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Author Topic: [XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency  (Read 4668086 times)
Hueristic
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April 17, 2015, 05:35:18 PM
 #23061

...I fail to see the problem.

This bothers me.
Quote
A serious debate is happening in an environment that's almost devoid of technical input, at least from technical people who aren't part of the intelligence establishment.
I guess I'm still steaming about the whole Bullrun thing.

Bullrun is a perfect example as to why one must never trust anything that is propriety when it comes to protecting Privacy and Liberty.

Exactly, scary Orwellian world we live in.

XMR Integration / DEMO...


KILLER!

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
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April 17, 2015, 06:20:54 PM
 #23062

There is certainly nothing wrong with using string-based numbers for accounting though. That probably the most reliable approach, and suitable for nearly all cases where performance and a possible space penalty don't matter.

Just fails on numbers like "one third", as in 1 divided by 3. Or on hitting any other prime numbers while dividing.
How about cranking up ini_set('serialize_precision', 17); and maintaining code readability? Those bcmath functions must have been a pain in the ...
salt
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April 17, 2015, 06:41:57 PM
 #23063


I never want to see this happen.  Living in NSA America is bad enough.  Liberty and Privacy first.

If one is using propriety DRM infected, locked down, systems it will happen. if one is not then it will not happen. The biggest threat to freedom coming out of the USA is not the NSA, it is the MPAA and any organization that uses DRM to "protect" its "premium" content. Understanding the real threat is the first step to dealing with it.

A very good of thumb. If your device supports DRM at the operating system level in any way then any and all information on said device is accessible to the NSA.  

Edit: Android is a perfect example. If one roots the device, a must to protect one's Liberty and Privacy, then the DRM on the device no longer "protects" the content providers. One simply cannot expect a computer or device to have two masters. The choice is DRM or Liberty and Privacy but not both.

DRM can never protect content.  The content needs to be viewed, therefore all methods required to remove DRM exist on the device.  There is nothing anyone can do to fix this - the idea of DRM is a dream. 

How will the US deal with "privacy" companies based in other countries if they go through with this? Ban all encryption software from other countries? And how will this be enforced?

Doesn't really seem possible to me.
smooth
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April 17, 2015, 07:22:48 PM
 #23064

There is certainly nothing wrong with using string-based numbers for accounting though. That probably the most reliable approach, and suitable for nearly all cases where performance and a possible space penalty don't matter.

Just fails on numbers like "one third", as in 1 divided by 3. Or on hitting any other prime numbers while dividing.
How about cranking up ini_set('serialize_precision', 17); and maintaining code readability? Those bcmath functions must have been a pain in the ...

Numbers such as 1/3 don't exist in accounting. There is always a defined precision (cents, satoshis, etc.). It is rare that you would ever do something like divide by three but if you do (e.g splitting an expense) you would need to explicitly address how to deal with the remainder to avoid books not balancing.

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April 17, 2015, 07:26:19 PM
 #23065


I never want to see this happen.  Living in NSA America is bad enough.  Liberty and Privacy first.

If one is using propriety DRM infected, locked down, systems it will happen. if one is not then it will not happen. The biggest threat to freedom coming out of the USA is not the NSA, it is the MPAA and any organization that uses DRM to "protect" its "premium" content. Understanding the real threat is the first step to dealing with it.

A very good of thumb. If your device supports DRM at the operating system level in any way then any and all information on said device is accessible to the NSA.  

Edit: Android is a perfect example. If one roots the device, a must to protect one's Liberty and Privacy, then the DRM on the device no longer "protects" the content providers. One simply cannot expect a computer or device to have two masters. The choice is DRM or Liberty and Privacy but not both.

DRM can never protect content.  The content needs to be viewed, therefore all methods required to remove DRM exist on the device.  There is nothing anyone can do to fix this - the idea of DRM is a dream. 

How will the US deal with "privacy" companies based in other countries if they go through with this? Ban all encryption software from other countries? And how will this be enforced?

Doesn't really seem possible to me.

Their goal isn't to seal all possible methods of copying; their goal is to make it enough of a pain in the ass so that most people won't do it.

And it works quite the contrary. They are making it more of a pain to actually use a genuinely bought/rented product.
I bought a CD years ago which was DRM protected. It wouldn't play on several of my devices..In particular my stereo. Geeh.. Thanks! Then you want to watch a rented movie from the video-store (making sure it's the right country code of course) and the first 15 minutes are filled with "don't copy this" warnings which you can't fast forward.  Huh

At one point it becomes much more inconvenient to use media the old way (already has for many years). And it will become more inconvenient to use the regular fiat-system than crypto-currency in the near future. And it will at some point become more inconvenient to use government proprietary means of communicating (as to obey their anti-human snoopy tendencies).
arnuschky
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April 17, 2015, 07:57:36 PM
 #23066

yeah, i found a couple tools. I've used flow charts as block diagrams, but if someone actually reads flow charts language, it could get confusing.

https://www.gliffy.com/
https://drive.draw.io/
https://www.lucidchart.com/

I think a couple of them have options for collaborative work, though I don't know how they handle version control or "pull requests".

But I agree with the hierarchy comment - it would help both newcomer developers and the noncoders (thats me!!). For instance, there was a newcomer developer that popped into #monero and #monero-dev, all gung-ho to develop. He/she was pointed in proper directions, but I don't know what happened to him/her.

But to embrace the decentralized nature of things, anyone should be able to stumble into the github via getmonero.org, see a fertile field that needs planting, and go a'forking without popping into IRC to see whats up. But I could have no idea what I'm talking about because, yah know, noob and noncoder. So I'll just go do the dishes Smiley

Google docs also allows users to work collaboratively on diagrams. It's not flow-chart focused, but it's certainly productive as you can use it also to describe architecture, code organisation etc. Also has version control of some sort, but is not really in the style of open-source development. (CK is driven off it completely, though)
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April 17, 2015, 08:22:50 PM
 #23067

There is certainly nothing wrong with using string-based numbers for accounting though. That probably the most reliable approach, and suitable for nearly all cases where performance and a possible space penalty don't matter.

Just fails on numbers like "one third", as in 1 divided by 3. Or on hitting any other prime numbers while dividing.
How about cranking up ini_set('serialize_precision', 17); and maintaining code readability? Those bcmath functions must have been a pain in the ...

Numbers such as 1/3 don't exist in accounting. There is always a defined precision (cents, satoshis, etc.). It is rare that you would ever do something like divide by three but if you do (e.g splitting an expense) you would need to explicitly address how to deal with the remainder to avoid books not balancing.


Exactly, also how is integers different anyways? It's not like you can divide 1/3 with integer any better, nor does PHP support unsigned integers so your range is limited. Too limited. Since this is a financial application, the reliability of the numbers is what matters, not readability of code.

I use wrappers to make the code more readable. But truth is I don't find bcmath to be a pain at all, I love it. I love having every single atomic unit accounted for with 100% certainty.

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April 17, 2015, 09:31:05 PM
 #23068

http://itsalmo.st/#timeformoneroversary

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April 17, 2015, 10:19:50 PM
 #23069

I use wrappers to make the code more readable. But truth is I don't find bcmath to be a pain at all, I love it. I love having every single atomic unit accounted for with 100% certainty.

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April 17, 2015, 10:50:33 PM
 #23070


Shit I will either be asleep or wishing I was. Smiley

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
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April 18, 2015, 12:00:10 AM
 #23071

Very interesting article, worth a read:

https://medium.com/zapchain-magazine/why-one-bitcoin-developer-thinks-cryptocurrencies-have-a-dreadful-future-93007cff1613

Privacy matters, use Monero - A true untraceable cryptocurrency
Why Monero matters? http://weuse.cash/2016/03/05/bitcoiners-hedge-your-position/
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April 18, 2015, 12:19:26 AM
 #23072


Interesting article. I don't necessarily agree with all the points but it does identify some real risks going forward. Alternatives such as Monero will address some but not all of these risks
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April 18, 2015, 12:56:49 AM
 #23073


Nothing new there.

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
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Want privacy? Use Monero!


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April 18, 2015, 06:22:54 AM
 #23074

OrientA
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April 18, 2015, 07:38:19 AM
 #23075

Happy Birthday and Stronger than ever! Cheesy
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April 18, 2015, 09:35:56 AM
 #23076

X-post/Monero art proposal:

https://forum.getmonero.org/16/art/270/cryptoart-the-possibility-of-a-monero-related-art-work

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April 18, 2015, 10:29:24 AM
 #23077

Happy Birthday!! donation sent, 50 Moneroj

Posted in the Hall of Fame thread  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=700400.0
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April 18, 2015, 10:34:13 AM
 #23078

Happy Birthday and Stronger than ever! Cheesy

I agree i love this coin and all the work from you guys the community, it is nothing without you, you guys rock! Happy Birthday yup yup Smiley
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April 18, 2015, 12:03:20 PM
 #23079

Happy Birth Day !!

Ok
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April 18, 2015, 12:03:33 PM
Last edit: April 18, 2015, 12:34:18 PM by rpietila
 #23080

The State of Monero in its first anniversary, April 18, 2015

Risto Pietilä, Operational Executive in MEW - Monero Economy Workgroup


Greetings,

Let us start from Bitcoin's first anniversary. There is no public post from satoshi commemorating it, and the project did not have that many public reasons for celebrating either. The difficulty had finally risen from the starting value of 1 a few days before, but the community numbered only tens of somewhat active people. Bitcoin did not have reasonable exchange value and the market cap per coins issued was about $8,000.

What happened in the following year seemed like a miracle in comparison - by its second birthday, Bitcoin was widely known around the world in techie/progressive circles, 10,000s of people had first hand experience, hashrate grew by orders of magnitude and the market cap zoomed to $5,000,000.

I would say Monero has pretty much avoided the "1st year" (or compressed it in the pre-exchange era lasting for 1 month) and zoomed directly in the 2nd year. The community is very active, and 10,000s of people have at least speculated with Monero. Just like with Bitcoin then, the use of Monero has required skill, it is a new technology, and tools to use it are only becoming available as the community develops them. The market cap is also in the same range as with Bitcoin then, with the main difference being no ninjamine - I am not accusing satoshi of doing anything immoral such as purposely hiding his project for a year, because the evidence does not suggest this - nevertheless it is good to recognize as a fact that satoshi owned 65% of all bitcoins in its first anniversary, 20% in the second, and still owns 7% (figures are minimum, additional mining with non-recognizable equipment cannot be ruled out).

From the perspective of distribution of coins and quality of the community, which I regard the topmost success factors in the cryptosphere, I am proud to believe that Monero now at least equals Bitcoin in its 2nd birthday.

Now we come to the technology. The obvious advantages of Bitcoin have only slowly become parts of the public knowledge. In any non-moderated discussion or comment section, there invariably are commenters who shout that "Bitcoin is a ponzi" (while not fulfilling any of the qualifications, starting from the lack of central issuer, or payout mechanism). Also "the Chinese will press the button and create more money" (no debunk needed) or "your balance may go poof any day" (happens sadly often, but has rarely anything to do with Bitcoin technology itself, and can mostly be avoided with precautions).

The negatives of open transaction ledger have become more apparent after Bitcoin gained wide recognition in 2013. Payments (so far) are difficult to preemptively block, but criminals and dissidents are now realizing that an untamperable public record of all your financial dealings is not really any better than a record of all your dealings in a bank account. The only difference between those is whether the public can access the information. The parties that you would rather not have the access have it in both cases.

While the general populace is still rather uncertain if the benefits of Bitcoin warrant them to try it out, this "new" information on the drawbacks of Bitcoin is spreading quickly among the people already in Bitcoin. In these conditions it is not very surprising that the BTC/USD rate has also declined and many of the leaders in Bitcoinsphere are actually short!

Monero has had intense experience of the mysterious codebase handed over to it by the CN developers, which according to David Latapie, is 86% rewritten for security reasons, while preserving the original idea by satoshi, and invention/implementation by CN, the ring signatures. During the 1 year, it has been tried to prove broken, both internally and externally, yet with quite meager results. Of all the coins in existence, my understanding is that Monero offers the most proven, most secure way to implement practical and easy-to-use anonymity.

Going to the 2nd year, the risks of some catastrophic failure in the technology are still present, but greatly reduced compared to the early days when the core team themselves only took the measures to understand the code, and there were issues with miner optimization, attacks believed to originate from the CN team, intense FUD, etc.

Pricewise, the record is mixed. Because Monero instantly grabbed the attention of many prominent bitcoiners, and went to exchange very soon, yet did not have any pre/insta/ninjamine/IPO/PoS or such things that quickly can meet the demand, its price rose quickly. The hangover came in the autumn, coupled with the depression in all crypto. Emission that in the summer could not meet the demand, was still sold to the market, and in the end, even the supporters turned to the idea of "selling now, buying back cheaper", the same that in my observation is prevalent in Bitcoin now, after their even longer and more depressing downtrend (don't get hurt!).

Such condition cannot last indefinitely, either the coin is abandoned and becomes worthless, or eventually there is a turn. Since the core team and the community showed very little signs of capitulation, it was only a matter of time, and the time came, and now we are by and large at an all time high in marketcap-measured-in-BTC, while barely started in unit-price-measured-in-USD. I don't very much care about other people's opinions (collectively reflected in these metrics), but if I did, I would regard the former as a proof of the potency of Monero and the latter as a proof of the short-term upside.

Short term, is however not the way I advise to treat Monero. Or depends in the definition. In the outside world, short term investments are a few years. Even a short-term stance towards Bitcoin has been successful, if the term is 2-3 years instead of months or weeks. Monero's development - while labeled as slow - is much faster than Bitcoin's, and that is much faster than most things outside crypto. I advise to be realistic in that anything with a $5 million market cap is likely to fail, and the total loss of investment should be almost the default. But also, the marketcap of any serious monetary system is not $5 million of current Monero, nor $5 billion of current Bitcoin, it starts at about $5 trillion of the current gold. A short-term investment of a few years is best achieved with sell targets after every rise in price (eg. 20% after every double). Even if the investment is long term, a periodic distribution of the stash is advisable, just with lower percents. Only when Monero achieves purchasing power stability can it rid itself from the speculative character, and the purchasing power stability can only be achieved at a very much higher valuation. Speculation need to be taken into account as a fact, regardless of the wish that it would not exist or be prominent.

For the following 12 months, I see that Monero needs to, and likely succeeds, in achieving the status of the "leader of the altcoins" and the "hedge of BTC". There has not been any new alts since Monero that strive to this position, all the new production is either lame clones or 2.0 coins, which serve a different need and segment. The alts currently above XMR in marketcap (filter premined&non-mineable) are Litecoin, Dogecoin and Peercoin, none of which has shown much development or innovation in the last year, and all of which being copies of BTC, suffering from the public blockchain.

The developers are clear in the development issues and they will be released when ready. While some say that mainstream adoption requires GUI and whatnot, I am strongly on the opinion that mainstream is not the target group for a currency that only has a few 10k owners atm. Increasing the valuation is a target that can be achieved by explaining the merits to the people who have money (new money VC-type guys). Increasing the adoption happens quite naturally among the BTC-owners once they have time to think about things. All alts are regarded as shitcoins by many, solely because of ignorance. The same time that, applied to my thinking, lead me to convert from mainstream to silver, and from silver to BTC, and from BTC to XMR, works also on these people, slowly. I envision that this process will start on this 2nd year of Monero, and the results are already visible as an increased marketcap by the end of the 2nd year.

HIM TVA Dragon, AOK-GM, Emperor of the Earth, Creator of the World, King of Crypto Kingdom, Lord of Malla, AOD-GEN, SA-GEN5, Ministry of Plenty (Join NOW!), Professor of Economics and Theology, Ph.D, AM, Chairman, Treasurer, Founder, CEO, 3*MG-2, 82*OHK, NKP, WTF, FFF, etc(x3)
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