[Ann] Safecoin maidsafecoin

[Chang Hum]

WHY NOT IN A POS MODEL?

Because the enitre business model of Maidsafe (the business these tokens are being used in conjunction with) is based on the sharing of resources!! check out the website links!

[zyxxer]

Safecoin looks like a great thing, however, is anyone aware of a site that describes a) where there are in terms of coding, b) when they plan to roll stuff out? Is there any forum where the devs reply to questions?

I mean with a proposed valuation of ~ 10mm / 10% = 100mm USD, one would surely like to have some more info. Thanks.

[Chang Hum]

Safecoin looks like a great thing, however, is anyone aware of a site that describes a) where there are in terms of coding, b) when they plan to roll stuff out? Is there any forum where the devs reply to questions?

I mean with a proposed valuation of ~ 10mm / 10% = 100mm USD, one would surely like to have some more info. Thanks.

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/maidsafe-development, That valuations a bit unfair as the $90 million are only going into farmers pockets (people on the network that provide the disk space) over the next 10 years.

[zyxxer]

Can someone ELI5 why MSC are used at all for funding (as opposed to BTC only) and what MaidSafe will do with them (sell them off at a later stage as a funding source, same as the BTC they raise?)?

Don't get me wrong, I am excited to see that MSC can be used here, just trying to understand. Thanks.

[Chang Hum]

Can someone ELI5 why MSC are used at all for funding (as opposed to BTC only) and what MaidSafe will do with them (sell them off at a later stage as a funding source, same as the BTC they raise?)?

Don't get me wrong, I am excited to see that MSC can be used here, just trying to understand. Thanks.

Go somewhere else and troll

[clout]

can you guys at maidsafe explain how safecoin can appreciate in value if it is constantly being diluted through the por mining process?

it's basically the same as with bitcoin.  bitcoin is being constantly diluted however the more people use the network, the more valuable it gets

its not like bitcoin. its a not a scarce resource. the more ppl connect to the network the more safecoin there are. you don't have to go on an exchange to buy safecoin. as long as the resources you offer the network are more than the resources you take from the network your use of the network is free.

there is a limited number of safecoins.  that means it is scarce.

It is proposed that safecoin will have a predictable cap (232) with a value that is determined solely by the market. Safecoin will be a virtual currency with SAFE being used to complete transactions.

There is no hard set cap on safecoin as there is with bitcoin. I don't approve of bitcoins inflationary model so I find it hard to approve of safecoins hyper inflationary model, determined by moores law. The number of safecoins is correlated with moores law and the value of safecoins is thereby correlated with the cost of resources which will continue to decline.

You have to understand this from a pragmatic perspective. Why would I ever pay for this service when I can simply offer the network more resources than I can use. Safecoins are not the same as investing in a companies equity, because companies do not continually dilute the shares in the company. Safecoins are more a way to account for and economize resource on the network. You can only loose money by holding on to safecoin. The price of safecoin will never be determined by the market per se because no one ever has to purchase safecoin as long as they provide more resources than they consume.

[clout]

I implore everyone to look at the economics of the maidsafe/safecoin model and understand that it is not possible for the price of safecoin to appreciate over time. It is in everyone's best interests - mastercoin, maidsafe, and investors - that this ipo does not proceed. It is going to cause a huge debacle and may constitute a set back for both development teams. I do not want to see either of these teams fail, but this is a step in the wrong direction.

[BitSwe]

can you guys at maidsafe explain how safecoin can appreciate in value if it is constantly being diluted through the por mining process?

it's basically the same as with bitcoin.  bitcoin is being constantly diluted however the more people use the network, the more valuable it gets

its not like bitcoin. its a not a scarce resource. the more ppl connect to the network the more safecoin there are. you don't have to go on an exchange to buy safecoin. as long as the resources you offer the network are more than the resources you take from the network your use of the network is free.

there is a limited number of safecoins.  that means it is scarce.

It is proposed that safecoin will have a predictable cap (232) with a value that is determined solely by the market. Safecoin will be a virtual currency with SAFE being used to complete transactions.

There is no hard set cap on safecoin as there is with bitcoin. I don't approve of bitcoins inflationary model so I find it hard to approve of safecoins hyper inflationary model, determined by moores law. The number of safecoins is correlated with moores law and the value of safecoins is thereby correlated with the cost of resources which will continue to decline.

You have to understand this from a pragmatic perspective. Why would I ever pay for this service when I can simply offer the network more resources than I can use. Safecoins are not the same as investing in a companies equity, because companies do not continually dilute the shares in the company. Safecoins are more a way to account for and economize resource on the network. You can only loose money by holding on to safecoin. The price of safecoin will never be determined by the market per se because no one ever has to purchase safecoin as long as they provide more resources than they consume.

I agree with that the "predictable cap" is not a good sign, I'd like a hard cap more.

because no one ever has to purchase safecoin as long as they provide more resources than they consume

Is not this same thing as "noone will ever purchase bitcoins, as long as they mine more bitcoins than they consume" ?

[clout]

In regards to you latter point. No the two are not that same. Bitcoin and maidsafe are too different models. You do not use bitcoins in order to use the bitcoin networks. There is no difficulty adjustment as far as I know, so the increase in safecoins would have to be exponential not logarithmic. That is a hyper inflationary model.

[r3animation]

I'll probably invest a few MSC for this crowdsale as I like the the ideas behind it. (eg. Curecoin)

But I think they need to include a hard cap.

[kripto]

But I think they need to include a hard cap.

Isn't there a cap of 4.3 billion safecoins?

[hmmmstrange]

But I think they need to include a hard cap.

Isn't there a cap of 4.3 billion safecoins?

The sale event will run until ten percent of all safecoins (429,496,729) are sold or 30 days have passed, which ever happens first.

Total safecoins will be ~4.3 billion

[RawDog]

On MasterXchange there is currently an offer of 400 MSC for .17.  I find this strange.  

Tomorrow one will be able to buy MaidSafe for either BTC or MSC.  
Since the rate is fixed, you will pay either 1/17000 BTC or 1/3400MSC per MaidSafeCoin.  

So, if you want to save money you can buy the underpriced MSC now @ .17 and spend them tomorrow to buy MaidSafe to profit 400*.03 or 12 MSC.  That is about equal to $1000.

Why are people leaving $1,000 on the table?  It seems to me there is a 100% chance of the event occurring as planned.  In that case, MSC should be priced at about .1999999 today.  However, it is still sitting way down at .17.  That is a very curious discrepancy.  

Got any idea why this is happening?

[r3animation]

But I think they need to include a hard cap.

Isn't there a cap of 4.3 billion safecoins?

The sale event will run until ten percent of all safecoins (429,496,729) are sold or 30 days have passed, which ever happens first.

Total safecoins will be ~4.3 billion

Sorry my bad, I must have skipped over it somehow....

[hmmmstrange]

On MasterXchange there is currently an offer of 400 MSC for .17.  I find this strange.  

Tomorrow one will be able to buy MaidSafe for either BTC or MSC.  
Since the rate is fixed, you will pay either 1/17000 BTC or 1/3400MSC per MaidSafeCoin.  

So, if you want to save money you can buy the underpriced MSC now @ .17 and spend them tomorrow to buy MaidSafe to profit 400*.03 or 12 MSC.  That is about equal to $1000.

Why are people leaving $1,000 on the table?  It seems to me there is a 100% chance of the event occurring as planned.  In that case, MSC should be priced at about .1999999 today.  However, it is still sitting way down at .17.  That is a very curious discrepancy.  

Got any idea why this is happening?

I suspect there are some very uninformed msc holders.

[fudge]

@masterxchange:
"Mastercoins withdrawals are subject to a 0.08 msc fee"
"Maidsafecoins withdrawals are subject to a 130 maid fee"
"Bitcoins withdrawals are subject to a 0.003 btc fee"

[RawDog]

@masterxchange:
"Mastercoins withdrawals are subject to a 0.08 msc fee"
"Maidsafecoins withdrawals are subject to a 130 maid fee"
"Bitcoins withdrawals are subject to a 0.003 btc fee"

Don't withdraw them.  Keep them in your account and trade them later.  

Or withdraw them, and pay .08MSC which is about 8$ on a $1000 profit.  So you argue nobody is taking the $1000 arbitrage because they'd like to avoid paying an $8 withdrawal fee? 

I am not ready to buy that strategy.  I suspect there is more to it.

[nakaone]

But I think they need to include a hard cap.

Isn't there a cap of 4.3 billion safecoins?

The sale event will run until ten percent of all safecoins (429,496,729) are sold or 30 days have passed, which ever happens first.

Total safecoins will be ~4.3 billion

Sorry my bad, I must have skipped over it somehow....

even with the market cap I do not get why an appreciating price would be a good thing for the system. sorry but i did not find time to read the widepaper. but let us assume the price goes from 80 million market cap too 800m - will the price of let's say storing stay constant in safecoin terms or will it be a stable price in dollar or bitcoin terms?

[fudge]

its not safe to keep your coins on the exchange, isnt it?

[fudge]

I am not ready to buy that strategy.  I suspect there is more to it.

Strategy is to share profit for MaidSafe and Mastercoin.