[Ann] Safecoin maidsafecoin

[evershawn]

If it's 50/50, then out of 455,997,071 created safecoins about 227,998,535 are reserved for BTC buyers. Let's forget bonuses and assume 17,000 safecoins per BTC. Then 227,998,535/17,000 ~ 13400 BTC is needed to finish the IPO. Only about 5K BTC is collected so far. Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing something. There was a 40% early buy in bonus. So you can't just say, "Let's forget bonuses". Redo all your math, take all the purchases so far and add 40%

[davidpbrown]

The best fix for the future is to strictly adhere to mastercoin protocol intend and not to ever offer BTC purchases in the first place. Only automated MSC purchases should have been allowed during IPO.

Yes!..and given the manual input to action BTC purchases, it's a wonder they didn't see this up front.

[FrictionlessCoin]

I think they said MSC were not bought but loaned before the IPO, and I don't think they dumped any of the received MSC yet (if they did, the MSC price would go much lower than 0.06). But I totally agree it's a mess that should never happen again. If it's a mastercoin protocol based IPO, only MSC should be used for purchases. Then everything is automated and there is no way to suddenly change the rules.

so I buy Mastercoins. Announce an IPO. People buy Mastercoin and raise the price. Then they give me more Mastercoins. I dump mine and the raised ones and make awesome money. Additionally a couple of BTC. With the 12M$ IPO and the Msc pump and dump, I am fucking rich.

Oh my god, I hope for you this will not happen. Cruel shit.

Total market cap for safecoin is at $120m,  that's 1/2 of litecoin valuation.   So, there is some level of risk buying this.

However, I considered that these guys have been working on this for 5-6 years,  they have several papers that are quite impressive.  So, they've got the technical wherewhithal to make this work.   Now,  as far as monetization,  well,  that's always an open question.

[jibble]

If it's 50/50, then out of 455,997,071 created safecoins about 227,998,535 are reserved for BTC buyers. Let's forget bonuses and assume 17,000 safecoins per BTC. Then 227,998,535/17,000 ~ 13400 BTC is needed to finish the IPO. Only about 5K BTC is collected so far. Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing something. There was a 40% early buy in bonus. So you can't just say, "Let's forget bonuses". Redo all your math, take all the purchases so far and add 40%

the only math that needs changing is the 227,998,535/23,800 which is 9579.77 so still just over half way to the total

[evershawn]

If it's 50/50, then out of 455,997,071 created safecoins about 227,998,535 are reserved for BTC buyers. Let's forget bonuses and assume 17,000 safecoins per BTC. Then 227,998,535/17,000 ~ 13400 BTC is needed to finish the IPO. Only about 5K BTC is collected so far. Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing something. There was a 40% early buy in bonus. So you can't just say, "Let's forget bonuses". Redo all your math, take all the purchases so far and add 40%

the only math that needs changing is the 227,998,535/23,800 which is 9579.77 so still just over half way to the total

Ya, I've heard some mixed rumors about some things being converted and reselling at .2 - it's a bit confusing but I was told they are not taking anymore orders (I could be wrong) but I'm not able to buy any.

Maybe I'm missing something?

[jibble]

If it's 50/50, then out of 455,997,071 created safecoins about 227,998,535 are reserved for BTC buyers. Let's forget bonuses and assume 17,000 safecoins per BTC. Then 227,998,535/17,000 ~ 13400 BTC is needed to finish the IPO. Only about 5K BTC is collected so far. Am I missing something?

Yes, you're missing something. There was a 40% early buy in bonus. So you can't just say, "Let's forget bonuses". Redo all your math, take all the purchases so far and add 40%

the only math that needs changing is the 227,998,535/23,800 which is 9579.77 so still just over half way to the total

Ya, I've heard some mixed rumors about some things being converted and reselling at .2 - it's a bit confusing but I was told they are not taking anymore orders (I could be wrong) but I'm not able to buy any.

Maybe I'm missing something?

i am wondering the same thing, in the other post, it appears the amount of safecoin that has been distributed to just the mastercoin donations exceeds the total amount of IPO coins. not even including any bitcoin deposits yet

so there seems to be a lot of confusion going around , hopefully will be explained soon enough

[kripto]

Changing the rules in the middle of the game smells a little bit fishy.

Is there somewhere an official response/apology to all MSC buyers that were left with an investment non-option and 50% loss?

[evershawn]

Changing the rules in the middle of the game smells a little bit fishy.

Is there somewhere an official response/apology to all MSC buyers that were left with an investment non-option and 50% loss?

I am by no means saying rules were changed, I think I am just confused here so don't take my statements as that please.

[horsebox1]

I sent a bitcoin about 2 hours ago, the website says nothing about being sold out. What happens now?

[canth]

Total market cap for safecoin is at $120m,  that's 1/2 of litecoin valuation.   So, there is some level of risk buying this.

However, I considered that these guys have been working on this for 5-6 years,  they have several papers that are quite impressive.  So, they've got the technical wherewhithal to make this work.   Now,  as far as monetization,  well,  that's always an open question.

That's not quite accurate. Total market cap for Litecoin for all coins in existence (mined) is $337m. If you're going to compare market caps, there are only ~ 450m Safecoins in existence today. Many bought with MSC but using the higher price of 17000 Safecoins / BTC you get a market cap of around $13m.

Litecoin market cap: $337m
Safecoin market cap: $13m

Future market cap with all coins to come into existence based upon today's prices:

Litecoin market cap: ~ $1bn
Safecoin market cap: ~ $130m

[Jocuserious]

I sent a bitcoin about 2 hours ago, the website says nothing about being sold out. What happens now?

They said it would take approximately 24 hours for BTC addresses to be credited if I am not mistaken...

[FrictionlessCoin]

Total market cap for safecoin is at $120m,  that's 1/2 of litecoin valuation.   So, there is some level of risk buying this.

However, I considered that these guys have been working on this for 5-6 years,  they have several papers that are quite impressive.  So, they've got the technical wherewhithal to make this work.   Now,  as far as monetization,  well,  that's always an open question.

That's not quite accurate. Total market cap for Litecoin for all coins in existence (mined) is $337m. If you're going to compare market caps, there are only ~ 450m Safecoins in existence today. Many bought with MSC but using the higher price of 17000 Safecoins / BTC you get a market cap of around $13m.

Litecoin market cap: $337m
Safecoin market cap: $13m

Future market cap with all coins to come into existence based upon today's prices:

Litecoin market cap: ~ $1bn
Safecoin market cap: ~ $130m

Well you are correct there,  if you calculate mined coins up to their max # of coins and treat mining as just some kind of distribution.

[canth]

Total market cap for safecoin is at $120m,  that's 1/2 of litecoin valuation.   So, there is some level of risk buying this.

However, I considered that these guys have been working on this for 5-6 years,  they have several papers that are quite impressive.  So, they've got the technical wherewhithal to make this work.   Now,  as far as monetization,  well,  that's always an open question.

That's not quite accurate. Total market cap for Litecoin for all coins in existence (mined) is $337m. If you're going to compare market caps, there are only ~ 450m Safecoins in existence today. Many bought with MSC but using the higher price of 17000 Safecoins / BTC you get a market cap of around $13m.

Litecoin market cap: $337m
Safecoin market cap: $13m

Future market cap with all coins to come into existence based upon today's prices:

Litecoin market cap: ~ $1bn
Safecoin market cap: ~ $130m

Well you are correct there,  if you calculate mined coins up to their max # of coins and treat mining as just some kind of distribution.

Yup and that's what proof of work is - a distribution mechanism along with nifty confirmations.

I still don't know if that's a good value for what Safecoin represents though - I don't imagine any of us do until a product is released and we get a chance to see it work as well as the market dynamics for how useful it is. I'm hoping that 8 years in development means that they really do have some brilliant work done.

[dexX7]

Some observations:

 - All MaidSafeCoins are Master protocol tokens.

 - All MaidSafeCoins were sold in a crowdsale which started at blockheight 297115 and ended at blockheight 297148.

 - A timeframe of 30 days was estimated to finish the crowdsale. It took only 5 hours, 28 minutes and 40 seconds until all 450 million tokens were sold.

 - Approximately 450 million tokens were created and sold for about 94 thousand MSC. This is sligthly above the target of 429,496,729 tokens.

 - The additional 20 million tokens were probably created because the crowdsale was closed manually and a few purchase transactions confirmed before the close order became valid.

 - About 75 MSC confirmed after the crowdsale was closed. As far as I know they are going to be returned.
 
 - MaidSafeCoins sold for Bitcoin were actually bought for Mastercoin, too.

 - There seems to be a party with many MaidSafeCoins. A very wild guess: those are the tokens which are going to be distributed to BTC buyers.

 - It's unclear for me, if those tokens were already sold for BTC or if they are used to fill upcoming BTC purchases.

 - Closing the MSC crowdsale was required to cap the amount of all MaidSafeCoins and not to punish MSC holders.

 - One may argue, if it was unfortunate for MSC holders when one party buys up large amount of MaidSafeCoins. Maybe it was necessary to serve the already sold tokens to BTC buyers, maybe not.


The crowdsale was fair in the sense that anyone who wanted could have bought all MaidSafeCoins and since the crowdsale was closed due to the total amount of sold tokens, I think it's actually unfair to say "the rules and promises were broken".

Nevertheless: I'm not yet sure, if I should be happy or sad about today.

[Chang Hum]

Some observations:

 - All MaidSafeCoins are Master protocol tokens.

 - All MaidSafeCoins were sold in a crowdsale which started at blockheight 297115 and ended at blockheight 297148.

 - A timeframe of 30 days was estimated to finish the crowdsale. It took only 5 hours, 28 minutes and 40 seconds until all 450 million tokens were sold.

 - Approximately 450 million tokens were created and sold for about 94 thousand MSC. This is sligthly above the target of 429,496,729 tokens.

 - The additional 20 million tokens were probably created because the crowdsale was closed manually and a few purchase transactions confirmed before the close order became valid.

 - About 75 MSC confirmed after the crowdsale was closed. As far as I know they are going to be returned.
 
 - MaidSafeCoins sold for Bitcoin were actually bought for Mastercoin, too.

 - There seems to be a party with many MaidSafeCoins. A very wild guess: those are the tokens which are going to be distributed to BTC buyers.

 - It's unclear for me, if those tokens were already sold for BTC or if they are used to fill upcoming BTC purchases.

 - Closing the MSC crowdsale was required to cap the amount of all MaidSafeCoins and not to punish MSC holders.

 - One may argue, if it was unfortunate for MSC holders when one party buys up large amount of MaidSafeCoins. Maybe it was necessary to serve the already sold tokens to BTC buyers, maybe not.


The crowdsale was fair in the sense that anyone who wanted could have bought all MaidSafeCoins and since the crowdsale was closed due to the total amount of sold tokens, I think it's actually unfair to say "the rules and promises were broken".

Nevertheless: I'm not yet sure, if I should be happy or sad about today.

Can you work out which address should have had funds returned to it? (as it was a fixed rate it would be able to calculate how many allowed and how many to return)

It's ok found the answer on stack exchange, this explains why there's a spillover too then.

Transactions have no intrinsic total order, which would be needed to have a chronological order. Two nodes might independently create transactions a and b and send them to a common nodes N and M. N receives first a and then b, while M receives first b and then a, which would you say is the correct order?

If there were a total order it would be possible to completely avoid the double spending problem as it would immediately be clear which is the winning transaction between two conflicting ones: just pick the first.

Going back to your original question: there are two separate sets of transactions you have to consider.

Committed transactions: transactions that have appeared in a block in the longest blockchain
Transactions in the memory pool: transactions that are yet to be confirmed
bitcoind provides access to both these sets:

Use getmemorypool to get the transactions in the memory pool
Use getinfo to get the height of the latest block, and then use getblockhash + getblock to iterate through the blocks in descending order and extract the transaction hashes. Stop when you have 10'000 transactions in total.

[hamiltino]

Congratulations Dirvine and the maidsafe team on the successful IPO, you guys deserve every bit of it. I have faith maidsafe will catalyse the movement towards a decentralized internet.

[crimealone]

How can this coin keep a foothold in open source community based on trust? You promise and then deny in succession. You change the rule at will because you found that you may became the final mastercoin bag holder. It's dev's fault, but you let people who believe in you bear all this shit! Why don't you offer your proportion to people who buy mastercoin at masterxchange.com to smooth over your fault? You just stop to accept mastercoins on benefit of yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[crimealone]

Congratulations Dirvine and the maidsafe team on the successful IPO, you guys deserve every bit of it. I have faith maidsafe will catalyse the movement towards a decentralized internet.

Successful ipo? Are you kidding?
Don't you see people's complaint?

[Gaman]

This seems like a poorly done IPO

[Gaman]

Lets just hope that the business is not poor done.