[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[GreekBitcoin]

  If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry.

Real life isnt a Hollywood movie with good cop ending. No it wont  if you are clever enough.

That being said i am sure Bitcoin is enough for your needs.

[Anon136]

OK, so there is no such thing as a completely anonymous crypto coin.  I get it.  Also, like most people, I accept that if the US govt. really wants to find out what I am up to financially or otherwise, they will be able to do this.  Call me a traitor to the crypto movement, but I really don't give a rat's ass about the NSA, wikileaks, Snowden, etc.  If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry. That said, would one of you crypto nerds please answer the following question: If I become stinking rich buying XMR at current prices and decide to retire down in good old Mexico in two years (or less - more likely) with chicas and tequila, will the anonymity it does provide at least protect me from Mexican gangsters?  If you can assure me that it will, then of course I'm in.

Cryptonote does provide the promise of real anonymity. Its just a question of how high of a mixin count does the software force on everyone. Also you have to do some other things like smart ring signature matching and an alternative to payment ID's. If we do all of this and force a mixin count of something like 6 on everyone than transactions would be quite expensive, however no one, not even the nsa, could ever figure out what the heck was going on inside of our network. If you just want to protect against blanket spying but not targeted spying against specific individuals than everyone using a mixin count of 2 or 3 would probably be plenty. So its a trade off, true anonymity is possible just expensive. As for gangsters in mexico, no problem, the software in its current form could probably protect you from that.

[monoman]

Beautiful.  And so is Mexico - don't believe what you hear in the gringo news.  For my wealthy Mexican friends, anonymity in their banking business is something they have so far only been able to dream of (they can't even trust their local, poorly paid bank tellers - kidnapping is a very real, day to day fear as a consequence).  I'm in, and I'm sure they will be too.

[Johnny Mnemonic]

OK, so there is no such thing as a completely anonymous crypto coin.  I get it.  Also, like most people, I accept that if the US govt. really wants to find out what I am up to financially or otherwise, they will be able to do this.  Call me a traitor to the crypto movement, but I really don't give a rat's ass about the NSA, wikileaks, Snowden, etc.  If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry. That said, would one of you crypto nerds please answer the following question: If I become stinking rich buying XMR at current prices and decide to retire down in good old Mexico in two years (or less - more likely) with chicas and tequila, will the anonymity it does provide at least protect me from Mexican gangsters?  If you can assure me that it will, then of course I'm in.

Cryptonote does provide the promise of real anonymity. Its just a question of how high of a mixin count does the software force on everyone. Also you have to do some other things like smart ring signature matching and an alternative to payment ID's. If we do all of this and force a mixin count of something like 6 on everyone than transactions would be quite expensive, however no one, not even the nsa, could ever figure out what the heck was going on inside of our network. If you just want to protect against blanket spying but not targeted spying against specific individuals than everyone using a mixin count of 2 or 3 would probably be plenty. So its a trade off, true anonymity is possible just expensive. As for gangsters in mexico, no problem, the software in its current form could probably protect you from that.

Any mixin greater than zero is enough to provide plausible deniability in the block chain, though larger mixins provide additional security by cripling the ability to rule out other parties as possible transactors.

[Anon136]

OK, so there is no such thing as a completely anonymous crypto coin.  I get it.  Also, like most people, I accept that if the US govt. really wants to find out what I am up to financially or otherwise, they will be able to do this.  Call me a traitor to the crypto movement, but I really don't give a rat's ass about the NSA, wikileaks, Snowden, etc.  If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry. That said, would one of you crypto nerds please answer the following question: If I become stinking rich buying XMR at current prices and decide to retire down in good old Mexico in two years (or less - more likely) with chicas and tequila, will the anonymity it does provide at least protect me from Mexican gangsters?  If you can assure me that it will, then of course I'm in.

Cryptonote does provide the promise of real anonymity. Its just a question of how high of a mixin count does the software force on everyone. Also you have to do some other things like smart ring signature matching and an alternative to payment ID's. If we do all of this and force a mixin count of something like 6 on everyone than transactions would be quite expensive, however no one, not even the nsa, could ever figure out what the heck was going on inside of our network. If you just want to protect against blanket spying but not targeted spying against specific individuals than everyone using a mixin count of 2 or 3 would probably be plenty. So its a trade off, true anonymity is possible just expensive. As for gangsters in mexico, no problem, the software in its current form could probably protect you from that.

Any mixin greater than zero is enough to provide plausible deniability in the block chain, though larger mixins provide additional security by cripling the ability to rule out other parties as possible transactors.

If everyone in the network is using a mixin count that is high enough, it can go way beyond the level of plausible deniability. It can get to the point where an outside observer cant even make an educated guess as to which coins belong to whom.

[amysun]

I totally agree!
They like unacceptable acts such as stealing the coin right from the founding father’s arms (thankful-for-today) and stealing the code from BCN team ( as I  noticed)

TFT is a "founding father" for using CN open source code.
XMR Devs are "thieves" for using CN open source code.

Double standard much?

Also look up open source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

What does XMR dev team do actually?Which creatives belongs to XMR dev team?

[monoman]

 If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry.

Real life isnt a Hollywood movie with good cop ending. No it wont  if you are clever enough.

That being said i am sure Bitcoin is enough for your needs.

Using Bitcoin wanting to protect your stash from prying is a real pain because you have to take extra precautions and use other services, while with Monero you can just have one address and use different levels of mixing when sending transactions to match the level of privacy you would like to ensure, this is what bitcoin had to be since day one, but they got most of the people saying its a plus for accountability, and it really is and thats why I think bitcoin and monero will co-exist.

So let's say I get stinking rich with XMR next week, and move immediately to the Pacific coast of Mexico with the intention of sipping margaritas and watching whales from my beach hut with a chica at my side so hot I know it's only because I'm rich but I don't care because I'm just so stinking rich: will I have to wait for businesses to accept XMR directly before I can order refills (of the drinks, and possibly also the chica, if she misbehaves) online, or is there some way to tap into the already existing BTC marketplace while enjoying XMR anonymity?

[amysun]

I totally agree!
They like unacceptable acts such as stealing the coin right from the founding father’s arms (thankful-for-today) and stealing the code from BCN team ( as I  noticed)

TFT is a "founding father" for using CN open source code.
XMR Devs are "thieves" for using CN open source code.

Double standard much?

Also look up open source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_source

What does XMR dev team do actually?Which creatives belongs to XMR dev team?

go to github and see for yourself, no one has to prove anything to you or anyone here, first you need to learn how opensource works, anyway, keep crying your fud, it wont chance anything.

Sorry,I donn't know coding.Maybe it is only for skilled persons.

[Anon136]

Here is some antifud. I'm just so excited. This is the very first anonymous crypto (other than premine bytecoin). We have cryptos with anonymity (darkcoin) but a crypto with anonymity is not the same thing as a crypto that is anonymous. There is a huge difference. And so to commemorate this monumental event here is a exert from future imperfect by david d friedman.

During World War II, George Orwell wrote regular articles for Partisan Review, an American magazine. Near the end of the war, he wrote a retrospective in which he discussed what he had gotten right and what wrong.9 One of his conclusions was that he was generally right about the way the world was moving, wrong about how fast it would get there. He correctly saw the logical pattern but failed to allow for the enormous inertia of human society.

Similarly here. David Chaum’s articles laying out the groundwork for fully anonymous electronic money were published in technical journals in the 1980s and summarized in a 1992 article in Scientific American. Ever since then various people, myself among them, have been predicting the rise of ecash along the lines he sketched. While pieces of his vision have become real in other contexts, there is as yet nothing close to a fully anonymous ecash available for general use. Chaum himself, working with the Mark Twain Bank of Saint Louis, attempted to get a semi-anonymous ecash into circulation – one that permitted one party to a transaction to be identified by joint action of the other party and the bank. The effort failed and was abandoned.10

One reason it has not happened is that online commerce has only very recently become large enough to justify it. A second reason, I suspect but cannot prove, is that national governments are unhappy with the idea of a widely used money that they cannot control and so are reluctant to permit (heavily regulated) private banks to create such a money. A third and closely related reason is that a truly anonymous ecash would eliminate a profitable form of law enforcement. There is no practical way to enforce money-laundering laws once it is possible to move arbitrarily large amounts of money anywhere in the world, untraceably, with the click of a mouse. A final reason is that ecash is only useful to me if many other people are using it, which raises a problem in getting it started.

These factors have slowed the introduction of ecash. I do not think they will stop it. It only takes one country willing to permit it and one issuing institution in that country willing to issue it, to bring ecash into existence. Once it exists, it will be politically difficult for other countries to forbid their citizens from using it and practically difficult, if it is forbidden, to enforce the ban. There are a lot of countries in the world, even if we limit ourselves to ones with sufficiently stable institutions so that people elsewhere will trust their money. Hence my best guess is that some version of one of the moneys I have described in this chapter will come into existence sometime in the next decade or so.

ITS FINALLY HERE DAVID!

[aminorex]

If you're still running 32-bit, you probably are a senior or something and shouldn't be messing with magic internet money.

+1 lol

The majority of internet-connected computers are 32-bit, no PAE.

It is a serious freaking problem.

[Anon136]

If you're still running 32-bit, you probably are a senior or something and shouldn't be messing with magic internet money.

+1 lol

The majority of internet-connected computers are 32-bit, no PAE.

It is a serious freaking problem.

Well i didn't say that but i still tend to agree with it. Who the heck runs a 32 bit machine any more? Like actually tell me someone you know who does and isnt >90 years old.

[rygamble]

If you're still running 32-bit, you probably are a senior or something and shouldn't be messing with magic internet money.

+1 lol

The majority of internet-connected computers are 32-bit, no PAE.

It is a serious freaking problem.

Well i didn't say that but i still tend to agree with it. Who the heck runs a 32 bit machine any more? Like actually tell me someone you know who does and isnt >90 years old.

Most smartphones?

[aminorex]

If you're still running 32-bit, you probably are a senior or something and shouldn't be messing with magic internet money.

+1 lol

The majority of internet-connected computers are 32-bit, no PAE.

It is a serious freaking problem.

Well i didn't say that but i still tend to agree with it. Who the heck runs a 32 bit machine any more? Like actually tell me someone you know who does and isnt >90 years old.

Everyone I know has 96 cores and 256 GB RAM with 2TB SSD on their desk.  That's irrelevant.  Count the computers in India, China, Africa, South America, Eastern Europe which are running on 32-bit cpus, no PAE.  It is a big freaking problem.  Thin client does not fix the problem for them.  

I'm not upset or overly concerned about this.  It will be fixed in due time.  It is what it is.  But until it is fixed, it remains a big freaking problem.

[monoman]

  If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry.

Real life isnt a Hollywood movie with good cop ending. No it wont  if you are clever enough.

That being said i am sure Bitcoin is enough for your needs.

Using Bitcoin wanting to protect your stash from prying is a real pain because you have to take extra precautions and use other services, while with Monero you can just have one address and use different levels of mixing when sending transactions to match the level of privacy you would like to ensure, this is what bitcoin had to be since day one, but they got most of the people saying its a plus for accountability, and it really is and thats why I think bitcoin and monero will co-exist.

So let's say I get stinking rich with XMR next week, and move immediately to the Pacific coast of Mexico with the intention of sipping margaritas and watching whales from my beach hut with a chica at my side so hot I know it's only because I'm rich but I don't care because I'm just so stinking rich: will I have to wait for businesses to accept XMR directly before I can order refills (of the drinks, and possibly also the chica, if she misbehaves) online, or is there some way to tap into the already existing BTC marketplace while enjoying XMR anonymity?

good question lol, and in the scenario you get rich from XMR, it will for sure be accepted in lots of places so in the ideal world you trade services directly with xmr, otherwise you'll have to deal with xmr->btc or even xmr->btc->cash transactions.

And if the latter, will my XMR anonymity be preserved?

[Anon136]

If you're still running 32-bit, you probably are a senior or something and shouldn't be messing with magic internet money.

+1 lol

The majority of internet-connected computers are 32-bit, no PAE.

It is a serious freaking problem.

Well i didn't say that but i still tend to agree with it. Who the heck runs a 32 bit machine any more? Like actually tell me someone you know who does and isnt >90 years old.

Most smartphones?

I dont think its reasonable to expect smartphones to run full nodes either way.

[monoman]

  If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry.

Real life isnt a Hollywood movie with good cop ending. No it wont  if you are clever enough.

That being said i am sure Bitcoin is enough for your needs.

Using Bitcoin wanting to protect your stash from prying is a real pain because you have to take extra precautions and use other services, while with Monero you can just have one address and use different levels of mixing when sending transactions to match the level of privacy you would like to ensure, this is what bitcoin had to be since day one, but they got most of the people saying its a plus for accountability, and it really is and thats why I think bitcoin and monero will co-exist.

So let's say I get stinking rich with XMR next week, and move immediately to the Pacific coast of Mexico with the intention of sipping margaritas and watching whales from my beach hut with a chica at my side so hot I know it's only because I'm rich but I don't care because I'm just so stinking rich: will I have to wait for businesses to accept XMR directly before I can order refills (of the drinks, and possibly also the chica, if she misbehaves) online, or is there some way to tap into the already existing BTC marketplace while enjoying XMR anonymity?

good question lol, and in the scenario you get rich from XMR, it will for sure be accepted in lots of places so in the ideal world you trade services directly with xmr, otherwise you'll have to deal with xmr->btc or even xmr->btc->cash transactions.

And if the latter, will my XMR anonymity be preserved?

absolutely, no one will ever know the size of your original xmr stash, only possible to know is what was converted to btc and/or cash.

But that's amazing!  I'm in.  What are people waiting for?

[Anon136]

  If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry.

Real life isnt a Hollywood movie with good cop ending. No it wont  if you are clever enough.

That being said i am sure Bitcoin is enough for your needs.

Using Bitcoin wanting to protect your stash from prying is a real pain because you have to take extra precautions and use other services, while with Monero you can just have one address and use different levels of mixing when sending transactions to match the level of privacy you would like to ensure, this is what bitcoin had to be since day one, but they got most of the people saying its a plus for accountability, and it really is and thats why I think bitcoin and monero will co-exist.

So let's say I get stinking rich with XMR next week, and move immediately to the Pacific coast of Mexico with the intention of sipping margaritas and watching whales from my beach hut with a chica at my side so hot I know it's only because I'm rich but I don't care because I'm just so stinking rich: will I have to wait for businesses to accept XMR directly before I can order refills (of the drinks, and possibly also the chica, if she misbehaves) online, or is there some way to tap into the already existing BTC marketplace while enjoying XMR anonymity?

good question lol, and in the scenario you get rich from XMR, it will for sure be accepted in lots of places so in the ideal world you trade services directly with xmr, otherwise you'll have to deal with xmr->btc or even xmr->btc->cash transactions.

And if the latter, will my XMR anonymity be preserved?

absolutely, no one will ever know the size of your original xmr stash, only possible to know is what was converted to btc and/or cash.

But that's amazing!  I'm in.  What are people waiting for?

people are crazy is all. xmr is so undervalued. i suppose it simply doesnt have a flashy advertisement campaign. i hope merit can overcome its lack of marketing.

[owlcatz]

 If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry.

Real life isnt a Hollywood movie with good cop ending. No it wont  if you are clever enough.

That being said i am sure Bitcoin is enough for your needs.

Using Bitcoin wanting to protect your stash from prying is a real pain because you have to take extra precautions and use other services, while with Monero you can just have one address and use different levels of mixing when sending transactions to match the level of privacy you would like to ensure, this is what bitcoin had to be since day one, but they got most of the people saying its a plus for accountability, and it really is and thats why I think bitcoin and monero will co-exist.

So let's say I get stinking rich with XMR next week, and move immediately to the Pacific coast of Mexico with the intention of sipping margaritas and watching whales from my beach hut with a chica at my side so hot I know it's only because I'm rich but I don't care because I'm just so stinking rich: will I have to wait for businesses to accept XMR directly before I can order refills (of the drinks, and possibly also the chica, if she misbehaves) online, or is there some way to tap into the already existing BTC marketplace while enjoying XMR anonymity?

good question lol, and in the scenario you get rich from XMR, it will for sure be accepted in lots of places so in the ideal world you trade services directly with xmr, otherwise you'll have to deal with xmr->btc or even xmr->btc->cash transactions.

And if the latter, will my XMR anonymity be preserved?

absolutely, no one will ever know the size of your original xmr stash, only possible to know is what was converted to btc and/or cash.

But that's amazing!  I'm in.  What are people waiting for?

This all depends (right now at least) what country you plan on cashing out on - for example, as a us citizen, i'd have to pay major capitol gains on taxes to explain how i got so rich and moved to mexico.

Right now, in this early stage, EVERY country has differnet btc rules/laws. you can't just say oh i can cash out my xmr tomorrow on whatever exchange and get rich anonymously. where is the brain behind that idea again? sorry, just being real, cuz this seems kinda out there to me, other than the protocol and design, but still it won't help you cash out btc in the uSA right now.. just sayin.... :\  

EDIT / TL;DR - i understand the whitepaper, i'm a nerd. what I don't understand is people assuming they can cash it all out on btc anonymously. thx!

[monoman]

  If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry.

Real life isnt a Hollywood movie with good cop ending. No it wont  if you are clever enough.

That being said i am sure Bitcoin is enough for your needs.

Using Bitcoin wanting to protect your stash from prying is a real pain because you have to take extra precautions and use other services, while with Monero you can just have one address and use different levels of mixing when sending transactions to match the level of privacy you would like to ensure, this is what bitcoin had to be since day one, but they got most of the people saying its a plus for accountability, and it really is and thats why I think bitcoin and monero will co-exist.

So let's say I get stinking rich with XMR next week, and move immediately to the Pacific coast of Mexico with the intention of sipping margaritas and watching whales from my beach hut with a chica at my side so hot I know it's only because I'm rich but I don't care because I'm just so stinking rich: will I have to wait for businesses to accept XMR directly before I can order refills (of the drinks, and possibly also the chica, if she misbehaves) online, or is there some way to tap into the already existing BTC marketplace while enjoying XMR anonymity?

good question lol, and in the scenario you get rich from XMR, it will for sure be accepted in lots of places so in the ideal world you trade services directly with xmr, otherwise you'll have to deal with xmr->btc or even xmr->btc->cash transactions.

And if the latter, will my XMR anonymity be preserved?

absolutely, no one will ever know the size of your original xmr stash, only possible to know is what was converted to btc and/or cash.

But that's amazing!  I'm in.  What are people waiting for?

people are crazy is all. xmr is so undervalued. i suppose it simply doesnt have a flashy advertisement campaign. i hope merit can overcome its lack of marketing.

Call me stupid, but I actually like the Monero website: no bullshit bling, just the facts, very easy to use, and the logo looks both serious and cool.

[monoman]

 If the state really wants to come down on our freedoms, it will, sorry.

Real life isnt a Hollywood movie with good cop ending. No it wont  if you are clever enough.

That being said i am sure Bitcoin is enough for your needs.

Using Bitcoin wanting to protect your stash from prying is a real pain because you have to take extra precautions and use other services, while with Monero you can just have one address and use different levels of mixing when sending transactions to match the level of privacy you would like to ensure, this is what bitcoin had to be since day one, but they got most of the people saying its a plus for accountability, and it really is and thats why I think bitcoin and monero will co-exist.

So let's say I get stinking rich with XMR next week, and move immediately to the Pacific coast of Mexico with the intention of sipping margaritas and watching whales from my beach hut with a chica at my side so hot I know it's only because I'm rich but I don't care because I'm just so stinking rich: will I have to wait for businesses to accept XMR directly before I can order refills (of the drinks, and possibly also the chica, if she misbehaves) online, or is there some way to tap into the already existing BTC marketplace while enjoying XMR anonymity?

good question lol, and in the scenario you get rich from XMR, it will for sure be accepted in lots of places so in the ideal world you trade services directly with xmr, otherwise you'll have to deal with xmr->btc or even xmr->btc->cash transactions.

And if the latter, will my XMR anonymity be preserved?

absolutely, no one will ever know the size of your original xmr stash, only possible to know is what was converted to btc and/or cash.

But that's amazing!  I'm in.  What are people waiting for?

This all depends (right now at least) what country you plan on cashing out on - for example, as a us citizen, i'd have to pay major capitol gains on taxes to explain how i got so rich and moved to mexico.

Right now, in this early stage, EVERY country has differnet btc rules/laws. you can't just say oh i can cash out my xmr tomorrow on whatever exchange and get rich anonymously. where is the brain behind that idea again? sorry, just being real, cuz this seems kinda out there to me, other than the protocol and design, but still it won't help you cash out btc in the uSA right now.. just sayin.... :\  

EDIT / TL;DR - i understand the whitepaper, i'm a nerd. what I don't understand is people assuming they can cash it all out on btc anonymously. thx!

Who said anything about cashing out?  Why would I want to do that?  I just don't want my sweet Juanita's gangster cousin Carlos to be able to trace my latest online purchase (for which I will be happy to pay all taxes, including capital gains) back to my XMR hoard.