[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[Anon136]

Can we stop the whole bullshit about price swings and start thinking and talking about more constructive stuffs??
For example: what is a good strategy for expanding the marketplace and increasing the network effect here?

+1

Build applications.

Use your imagination. Okay maybe you (not you personally) have no imagination. Look at the first few successful applications for bitcoin and build those.

Right now we have ZERO applications. Anything would be an improvement.

Who wants to volunteer to be our DPR?

[smooth]

Hmm, im sure most miners dont know they could mine vertcoin for example and get more btc that way, then buy xmr.
I sure as hell didnt  

Most people have no clue about that stuff.

That falls squarely within the described enthusiast category. If you are a large scale miner running a major operation, it is your business to know these things.

It seems plausible and consistent with the evidence that XMR has attracted and retained a large base of small scale hobby/enthusiast/casual miners for whom their individual level of mining income isn't enough to warrant frequent monitoring and short term optimizing (i.e. constantly jumping around to each day's most profitable coin). They are happy to simply be mining a coin they perceive to have a bright future.

Combined, the number of people who have posted here about problems with pool dust (indicative of a small hash rate prior to the pool software fix) and solo mining in the wallet is small but significant. Since the vast majority of people who do anything never post about it, it is likely the number of people doing this is quite large. I have no basis to estimate a number though.

This is exactly the opposite of what the "its all botnets" (previously "its all cloud miners" and "its all secret optimized miners") anti-XMR FUDsters and sock puppets are constantly repeating.

[kbm]

I will pose - re-post - this question here, where it might get more feedback:

Why would anyone mine XMR for profit now when you can mine QuazarCoin, cash it in, and buy 30% more XMR than you can get from mining?  For that matter, Vertcoin should get you about 100% better return (GPU basis). The only rational reason to mine XMR now is because you want to help build the network - or you are just too lazy to switch coins.  

Can anyone make a rational argument against this claim:  The current hash power is almost 100% enthusiasts, who mine because of confidence, support for XMR.  (They are not  likely to be sellers.)  It makes no sense at all for any botnet to mine XMR for sale.

(Yet the current hash rate is roughly 85% of the historical high.  The depth of support this demonstrates is breathtaking.)

Last month I remember posting in IRC, around the time of the ATL that I expected 14-18M# before the end of the month (not far off). I'll try to remember the steps I took to predict that, pretty sure I put the info in a note file somewhere.

I can't currently make a rational argument against the claim though.

[aminorex]

Who wants to volunteer to be our DPR?

I think there are already plenty of DPRs.  We just lack the software required to serve that market. I suspect that when a GUI wallet is available and stable, then XMR will rapidly become a primary denomination for those markets, but not until then.  If I were selling counterfeit Euros over the Internet, my preferences would be XMR > DRK > BTC, with no fourth option.  Most dark market sellers probably would be better served by restricting the list to XMR only, but absent a nice GUI wallet, the number of buyers would tend to zero right now.

More arrests of BTC users would help a lot, although by now they are common enough not to be newsworthy.  It's sort of inevitable.

[nioc]

OK

At least the poker software is cheap.  $500 for a reliable browser client. 

[Anon136]

Who wants to volunteer to be our DPR?

I think there are already plenty of DPRs.  We just lack the software required to serve that market. I suspect that when a GUI wallet is available and stable, then XMR will rapidly become a primary denomination for those markets, but not until then.  If I were selling counterfeit Euros over the Internet, my preferences would be XMR > DRK > BTC, with no fourth option.  Most dark market sellers probably would be better served by restricting the list to XMR only, but absent a nice GUI wallet, the number of buyers would tend to zero right now.

More arrests of BTC users would help a lot, although by now they are common enough not to be newsworthy.  It's sort of inevitable.

I havn't tested it myself because im too afraid of trojans but i was under the impression that we already had a gui client.

[RentaMouse]

I see obvious applications for Monero being untraceable P2P wealth transfer and storage, something which obviously also fits in very nicely with the "dark market" type sites. Gambling sites are perfectly possible, e.g. "XMR Dice", just because people seem to like to gamble with anything they own. As a currency for general e-commerce though I dont see any great incentives to adopt it, and using merchant adoption as a measure of success would be misleading.

My general impression is that too many people here judge Monero by standards they have evolved from looking at Bitcoin clones and do not make sufficient allowance for the fact that it is still very early in the development process - it does not have a fully tested and optimised codebase to start from. In fact most of the core devs are reluctant to even describe it as at a "Beta" release level, we're talking about being somewhere in 2010 by Bitcoin standards. People back then were concerned that the price wasnt going anywhere, mining botnets and that their investment might be rendered useless by a newer and better coin coming along. I think its reasonable to expect a faster development track than Bitcoin had, because much of the path has already been mapped out, but that isnt a shortcut to avoid having to get the basics right.

One other thing, please try Jojatekok's MoneroClient wallet if you are on Windows, it is the "nice GUI wallet" that everyone keeps asking for. I've been testing it and there are still some stability issues which are mainly down to the daemon - importing an old wallet is difficult, but if you start from scratch with a new wallet then it works well.

[canonsburg]

Getting the market to accept XMR is important but it's going to be a harder task than most realize. Only BTC and to a certain extent LTC have managed to get this done.

It isn't enough for an application to be developed for merchants to accept payment in XMR. It also depends on the merchant wanting to accept XMR as a form of payment OVER all other forms of payment. A market for XMR has to be developed in close relationship with merchants for this to work.

Take for example the gun market say in the U.S. where its actually legal to own guns. (Now I don't want to discuss the legality of buying guns or the politics/ethics of buying/selling guns but merely using it as example).
Someone can buy guns with cash, or credit cards, wire, or any other traditional forms of payment. But how do you get people to want to buy with XMR?

People will want to trade if the only acceptable form of payment is XMR. So if a merchant only accepts XMR as payment, then people that want to buy that particular product will have to acquire XMR, either they already have it, mine it or buy in on the open market.

It almost makes me think of the Bitcoin ASIC market. People desire Bitcoin ASIC, they trip over themselves at the chance to be the firm to get that ASIC to literally "print money". But many Bitcoin ASIC companies prefer to take BTC as payment only. This creates a demand for BTC where there was non before. This pushes up price but more importantly creates a real demand and use case for BTC (i.e. the need to buy ASIC). Now Bitcoin ASIC companies take in payment in BTC as revenue and can use those BTC to pay people's salaries, equipment, contracts with suppliers, etc. creating a ripple of BTC usage along the way.

Now the question is how does XMR get to have a model of the "Bitcoin ASIC" model? The one I can think of is the gun market example, but only if a large, reputable gun merchant decides to take XMR as the preferred form of payment, where people that will want to buy those desired goods will have to use XMR to acquire what they want, creating the cycle of usage that will create a real market.

One problem is that XMR's price is VERY UNSTABLE. This does not make it encouraging for a merchant to use it, but if XMR can get the support of a major specific sector of the market.

Other examples are the pharmaceutical market or the commodities market.

Of course I'm no economist and my opinions may be way off but I think if Monero can focus on making buy/selling or the transfer of money easier for a certain type of market (like the ones previously stated), then it can become huge.

[smooth]

People will want to trade if the only acceptable form of payment is XMR. So if a merchant only accepts XMR as payment, then people that want to buy that particular product will have to acquire XMR, either they already have it, mine it or buy in on the open market.

This seems not to be true for BTC or even other traditional forms of payment. Many merchants accept cash or credit cards. Some people use one or some use the other. One particular method doesn't need to be the only form of payment accepted for people to use it.

Likewise, Overstock and others have gotten significant usage of BTC even though they accept other methods.

Bitcoin ASICs are a good example of a case where many vendors have indeed only accepted BTC, but that has been the exception not the rule.

[openyourmind]

Guys, Monero has the potential to become a worthy competitor to Bitcoin or not? What do you think about it?

[digitalninja81]

Guys, Monero has the potential to become a worthy competitor to Bitcoin or not? What do you think about it?

No! And XMR will never be able to become a competitor to Bitcoin because XMR is essentially a fork of Bitcoin, like other alternative cryptocurrencies. IMO, alternative cryptocurrencies has no future

[cAPSLOCK]

Guys, Monero has the potential to become a worthy competitor to Bitcoin or not? What do you think about it?

No! And XMR will never be able to become a competitor to Bitcoin because XMR is essentially a fork of Bitcoin, like other alternative cryptocurrencies. IMO, alternative cryptocurrencies has no future

In fact Monero is one of the very few cryptos which is COMPLETELY NOT based on bitcoin's code.  But your statement shows how little you know about the project.

FUnDamentally wong.

[openyourmind]

Guys, Monero has the potential to become a worthy competitor to Bitcoin or not? What do you think about it?

No! And XMR will never be able to become a competitor to Bitcoin because XMR is essentially a fork of Bitcoin, like other alternative cryptocurrencies. IMO, alternative cryptocurrencies has no future

Why do you mine coins, if you think so?
Of course, alternative crypto currencies are far from Bitcoin's development but there must be some prospects to become a means of payment. Am I wrong?

[digitalninja81]

Guys, Monero has the potential to become a worthy competitor to Bitcoin or not? What do you think about it?

No! And XMR will never be able to become a competitor to Bitcoin because XMR is essentially a fork of Bitcoin, like other alternative cryptocurrencies. IMO, alternative cryptocurrencies has no future

In fact Monero is one of the very few cryptos which is COMPLETELY NOT based on bitcoin's code.  But your statement shows how little you know about the project.

FUnDamentally wong.

Pardon, it is my fault. It is misprint.
Yes, Monero isn't a fork of Bitcoin, nevertheless the open-source code  makes Monero similar with other cryptocurrencies IMO

Guys, Monero has the potential to become a worthy competitor to Bitcoin or not? What do you think about it?

No! And XMR will never be able to become a competitor to Bitcoin because XMR is essentially a fork of Bitcoin, like other alternative cryptocurrencies. IMO, alternative cryptocurrencies has no future

Why do you mine coins, if you think so?
Of course, alternative crypto currencies are far from Bitcoin's development but there must be some prospects to become a means of payment. Am I wrong?

We are already talked about the prospects of Monero here, you should read carefully the thread.

I think that the main anchor for Monero is a team of devs, which is incompetent and lazy.

[canonsburg]

Pardon, it is my fault. It is misprint.
Yes, Monero isn't a fork of Bitcoin, nevertheless the open-source code  makes Monero similar with other cryptocurrencies IMO

WTF did I just read... this pretty much tells me all I need to know about your level of understanding of cryptos lol

[titan86]

And speaking of botnet, look what I found


https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=583449.msg7778054#msg7778054

[Rinndaranaur]

Why was coin's name changed  from MRO to XMR?

[fluffypony]

Why was coin's name changed  from MRO to XMR?

To comply with the ISO 4217 standard.

[fluffypony]

We are already talked about the prospects of Monero here, you should read carefully the thread.

I think that the main anchor for Monero is a team of devs, which is incompetent and lazy.

Thanks for providing me with my Sunday morning chuckle:) Nobody has ever described me as being incompetent or lazy (except when it comes to the gym), so it's good to know that I have someone who can psychoanalyse me and the rest of the core team from a handful of posts on Bitcointalk, and come to conclusions that not even our wives/girlfriends/mothers have reached.

[statdude]

We are already talked about the prospects of Monero here, you should read carefully the thread.

I think that the main anchor for Monero is a team of devs, which is incompetent and lazy.

Thanks for providing me with my Sunday morning chuckle:) Nobody has ever described me as being incompetent or lazy (except when it comes to the gym), so it's good to know that I have someone who can psychoanalyse me and the rest of the core team from a handful of posts on Bitcointalk, and come to conclusions that not even our wives/girlfriends/mothers have reached.

Fluffy, please ignore these dumbass comments, we believe in you guys