s why Unknown01 deserved his neutral trust.

It's no surprise, we can find even more, when we are digging. For everyone who wants to make his own opinion, you can read the trust feedbacks and click the reference link. That’s why I’ve always included a reference link for every reader to make DYOR.
These liars and their enablers might show up here and tell you anything. All the feedbacks have a reference link, where everyone can read up the truth himself. The links above are a great start for the abuses, MinoRaiola and Unknown01 are involved in.


Another issue is paid shitposting.
Signature campaigns are somehow a problem causing this but I believe the real problem are greedy shitposters and I’ve been ready to call them out. Unfortunately, when there are too many of these, they will take revenge at some point. I’ve left them neutral trust ratings, that everyone can read up on the issue and make up his own opinion, so everyone will be aware of some of them.

Now, that many abusers are seeing the witch hunt launched by mikeywith here, they will gladly join to score some cheap points.
Like mikeywith, they are obsessed to throw with dirt because as we know they have no other arguments and the victim card will be out immediately.


Just to address the last accusations.

Luckily, the situation had calmed down on the German board over the last year a bit.
I'm not so sure if that will stay like that after the recent discord.
But let's hope so.





Initial reply:


Interesting that you are siding with digaran, our troll in our recent case, where digaran stirred shit, repeatedly out of nowhere.
Let me quote this here:

@Vod, are you trolling this trust abuser nazi? I have first hand experience, if he fails to continue an argument he will immediately resort to finding something on you just to tag you, be careful.

But you are the one who is poking 1miau and want to fuel it. LOL

Exactly this and this hasn't been the first time, digaran engaged in excessive trolling:

1miau

This is because these users are examples, indeed. They are also Merit Sources and (with few exceptions) DT1 users. And they act fair and decent.

Thanks for the joke OP.

Don't tell me, you and your nazi friend will give them neutral or even negative, right? Because who really cares if 2 nazis run around the forum and individually harass forum members with threats, trust feedbacks, am I right or am I right?

The way I see some of you weasel nazis operate, soon it will be you and your alts all alone left here with nothing to do but circle fingering each other.😅

(And that's only what I've detected in the threads I've read.)

Looks like I'm living in his mind rent-free.  
And if there was any doubt if these feedbacks on digaran's account were justified, at least now we know that they are 100% deserved.  

Well, looking at digaran's feedback, he's doing that for quite a while now:



And earned his negative trusts.

Regarding your other accusations:

1. I'm allowed to made any requests, if you don't like them, ignore them or report my PMs to the moderation if you think it's a "unsolicited PM". I'm allowed to address your false claims against me and your false claims and your islamist propaganda on P&S board, of course.
You don't even have to agree.

2. I'm allowed to change, or remove any of my trust feedbacks. This isn't controversial at all.

3. Wow, seems like we have to justify every change in our trust list or we'll get bombarded with a thread in Reputation...  

4. Same like 3 but for distrust list

5. I'm allowed to tag any troll and I already gave digaran a pass way back in 2022 when I came over him but didn't bother to "poke" the troll digaran.


I'm always trying to be fair on DT and giving the people the benefit of doubt and I was already considering to remove you from my distrust list, after I even merited one of your posts in our German local board.
Looks like this topic is your "thankful" response...
So after you are slapping here right in my face, I don't feel anymore to reconsider my distrust list entry.  
Thanks for confirming that I did the right thing by adding you to my distrust list and you'll stay there.

There's a simple solution how DT will solve such issues: if you don't like my tags, if you don't like my trust list entries, you can simply distrust me.
It's a decentralited system.
As simple as that.

Can you add links to the topics that lead to the "conflict"?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470732.msg63017139#msg63017139

[mikeywith]

Can you add links to the topics that lead to the "conflict"?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=5470732.msg63017139#msg63017139

Interesting that you are siding with digaran, our troll in our recent case, where digaran stirred shit, repeatedly out of nowhere.

I am not siding with anyone, I am simply questioning your timing, according to the reference you used in your feedback, digaran should have been tagged since 2018, but you only remembered to tag him the moment he disagreed with your political views, had you not found other negative feedback on his profile, what would you do to punish him for disagreeing with you? add him to your distrust list?

Well, looking at digaran's feedback, he's doing that for quite a while

Correct, but it seems fine by you, until he disagrees with your political view, no?

1. I'm allowed to made any requests, if you don't like them, ignore them or report my PMs to the moderation if you think it's a "unsolicited PM". I'm allowed to address your false claims against me and your false claims and your islamist propaganda on P&S board, of course.
You don't even have to agree.

You are correct, you could also request that people remove their positive feedback on your profile, you could also disagree with everyone on all politics, it's clear that I am not objecting to that, but you are mixing political views and the trust system, just because I think you are brainwashed by certain media -- it does not mean I think you are untrustworthy.

2. I'm allowed to change, or remove any of my trust feedbacks. This isn't controversial at all.

3. Wow, seems like we have to justify every change in our trust list

4. Same like 3 but for distrust list

You are allowed to do all of that, but your behavior makes your feedback worthless, if the moment someone disagrees with you on a political subject you rush to delete your positive feedback, add him to your distrust list, and see if you can leave him negative feedback then that doesn't make you a solid DT member, letting your political feelings get in the way of using the trust system is bad for the forum as a whole.

If you were not a DT member none of that would matter, but given that you are a DT member then everything you do matters, judging by what you did, you will eventually weaken the position of good DT members just because they disagree with your political stands, and the opposite will likely occur, you could very will bring to DT2 untrustworthy members who just happen to share your political points of you.

5. I'm allowed to tag any troll and I already gave digaran a pass way back in 2022 when I came over him but didn't bother to "poke" the troll digaran.

So you confirm that in 2022 before the political disagreement said member was given a pass despite the fact that according to you

he's known for his past shady dealings. Not to be trusted.

So him being a troll, and having shady dealings deserves a pass but a year later, and the second he disagreed with your political views, he now magically and suddenly becomes worthy of your negative feedback?
 

I'm always trying to be fair on DT and giving the people the benefit of doubt and I was already considering to remove you from my distrust list,

Unlike you, I am not obsessed with the trust system, your exclusion means exactly nothing to me in itself, it's your behavior, that I personally think will hurt the trust system.

after I even merited one of your posts in our German local board.
Looks like this topic is your "thankful" response...

I don't thank people for sending me Merit, I also don't expect anyone to thank me for merit, you seem to have a major misunderstanding of the difference between, feedback , trust list, merit, and one's personal political opinions, I don't, I will continue to merit your good posts when I see them, I will keep the positive feedback because I still think you are to be trusted with trades, I just think you will eventually cause more harm than good to the trust system if you don't change your way of dealing with the system.

As simple as that.

It's a lot simpler to ignore other members' political opinions, it's the internet, and you can't curse and insult everyone who disagrees with you, furthermore, you shouldn't use the trust system for your own agenda, I would have respected your exclusion if you had good reasoning on why you think my judgment related to the trust system is bad, but I know your only reason was that we didn't agree on the same points regarding a certain topic that has nothing to do with trust system, which is, a terrible way of dealing with the trust list.

I also don't know what was your ultimate goal by excluding me from your trust list, I would suddenly change my point of view on a conflict that has been going on for 70 years. , I don't hate you 1miau, I still think you are a good person, you just need to grow up and stop mixing things here and there, but until you do, I really think you are not fit for DT.

Auf Wiedersehen.

[khaled0111]

..

You made a multi quote but, as far as I can see, mikeywith isn't part of the duscusion you quoted! Why are you accusing mw of siding with digaran although he didn't even make a simple post to support digaran! And we all know that mw will never be and can't be a friend of digaran.
You are just trying to descredit mw just because he shares the same point of view as digaran. do your best 😉

[digaran]

WOW, cool project.. hmmm, sorry I lost my mind for a second. First of all, thanks for standing up against abuse, but would you be here if he was politically aligned with you? Of course not. When you fight injustice and corruption, you should leave every single biased pieces of yourself outside the door for the ground you are about to enter is sacred and should not be polluted.


In all of human societies people have had 4 things to measure and evaluate benefits versus loss. Sorry to be so blunt,
1. Their brains.
2. Their hearts.
3. Their pockets.
4. Their gentiles.

Whenever you could ignore 3 and 4, and decide how to live with using 1 and 2, you will win in life.
DT system here is governed by 3 and 4, and what allows that to continue like this? The answer is: people either divert such situations down there, or they think about their pockets. When somebody doesn't do that, they become a burden for this perfect system of scam, spam and abuse.
The easiest possible solution are labels such as "troll, liar,  harasser, scammer".

Since people are busy all the time, they never bother to read to find the bottom of a case, they just look at the names and switch to their NPC mode, because that's the way how things work here, a free and uncensored forum for discussion my behind, if you don't enforce the right of freedom, there will be no freedom, there will be no advancements because everybody would keep a low profile just to get by.  

That's worse than censoring and restrictions, that's called taming people to your will, making NPCs out of everybody.

Such communities will never succeed and advance.  aka decentralization without any foundation, and what would be the best foundation? Having a sets of rules that must be followed  > whenever you see abuse, speak up so that others could muster the courage and speak their minds.

When the majority stands up against abuse and injustice that's when little weasels get who is the boss, now they think they are the boss since there is no opposition.

[1miau]

I am simply questioning your timing, according to the reference you used in your feedback, digaran should have been tagged since 2018, but you only remembered to tag him the moment he disagreed with your political views, had you not found other negative feedback on his profile, what would you do to punish him for disagreeing with you? add him to your distrust list?

Yes, he should have been tagged way sooner. My bad.
Most of hist posts are Bitcointalk rule violations anyways for "trolling" but since it's not enforced, he thinks he can derail every topic.

Well, looking at digaran's feedback, he's doing that for quite a while

Correct, but it seems fine by you, until he disagrees with your political view, no?

So, I should give out tags for every troll here on Bitcointalk even if we don't have any interaction at all?
What a level headed opinion...  

This would end up as a massive shitshow, where trolls will get food left and right.
I'm usually only getting active with trust feedbacks, when I'm getting dragged into a confrontation.
And I believe this is vital to avoid too much drama on the forum.

it's clear that I am not objecting to that, but you are mixing political views and the trust system, just because I think you are brainwashed by certain media -- it does not mean I think you are untrustworthy.

Well, if you like to get some accusations going, I'll respond that you are brainwashed by islamist propaganda and you have a problem with it that I'm opposing that. You couldn't care less but as we know from islamist extremists, they'll force their believes on others at any price.

2. I'm allowed to change, or remove any of my trust feedbacks. This isn't controversial at all.

3. Wow, seems like we have to justify every change in our trust list

4. Same like 3 but for distrust list

You are allowed to do all of that, but your behavior makes your feedback worthless,

If you think, my feedback is worthless, feel free to distrust me.
It's a decentralized system.
That's how DT works.

Also, I'm thinking your judgement is not something I would feel fine to support.
That's why I've distrusted you.
Get over it.

you could very will bring to DT2 untrustworthy members who just happen to share your political points of you.

How about backing your claims with some proof, that I would bring "untrustworthy members" into DT2?
Unproven speculations are exactly what we don't need on DT.

What a shady try from you to discredit me with things, where you don't have any proof.

I'm always trying to be fair on DT and giving the people the benefit of doubt and I was already considering to remove you from my distrust list,

Unlike you, I am not obsessed with the trust system, your exclusion means exactly nothing to me in itself, it's your behavior, that I personally think will hurt the trust system.

Once again a false claim, like I have seen them quite often from you now, which is disappointing. So, no, your assumptions are already completely fabricated, that your conclusion can't be accurate at all. Do you think you could throw with as much mud as possible and hope that something will stick?
I'm not obsessed with being a DT member at all. I wouldn't care less if you or someone else distrusts me. You can do it, right away, if you feel so. Same like I have distrusted you.

I also don't know what was your ultimate goal by excluding me from your trust list

I'm changing my trust list quite frequently, so you've been in the mix that week. It's not controversial at all. Some DT1 members have a distrust list, where much more members (trolls) are on.
Maybe it's more of a problem, that people feel offended by getting removed from DT? Maybe such people are the bigger issue?
I don't know.

It's really sad to see your misleading suggestions here, like the one I would be adding "untrustworthy members" to DT, which isn't true at all.
It's really sad to see your reaction here now about our personal issue because I believed this was (mostly settled) and was reconsidering to remove you from my distrust list but thanks to this post, this might still be far away.
I feel I'm way too often way too soft on trust issues, giving everyone too much benefit of doubt.
But on the other hand, I don't want to cause too much unnecessary drama because it's just a waste of time.
It's so simple, that everyone can create his own trust list and should have a thicker skin if someone distrusts anyone / doesn't trust anyone anymore.

[mikeywith]

You made a multi quote but, as far as I can see, mikeywith isn't part of the duscusion you quoted! Why are you accusing mw of siding with digaran although he didn't even make a simple post to support digaran!

hmm, I don't think he meant that I was a part of the discussion between the two of them, he was just trying to "justify" why he left that feedback, which was a waste of time and effort because I did not contest the feedback itself, I only questioned the timing.

In fact, If you check his first feedback

1miau

2023-10-18

Reference

digaran is a proven troll. He is known for spreading lies, harassing forum (DT) members and is known for his past shady dealings. Not to be trusted.

He just copied the same exact link from marlboroza feedback, then he deleted it and posted a new feedback with the original (not archived) post, I think right after the political discussion he had he was just rushing to punish everyone who disagreed with him, I am glad he doesn't have more power than that or else at moments of anger he could have caused some serious damage to everyone who disagrees with him.

but would you be here if he was politically aligned with you?

I wouldn't, because I have been on his trust list since 2019, we interacted a dozen times, and I won't even count the number of PMs we had back and forth, I was always nice to him and he was always nice to me, he even invited me to the German section on many occasions, we always shared that "merit race" memories,  I don't believe much in "online friendship" however, if there is such a thing, then 1miau and I were actually "online friends", but none of that made any difference to him the moment he discovered that I disagree with his political views, so if he did that to someone like me whom he knows and had a good relationship with, I can only imagine what he would do to someone he doesn't know or someone he dislikes for other reasons.

On a side but related note, @digaran, this isn't the perfect thread for your issues with 1miau which fall outside of the context of this thread, I am not going to discuss the legitimacy of the feedback he left you, it's only the timing that matters.

I'm usually only getting active with trust feedbacks, when I'm getting dragged into a confrontation.

You sure are, it's very clear what you did right after the political disagreement.  

feel free to distrust me.
 

Or, I could expose your incompetence and let everyone decide for themselves.

Also, I'm thinking your judgement is not something I would feel fine to support.
That's why I've distrusted you.
 

Ok so now you are gone from "trying to justify" to straight out "lie until they believe you", the only reason you did that was because I happened to disagree with you on a political subject, at least dare to admit it.

How about backing your claims with some proof, that I would bring "untrustworthy members" into DT2?
Unproven speculations are exactly what we don't need on DT.

What a shady try from you to discredit me with things, where you don't have any proof.

I said "could", which is something that has a high probability of happening, the fact that you exclude members because of their political views, tag members right after they disagree with you, and remove positive feedback, suggests that you could at one point start to include members based on the same reasons you remove them.

I'm changing my trust list quite frequently, so you've been in the mix that week. It's not controversial at all.

it is very strange to remove someone you had in there since 2019, and then add them to your distrust list, just right after having a political disagreement. you still don't get it, it's not about me not being on your trust list anymore, it has exactly zero effect on my forum life, you want to make it sound like I am demanding your inclusion as if I created the same topic about everyone who distrusts me or doesn't include me in their list, you are smart enough to understand the basis of this topic but you keep pretending that you don't because you know very well that your political views reflect so hard on the way you use the trust system, you don't want to say it out loud despite actually practicing it, you are just afraid of losing that power and then whenever someone disagree with you on any political subject you won't have any DT power to "punish them".

It's really sad to see your reaction here now about our personal issue because I believed this was (mostly settled)

If I wanted to discuss our personal issue I would have posted all the insults you pointed to me, or the PMs, or how bad I feel about losing someone who I considered a friend, but I am not here to discuss "our personal" issues, I am here to discuss your bad usage of the trust system since that affects the forum as a whole, not just you and I.

I feel I'm way too often way too soft on trust issues.

I agree, and that's the cause of all this, you have some anger management issues, and you unleash the beast inside of you when people disagree with you, this is something that DT members must not do. if you can't handle disagreements, don't get yourself involved in discussions, it's unrealistic to expect people to agree with you on everything, and when they don't -- try to punish them with every tool at your disposal.

[1miau]

You made a multi quote but, as far as I can see, mikeywith isn't part of the duscusion you quoted! Why are you accusing mw of siding with digaran although he didn't even make a simple post to support digaran!

hmm, I don't think he meant that I was a part of the discussion between the two of them, he was just trying to "justify" why he left that feedback, which was a waste of time and effort because I did not contest the feedback itself, I only questioned the timing.

The "arguments" of you both are so similar, where you try to silence me for simply saying the truth.  
That you can't deal with it is not my problem but luckily, it's not your issue what I'm sending for feedbacks or which members I'm adding on my distrust list.
That's how DT works, or did you miss it?

feel free to distrust me.
 

Or, I could expose your incompetence and let everyone decide for themselves.

Yes, let the people decide what's more shady:
- that I've added you to my distrust list due to your disgusting, inappropriate islamist propaganda and the misleading accusations against me
- that you are stirring shit here because you are butthurt that I've added you on my distrust list

Also, I'm thinking your judgement is not something I would feel fine to support.
That's why I've distrusted you.
 

Ok so now you are gone from "trying to justify" to straight out "lie until they believe you", the only reason you did that was because I happened to disagree with you on a political subject, at least dare to admit it.

I'm very outspoken about this, and I've already stated that way back, when we had our disagreement that I disapprove your behaviour but for whatever reason, you are just coming up with it right now.
You can cry now, make mad accusations against me but you are the one who's stirring shit here because you can't get over it that I've added you on my distrust list.
Thanks once again for proving me right that I made the right call to add you there.
I was reconsidering my distrust entry but thanks to your accusation post, I dodged a bulled.  

How about backing your claims with some proof, that I would bring "untrustworthy members" into DT2?
Unproven speculations are exactly what we don't need on DT.

What a shady try from you to discredit me with things, where you don't have any proof.

I said "could", which is something that has a high probability of happening, the fact that you exclude members because of their political views, tag members right after they disagree with you, and remove positive feedback, suggests that you could at one point start to include members based on the exact reasons you remove them.

We all know how this is intended by bringing up some uproven speculations: people will read it, get a wrong impression and what will stick in the end is only the (unproven) accusation.
This is just shady but that's totally something I've expected coming from you.
I can come up with a similarly stupid example, accusing you of something, what "could" happen and that would just help no one.

I'm changing my trust list quite frequently, so you've been in the mix that week. It's not controversial at all.

it is very strange to remove someone you had in there since 2019, and then add them to your distrust list, just right after having a political disagreement. you still don't get it, it's not about me not being on your trust list anymore, it has exactly zero effect on my forum life, you want to make it sound like I am demanding your inclusion as if I created the same topic about everyone who distrusts me or doesn't include me in their list, you are smart enough to understand the basis of this topic but you keep pretending that you don't because you know very well that your political views reflect so hard on the way you use the trust system, you don't want to say it out loud despite actually practicing it,

I've already said that I've distrusted you after your inappropriate reaction to my criticism of your islamist propaganda.
Deal with it and get some more thick skin.

you are just afraid of losing that power and then whenever someone disagree with you on any political subject you won't have any DT power to "punish them".

Once again, just empty lies.
I don't care if someone distrusts or trusts me.
If I would care about everyone's trust list inclusions, where I'm getting trusted / distrusted like you do here obviously, we would have endless drama here on the forum.  

It's really sad to see your reaction here now about our personal issue because I believed this was (mostly settled)

If I wanted to discuss our personal issue I would have posted all the insults you pointed to me, or the PMs, or how bad I feel about losing someone who I considered a friend, but I am not here to discuss "our personal" issues, I am here to discuss your bad usage of the trust system since that affects the forum as a whole, not just you and I.

Wow, crybaby, "a good friend", we are on the internet after all.
Grow a thicker skin.  

I feel I'm way too often way too soft on trust issues.

I agree, and that's the cause of all this, you have some anger management issues, and you unleash the beast inside of you when people disagree with you, this is something that DT members must not do. if you can't handle disagreements, don't get yourself involved in discussions, it's unrealistic to expect people to agree with you on everything, and when they don't -- try to punish them with every tool at your disposal.

Yes, sure, I'm having some anger management issues, not the one who's creating a topic in reputation with several misleading false claims against me like you did when whe had our disagreement and that's why I've added you on my distrust list.
But if you want to have a big drama here, I'll open a topic as well and we'll have a nice (but very unnecessary) shitshow.

[mikeywith]

There you go again with your anger management issues, I am not going to reply to the same stuff again, there is enough evidence that you are trying to punish everyone who disagree with your political b.s, you just admitted it.

If other DT members think that someone like you deserves to still be in DT, you will, if not you will eventually be removed, I am not imposing my point view of anyone, just stating facts which you could not deny because they all are still there for everyone to see.

Now if you would excuse me, I am not going to reply to any of your attacks because I have no time for that.

[digaran]

Of course they won't exclude him, after all why would anyone remove the butter from their bread? Or why would they cut their own nails which is useful to do the scratching ? Wait till his buddies wake up and visit this thread to feel the full force of "kissing the ring".
Since I have felt a few indirect accusations here, would you care to show my troll posts and lies deserving neg feed back?  Unless you consider providing facts about people's behaviour as trolling. Otherwise you won't find it.

I guess you lost your credibility the moment you said if he was a political ally you woudn't care for his abusive behaviour. Nevertheless, abusers should remain isolated because they are indeed like a virus.

[1miau]

There you go again with your anger management issues, I am not going to reply to the same stuff again, there is enough evidence that you are trying to punish everyone who disagree with your political b.s, you just admitted it.

Since you are the one, who still replied here, according to your logic, you are the one having anger management issues, after that statement. 
If everyone would open a new topic about trust list exclusions, we would have pages of drama every day.

And if someone thinks, he is "punished", by getting opposition on an online forum, maybe this person is just mad as f*ck that their propaganda got exposed, like your crybaby respose shows here. Better invest in more valid arguments if the only thing left for you is to play the "victim card" (the victim card is usually the last resort of propaganda pushers, liars and trolls once their bullshittery is bused).

Of course they won't exclude him, after all why would anyone remove the butter from their bread?

You are completely delusional, if you think exclusions are something controversial. They happen all day. Of course you are just here for stirring shit now. Thanks for proving once again that you are a delusional, DT hating troll.
Or are you begging for an additional negative trust?

Since I have felt a few indirect accusations here, would you care to show my troll posts and lies deserving neg feed back?  Unless you consider providing facts about people's behaviour as trolling. Otherwise you won't find it.

Do you read my posts (or even remember your own posts), where you have stirred shit repeatedly without any context in someone else's topic? Or are you not capable of noticing that because you are a habitual troll?
You are just here to derail topics, called "trolling"!

I guess you lost your credibility the moment you said if he was a political ally you woudn't care for his abusive behaviour. .

I've said that nowhere but its no surprise, that you are making things up.
Thanks for proving once again, that you are a habitual liar!

Nevertheless, abusers should remain isolated because they are indeed like a virus.

Yes, trolls should remain isolated, they contribute nothing to the forum (except a bit traffic).

[digaran]

It looks like you are the one confused here, and you are the one taking my quotes from different topics and post them on another topic just to stay relevant.  Of course I laugh when someone says "exemplary, fair and decent" about a trust abuser like you, remember you started it first, and I have all the rights to remind everyone about people like you when there is a chance and when the subject of discussion is relevant.

Btw, you might wanna re-read the posts above yours, I was never talking to you, but to OP, because you never had any credibility to begin with, for me to say you have lost it.

You are so childish and abusive that after Learn Bitcoin posted to say something negative about me, you immediately interpreted it as a warrant and quoted it as a justifiable reason to keep harassing me.

If this topic is about you, then I have all the rights to be here. Looks like you are constantly after finding any excuses to just show it to everyone that you were right in tagging me, that shows how insecure you are about your own decisions.

[1miau]

Of course I laugh when someone says "exemplary, fair and decent" about a trust abuser like you, remember you started it first, and I have all the rights to remind everyone about people like you when there is a chance and when the subject of discussion is relevant.

The big issue you fail to understand here is that your action has no Merit at all.
All you show is how butthurt you are and you are playing the victim card, how unfair "mean DT" would treat you.
You are at -6 Trust for a reason and no one likes your malicious behaviour.
But you gave the perfect explanation for "trolling" and "derailing the discussion" by stirring shit against certain members who are against your bullshit here. It's very sad that marlboroza is not around anymore. But we have some other members to keep trolls like you in check.
So, keep digging your troll hole.

[digaran]

The big issue you fail to understand here is that your action has no Merit at all.
All you show is how butthurt you are and you are playing the victim card, how unfair "mean DT" would treat you.
You are at -6 Trust for a reason and no one likes your malicious behaviour.
But you gave the perfect explanation for "trolling" and "derailing the discussion" by stirring shit against certain members who are against your bullshit here. It's very sad that marlboroza is not around anymore. But we have some other members to keep trolls like you in check.
So, keep digging your troll hole.

I mean you are absolutely right(sarcasm), you harassed me by a neg tag and then mocked me several times on different topics, you can't dictate what I can or can't do, you see off topic, trolling? Report them, I have a neck thinner than a strand of hair when it comes to mods.(Ok, just don't go searching for my past dramas regarding that. Lol.)

Since I'm not the type to retaliate with neg trust, or use the neg trust whenever I fail to win an argument, instead I would use any chance I can get to unmask the truth.

You got scared when I complained about you to Vod? So cute that you are only afraid of other DTs, it's called survival of the fittest, *weasels must be afraid of hyenas.😉

*= I say that because of your avatar and it also fits your behaviour towards forum members, besides I'm saying everything to your face, not in your trust page.

Now go get your toughest thugs, I'm no longer a kid you could gang bully him, anymore. I will be waiting here or anywhere.
Btw, quit threatening me with "you will now get more tags" for what? Which one of the DT members I harassed continuously without any reason?  I have proof for all my claims.

[Despairo]

Unfortunately many users use merit, feedback and trust list base on what they like and don't like. But, is 1miau fit for DT? currently I will say YES because this case isn't a big mess.

Removing a positive feedback won't harm the account, adding you to his distrust list won't make you get off from DT as you still have 7 strengths, leaving one more negative feedback to user which previously have 5 negative feedbacks is not necessary, but also not wrong as the user was a troll.

And 1miau is right with what he was saying.

There's a simple solution how DT will solve such issues: if you don't like my tags, if you don't like my trust list entries, you can simply distrust me.

As I don't see whether you paint 1miau's profile or he paint your profile, I'd say you both are still fine and don't deserved to get further action.

[Poker Player]

But, is 1miau fit for DT? currently I will say YES because this case isn't a big mess.

I totally agree.

And 1miau is right with what he was saying.

There's a simple solution how DT will solve such issues: if you don't like my tags, if you don't like my trust list entries, you can simply distrust me.

As I don't see whether you paint 1miau's profile or he paint your profile, I'd say you both are still fine and don't deserved to get further action.

I doubt very much that all the DTs that trust 1miau are going to change as happened in the case of Ratimov because of what is exposed here.

In any case I think this section is missing a thread that is like:

Is a troll like digaran fit to get paid for trolling having 6 red tags?

What happens is that I am not going to open it because I suppose it would reopen old wounds with his current campaign manager but it is difficult to understand that case.

[BenCodie]

But, is 1miau fit for DT? currently I will say YES because this case isn't a big mess.

I totally agree.

And 1miau is right with what he was saying.

There's a simple solution how DT will solve such issues: if you don't like my tags, if you don't like my trust list entries, you can simply distrust me.

As I don't see whether you paint 1miau's profile or he paint your profile, I'd say you both are still fine and don't deserved to get further action.

I doubt very much that all the DTs that trust 1miau are going to change as happened in the case of Ratimov because of what is exposed here.

In any case I think this section is missing a thread that is like:

Is a troll like digaran fit to get paid for trolling having 6 red tags?

What happens is that I am not going to open it because I suppose it would reopen old wounds with his current campaign manager but it is difficult to understand that case.

If digaran was less aggressive, a little bit better reasoned, and less of a troll - all of which I think he is capable of if it weren't for the fact that their trustworthiness was ruined for not entirely trade related things, then maybe he wouldn't be that bad of a member. I've seen some of his posts that are on the better side, and they are good. He isn't purely a troll, some of his posts are of decent quality...and I am sure if he was not tarnished, he has the capability to be better.

As for you, Poker Player, it is not surprising that you are here to totally agree that 1miau deserves to continue to be a DT1 member, and have completely overlooked the compelling points and evidence provided by the OP...and in addition, have started your presence in this topic by shifting focus to digaran instead of addressing the OP and the actual point of discussion. I have noticed you obviously and subtly defending 1miau multiple times in the past, and now.

To address the topic in some way.

mikeywith is a totally rational person from what I have seen, and I believe that if any other member (like myself) acts or talks the way that 1miau has in this and in other threads, then they would be distrusted by many and maybe even scarred with negative feedback, even though it's not trade related.

I think that's a problem, alongside the obvious problem highlighted in the OP and the on-topic posts.

[mikeywith]

I doubt very much that all the DTs that trust 1miau are going to change as happened in the case of Ratimov because of what is exposed here.

That is not the goal anyway, but this thread will serve its purpose, 1miau now realizes that his political involvement in DT has been exposed, he will most likely stop doing that, he would use the trust system the way it is supposed to be used, just like any grown up person who cares about the community more than his personal political drama.

In other words, many people will stop being afraid of debating political topics with him because he won't be able to punish them.

Of course, if he continues with his behavior, he will eventually be removed, the forum history is full of examples, it does not matter how popular you are, when your personal feelings get the best of you -- you end up out of DT.

Also, we have a particular case in hand, this is not the best place to discuss other members.

[1miau]

Interesting that mr hypocrisy Ben Codie is also joining the discussion to give his biased feedback after his appearance in "Advertised services and participants in a paid sig campaign"

You might have noticed that your recent case about your Signature campaign hypocrisy doesnt has anything to do with DT? I'm not surprised at all because it just shows that the things I've pointed out in that topic are pretty valid about your campaign hypocrisy.

Of course, if he continues with his behavior, he will eventually be removed, the forum history is full of examples, it does not matter how popular you are, when your personal feelings get the best of you -- you end up out of DT.

Once again, a bunch of threats from you against me, as you would decide the entire DT decision... Luckily, you are not the one to decide what happens in DT as it's a decentralized System and your idiotic attempt will backfire.
Thanks for showing your true face to everyone.

Here you go, lets expose your malicious dirt campaign: mikeywith needs to grow a thicker skin when it comes to DT issues. Maybe the known trolls will comment there to side with you again...

In other words, many people will stop being afraid of debating political topics with him because he won't be able to punish them.

No one is "punished", you just can’t face criticism and to cover this up, you claim to get "punished" or "oppressed".
Propaganda pushers always need to rely on the "victim card", that they are "oppressed", "intimidated" or "punished" because that’s all they can do due to a lack of their arguments, due to the fact how ridiculous and obvious their propaganda lies are, so of course, they will play the "victim card".
Here on the forum and also in real life, this same tactic is applied in Germany by our 3rd Reich legitimizing asshats. They are always playing the victim card. That's all they can do.

Just read how often you are using the accusation, that these propaganda pushers would be "oppressed", "intimidated" or "punished". They are not "oppressed", "intimidated" or "punished". They simply can’t face any criticism or pushback for their actions. They just want to offload their propaganda in the forum without any criticism or accountability for their actions. Of course, it’s allowed (and even recommended) to oppose such a behavior.
So: no one is "punished", people claiming this just can’t face criticism!