Armed Feds Prepare For Showdown With Nevada Cattle Rancher

[AnonyMint]

You socialist pigs better understand the chaos you are up against (which no one will be able to stop).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LuCCcQ2agms#t=65

Listen carefully.

[Wilikon]

Former BLM Director Pat Shea challenged state Rep. Ken Ivory, R-West Jordan, to a formal debate at the University of Utah’s Hinckley Institute of Politics, and the lawmaker said he would accept such a challenge.

Wednesday’s conversation identified the deep philosophical disagreement that would underpin any such debate. Ivory argues the federal government used to own much of the land in states like Florida, Illinois and Nebraska and has since turned it over to private owners or the state. He believes it’s time for Western states to demand equal treatment in this matter and if Congress won’t comply, it may be time to launch a major court case. He said the land would be better managed and the profits from mining would help fund the state’s education system.

Shea was dismissive of such an idea.

"I don’t think states are capable of the complexity of managing these lands," he said, accusing Ivory of inflaming local officials to challenge federal land managers when the chances of the state’s gaining control of these lands are remote at best.

The standoff in Nevada between BLM officials and rancher Cliven Bundy served as a backdrop to this philosophical discussion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3y_Mqkpivcg&feature=share

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/57855791-90/state-federal-blm-lands.html.csp

[Wilikon]

All New England Could Fit on BLM Land in Nevada; BLM Owns 0 Acres in New England

The acreage the federal Bureau of Land Management currently owns in the state of Nevada is more than all the land in all of the states of New England combined, according to data published by the Congressional Research Service.

By contrast, the BLM does not own a single acre of land in any New England state.

New England, according to the Census Bureau, consists of six states: Connecticut, Rhode Island, Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine. Together, these states encompass 40,400,640 acres.



Nevada contains a total of 70,264,320 acres. Of these, the federal government owns 56,961,778 acres, or 81.1 percent of the state. That leaves only 13,302,542, or 18.9 percent of the state for owners other than the federal government.

The federal government, in other words, owns more than four times as much land in Nevada as all other land owners combined.

Of the 56,961,778 acres of Nevada owned by the federal government, the BLM controls 47,805,923 acres. That is about 84 percent of the federally land in the state and 68 percent of all the land in the state.


http://cnsnews.com/news/article/terence-p-jeffrey/all-new-england-could-fit-blm-land-nevada-blm-owns-0-acres-new

[AnonyMint]

Sent to the author of a blog you should make sure you are reading:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/armstrong_economics_blog/

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: People aren't sheep, rather they love Communism
From:    AnonyMint
Date:    Thu, April 24, 2014 12:31 pm
To:      "N" <armstrongeconomics@gmail.com>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Martin,

You recently wrote that the people are sheep and can only see as far as
the rear-end of the sheep next to them.

I am sorry but after writing in public forums since 2005, you are wrong.

Roughly 75% of the poeple love Communism (see the survey linked in the
following bitcointalk post). Here read this exchange in the Bundy ranch
thread and tell me it isn't so?

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=564097.msg6373991#msg6373991

So that is why your idea of spreading the word won't stop the coming
collapse.

I wish you would admit this publicly.

At this point, what we need to be doing is figuring out how to opt-out of
the coming collapse so we can eat popcorn while it crashes and burns.

I am asserting that a superior crypto-currency is going to play a vital role.

[practicaldreamer]

---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: You talk out your arse
From:    Practical Dreamer
Date:    Thu, April 24, 2014 7.30 pm
To:      "N" <armstrongeconomics@gmail.com>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------




 Martin -

         how are you finding freedom after your 8 years of porridge ? Very regrettable all that wasn't it - I do hope the shower block didn't prove to be too painful an experience for you ?
   Still, you managed to keep hold of your multi million dollar stash that you had the foresight and strength of will to steal from unwitting "sheep" Ha Ha  

    Still up to old tricks I see.

    Please help me save me from myself Martin - if you do I will hang on your every word just the same as your sycophantic sociopathic acolyte Anonymint does [you aren't the same person are you ? Ha Ha].

    What exactly was the nature of your relationship with Alan Walters, Martin ? He made a right fuck up as adviser to Margaret Thatcher - citizens of the UK are still paying the price for his/her mistakes to this day.
     Was it, as I would like to believe, that you were fortunate enough to have your photo taken with the man once whilst he'd had a glass too much port at the 1987 1922 Committee Xmas bash - and so you subsequently used that photo, quite rightly, to hoodwink unwitting arseholes sheep into believing you had some kind of clout with TPTB ?

     You are increasingly coming to sound like Nietschze as he approached madness Martin - but I do hope you can hold off the demons long enough to receive your Nobel Prize in Economics Ha Ha   - oh, and scam enough sheep to satiate your appetite for gold, which I know you have a particular penchant for.

Thus spoke Zarathustra Martin  

   All the best

         Practical Dreamer
        

[tvbcof]

<snip> - typical Annoyneymint prattle

Last night I discovered a whole ecosystem that I was only really dimly aware of at best.  That is, these 'guerrilla' journalists/talking-head/conspiracy-theorist types and the media platform network that they use.

In particular I was listening to one 'faction' of them and a little tussle with another faction.  Specifically, some woman named Susanne Posel who researched a fax which (supposedly) Anonymous pulled out of the ether from another guy named Santilli who has a show on Rense who apparently has a genuine network supporting a number of such individuals and their shows.  The fax purports to be from Santilli to the FBI regarding a covert operation involving fomenting some trucker's march on Washington or some such.

The interesting thing is that apparently Santilli is especially active in trying to stir up his listernership to pick up their guns and head to Bundy's place.  I ran across this because some of the Bundy supporters were warning other of the Bundy supporters to be careful with Santilli.

Interesting stuff actually.  Does the central government have any involvement with this ecosystem or use them in one manner or another?  Dunno.  It's certainly a strong enough hypothesis to consider as observations come in.  It is effectively a matter of fact that there does exist software which is designed to sway public opinion using social media, and that it has been acquired by (if not designed for) various branches of the central government.  And if they are willing to go that far, then various other operations such as manipulation of fringe media outlets certainly does not seem very far-fetched.

[benjamindees]

Pete Santilli, Adam Kokesh, and Mark "Dice" (I'll give you one guess as to where his pseudonym comes from) are all Marines from Camp Pendleton 3rd Civil Affairs Group (psyop unit).

[pungopete468]

Keeping up with the bickering in this thread is exhausting... Some people are far too eager to hand over the liberties of themselves and others.

I won't go further into my up-thread post directed at Nolo. It's apparent that we have far different ideas about what constitutes the legitimacy of law. I simply agree to disagree and my opinion is based on the spirit of the Supreme Law of our land and the intentions behind its very creation. I refuse to acknowledge the legitimacy of laws which are contradictory to the establishment of a Free State and to the preservation of a Free Society.

While I concede that much of this situation in Nevada is enacted under the color of law, I must also mention that the law has been responsible for the unnecessary deaths of hundreds of millions of innocent men, women, and children throughout the world in the last centuy. I also believe that the law has mutated and twisted apart from the wholesome purpose for which it was conceptualized. I believe that our actions will change the world for better or for worse and inaction is merely an action which opposes your own cause.

Those who support the spirit of our Constitution will understand what I'm writing while those who don't must take offense to the idea of omission from subjugation by willful disobedience.

The Federal Government may claim and assert power outside the borders of those granted by the Constitution, the Government can enforce those assertions with the force of law. Those assertions will never become lawful, robbing the freedom from a society is never consensual, no matter how much propaganda they feed the masses. The people will always hold the power to give and the power to take from the Government that which best serves the people.

As far as the future of our country and of the world as we know it; the outlook is bleak.

This disparity of core ideology can only lead to civil war if left unchallenged...

This isn't the same as a disagreement over gay rights, abortion, or even gun rights. This can't be voted on... It makes no difference how many people agree or disagree with the ideology because you cannot kill an idea. If the government kills every defender to the cause of Liberty and Equality then the idea will resound in the children, friends, and relatives and the desires of those left behind who seek justice. This is a cycle similar to an economic bubble... The market can collapse, but you can't kill it as long as people survive with the desire to use it.

Liberty is truth, you cannot be unenlightened... The truth will remain the truth long after the deaths of all those who might tell of it and the human desire for truth will always seek it out.

I think we are already in a civil war. Look at the way we've been waging wars recently; targets are selected from a pool of targets and then eliminated remotely by drone strike. There is no exchange of gunfire, no armies fighting each other for ground. Picking targets out of society and removing them under the force of some arbitrary law serves the same purpose as killing them. I disagree with any law which might be used to suppress an individual or remove them from society without a criminal offense. The escalation of this system into conventional civil war is inevitable.

[tvbcof]

Pete Santilli, Adam Kokesh, and Mark "Dice" (I'll give you one guess as to where his pseudonym comes from) are all Marines from Camp Pendleton 3rd Civil Affairs Group (psyop unit).

That may be true, or Santilli's fax to the FBI handler may be legit, but both things being true simultaneously does not seem likely off hand.

Your assertion is interesting.  If you produce any leads that I could follow up on which would provide observations to balance against the hypothesis, I'd probably be interested enough to follow some of them since it these things have grabbed my attention lately.

[tvbcof]

After Cliven Bundy's words of wisdom about 'the negro', things have shifted in an amusing way.  There has been an exodus of support of biblical proportions, but a Google news search will still pull up some dead-enders trying to support his cause.  Mostly trying to show that he's not a racist.  I thought I'd help them out a bit:

---

Consider this: Cliven Bundy's assertions that 'the negro's" problems stem from never having learned to pick cotton cannot be taken as a sign of racism because he himself is not a cotton farmer.  Indeed, he raises melons and brings the price down for black people everywhere! 

On just cannot argue with facts like this.

[bryant.coleman]

After Cliven Bundy's words of wisdom about 'the negro', things have shifted in an amusing way.  

http://rt.com/usa/154940-cliven-bundy-responds-racism-accusations/

"I’m not saying that I thought they should be slaves, or – I’m not even saying they was better off… I’m wondering if they’re better off,” he said at a press conference recorded by RT's video news agency Ruptly. "Are they slaves to charities and government subsidized homes? And are they slaves when their daughters are having abortions and their sons are in the prisons? This thought goes back a long time."

[AnonyMint]

Generative essence of why humans prefer slavery

Let's reduce this Bundy ranch debate to its generative essence.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/26/us-korea-north-usa-idUSBREA3P02U20140426

Obama reminds North Korea of U.S. 'military might'

"So like all nations on Earth, North Korea and its people have a choice. They can choose to continue down a lonely road of isolation, or they can choose to join the rest of the world and seek a future of greater opportunity, and greater security, and greater respect - a future that already exists for the citizens on the southern end of the Korean peninsula."

Obama's rhetoric above cloaks the true meaning which is that world government is "greater opportunity, and greater security, and greater respect" than sovereign countries, counties, and individuals.

The powers-that-be create a conflict (China supporting N. Korean and USA supporting S. Korea) in order to frighten individuals and cause them to think a world government is necessary for security. The powers-that-be are doing it again with China threatening the Philippines over the Spratly islands and the Philippines taking their claim to UN tribunal.

What Obama's rhetoric doesn't reveal is that instead of a diversity of sovereign countries, counties, and individuals (which includes allowing individuals to express and live their own opinions of diverse issues such as race, work ethics, and marriage), the world government means all that freedom of expression and life will be subjected to the will of those powers-that-be who manage the world 'democracy' by promising the people everything, manipulating 75% of their emotions, and taking everything for themselves. This is how the power vacuum of 'democracy' has always worked and will always work.

Upthread we have Communists who vehemently express their hatred of diversity of expression and life. They prefer a society that is top-down managed, so the powers-that-be can enforce all their control-freak pet peeves they want the community enslaved within.

The subconscious (root) motivation of these upthread antagonists is they won't want to see anyone have something they don't, i.e. jealousy. They convince themselves they are fighting for the good of all, but the truth is they are subconsciously jealous that individuals could compete and excel without their control over them via their powers-that-be proxy.

So I don't want to speak to these brain-dead antagonists who throughout history have destroyed themselves in repeating bouts of economic gridlock collapse and megadeath.

I speak today to those who want to opt-out of their killing machine.

Join me. I have the solution.

I'm ceasing debate with the antagonists. Their fate is sealed.


Edit:

http://armstrongeconomics.com/2014/04/11/socialism-at-its-best-how-to-destroy-the-wealth-of-a-nation/

[counter]

I'm not even going to entertain this whole issue with Bundy being a racists.  It is a distraction from the real issues and will only bring up the same old discussion and emphasize division.  It has nothing to do with what really matters is this case.

[bryant.coleman]

I'm not even going to entertain this whole issue with Bundy being a racists.  It is a distraction from the real issues and will only bring up the same old discussion and emphasize division.  It has nothing to do with what really matters is this case.

I agree. This new issue was raked up just to weaken the anti-BLM militia. And the smear campaign aimed at them may be used to justify any heavy handed action by the feds later.

[Bit_Happy]

Ranchers and Empire in the American West

 The militarized siege of a cattle ranch near Bunkerville, Nevada has drawn national attention as dozens of federal agents, armed with machine guns, sniper rifles, helicopters, and more, have descended on the ranch to seize cattle, people, and generally show everyone who’s boss.

The conservative press has framed the story in a variety of ways, casting the story both as matter of outright federal seizure of private land, and as an absurd environmental crusade to save a tortoise from extinction.

The reality looks to be a little murkier, however, as is often the case when dealing with land ownership in the American West. Back in September, the Las Vegas Sun reported on the Bundy family and noted that troubles began 20 years ago when the family’s patriarch unilaterally determined that he would no longer pay the Bureau of Land Management use fees that have long been required to graze on federal lands. The exact legal and historical details of the Bundy family’s case will emerge slowly over time, but even if the family is completely in the wrong legally (which it probably is), it’s safe to say that taxpayer dollars might be better spent on things other than a shock and awe campaign waged against a tiny ranch in the middle of a Nevada desert. Nonetheless, this is just the latest dispute in a long history of ranchers jockeying with the Federal government over land use permits and land use regulations.[1]

While those who are unfamiliar with land use in the West may see this as some sort of new dastardly deed on the part of the federal government, it is in fact the case that leasing federal land for grazing (among many other things) has been the status quo in the West for more than a century, and the federal government has owned at least 40 percent or more of the land in many Western states ever since it was annexed to the United States in the nineteenth century. In fact, the nation’s 13 Western states are home to 93 percent of federal land, with two-thirds of all land in Utah, and 81 percent of all land in Nevada owned by the feds....

http://mises.org/daily/6723/Ranchers-and-Empire-in-the-American-West


81 percent of Navada owned by the feds?
I don't think that is what the founding fathers (and the 10th amendment) had in mind.

[tvbcof]

I'm not even going to entertain this whole issue with Bundy being a racists.  It is a distraction from the real issues and will only bring up the same old discussion and emphasize division.  It has nothing to do with what really matters is this case.

I agree. This new issue was raked up just to weaken the anti-BLM militia. And the smear campaign aimed at them may be used to justify any heavy handed action by the feds later.

At this point what we have are rational and reasonable people who put the typical amount of time into following things so mad at the resurgent 'militia movement' that they literally believe they should gas Bundy's place to put them all to sleep, then go in and round up the whole gang, dis-arm them, and never let them touch a gun again.  If some of them got shot it would, I'm sure, be a regrettable but necessary cost of doing a necessary and correct thing on the part of the Feds.  I know from first hand experience in talking to such a person in the flesh.  This sentiment will die down in vigor but the seed will remain.  Anyone who needs to be vilified and actions against him justified from now on can have a 'militia' or 'oathkeeper' or whatever tag put on him.  This was somewhat effective before the Bundy event, and is that much more effective now.

My own information about the Randy Weaver case comes from a Jon Ronson book I just read called 'Them: Adventures with Extremists'.  Prior to that, my understanding of the events of that incident mostly came from the mainstream media which I used as a significant source of news until a decade or so ago.  It is pretty clear from Ronson's work that 'injustice' is a vast understatement of what the government(s) did to the Weaver clan,  I mention this because I just happened by an info-grapic running down various 'extremist' events in Newsweek one of them being the Weaver thing.  Exactly the same severe twisting of the Weaver affair that was used back then was used now.  I pride myself on not getting pissed easily, but that came close.

This impact on great swaths of our society was, if I remember correctly, exactly what I predicted in my earlier posts.  Predicting this was a no-brainer.  Predicting that such an event would be useful was also a no-brainer.  I again wonder if the whole thing was not a fairly carefully choreographer psyop.  It just ended up being to convenient and to useful.  And again, the Bundy clan no matter what there actual beliefs (which probably are 'extreme') owed $1M. That is a decent amount of leverage to get someone to actively play ball in a psyop.

[Bit_Happy]

I'm not even going to entertain this whole issue with Bundy being a racists.  It is a distraction from the real issues and will only bring up the same old discussion and emphasize division.  It has nothing to do with what really matters is this case.

I agree. This new issue was raked up just to weaken the anti-BLM militia. And the smear campaign aimed at them may be used to justify any heavy handed action by the feds later.

Similar to Waco: Much of what the media said about their leader was later shown to (probably) not be true.

[tvbcof]

I'm not even going to entertain this whole issue with Bundy being a racists.  It is a distraction from the real issues and will only bring up the same old discussion and emphasize division.  It has nothing to do with what really matters is this case.

I agree. This new issue was raked up just to weaken the anti-BLM militia. And the smear campaign aimed at them may be used to justify any heavy handed action by the feds later.

Similar to Waco: Much of what the media said about their leader was later shown to (probably) not be true.

I'm to chicken-shit to even look into the Waco thing because I'm afraid of what I might find.  Hard to admit, but it's basically close to the truth.

I will mention that back in the Tim McVeigh time, I was getting most of my news from the mainstream media and was much more trusting of it than I am now.  Even so, when they said that cops stopped McVeigh and found a knife under his seat and kept him in jail for three days, and it was only at the last minute when he was about to be released that someone happened to notice he looked like a poster, it raised my eyebrows.  It simply did not make sense, and there is no way that they would now or would then arrest some random guy and hold someone in jail for three days for such an infraction.

This does not prove that McVeigh is innocent or that the basics of the story are not more or less accurate.  It is pretty solid evidence that there is more to the story than meets the eye.  Any number of yarns can be spun about what 'the rest of the story' might be.  Today, however long after the event, I am much more inclined to consider the various different yarns to be worthy of exploration.  That's the cost of producing obvious bullshit for public consumption, but fortunately (for the Feds) not a high fraction of the population shares my sentiment.

I am quite convinced that there was a high level political decision to pursue 'homegrown terror' in the Clinton times, just as there was a high level political decision to find 'Muslims' during the Bush Jr. times.  In both cases it went out of control and people who didn't deserve it got mistreated (up to the point of being killed in fact.)  THIS is the nucleus of my concern about excess power in the central government, and it's not just some minor corner-case threat to our social fabric.  It has the potential to build into something truly awful and felt across the social spectrum.  It is, in short, a very bad foundation construct just as is the related NSA domestic surveillance framework.

[Bit_Happy]

I'm not even going to entertain this whole issue with Bundy being a racists.  It is a distraction from the real issues and will only bring up the same old discussion and emphasize division.  It has nothing to do with what really matters is this case.

I agree. This new issue was raked up just to weaken the anti-BLM militia. And the smear campaign aimed at them may be used to justify any heavy handed action by the feds later.

Similar to Waco: Much of what the media said about their leader was later shown to (probably) not be true.

I'm to chicken-shit to even look into the Waco thing because I'm afraid of what I might find....

"Blissful ignorance" is not a simple subject.
If you know the truth, there is a strong chance you will not be happy with what you found.
If you stick your head in the sand, then...
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." ~Edmund Burke

I strongly prefer a win/win situation, but sometimes reality offers you a double negative.
Been way too long since I took a trip to the beach.   

[tvbcof]

Similar to Waco: Much of what the media said about their leader was later shown to (probably) not be true.

I'm to chicken-shit to even look into the Waco thing because I'm afraid of what I might find....

"Blissful ignorance" is not a simple subject.  ...

It's called resource allocation dude.

It's a winning strategy to get the enemy bogged down by weather, terrain, etc.  I don't wish to be the dope in a rope-a-dope operation, and my friendly suggestion is that you guard against that eventuality as well.