These new EFFICIENT x11 algos everyone is talking about ?? BULLSHIT or real?

[slapper]

Whatever happened to BeeCoin? I heard that was THE shit.

[brooklynite]

What he's asking is while you are mining x11 on your 'deliberately inefficient' software and GPUs, are there already those out there with optimized/tweaked hardware and software mining much more than the rest of you right now?

I'm not sure of the answer, but it's an uncomfortable question and I wouldn't be surprised if there are.

Of course there are miners that mine twice as fast but not available to public. Maybe one day they will sell the license for the fast miner, right now they are using it themselves. That's why CGMiner is such a great piece of software, it was optimized to the max and open source. Too bad it stopped updating for Scrypt and The develer Never came back to update it for Scrypt-N.

One way to check for this is to run two, three or four instances and see if the sum of all four exceeds the single miner running. Can someone do that?

[cryptohunter]

Whatever happened to BeeCoin? I heard that was THE shit.

That is relevant in what way to a discussion on x11 you silly girl?  when i see people trying to distract from the core of the conversation i know they feel uncomfortable ...... although how you've made it this far with your obvious brain damage i can only imagine.

I support all FAIR coins that just happened to be the fairest/cleanest launch of any coin i've seen yet. Anyway i am not hear to talk about beecoin with you, if you want to pm me i can perhaps give you a few pointers on starting a fair coin if that's what you're after. If you want to check my history you will notice i support a lot of fair coins i am not against all new coins. Sadly the fair ones do worse than the scams since the scams have motivated devs that want to cash out their instamine/premine

Get back to cleaning those toilets and quit wasting time here.

However if you're a real slapper i'd certainly be interested in meeting up and furthering your education in person.

[digitalindustry]

Looking at your post history, it looks like you may already know the answer.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=92110;sa=showPosts;start=0

But it is fun to spread shit on a forum all day.

I am asking a genuine question.... the answers given so far are not conclusive.

Fucking noob trolls butting in with their bullshit answers. If you have nothing to add GFTO

If x11 has something to add here let's here about it.......or else let's get rid of the x11 myth now.

They are all cPoW Complex Proof of work, and yes its probably the closest to " fair" as you can get.

When LTC was released it was common knowledge that a GPU miner was out a lot earlier than people knew, this time around we have a GPU miner with a more optimization that has to be done.

The Power usage will probably still be good at "full" optimization.

Making cPoW the likely next contender for the largest part of the market , the Quark algo acts in exactly the same way as X11 as they are both " cPoW" .

im sure there will be more as well , and thats the idea.

[dboylc]

Looking at your post history, it looks like you may already know the answer.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=92110;sa=showPosts;start=0

But it is fun to spread shit on a forum all day.

I am asking a genuine question.... the answers given so far are not conclusive.

Fucking noob trolls butting in with their bullshit answers. If you have nothing to add GFTO

If x11 has something to add here let's here about it.......or else let's get rid of the x11 myth now.

They are all cPoW Complex Proof of work, and yes its probably the closest to " fair" as you can get.

When LTC was released it was common knowledge that a GPU miner was out a lot earlier than people knew, this time around we have a GPU miner with a more optimization that has to be done.

The Power usage will probably still be good at "full" optimization.

Making cPoW the likely next contender for the largest part of the market , the Quark algo acts in exactly the same way as X11 as they are both " cPoW" .

im sure there will be more as well , and thats the idea.

QRK is better than X11?are you sure?just for 3 random algo round?
however, "X11" is a fashion name, and more and more people accept it, that's the truth.but IMO, it's not very hard to make X11 ASIC,but will it worth doing?Need 11 diff asic to a single algo? and I think It's easy to change by a hard fork, X12 X13 X14 etc?
X11 may be the new beginning of GPU mining.
and ,  i am a miner ,  I like X11 cuz it's very cool on my card!

[eltito]

Probably better to focus on the question of X11's value rather than the Glen Beck-ish "I'm just asking questions here" conspiracy stuff.  X11 is open source, as far as I know.  Pick it apart and see for yourselves.  That's the whole point of open source, yes?

The DRK dev has never given any indication that he's anything but straight up and even makes his real identity known.  That's not proof he's not doing something nefarious with X11, of course, but really, what proof can he offer that would be conclusive enough?

If there is any evidence of malfeasance, by all means bring it to the table.  Have someone build a more efficient miner, if it's possible.  But until there's one shred of evidence to cast doubt, the conspiracy bit doesn't add anything to the discussion IMHO.  

I hate that stupid ass acronym "FUD", but this is pretty much the definition.

[IloveAnonCoin]

Believe or not, you will not get the real answer from this question because there are lots of X11 lover.

[cryptowho]

but topics like this help stop some of the FUD

[digitalindustry]

Looking at your post history, it looks like you may already know the answer.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=profile;u=92110;sa=showPosts;start=0

But it is fun to spread shit on a forum all day.

I am asking a genuine question.... the answers given so far are not conclusive.

Fucking noob trolls butting in with their bullshit answers. If you have nothing to add GFTO

If x11 has something to add here let's here about it.......or else let's get rid of the x11 myth now.

They are all cPoW Complex Proof of work, and yes its probably the closest to " fair" as you can get.

When LTC was released it was common knowledge that a GPU miner was out a lot earlier than people knew, this time around we have a GPU miner with a more optimization that has to be done.

The Power usage will probably still be good at "full" optimization.

Making cPoW the likely next contender for the largest part of the market , the Quark algo acts in exactly the same way as X11 as they are both " cPoW" .

im sure there will be more as well , and thats the idea.

QRK is better than X11?are you sure?just for 3 random algo round?
however, "X11" is a fashion name, and more and more people accept it, that's the truth.but IMO, it's not very hard to make X11 ASIC,but will it worth doing?Need 11 diff asic to a single algo? and I think It's easy to change by a hard fork, X12 X13 X14 etc?
X11 may be the new beginning of GPU mining.
and ,  i am a miner ,  I like X11 cuz it's very cool on my card!

Hmmm

I think you are somewhat confused, i never said one was better than the other they are all cPoW;  X11 6hash X15 X "whatever" it actually is all a similar system.

The same miner will basically mine all of them.

[MinerP]

good read but still no answers...  

i have read that forking a scrypt coin other to another algo (eg. n-scrpyt, x11) is a very risky procedure and
could cause mass confusion and easily cripple a coin. devs of scrypt coins know this and probably would not
fork over to another algo. if this is true could they be spreading rumors themselves? knowing that there
are other algos much better than scrypt they could be purposely down playing x11 or whatever other algo out
there. just a thought.

'Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura' will continue after these messages.

[Boyer]

It is not difficult to find out that the thread starter cryptohunter is really negative all the time. Just look around at his previous posts. I agree that the topic is interesting, but it makes me ill to just see him trying to spread fear and shit all around this forum. His tone is not neutral, indicating that he want people to make panic moves.

good read but still no answers... 

i have read that forking a scrypt coin other to another algo (eg. n-scrpyt, x11) is a very risky procedure and
could cause mass confusion and easily cripple a coin. devs of scrypt coins know this and probably would not
fork other to another algo. if this is true they could they be spreading rumors themselves? knowing that there
are other algos much better than scrypt they could be purposely down playing x11 or whatever other algo out
there. just a thought.

'Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura' will continue after these messages.

I agree with you. If you start a thread using a neutral tone and asking a question, fair. In this case the thread starter already have his opinion about x11 and just want others to share it with him. He is not asking a question, he just just trying to make it fail. Who knows why he is doing that.

Anyways I'm still interested in neutral answers with good fact, not speculations like the thread starter.

[AlexGR]

1) The algorithm is probably less ram intensive and it probably has plenty of room for optimization. That's understandable because the GPU miner was launched as a necessity in a short timetable, after DRK community gave a bounty to have a GPU miner developed quickly to counteract the possible existence of secret GPU miners.

Personally I tried doing #pragma unroll and #pragma unroll 1 (disable unrolling) tests to check the performance on my 5830 on the 15 sets of "for i =" of darkcoin.cl.

I could get around 5% more hashrate by #pragma unroll 1 on the fourth "for i" (947kh vs 939) and a #pragma unroll 1 with the 8th "for i" (979 vs 939kh). Interestingly if I #pragma unroll 1 on both the fourth and the 8th, speed goes lower than 939, so I kept the 8th.

Thing is, the unrollings don't always work the same on series 5xxx and, say, series 7 cards. I've also gained a couple percent on scrypt too: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=528062.msg5863333#msg5863333 by playing with unrollings but it doesn't translate to other cards well, so I wouldn't say scrypt was intentionally unoptimized.

2) So far as everyone is using the same program and only a few people (<1%) use something more optimized, everyone is better off since everyone is burning less electricity. Given the extremely low profitability right now of most altcoins, electric cost is a problem.

3) Having >1 hashes is better for security in the long term. If say a hash is broken / proven unreliable, you have another 10 to go on. If however your ONLY hash is broken = game over for a coin.

[flipme]

There is a rumor that there are primed mining x11 miner that seclusive people are mining away right now . yes

Thats a rumor spread by the ASIC MAFIA.

If you'd bother to have a look at what your GPU is doing with the ATI utility, you'd see that its running at 100% with X11.
The fact that it doesn't get so warm is due to the lower memory footprint and the overall lower cache utilization.

[ibfragalot]

I'm not convinced either way on this question yet and I'm open to all info.

That said, my current opinion is this... I don't think it's as simple as "less heat/power than scrypt = inefficient". I think that's a totally reasonable and logical conclusion for a person with limited knowledge (like me, and most of us) But that's the problem. We don't know enough about any of this to make an educated assessment. We're just speculating based on... well, not much.

So here's my speculation - As a person who has mined X11 for about a week now, I can tell you my GPUs are getting stressed. They are also getting hot. One overheated last night and I had to shutdown for a bit. My desktop is slow, the same as when using high intensity in scrypt. The only difference I've noticed is my power use has gone from 700+watt to around 410watt. In a country with high electricity prices, that's great for me. That said, it varies. Sometimes goes as high as 420.

At the end of the day I think SpeedDemon is right...

you would need a programmer and computer engineer to debunk it or verify it.

If scrypt did'nt generate so much heat and use so much power would we be questioning X11? No.

[vrm86]

As OP likes car examples I'd give another one: do you think that engine that consumes 50% more petrol and makes 50% more noise is obviously more efficient?

Also this:

I don't see where's a serious bottleneck or some conspiracy. Since X11 (and hefty, keccak and those others from sph-sgminer) is not memory hard, you're not stressing the memory controller, L2 caches and the ram chips.

You're used to scrypt, see it as a "reference" and say that others must not be optimized due to low power use and thermals. However, scrypt is the odd one out in the first place, a complete card fuck like Furmark or some videocard stress test.

Open your mind a bit guys, scrypt is not a final achievement of mining technology, even if you would like to.

 

[ibfragalot]

Best answer to the X11 question so far is from n00bnoxius in another thread:

Also anybody saying that the reason X11 is cooler and uses less power because the miner is inefficient are for the most part simply wrong. Chained algorithms by default will run cooler - there's a gap between each round of hashing that allows the GPU some breathing space. No doubt there is room for the miner to be improved as it's such a recent development, but it will simply NEVER hit the unbelievable power consumption of a single algo coin.

[AlexGR]

There is a rumor that there are primed mining x11 miner that seclusive people are mining away right now . yes

Thats a rumor spread by the ASIC MAFIA.

If you'd bother to have a look at what your GPU is doing with the ATI utility, you'd see that its running at 100% with X11.
The fact that it doesn't get so warm is due to the lower memory footprint and the overall lower cache utilization.

It's possible to have 100% GPU load and 1000kh in one instance, and 100% GPU load and 2000kh in another, more optimized one. The difference is that the code will be executed in less GPU cycles not that the GPU will be less loaded with work.

For example the first incarnation of the darkcoin miner gave me ~600-700kh. The second (sph-sgminer 4.1) gave me 900+. It was always 100% load, it's just that the optimized version did it better with the available GPU cycles.

[AlexGR]

Best answer to the X11 question so far is from n00bnoxius in another thread:

Also anybody saying that the reason X11 is cooler and uses less power because the miner is inefficient are for the most part simply wrong. Chained algorithms by default will run cooler - there's a gap between each round of hashing that allows the GPU some breathing space. No doubt there is room for the miner to be improved as it's such a recent development, but it will simply NEVER hit the unbelievable power consumption of a single algo coin.

I like the answer too but the question I have is what is this gap? Why shouldn't the output of one cycle go straight to the next cycle of hashing as input with zero waiting? Does it go to main RAM first, and hence the bottleneck between cpu ram / gpu ram? If so could it all be done on the GPU instead of cpu-gpu-cpu-gpu (just speculating).

[whaSasd]

good read but still no answers...  

i have read that forking a scrypt coin other to another algo (eg. n-scrpyt, x11) is a very risky procedure and
could cause mass confusion and easily cripple a coin. devs of scrypt coins know this and probably would not
fork over to another algo. if this is true could they be spreading rumors themselves? knowing that there
are other algos much better than scrypt they could be purposely down playing x11 or whatever other algo out
there. just a thought.

'Conspiracy Theory with Jesse Ventura' will continue after these messages.

SPAcoin is crypt N now. Some devs do care about their coins. And yes it is a risky move, I'm not sure litecoin could pool this off. Maybe if they do it secretly and having some GPU farms ready to mine the coin on the new algo.

Is there mining software better than sgminer for X11? Even of there is they get like 10% edge.

Also saying that that scrypt N is more efficient that X11 because of a coin is pointless.

Who is against scrypt N and X11? ASIC miners...

Just like when a noob asks if it is late to get into mining. You'll see some douchebags saying it's way too late like that is going to deter the OP and other people to get into mining so they will make more money. Human nature man...hard to bypass that.

[MaGNeT]

SHA mining is running cooler than Scrypt on a GPU.

So Cryptohunter is saying it's not "optimized"?

Lol... No... Cryptohunter is seeing X11 as a threat... He probably has a few scrypt ASIC pre-orders...