[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[thefunkybits]

Where did you see the volume for the last 30 days? I can't find the site.

www.bitcoinwisdom.com

[Mumbles]

The A/B testing and user experience sessions are fine and good practices in general. I just really disagree that privacy settings or some "mixin value" that the average user has no idea what it does, makes any sense to expose at the UI level for 95% of users. You are likely to confuse or sow doubt much more than educate or help them.

I would rather see the dev team spend their limited time and resources on other much more important things than to try and test this. Of course so much depends on who your user base is when you bring them in for testing, but if you picked "real" users, such as soccer Moms and facebook teens, and grandmas, I feel very confident that none of them would a) want to think about what level of mixin to pick and b) would feel comfortable having to make that decision, and c) are likely to be scared of making a wrong choice, thus destroying the easy to use purpose of the GUI. Since there is no "right" answer, the software should hide the complexity from the user and pick a "good" value. Let the experts or advanced users worry about what mixin level matters to them. Grandma don't care (or want to care)!

Well, there are two different things you are trying to solve here.

1) Ease of use

2) Not having all transactions at the same mixin level

I don't think pushing the burden of 2 on to the average user is the way to solve it. Its a highly technical detail that 95% of users (or more) are not going to understand or want to think about, and it will constantly make them wonder if they are "doing the right thing" or if their transaction is secure enough. Could even discourage use.

The average user is completely ignorant and scared of technology. They know how to turn on their PCs, click the email icons, and that's about it. Thats not an insult to them. They are experts at their day job being doctors, lawyers, etc... but they just don't have any desire or understanding of tech in general. Given that the GUI wallet's purpose is to remove the complexity and make Monero accessible to the masses (if that's possible), then I would really focus on removing any "cognitive load" on the user. Don't force them to think about things that they can't possible understand anyway.

Perhaps a good solution would be to automatically randomize the mix in value between an upper and lower bound and not expose it at all to the end user. Advanced users that want to specifiy a certain value can do so in their preferences or an advanced options screen.

Once we have the entire interface completed we'll do interface testing with testing groups made up of people in multiple countries from all sorts of backgrounds, so we'll have a good cross-section. Typically they have a series of tasks to perform with no education or training on how to use the product or even what it is. We film them over their shoulder to see how they react and where they get frustrated. During this process we can do A/B testing with the privacy bar on/off between two groups, and then we'll have some tangible feedback as to what works and what doesn't. Should give us some direction as to what to do with that:)

[rpietila]

The A/B testing and user experience sessions are fine and good practices in general. I just really disagree that privacy settings or some "mixin value" that the average user has no idea what it does, makes any sense to expose at the UI level for 95% of users. You are likely to confuse or sow doubt much more than educate or help them.

What are the reasons why anyone would ever select anything except the best mixing value? Does it cost something?

[smooth]

The A/B testing and user experience sessions are fine and good practices in general. I just really disagree that privacy settings or some "mixin value" that the average user has no idea what it does, makes any sense to expose at the UI level for 95% of users. You are likely to confuse or sow doubt much more than educate or help them.

What are the reasons why anyone would ever select anything except the best mixing value? Does it cost something?

The higher the mix the bigger the transaction. That means it takes up more block space. In the medium term that will cost more in fees, although perhaps longer term Gavin's new block transmission algorithm could reduce or eliminate that.

EDIT: Also, if most transactions are mix 3 and you use mix 100 instead, you are perhaps calling more attention to your transaction. Whether that attention matters is questionable, but you may still prefer to stay in the weeds and use what everyone else is using, especially if the commonly used mixes already provide a high level of untraceability. We are still studying the math on this.

[fluffypony]

The A/B testing and user experience sessions are fine and good practices in general. I just really disagree that privacy settings or some "mixin value" that the average user has no idea what it does, makes any sense to expose at the UI level for 95% of users. You are likely to confuse or sow doubt much more than educate or help them.

What are the reasons why anyone would ever select anything except the best mixing value? Does it cost something?

As smooth pointed out, it leads to a bigger transaction. Right now we're on fixed transaction fees, but once we move to a per-kb model that will change. The higher the mixin, the higher the fee.

[lenhi426]

This algorithm has power consumption than x11 not you?

[Atrides]

I have released Monero stratum proxy (open source).

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=735738.msg8310952#msg8310952

[Hueristic]

This algorithm has power consumption than x11 not you?

Indecipherable gibberish.

[fluffypony]

This algorithm has power consumption than x11 not you?

Indecipherable gibberish.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

[aminorex]

This algorithm has power consumption than x11 not you?

Indecipherable gibberish.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

[Brilliantrocket]

How much hash/s do you need to get 1 XMR per day?

[fluffypony]

How much hash/s do you need to get 1 XMR per day?

It would depend on difficulty - per http://dwarfpool.com/xmr/calc it looks like 1000h/s (1kh/s on the calculator) will net you around 1 XMR a day.

[r05]

This algorithm has power consumption than x11 not you?

Indecipherable gibberish.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

I for one have done just that. I think it's a great idea and we all need to get behind it.

[Triffin]

This algorithm has power consumption than x11 not you?

Indecipherable gibberish.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

How in the world did you guess my NXT  'secret phrase' ?? 

Triff ..

[blaaaaacksuit]

This algorithm has power consumption than x11 not you?

Indecipherable gibberish.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

You've got to be kidding me. I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like. It's just common sense.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.

I don't think you understand what's being said.  When deciding to it goesing back up, far away becoming localized.  Decisions making it look like more to anyone else can't be decided.  I hope this clears up any misunderstanding,  it's like english is your second language or something. 

[drawingthesun]

Bytecoin soon to have multi sig

— Multi-signatures

[eizh]

Bytecoin soon to have multi sig

— Multi-signatures

https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=257#p857

This version won't be untraceable (i.e. ring signatures with non-zero mixin) but it's still unlinkable (one-time addresses). However, they noted "the data structures were designed in such a way as to allow for untraceability via ringsigs in the future."

[drawingthesun]

Bytecoin soon to have multi sig

— Multi-signatures

https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=257#p857

This version won't be untraceable (i.e. ring signatures with non-zero mixin) but it's still unlinkable (one-time addresses). However, they noted "the data structures were designed in such a way as to allow for untraceability via ringsigs in the future."

I wonder if it's possible to take what they have done and push it forward to make it untraceable. Is this a hard problem?

[smooth]

Bytecoin soon to have multi sig

— Multi-signatures

https://forum.cryptonote.org/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=257#p857

This version won't be untraceable (i.e. ring signatures with non-zero mixin) but it's still unlinkable (one-time addresses). However, they noted "the data structures were designed in such a way as to allow for untraceability via ringsigs in the future."

I wonder if it's possible to take what they have done and push it forward to make it untraceable. Is this a hard problem?

It is not trivial. We think it is solvable.

However, there is always a work around which is to surround the traceable transaction between two untraceable ones. (In some cases only one is needed.) That prevents tracing, though at some increased cost in transaction fees.

[Hueristic]

This algorithm has power consumption than x11 not you?

Indecipherable gibberish.

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like?

ROTFHRMGFFD!