mak013
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April 20, 2024, 06:43:05 AM |
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if somebody wants to selfexclude from Fairlay, i could buy their old account from them (its anonymous anyways, only email and password, which can be changed).
WIN - WIN
It sounds funny but it is really the way to self-exclude yourself. Of course it don`t help, if someone wants to continue gambling - there are lots of casinos, where anybody can register(possible with some restrictions) with the same games, but if someone decides to stop - it can motivate at least. PS. I don`t recommend anybody to but or sell accounts, it is only your decision.
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peter0425
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 2828
Merit: 458
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
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April 20, 2024, 07:48:39 AM |
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I personally don't see staying away from gambling as something that requires too much help efforts or advice as long as the individual involved make up their mind to gamble within the set rules and limits, this is very important because everything starts and ends with the gamblers not the casino or anyone else. That's true, everyone makes their decision individually of becoming a gambler and choose their desiring platform for that, in which in all of these process, no one enforces any decision making process on a gambler, so they are expected to also make an effective use of the gambling avenue for their own good as well as considering gambling in the normal and appropriate manner that suite their standard without complaining. being in gambling is a personal choice either being lured by others or on their own the thing is none is forcing one to gamble but it is a free choice so in all cases gambling cannot be blamed but themselves . I myself once become an active gambler and almost become addicted but I manage to get out of that and now a healthy living and with small attitude of gambling.
Anyone who is looking for another way to play and be happy because they are free to do so , what should always be done is to find a way not to become Decapitated or fall into Addiction because that does become a major problem for the player and his family.
agree, we can enjoy and do anything but never drag yourself into addiction . Absolutely mate in the world of gambling it's our choices if we gonna try and enter the world of gambling or we keept watching . In the end, those people who are made Their choice that they will enter into the world of gambling then they are also choosing thier path into addiction, maybe not all but some of the gamblers nowadys can't control their emotions and They don't have discipline and that's the reason why they fall into addiction and once it is happen then a lot of circumstances ik Life that they must face. because this is the reason of Online gambling that many become more addicted nowadays than just going to offline casino , Online casino is easily be accessed and gamblers can play as much as they can without a need to show others of their gambling activities .
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Russlenat
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April 20, 2024, 12:11:29 PM |
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if somebody wants to selfexclude from Fairlay, i could buy their old account from them (its anonymous anyways, only email and password, which can be changed).
WIN - WIN
It sounds funny but it is really the way to self-exclude yourself. Of course it don`t help, if someone wants to continue gambling - there are lots of casinos, where anybody can register(possible with some restrictions) with the same games, but if someone decides to stop - it can motivate at least. PS. I don`t recommend anybody to but or sell accounts, it is only your decision. I find it the same way, self-exclude doesn't help at all, it's just a decoration of a casino but it still depend on the will of the gamblers. It's true, we can self exclude ourselves in a certain casino but since create an account is very easy, we can always try playing in other casinos. I think the solution of addiction is stopping gambling, not fooling around ourselves that would only result to bigger problems. However, I don't blame the casino for having that kind of feature, becasue it's better than nothing at all, although it's not really too helpful.
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EarnOnVictor
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April 20, 2024, 12:33:46 PM |
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if somebody wants to selfexclude from Fairlay, i could buy their old account from them (its anonymous anyways, only email and password, which can be changed).
WIN - WIN
Unfortunately, you are only looking for the account to buy and not helping anyone at all. And the fact that you bought the account doesn't stop the psychological addiction of the gambler which is the context here, so your suggestion is not even good, but selfish. No one will sell the Fairlay account and will not have access to many other gambling sites and even use the proceeds of the money from you to gamble. What has that changed if you would be fair about this? Needless to say, Fiarlay is not even that serious gambling site but more of a predictive site, except for the added sports kind of betting exchange.
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Jody.Drummer
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April 20, 2024, 03:32:46 PM |
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Absolutely mate in the world of gambling it's our choices if we gonna try and enter the world of gambling or we keept watching . In the end, those people who are made Their choice that they will enter into the world of gambling then they are also choosing thier path into addiction, maybe not all but some of the gamblers nowadys can't control their emotions and They don't have discipline and that's the reason why they fall into addiction and once it is happen then a lot of circumstances ik Life that they must face.
because this is the reason of Online gambling that many become more addicted nowadays than just going to offline casino , Online casino is easily be accessed and gamblers can play as much as they can without a need to show others of their gambling activities . If we talk about the comparison of online and physical casinos, then yes, recently the online type of gambling is much more popular and the number of gambling population is increasing as time goes by and of course the reason is that you have also said above that the online type of gambling has certain advantages. where these advantages are indeed something that gamblers need, such as the ease you said in terms of accessing gambling where all gamblers are free to play or gamble whenever and wherever they want if they have the money, while when you are in a physical casino then maybe You only have time to gamble when the casino shop is open or simply when the casino shop is closed then you won't be able to gamble and may have to wait until the casino shop opens again. This means that in terms of convenience, it is clear that online casinos are much easier to access and reach as long as you have a smartphone or laptop and money as an intermediary tool for gambling, and with this convenience, most gamblers feel free to gamble because there is absolutely nothing limits for gambling in online casinos, therefore this is one of the reasons why the level of addicted gamblers is increasing and this is also the reason why we must really have management or management and planning that leads to many good limits when we are involved in this type of online gambling because only you can control everything, but unfortunately most of the gamblers involved there cannot control their gambling activities and instead they are controlled by gambling so it is only natural that in the end they experience many bad impacts.
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bitbunnny
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2912
Merit: 1068
WOLF.BET - Provably Fair Crypto Casino
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April 20, 2024, 05:50:39 PM |
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if somebody wants to selfexclude from Fairlay, i could buy their old account from them (its anonymous anyways, only email and password, which can be changed).
WIN - WIN
It sounds funny but it is really the way to self-exclude yourself. Of course it don`t help, if someone wants to continue gambling - there are lots of casinos, where anybody can register(possible with some restrictions) with the same games, but if someone decides to stop - it can motivate at least. PS. I don`t recommend anybody to but or sell accounts, it is only your decision. I find it the same way, self-exclude doesn't help at all, it's just a decoration of a casino but it still depend on the will of the gamblers. It's true, we can self exclude ourselves in a certain casino but since create an account is very easy, we can always try playing in other casinos. I think the solution of addiction is stopping gambling, not fooling around ourselves that would only result to bigger problems. However, I don't blame the casino for having that kind of feature, becasue it's better than nothing at all, although it's not really too helpful. I agre, it's a nice feature but actually doesn't help to addicted gambler. It's all in the head and strong will, in fact that someone is willing to admit a problem and not trying to foul yourself. That maybe might help to more selfi disciplined gamblers.
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Hamphser
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 2604
Merit: 338
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
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April 20, 2024, 06:48:32 PM |
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if somebody wants to selfexclude from Fairlay, i could buy their old account from them (its anonymous anyways, only email and password, which can be changed).
WIN - WIN
It sounds funny but it is really the way to self-exclude yourself. Of course it don`t help, if someone wants to continue gambling - there are lots of casinos, where anybody can register(possible with some restrictions) with the same games, but if someone decides to stop - it can motivate at least. PS. I don`t recommend anybody to but or sell accounts, it is only your decision. I find it the same way, self-exclude doesn't help at all, it's just a decoration of a casino but it still depend on the will of the gamblers. It's true, we can self exclude ourselves in a certain casino but since create an account is very easy, we can always try playing in other casinos. I think the solution of addiction is stopping gambling, not fooling around ourselves that would only result to bigger problems. However, I don't blame the casino for having that kind of feature, becasue it's better than nothing at all, although it's not really too helpful. I agre, it's a nice feature but actually doesn't help to addicted gambler. It's all in the head and strong will, in fact that someone is willing to admit a problem and not trying to foul yourself. That maybe might help to more selfi disciplined gamblers. You wont really be needing any feature or whatever exclusions that a site must have, just like you have said that everything would really be basing or depending on the control you do have or self discipline because if you do fail on doing so, no matter how many exclusions or features available there's no way that you could really be able to make yourself that completely stop on doing gambling. You would really be having that kind of problem on the time that you cant really be able to control yourself. Exclusions could neither be available or would really be that something that you could really be able to request on. This is why if you do find yourself that being impulsive then it would really be better that you should really be that careful or totally completely stopping gambling for a while. Dont make yourself that playing on constant manner. You cant really that make yourself be able to stop not until that you do bust it all.
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Dewi Aries
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2870
Merit: 1092
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
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April 21, 2024, 10:15:18 PM |
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I agre, it's a nice feature but actually doesn't help to addicted gambler. It's all in the head and strong will, in fact that someone is willing to admit a problem and not trying to foul yourself. That maybe might help to more selfi disciplined gamblers.
You wont really be needing any feature or whatever exclusions that a site must have, just like you have said that everything would really be basing or depending on the control you do have or self discipline because if you do fail on doing so, no matter how many exclusions or features available there's no way that you could really be able to make yourself that completely stop on doing gambling. You would really be having that kind of problem on the time that you cant really be able to control yourself. Exclusions could neither be available or would really be that something that you could really be able to request on. This is why if you do find yourself that being impulsive then it would really be better that you should really be that careful or totally completely stopping gambling for a while. Dont make yourself that playing on constant manner. You cant really that make yourself be able to stop not until that you do bust it all. True, it won't really be able to fully help gamblers to avoid the possibility of addiction or unsolicited actions because as you said above it all comes back to the gambler themselves which means that if for example they are one of those gamblers who are obsessed with gambling or those who gamble in the wrong way then they still won't take advantage of the exclusion feature because they will consider that the feature is not in accordance with their wishes which they only want to continue using their time to gamble. I think the scenario may be similar to addicted gamblers where they are immune to suggestions and criticism, they will not listen to them and will continue to ignore something that does not suit them, so even though for example the purpose of the feature is to minimize gamblers from entering the addiction phase, but still in the end all decisions are in their hands which will make them free in terms of making a choice even though the choice will only lead them to a bad situation. So actually the key to not ending up addicted is always in themselves, in the sense that if for example they can maintain their gambling involvement properly such as always prioritizing limits and self-control then without such features they will definitely do many things to prevent themselves from falling into addiction.
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Casdinyard
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April 21, 2024, 10:41:07 PM |
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You can watch this video from 07:20 if you want to skip on the other parts: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxty2XhTwVIBasically it's very simple. You take a currency that requires 21 days for staking/unstaking, then you deposit this amount in Atomic Wallet, stake it and then you can't gamble with the crypto you're holding. The locking (staking) is done with one single click of a button, and it's practically speaking, equivalent to activation of self-exclusion on an online gambling site with a click of a button (and yet not all sites offer it unfortunately). For example, you stake (lock) $200 of your crypto, and that's all crypto available for you - then you can't play/gamble/risk it for at least 21 days ... do it 15 times a year time after time, and you would be excluded for a long time. The only drawback with this method is Atomic doesn't offer this on USDT so some "gamblers" might not like this idea because they trust stablecoins more than other crypto coins, but this is FYI. I see this working and all that shit but I have two concerns regarding this shit. First off, why in the hell would you do this? To stop yourself from gambling? Dude, if the only thing that's keeping you from gambling is the lack of access to your funds then you probably need more than just this atomix wallet feature to rid yourself of your brewing addiction to gambling, you might wanna look into more radical yet effective options, like idk, admitting yourself to a rehabilitation center, cause honestly, if you're already addicted nothing's gonna stop you from gaining access to your money. Have you heard of a crackhead who doesn't smoke crack on days that he doesn't have money? He hustles for it, he makes sure he gets his fix no matter what. The same thing can be said for gambling addicts, you can put out the most elaborate cheese maze known to man to take their money away from them but they'll tear down the walls if it means they can gamble for a day. Another would be, what makes this different than other staking mechanisms in the market, suppose to say I don't want to do this and I instead opted for Binance's staking, am I gonna be doing something wrong? Or if I put out my money on a stake pool that has more than just 21 hours of lockin period. Is it gonna be bad? Why not just put your money in there for a whole year instead of doing this rinse and repeat typa shit for 15 times?
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mak013
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April 22, 2024, 01:57:58 PM |
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It sounds funny but it is really the way to self-exclude yourself. Of course it don`t help, if someone wants to continue gambling - there are lots of casinos, where anybody can register(possible with some restrictions) with the same games, but if someone decides to stop - it can motivate at least.
PS. I don`t recommend anybody to but or sell accounts, it is only your decision.
I find it the same way, self-exclude doesn't help at all, it's just a decoration of a casino but it still depend on the will of the gamblers. It's true, we can self exclude ourselves in a certain casino but since create an account is very easy, we can always try playing in other casinos. I think the solution of addiction is stopping gambling, not fooling around ourselves that would only result to bigger problems. However, I don't blame the casino for having that kind of feature, becasue it's better than nothing at all, although it's not really too helpful. It is only your decision to use such opportunity or not. It is just the tool. And of course it is good that there is such opportunity, even if i don`t believe in it. May be it can help someone. But the way to sell account or delete it looks more serious - you need to find new casino. It is not a problem of course, but it may be uncomfortable.
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danadc
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April 22, 2024, 06:09:28 PM |
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It sounds funny but it is really the way to self-exclude yourself. Of course it don`t help, if someone wants to continue gambling - there are lots of casinos, where anybody can register(possible with some restrictions) with the same games, but if someone decides to stop - it can motivate at least.
PS. I don`t recommend anybody to but or sell accounts, it is only your decision.
I find it the same way, self-exclude doesn't help at all, it's just a decoration of a casino but it still depend on the will of the gamblers. It's true, we can self exclude ourselves in a certain casino but since create an account is very easy, we can always try playing in other casinos. I think the solution of addiction is stopping gambling, not fooling around ourselves that would only result to bigger problems. However, I don't blame the casino for having that kind of feature, becasue it's better than nothing at all, although it's not really too helpful. It is only your decision to use such opportunity or not. It is just the tool. And of course it is good that there is such opportunity, even if i don`t believe in it. May be it can help someone. But the way to sell account or delete it looks more serious - you need to find new casino. It is not a problem of course, but it may be uncomfortable. Do I understand what the problem is with selling a Casino account that has already been worked on? Is it because they are VIP? I think that is something that does not make much sense , something that I value a lot is that it is very ugly to buy something that has not been Worked on for us , it is like living off the sweat of Others , or maybe I am just one person I has always looked for things on her own and I prefer to get my things by the Sweat of my brow , that is Something I have learned to do Since I was little. There are People who don't give it Importance or it could be that I am a very Conservative Person.
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Hamphser
Sr. Member
Offline
Activity: 2604
Merit: 338
Vave.com - Crypto Casino
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April 22, 2024, 06:48:12 PM |
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True, it won't really be able to fully help gamblers to avoid the possibility of addiction or unsolicited actions because as you said above it all comes back to the gambler themselves which means that if for example they are one of those gamblers who are obsessed with gambling or those who gamble in the wrong way then they still won't take advantage of the exclusion feature because they will consider that the feature is not in accordance with their wishes which they only want to continue using their time to gamble. I think the scenario may be similar to addicted gamblers where they are immune to suggestions and criticism, they will not listen to them and will continue to ignore something that does not suit them, so even though for example the purpose of the feature is to minimize gamblers from entering the addiction phase, but still in the end all decisions are in their hands which will make them free in terms of making a choice even though the choice will only lead them to a bad situation. So actually the key to not ending up addicted is always in themselves, in the sense that if for example they can maintain their gambling involvement properly such as always prioritizing limits and self-control then without such features they will definitely do many things to prevent themselves from falling into addiction. Majority of us wont really care and i highly doubt that all of us wont really be tending to mind about this kind of feature this gambling site has if ever its really that available. You would really be looking up with these things on the time that you would really be finding yourself on such tough condition on which we know that this is something that will really be that a normal action or approach to have. Actually just like been said that not all platforms does have this but just been said that quitting or having a break doesnt really need any feature for you to do so on which it would really be just that enough for you to be able to stop if you wanted to but of course it would really be basing up on how good you are when you do have on such controlling yourself and not really just that tolerating on the current emotion that you are really that feeling into.
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mak013
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April 23, 2024, 04:02:01 PM |
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It is only your decision to use such opportunity or not. It is just the tool. And of course it is good that there is such opportunity, even if i don`t believe in it. May be it can help someone. But the way to sell account or delete it looks more serious - you need to find new casino. It is not a problem of course, but it may be uncomfortable.
Do I understand what the problem is with selling a Casino account that has already been worked on? Is it because they are VIP? I think that is something that does not make much sense , something that I value a lot is that it is very ugly to buy something that has not been Worked on for us , it is like living off the sweat of Others , or maybe I am just one person I has always looked for things on her own and I prefer to get my things by the Sweat of my brow , that is Something I have learned to do Since I was little. There are People who don't give it Importance or it could be that I am a very Conservative Person. I don`t know, i never interested in it. I don`t recommend anybody to buy or sell accounts, but if someone wants to stop gambling - it may be a good decision for him - he break his past with selling it. I don`t believe that it can help, but may be someone need something like symbol that there is no way to his old habits.
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alastantiger
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April 23, 2024, 08:23:30 PM |
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I don`t know, i never interested in it. I don`t recommend anybody to buy or sell accounts, but if someone wants to stop gambling - it may be a good decision for him - he break his past with selling it. I don`t believe that it can help, but may be someone need something like symbol that there is no way to his old habits.
I do not recommend it as well and I don't believe that it helps with stopping gambling addiction. I believe that quitting gambling addiction is complex and it doesn't end automatically if the individual sells their account. A gambler may have multiple accounts and the wait period for selling them off may cause the person to go back into it. Self exclusion for a period of time or better still asking the casino to completely close down the account is better than selling it off. And if the gambling addict wants a long term solution, I recommend seeing a therapist that will assist them in identifying and dealing with the so the underly causes.
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zarintasnim
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April 23, 2024, 11:13:33 PM |
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I don’t think that it helps to prevent gambling addiction. Those who play casinos have multiple accounts and if they have to wait to sell them they may get back game. Self-exclusion for a time even better asking the casino to close the account completely is preferable to selling. You can also find a Self-exclusion tool for those who want to take a break from gambling. To self-exclude from a gambling site, find the self-exclusion page on the site and fill out the form. Remember that self-exclusion is not foolproof and it's important to seek help from a professional if you're struggling with a gambling addiction.
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Kavelj22
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 1932
Merit: 1539
🔃EN>>AR Translator🔃
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April 23, 2024, 11:31:56 PM |
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I don`t know, i never interested in it. I don`t recommend anybody to buy or sell accounts, but if someone wants to stop gambling - it may be a good decision for him - he break his past with selling it. I don`t believe that it can help, but may be someone need something like symbol that there is no way to his old habits.
It would be good if someone decided to end their experience with excessive gambling that had harmed them. I agree with you that a complete break from gambling platforms would also be good evidence that the person will never want to return to his behavioral addiction again. But this cannot be an argument to justify the same person selling his accounts on those platforms he used to use. Giving up gambling will not eliminate the fact that these accounts contain important personal information, even if it can be changed. This is a very dangerous step that could lead to undesirable or dangerous results that may include criminal prosecution if the buyer misuses the account and the platform is forced to use criminal prosecution.
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delfastTions
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2898
Merit: 1558
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April 24, 2024, 05:33:56 AM |
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There are quite a lot of people who are completely unable to do what is called “think ahead.” Such people often live one day at a time and do not think at all about what will happen to them or their families or their children tomorrow, in a week or in a month. It is precisely from such people that real gambling addicts at the stage of the disease can most likely emerge, and this process of very active participation in gambling for such people can generally end tragically for the player and for his family. I think that the overwhelming number of players are precisely these types of people. And for them, gambling is practically safe and enjoyable.
Some individuals ĺive a very carefree lifestyle, they don't even care about the effect of their lifestyle on others, so far the satisfy their desire. And if the person is a very addicted gambler most times it's very difficult for them to listen to advise. And that why it's been advised on a regular that people should minimise their gambling habits so as not to get addicted because active participation in gambling equals more trouble. It's almost very difficult to advise an addicted gambler, especially those individuals who live such a carefree lifestyle because to them, everything they're doing is perfectly okay and they don't care what the next person thinks or feels and the fact that they've made gambling their passion makes it more difficult to quit, those are the type of individual that would take loans to go into gambling or even sale valuable properties. Unfortunately, the nature and behavior of such irresponsible and reckless players cannot be changed. At some point in the life of such a person, his actions can be completely irrational, spontaneous and even sometimes catastrophic. Unfortunately for all the close people around him, such a person creates a lot of problems that might not have existed. It gets to the point that many even close people begin to think how much their lives would improve and become comfortable if such a reckless relative disappeared somewhere altogether. Well, of course, he wouldn’t die, but, for example, he would go somewhere far away, so as not to see him anymore. And sometimes such a person actually leaves somewhere and begins to again create problems for the people around him in a new place. But by the way, often this person himself believes that he behaves normally and his actions are only his personal business. In fact, this is the highest degree of manifestation of selfishness and narcissism. And it’s true that such people exist in life. And it’s even better not to have anything in common with them at all, because in any case you will be to blame for all his troubles.
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mak013
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April 24, 2024, 05:51:16 AM |
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I don`t know, i never interested in it. I don`t recommend anybody to buy or sell accounts, but if someone wants to stop gambling - it may be a good decision for him - he break his past with selling it. I don`t believe that it can help, but may be someone need something like symbol that there is no way to his old habits.
I do not recommend it as well and I don't believe that it helps with stopping gambling addiction. I believe that quitting gambling addiction is complex and it doesn't end automatically if the individual sells their account. A gambler may have multiple accounts and the wait period for selling them off may cause the person to go back into it. Self exclusion for a period of time or better still asking the casino to completely close down the account is better than selling it off. And if the gambling addict wants a long term solution, I recommend seeing a therapist that will assist them in identifying and dealing with the so the underly causes. I don`t believe in self exclusion. Ask casino to close the account would be more honestly and he willn`t has any problems with this account later. But, as i said, i can just suggest how it works - i never had such problems and can`t shate my own experience. I don`t know, i never interested in it. I don`t recommend anybody to buy or sell accounts, but if someone wants to stop gambling - it may be a good decision for him - he break his past with selling it. I don`t believe that it can help, but may be someone need something like symbol that there is no way to his old habits.
It would be good if someone decided to end their experience with excessive gambling that had harmed them. I agree with you that a complete break from gambling platforms would also be good evidence that the person will never want to return to his behavioral addiction again. But this cannot be an argument to justify the same person selling his accounts on those platforms he used to use. Giving up gambling will not eliminate the fact that these accounts contain important personal information, even if it can be changed. This is a very dangerous step that could lead to undesirable or dangerous results that may include criminal prosecution if the buyer misuses the account and the platform is forced to use criminal prosecution. You`re right, someone who ready to buy it 100% has some problems with casino or wants to cheat it. The best way is to delete account. But someone can choose such a way to get some money back and to know that his gambling helps someone else. It is strange logic but i think that it is possible. When i change casino, i just leave account without money or delete it.
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shield132
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April 24, 2024, 08:37:34 AM |
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You can ask your ISP to block casinos but I believe not every of them will be included in their database and even if they block, you can still use VPN and access them. If you block yourself from certain casinos, you can still create a new one, even if it's a non-anonymous casino because many casinos don't ask you to submit KYC immediately, it happens over time. You can also ask your close friend or relative to create an account for you. There is no real way online to 100% exclude yourself from gambling, let alone anonymous gambling sites. Everyone has to work on their willpower. If you don't have willpower, you will not be able to self-exclude yourself from anything.
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LUCKMCFLY
Legendary
Offline
Activity: 2590
Merit: 1882
Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
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April 24, 2024, 03:02:26 PM |
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The primary thing that we do have in mind is on the time that we would really be having that kind of mindset and beliefs that we can do all we want since its our money that we are using. Its none others business on how we would really be gonna using it up because it would really be just that a common approach on which you would really be thinking up that you could really be a winner in gambling. Self exclusions is something pointless or useless if you are that an individual whose really that having that kind of positive views towards gambling and believing that you could really make money into it. Exclusions are useless just because you do believe that you could really take up that kind of advantage but on the time that you are already getting addicted then this is where you would really be trying out to find up on the time that you do struggle on quitting or stopping gambling. You wouldnt really be able to see its importance until its not there.
Well, I have seen some cases here in the forum where they say that when a person excludes themselves from a casino it is because they have previously been addicted people or players and those people have been with a certain point of view where basically they have been very compromised by their addiction and since you have overcome it and since you don't want to regret it again, you may be tempted to play and do it. If they win or lose, they don't want to fall again and that's why they sneak through a casino exclusion, I see it as something heroic for those types of people, for those who try it it may not be useless, and if they can't achieve it it still is. more, but I give them credit because at least they tried.
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