Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher

[bryant.coleman]

^^^^^^ this discussion has turned heavily partisan. All those who are talking about a take-over of the federal land are from the Republican party (such as Ken Ivory, Becky Lockhart, and Scott Bedke). On the other hand those who are opposed to this are mainly from the Democratic party (includes the double douche Harry Reid).

[Wilikon]

Has anyone seen this article yet? This seems like an incredible upstart after the topic of this thread . .

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57836973-90/utah-lands-lawmakers-federal.html.csp

Actually, the sad part is that I had to recall it from memory because for some reason it just keeps getting replaced by 'bigger' news.

The Montana Senator is saying that the people in the state can better manage the lands . . in that the takeover could directly create jobs in "oil and other resources".

It seems like a clear response to what happened in the first half of the month, but can the situation actually be turned the other way? Or . . if it goes through will this end up directly fueling the feudal/dynastic system? Can it even happen? Is this just a nice idea, with no potential outcome?

Yes. Post #144
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=564097.msg6296850#msg6296850

[cocoakrispies]

Hahaa that's terrible. I even remember looking through the thread to see if it got in here yet . . must have not been awake. Well that was dumb, deleted to keep the thread from repeating everything since 144.

[Wilikon]

Hahaa that's terrible. I even remember looking through the thread to see if it got in here yet . . must have not been awake. Well that was dumb, deleted to keep the thread from repeating everything since 144.

Nah. Do not worry about that. It is not "terrible".

[Spendulus]

85% of all the land in Nevada is federal land!

What is the need for this much?

The original atomic bomb tests, above ground; later the below ground tests, come to mind.  But I would wonder why that same land couldn't be auctioned off today. 

[Wilikon]

85% of all the land in Nevada is federal land!

What is the need for this much?

The original atomic bomb tests, above ground; later the below ground tests, come to mind.  But I would wonder why that same land couldn't be auctioned off today. 

It can't without written permission from the illegal Aliens with grey skin at Groom Lake, Area 51, Nevada again...

[Wilikon]

BLM Destroyed Water Tanks, Shot Bulls, Ran Over Tortoise Dens

http://youtu.be/2UHdK962bqY

Bureau of Land Management officials destroyed water lines and water tanks belonging to the Cliven Bundy family. The feds also shot two prized bulls and ran over endangered tortoise dens.




Bundy ranch family members and friends spent much of their weekend moving cattle shot or run to death during the BLM standoff earlier this month. The graphic images have gone viral online, shocking both rancher and animal advocates alike.

The first mass cattle graves photos released by Cliven Bundy and his supporters on Sunday appear to substantiate reports by witnesses who first reported the cattle deaths. Nevada assemblywoman Michel Fiore was among those who maintained that BLM agents either killed cattle by either shooting them or running them to death during the Bunkerville incident. Fiore posted several images of the cow grave on Twitter last night, labeling the posting, “#BLM massacre. This isn’t how you herd cattle.”

“Near their compound, right off the highway, they were digging holes. They tried to bury some cows on the compound, but I guess they didn’t dig the hole deep enough, so they throw a cow in and they put dirt over him and you have cow’s legs sticking out of the dirt.”

The Bureau of Land Management’s court order only gave the federal agency the authority to seize the Bundy ranch cattle from owner Cliven Bundy. As previously reported by The Inquisitr, several prized bulls were also shot and killed after being deemed a “safety hazard” during the standoff. A Fox News reporter, among others, who viewed the bull holding pens after the livestock were “euthanized” noted that any evidence of wild behavior such as damaged gates or fencing were not evident.


Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1220627/bundy-ranch-cliven-bundy-discovers-blm-mass-cow-graves-graphic-images/#zwTXreShH3FK7qCi.99

[AnonyMint]

Good to see some rural Americans (Bundy's use of images of cows mutilated by Senator Dirty Harry's BLM) are learning how to fight the public opinion war.

The problem is these bastards won't go quietly into the night. The reason the Homelove ScrewUrity department obtained 2714 tank-like vehicles and the permission to buy up to 1 billion hollow point bullets (illegal in war by Hague convention because they are so gruesome) is because they plan on collapsing the economy and then using the scared masses in the cities for political support while they move all the freedom thinkers into detention centers for extermination.

As a last resort, they have their fingers on the triggers for global nuclear winter and underground shelters for themselves.

If we really want to win, we are going to need a viral strategy that defunds them and causes mass rebellion within their ranks. Some are working on this behind the scenes now.

[bryant.coleman]

BLM was justifying their actions by saying that it was necessary to protect the desert tortoises. But their actions have lead to the deaths of hundreds of these endangered tortoises.

[AnonyMint]

BLM was justifying their actions by saying that it was necessary to protect the desert tortoises. But their actions have lead to the deaths of hundreds of these endangered tortoises.

Everyone knows this wasn't about tortoises. You know that too, so why do you post this?

Playing the politics of public opinion won't be a victory for freedom. The bastards will always win that public opinion battle because they have control over all the main levers of control, such as the creation of money, production by multi-national corporations, mass media, government education, etc.

[tvbcof]

I've not followed the story much, but my first impression is that Bundy should pay his fucking fees like everyone else or adjust his operation to roll with the changing times.  If he is not competitive without mooching off the commons (which, by definition, everyone owns) and causing generally considered unacceptable ecological damage to them then he should either buy land out of his own funds or downsize.

I don't accept that Bundy has some sort of God-given right to the land because his granddaddy used it just as I don't accept that currently respiration  African Americans or Indians (native Americans) have some sort of special claim because their distant ancestor were abused.  If a guy want to claim some special right, he should file for some sort of a disability and claim on the basis that he has some personal deficiency which argues for special treatment as far as I'm concerned.  (This attitude does not make me very popular with my liberal brothers I have to say.)

[bryant.coleman]

I've not followed the story much, but my first impression is that Bundy should pay his fucking fees like everyone else or adjust his operation to roll with the changing times. 

He was ready to pay the grazing fees and the applicable taxes. But the BLM prevented the authorities from accepting them. In addition to it, they slapped a fine of some $650 million for over-grazing.

[Wilikon]

BLM EYES 90,000 ACRES OF TEXAS LAND


After the recent Bundy Ranch episode by the U.S. Bureau of Land Management (BLM), Texans are becoming more concerned about the BLM’s focus on 90,000 acres along a 116 mile stretch of the Texas/Oklahoma boundary. The BLM is reviewing the possible federal takeover and ownership of privately-held lands which have been deeded property for generations of Texas landowners.

Sid Miller, former Texas State Representative and Republican candidate for Texas Agriculture Commissioner, has since made the matter a campaign issue to Breitbart Texas.

“In Texas,” Miller says, “the BLM is attempting a repeat of an action taken over 30 years ago along the Red River when Tommy Henderson lost a federal lawsuit. The Bureau of Land Management took 140 acres of his property and didn’t pay him one cent.”

Miller referred to a 1986 case where the BLM attempted to seize some of Henderson’s land. Henderson sued the BLM and lost 140 acres that had been in his family for generations. Now the BLM is looking at using the prior case as a precedent to claim an additional 90,000 acres.

Congressman Mac Thornberry (R-TX) represents the ranchers in this region of north Texas. According to Thornberry’s legislative analysts, the issue of the ownership of this land dates back to the Louisiana Purchase of 1803. When the BLM made the claim on Henderson’s land, their position was that Texas never had the authority to deed the land to private parties and therefore it would fall under federal control.

In 1922, the U.S. Supreme Court attempted to settle the boundary dispute in Oklahoma v. Texas and declared the boundary to be defined by wooden stakes set on the river bank. That boundary apparently lasted no longer than anyone could expect wooden stakes to last in the shifting sands of a meandering river. In 2000, Texas and Oklahoma’s legislatures agreed to a “Red River Boundary Compact” which defined the border between the states as the southern vegetation line. However, Congress must ratify agreements of this kind between the states according to Article 1, Section 10 (Clause 3) of the U.S. Constitution. Congressman Thornberry introduced House Joint Resolution 72 during the 106th Congress to codify the compact into U.S. Law.

The matter became somewhat of a national question drawing the attention of Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders, “The U.S. Supreme Court has tried twice to settle this dispute, which at one point brought the governor of Oklahoma to the border in a tank…However, true to the slogan 'One Riot, One Ranger,' the good governor of Oklahoma and his tank was held off by a lone Texas Ranger on his horse."

Tanks aside, the Texas Farm Bureau has produced a video that explains the problems left open by the current border definition from north Texas ranchers’ perspectives. This issue reportedly centers on Oklahoma’s definitions on the various forms of movement with the river.

http://youtu.be/4sAbiO0SThQ


The Texas Farm Bureau asserts the State of Oklahoma believes that whenever the river shifts south, the state line moves south. But when the river moves north, the line remains in place. Now, the BLM seems to want to settle the matter by simply confiscating the land.

According to a BLM document provided to Breitbart Texas courtesy Rep. Thornberry’s staff, the BLM is going through a scoping period where they are gathering facts on land whose ownership they believe to be in question in Texas, Oklahoma and Kansas. The BLM is in the process of developing a Resource Management Plan. The plan will cover a total of 411,585 square miles, or 263 million acres of land. The BLM describes its “decision area as about 104,000 acres of BLM administered surface lands, 593,000 acres of split-estate land (private land with federal mineral interests) and 5,270,000 acres of federal mineral interests on land managed by other federal agencies."

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/04/21/The-Eyes-of-the-BLM-are-on-Texas

[tvbcof]

He was ready to pay the grazing fees and the applicable taxes. But the BLM prevented the authorities from accepting them.

Wasn't he refusing to pay fees to anyone but Nevada, when they are owed to the BLM? Based on some tinfoil-hat redneck fear of the federal government? The idea that he has any 'right' to the land because his great-granddad grazed there is ridiculous.

Now it seems that he got hundreds of armed thugs to turn up and threaten BLM agents and their families until they backed off, and is now claiming a "civil rights victory". Sad day for democracy and best argument for gun control I ever saw.

I'm a strong supporter of 2nd amendment rights in addition to being a hard-core lib in most philosophical areas.  I don't know how many people are in my category in this respect, but I'll bet there are a bunch...particularly out here in the Western U.S.

The point you bring up is a good one and one which pains me greatly.  Namely that a bunch of gun toting yahoos claiming some sort of a victory in what is a conflict which is at best highly ambiguous, and implying that their guns had anything to do with it.  If we lose our 2nd amendment rights it will be more due to events like this than anything.

[Wilikon]

He was ready to pay the grazing fees and the applicable taxes. But the BLM prevented the authorities from accepting them.

Wasn't he refusing to pay fees to anyone but Nevada, when they are owed to the BLM? Based on some tinfoil-hat redneck fear of the federal government? The idea that he has any 'right' to the land because his great-granddad grazed there is ridiculous.

Now it seems that he got hundreds of armed thugs to turn up and threaten BLM agents and their families until they backed off, and is now claiming a "civil rights victory". Sad day for democracy and best argument for gun control I ever saw.

"Democracy"? So the BLM people were democratically elected? Harry Reid for gun control? Yes he is, as long as he the one controlling the gun.

[bryant.coleman]

Wasn't he refusing to pay fees to anyone but Nevada, when they are owed to the BLM? Based on some tinfoil-hat redneck fear of the federal government? The idea that he has any 'right' to the land because his great-granddad grazed there is ridiculous.

He wanted the status quo to remain. He was paying his fees and taxes to Nevada, but BLM told him he should stop that. I am not the one to judge whether he was right or wrong. But one thing is sure. I am not siding with that double douche Harry Reid.

[RodeoX]

I feel for the guy. But I'm guessing a lot of his supporters thought of the occupiers on Wall St. as squatters. Well, that is what he is doing. A bridge burned... 

[Wilikon]

"Democracy"? So the BLM people were democratically elected?

The BLM is managed by the US Department of the Interior, whose secretary of state is appointed by a democratically elected president and confirmed by a democratically elected senate.

Can you sue the BLM?

[precrime3]

This seems absolutely blown out of proportion. So what im hearing is FEDs attacking because old guy let his cows eat some "unauthorize grass" that might endager a tortoise? WTF?

[Wilikon]

This seems absolutely blown out of proportion. So what im hearing is FEDs attacking because old guy let his cows eat some "unauthorize grass" that might endager a tortoise? WTF?

A tortoise being crushed to death by the 4x4 belonging to the agents whose mission was to protect it.