[ANN] NiceHash.com - sell & buy hash rate cloud mining service / multipool

[bensam123]

They need to get rid of the ability to change requested GH as well. This is silly, there is an entire column of place holders right now on x15 operating at .05 GH when a hour ago they were operating at infinite or 4GH. This really fucks with the difficulty on coins as someone has obviously wrote a easy auto-script to decrease GH at a certain price when  difficulty goes up. Why is there even a API allowed for Nicehash? It just encourages manipulation and completely flat lines the market, much like microtransactions/arbitrage for normal coins. There is no investment here, it's just scripts wrecking prices.

And Posting this again:

There really needs to be more crossover between nicehash and westhash pools. Over the last week or so there has been one buyer running a script or spending a butt ton of time pushing everyone out of the x15 market simply by constantly changing their order and out bidding other people. Since there is so few miners on westhash, orders below them never get filled and despite their order having relatively little amount of bitcoin (to reduce cancellation fees) and ghash (so they only take the miners and not extra by having the pool auto-switch to them as most profitable) they can control the market. As soon as the other order leaves the market, they drop theirs down again. It starts all over again.

I assume it's automated as it seems to be going pretty much steady as long as I've watched the x15 market. This isn't good for nicehash, miners, or buyers.

I understand the idea of 'efficiency' by separating geographic locations, but I've been buying on nicehash using NA pools and it doesn't make THAT much of a difference. Since Nicehash is cloud based, it's entirely possible to sort miners based on their geographic location and appropriate them for a pool close to their location completely transparently to the buyers and the miners (such as a quick ping to the miner and the pool from two or three different geographic locations would locate the address approximately or with a IP lookup). Obviously there would be some cross-over, but since prices are already the same for both nicehash and westhash, it doesn't matter.

Whoever it is, is devastating the market though and solely controlling it. That obviously also influences prices on Nicehash.

I've read the 'reasoning' given already and the tiny little differences in prices due to going over the oceans is downright silly. When you have people wrecking the entire economy and you complain about a little bit of efficiency loss because your OCD demands it, it doesn't help anyone out. As I outlined above, the pools could take care of most of the differences between geographic locations by intelligently allocating miners to orders with a bit of automation behind the scenes. The rest would be a wash, but it wouldn't amount to anything significant.

Due to the amount of hashing power nicehash has under its thumb, the consequences of what is happening here are far reaching. It affects every algo nicehash supports, which luckily still excludes some profitable algos (for miners).

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[bensam123]

After further analysis I'd HIGHLY suggest Nicehash disable their API, implement captchas for making new orders, remove the ability to modify hashpower, disallow people from refilling orders, and increase order cancellation fees to 5-10%.

As it currently stands right now Nicehash is being completely manipulated by arbitrage bots. They push other legitimate buyers out of the market by disallowing them hashpower and then push prices to the bottom by readjusting their hashpower again. This sort of manipulation leads prices to bottom out at the point where miners manually remove their hashingpower from the market because it reaches power break even prices.

This sort of manipulation is killing not only coins (as their demand fluctuates based on difficulty), but also will slowly and absolutely kill off hashing in general as it will equalize around power prices, which will further push miners out of the market as they can't make money anymore. There will be no bottom line as the amount of hashing power decreases, the amount of income increases, which will lead the abritrage bots to further push the prices down onto power break even. They will not let up, it's automated; they maximize their income, not miners. There is no ROI on arbitrage bots, there is no power prices.

Since Nicehash controls so much hashing power and is effectively the graveyard for miners before they're decommissioned it will be a endless cycle. There are currently not enough coins to deal with all the hashing power such as what's happening with Halcyon right now. If there were enough profitable coins, it'd be different as it'd outstrip the amount of hashing power on Nicehash and prices would go up, but the BTC mining market is no where close to this.

I'd suggest miners move their miners to actual coins, such as Halcyon and do some research to find coins to mine if Nicehash does not proactively try to stop arbitrage on their pool. Arbitrage/bots are not good for anyone, completely putting aside the mess that is Westhash, this is a much bigger problem and will have far reaching consequences into the future.

[🏰 TradeFortress 🏰]

It has been explained few pages back. But if you think it is possible, let us know your solution (we need detailed technical solution that is possible to be realized according to existing limitations of mining software and targeting pools).

Anycast.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anycast

[StuffOfInterest]

Nicehash ... please make payout amounts changeable.
Every 4 hours is way too often and the fee is WAY too high!
0.01btc / payment with a 2% fee .. is fucking rape, because that just puts a bunch of tiny inputs in my btc addy. Meaning when I go to spend all of them Ill have to pay yet another huge fee!

Something else I suggested weeks back.  Have a password parameter such as "t=0.01" to set a payment threshold of 0.01 BTC.  Take the lowest received value of that parameter as the valid threshold.  This way, a bad actor could cause a payout to occur before the user wished but there is no way to delay the payout.  If no bad actor is involved then the user has control of when their payout occurs.

I typically get one payout per day.  I'm afraid of what the transaction fee is going to look like when I finally collect all this dust and try to spend it.

[Trimegistus]

Something else I suggested weeks back.  Have a password parameter such as "t=0.01" to set a payment threshold of 0.01 BTC.  Take the lowest received value of that parameter as the valid threshold.  This way, a bad actor could cause a payout to occur before the user wished but there is no way to delay the payout.  If no bad actor is involved then the user has control of when their payout occurs.

I typically get one payout per day.  I'm afraid of what the transaction fee is going to look like when I finally collect all this dust and try to spend it.

This might not be a bad idea. I support the movement to increase the payout threshold for everybody or make it user configurable. I also have a lot of dust in my wallet

[carloss]

After further analysis I'd HIGHLY suggest Nicehash disable their API, implement captchas for making new orders, remove the ability to modify hashpower, disallow people from refilling orders, and increase order cancellation fees to 5-10%.

Maybe you should also HIGHLY suggest to ban multipools (they are an essence of coin difficulty arbitrage) and coin exchange APIs (bots steal good prices!). Also, imagine there are exchanges running arbitrages themselves! This all should be banned!

Yeah, that's what arbitrage does - targets market inefficiencies and destroys them. You will have live with it.

(I am not running arbitrages of any kind myself).

[carloss]

Why not just make payouts once a day.... and a minimum of .05btc...?
Also, if a miner hasnt met the .05btc after 5 days then trigger payout for whatever amount he is owed.
Or something to that affect...

I would suggest pay daily if it reaches 0.01, once a week pay the rest owed.

[carloss]

Since there is so few miners on westhash, orders below them never get filled and despite their order having relatively little amount of bitcoin (to reduce cancellation fees)

AFAIK order cancellation fee is fixed (0.0001 BTC deducted from returned fee). So having orders with little amount of bitcoin does not help to reduce any fees.

[suchmoon]

After further analysis I'd HIGHLY suggest Nicehash disable their API, implement captchas for making new orders, remove the ability to modify hashpower, disallow people from refilling orders, and increase order cancellation fees to 5-10%.

Maybe you should also HIGHLY suggest to ban multipools (they are an essence of coin difficulty arbitrage) and coin exchange APIs (bots steal good prices!). Also, imagine there are exchanges running arbitrages themselves! This all should be banned!

Yeah, that's what arbitrage does - targets market inefficiencies and destroys them. You will have live with it.

(I am not running arbitrages of any kind myself).

Every once in a while a comrade shows up in one of these hash rental threads explaining how some magic market regulation is going to solve all their imaginary problems. I'm surprised that no one has started a fully regulated politically correct hash rental service. It should be a great success based on these theories.

[BitCoinDream]

I am confused by the complicated hash power calculation at NiceHash. Can someone please tell me something simple ? I get 1 GH/s @ 0.0031 BTC on PBmining  and @ 0.00374990 on CEX.io. At what cost I get 1 GH/s at NiceHash ?

[nicehashdev]

I am confused by the complicated hash power calculation at NiceHash. Can someone please tell me something simple ? I get 1 GH/s @ 0.0031 BTC on PBmining  and @ 0.00374990 on CEX.io. At what cost I get 1 GH/s at NiceHash ?

Depends for what time. At cex.io you buy virtual hashing device (not only hashing power) and is yours until you sell it. Here, you buy only hashing power, and not device.

After further analysis I'd HIGHLY suggest Nicehash disable their API, implement captchas for making new orders, remove the ability to modify hashpower, disallow people from refilling orders, and increase order cancellation fees to 5-10%.

Maybe you should also HIGHLY suggest to ban multipools (they are an essence of coin difficulty arbitrage) and coin exchange APIs (bots steal good prices!). Also, imagine there are exchanges running arbitrages themselves! This all should be banned!

Yeah, that's what arbitrage does - targets market inefficiencies and destroys them. You will have live with it.

(I am not running arbitrages of any kind myself).

Every once in a while a comrade shows up in one of these hash rental threads explaining how some magic market regulation is going to solve all their imaginary problems. I'm surprised that no one has started a fully regulated politically correct hash rental service. It should be a great success based on these theories.

As explained several times before already, we will not interfere with market in any kind.

Why not just make payouts once a day.... and a minimum of .05btc...?
Also, if a miner hasnt met the .05btc after 5 days then trigger payout for whatever amount he is owed.
Or something to that affect...

I would suggest pay daily if it reaches 0.01, once a week pay the rest owed.

We don't think majority would be happy with this. Other multipools pay out daily balances over 0.001.

[vortexz]

why not let us choose when to withdrawl ?

[blufish]

We don't think majority would be happy with this. Other multipools pay out daily balances over 0.001.

I like StuffOfInterest's suggestion to provide a t= password parameter, or maybe some other means to indicate how often payouts happen. You could certainly keep the minimum at 0.001 once a day or 0.01 3x a day (I do support an increase, but I'm in the sub 0.01 a day category), but allow users to specify higher values than the minimums to reduce frequency of payout if desired, and reducing dust.

My understanding is that currently, a 2% fee is charged, but no withdrawl charge (as these are done automatically). Perhaps lowering the 2% fee a tad, and introducing a withdrawl/payout fee would encourage miners to use reduce payout frequency through whatever means choose to put in place.

[bensam123]

After further analysis I'd HIGHLY suggest Nicehash disable their API, implement captchas for making new orders, remove the ability to modify hashpower, disallow people from refilling orders, and increase order cancellation fees to 5-10%.

Maybe you should also HIGHLY suggest to ban multipools (they are an essence of coin difficulty arbitrage) and coin exchange APIs (bots steal good prices!). Also, imagine there are exchanges running arbitrages themselves! This all should be banned!

Yeah, that's what arbitrage does - targets market inefficiencies and destroys them. You will have live with it.

(I am not running arbitrages of any kind myself).

Multipools can't be manipualted the way NH is being manipulated right now. They're two completely different things. Exchange API bots are here to stay, unfortunately, NH however is the only game that does what they do with the supported algos. This would be better if they were a multipool.

NH can stop this. Don't act like they can't. There aren't a dozen or so NH's floating around with the same amount of hashing power. NH is the only game in town and hashing power is a finite resource. It's all starting to pool here, if you don't kill off arbitrage the miners will go under as they'll push the prices down to power break even/shutdown for miners. Then no one wins, except the 2-3 people running arbitrage bots on NH right now.

As explained several times before already, we will not interfere with market in any kind.

You're already interfering with the market by allowing arbitrage bots into miner territory! Miners could actually profit off protocols, now you're gathering them all up and executing them. This isn't 'organic' and this sort of market didn't even exist before NH showed up. This isn't the same as rental pools such as MMR. MMR doesn't allow automated rentals and doesn't just feed out hashrate to bots.

Allowing a handful of people to complete rape the market is like willfully trying to destroy it and don't pretend this is natural and orderly. This didn't even exist up till recently and you're allowing them to manipulate your system to further destroy the market.

I don't understand where the lack of interference comes from either. I didn't say NH should be shut down, but BOTS, non-human entities that automatically push humans out of the market should be eliminated. You have all these rules setup when people setup their orders to try to make the system seem 'fair', you even talk about how Westhash exists so we don't get cheated out of a few fraction of hashing power, but then you allow them to completely manipulate, knowingly let them manipulate the market, which completely wrecks the whole thing.

Earlier tonight there were placeholder orders on .2 through .3, where one person was controlling all the hashrate. He'd top up his orders when they were low, so people wouldn't end up underneath. Eventually people simply canceled their orders, the price would drop through all the ranks of his orders as they set them to .05 GH of power, and then the bottom order above the next highest that wasn't them would be set to infinite or a really high number. This was on Nicehash too, Westhash has the same guy completely controlling x15 I mentioned last week.

I think you're confusing regulation for blatant exploitation of miners and buyers by automated entities. How is making a human set up orders regulating the market anyway? That's the way it's done in the first place. Making a penalty for people trying to cancel orders also encourage people to ride things out. Disallowing people from changing their hashrate prevents placeholder orders which are being used to push people out of the market (which otherwise would increase prices). There is even a bit about placeholders in the FAQ, yet it's broken and placeholders still exist.

[rammy2k2]

stop taking orders on WEST !!! make it just a alternative server !!! your prices are kicking us, the sellers, away !!!

[suchmoon]

Miners could actually profit off protocols, now you're gathering them all up and executing them.

Who is forcing the miners to gather and be executed? If you can profit elsewhere that's what you should do. Let me guess - you like the convenience of NiceHash but would also like the prices to be higher.

[crashoveride54902]

After further analysis I'd HIGHLY suggest Nicehash disable their API, implement captchas for making new orders, remove the ability to modify hashpower, disallow people from refilling orders, and increase order cancellation fees to 5-10%.

Maybe you should also HIGHLY suggest to ban multipools (they are an essence of coin difficulty arbitrage) and coin exchange APIs (bots steal good prices!). Also, imagine there are exchanges running arbitrages themselves! This all should be banned!

Yeah, that's what arbitrage does - targets market inefficiencies and destroys them. You will have live with it.

(I am not running arbitrages of any kind myself).

Multipools can't be manipualted the way NH is being manipulated right now. They're two completely different things. Exchange API bots are here to stay, unfortunately, NH however is the only game that does what they do with the supported algos. This would be better if they were a multipool.

NH can stop this. Don't act like they can't. There aren't a dozen or so NH's floating around with the same amount of hashing power. NH is the only game in town and hashing power is a finite resource. It's all starting to pool here, if you don't kill off arbitrage the miners will go under as they'll push the prices down to power break even/shutdown for miners. Then no one wins, except the 2-3 people running arbitrage bots on NH right now.

As explained several times before already, we will not interfere with market in any kind.

You're already interfering with the market by allowing arbitrage bots into miner territory! Miners could actually profit off protocols, now you're gathering them all up and executing them. This isn't 'organic' and this sort of market didn't even exist before NH showed up. This isn't the same as rental pools such as MMR. MMR doesn't allow automated rentals and doesn't just feed out hashrate to bots.

Allowing a handful of people to complete rape the market is like willfully trying to destroy it and don't pretend this is natural and orderly. This didn't even exist up till recently and you're allowing them to manipulate your system to further destroy the market.

I don't understand where the lack of interference comes from either. I didn't say NH should be shut down, but BOTS, non-human entities that automatically push humans out of the market should be eliminated. You have all these rules setup when people setup their orders to try to make the system seem 'fair', you even talk about how Westhash exists so we don't get cheated out of a few fraction of hashing power, but then you allow them to completely manipulate, knowingly let them manipulate the market, which completely wrecks the whole thing.

Earlier tonight there were placeholder orders on .2 through .3, where one person was controlling all the hashrate. He'd top up his orders when they were low, so people wouldn't end up underneath. Eventually people simply canceled their orders, the price would drop through all the ranks of his orders as they set them to .05 GH of power, and then the bottom order above the next highest that wasn't them would be set to infinite or a really high number. This was on Nicehash too, Westhash has the same guy completely controlling x15 I mentioned last week.

I think you're confusing regulation for blatant exploitation of miners and buyers by automated entities. How is making a human set up orders regulating the market anyway? That's the way it's done in the first place. Making a penalty for people trying to cancel orders also encourage people to ride things out. Disallowing people from changing their hashrate prevents placeholder orders which are being used to push people out of the market (which otherwise would increase prices). There is even a bit about placeholders in the FAQ, yet it's broken and placeholders still exist.

Maybe he doesn't wanna do that cause he is the one running the bots? Hehe I have no proof...just saying it thou

[BitCoinDream]

I am confused by the complicated hash power calculation at NiceHash. Can someone please tell me something simple ? I get 1 GH/s @ 0.0031 BTC on PBmining  and @ 0.00374990 on CEX.io. At what cost I get 1 GH/s at NiceHash ?

Depends for what time. At cex.io you buy virtual hashing device (not only hashing power) and is yours until you sell it. Here, you buy only hashing power, and not device.

I noticed that u skipped the PBmining part. Not sure why. They sell hashes. I just got to know about another... BitcoinCloudServices.com. They are giving 1 GH/s @ 0.0026 BTC for 5 years. PBmining offer is also for 5 years. So, to get 1 GH/s for 5 years from NiceHash.com, what it would cost ?

p.s. I am mentioning the time period because u asked for it. If u dont offer contract for 5 years, then please let me know the longest term of your deal.

[yudhistira]

X15 price go down very fast   

0.6 to 0.02 the days before avg on 0.3

What happened 

[rammy2k2]

X15 price go down very fast   

0.6 to 0.02 the days before avg on 0.3

What happened 

same on scrypt, when prices goes up, suddenly someone makes a low order and put prices down ...