[XMR] Monero - A secure, private, untraceable cryptocurrency

[wachtwoord]

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

[owlcatz]

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Awesome analogy Risto, i hadn't thought of that way until now, but i agree 100%. (Well, unless you've been tax dodging for years and are looking at time in federal prison or something crazy)!

[owlcatz]

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

I like this conversation!  Can you elaborate on how "This is just not how logic works though"?

edit - I don't believe in god, so i can't relate to that argument at all, and i don't believe most if not all alt-coins have any chances against either btc or xmr right now, but that's just my opinion.

Disclaimer - I only hold Bitcoin and Monero as well. Seems to be common around here for some reason..

Thanks!

[wachtwoord]

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

I like this conversation!  Can you elaborate on how "This is just not how logic works though"?

edit - I don't believe in god, so i can't relate to that argument at all, and i don't believe most if not all alt-coins have any chances against either btc or xmr right now, but that's just my opinion.

Disclaimer - I only hold Bitcoin and Monero as well. Seems to be common around here for some reason..

Thanks!

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager It's one of the most famous examples of incorrectly applied logic.

[blaaaaacksuit]

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

Disclaimer - I only hold Bitcoin and Monero as well. Seems to be common around here for some reason..

Thanks!

Not holding Fckbanks coin?  Sheesh.  It's like you don't want to make money bro.  Going to miss the train!

[wachtwoord]

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

Disclaimer - I only hold Bitcoin and Monero as well. Seems to be common around here for some reason..

Thanks!

Not holding Fckbanks coin?  Sheesh.  It's like you don't want to make money bro.  Going to miss the train!

Lol that name. At least spell fuck properly for fck's sake

[owlcatz]

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

Yes, but the same is true for any other altcoin (even the most junky ones), the same is true for the existence of any god. This is just not how logic works though.

Mind that Bitcoin and Monero are the only cryptocurrencies I currently hold.

Disclaimer - I only hold Bitcoin and Monero as well. Seems to be common around here for some reason..

Thanks!

Not holding Fckbanks coin?  Sheesh.  It's like you don't want to make money bro.  Going to miss the train!

Lol that name. At least spell fuck properly for fck's sake

LFMAO... nah man, i'm good. i'm not out to get rich quick here, im in it to win it, done with alt/scam coins. and i am definitely not buying anything named Fckbanks... fck me!?

[owlcatz]

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager It's one of the most famous examples of incorrectly applied logic.

Ah.. thanks, makes sense now. Even though i'm an atheist and don't believe in either, i get it. but still. I'm with Risto on this one, guess i'm nuts too. time will tell and maybe you can come back someday and say "Hey yo, i was right, and you ignored me!" ...

[wachtwoord]

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager It's one of the most famous examples of incorrectly applied logic.

Ah.. thanks, makes sense now. Even though i'm an atheist and don't believe in either, i get it. but still. I'm with Risto on this one, guess i'm nuts too. time will tell and maybe you can come back someday and say "Hey yo, i was right, and you ignored me!" ...

How could I say that? I'm not saying Monero is bad. I'm saying this specific reasoning is wrong.

[Majormax]

The risk of not holding monero is infinitely bigger than that of holding it.

With not holding, you can lose a sum equal to 1000x your net worth.

With holding, you can maximum lose the amount invested.

Sounds like Pascal's wager. That can never be the reason to do it.

I may be strange in that it seems perfectly valid to me. I pay taxes, because by paying, I lose only the sum invested, but by not paying, I risk unforeseen consequences. With Monero there is at least some upside, unlike in paying taxes which is a genuine lose-lose...

The same is true of many alternative cryptocurrencies. Whilst there are a lot of hopeless ones, you can never tell what circumstances will lead to a winner. Some great ideas just fail for reasons beyond their control, or from competition and changing conditions. Naturally everyone thinks theirs is the best, and very few people have done proper investigation of all coins.

So therefore, I believe , to truly mitigate that risk, you need to hold 50+ different altcoins, carefully researched and selected. That dilutes the ROI a bit.

[owlcatz]

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_Wager It's one of the most famous examples of incorrectly applied logic.

Ah.. thanks, makes sense now. Even though i'm an atheist and don't believe in either, i get it. but still. I'm with Risto on this one, guess i'm nuts too. time will tell and maybe you can come back someday and say "Hey yo, i was right, and you ignored me!" ...

How could I say that? I'm not saying Monero is bad. I'm saying this specific reasoning is wrong.

I'm sorry, that is exactly what i meant, i was not clear, it was not about monero, but about Pascal's wager and the reasoning/logic etc.  thanks again for the link, very good stuff, never heard of it before.

[blaaaaacksuit]

LFMAO... nah man, i'm good. i'm not out to get rich quick here, im in it to win it, done with alt/scam coins. and i am definitely not buying anything named Fckbanks... fck me!?

Did even one person "invest" in that coin?  Oh well, I guess if you look at it one way, a person could benefit from the endless sea of shitcoins in that they more effectively hide gems like XMR at first so that early adopters who know what to look for can buy large amounts for cheap early on.  

[statdude]

Update:

Survey Link:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/10FFq_viVaY_THsToPNEwgTxrBSGVxW1EzeYPHX_2nuQ/viewform?usp=send_form

Count     119
Average   7,935
Median   2,080

New Update:
Count    139
Average 7,554
Median 1,500

[owlcatz]

Update:

Survey Link:

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/10FFq_viVaY_THsToPNEwgTxrBSGVxW1EzeYPHX_2nuQ/viewform?usp=send_form

Count     119
Average   7,935
Median   2,080

New Update:
Count    139
Average 7,554
Median 1,500

Thanks Risto, i missed the survey earlier but just added myself. thanks again for all you do here!

[statdude]

Median by month (starting April): 6851,3049,5135,1478,524
Count by month (starting April): 19,28,28,17,9

[myagui]

@statdude:
Do you think you could also post the relative % of the emitted coins that is represented in your stats? Think it would just be interesting to learn what percentage of the monero currently in circulation is being represented/stated by people filling the form.

Cheers,
~ Myagui

[mmmaybe]

@statdude:
Do you think you could also post the relative % of the emitted coins that is represented in your stats? Think it would just be interesting to learn what percentage of the monero currently in circulation is being represented/stated by people filling the form.

Cheers,
~ Myagui

+1

That would be a great feature 

[pa]

Since some of the Bytecoin/CryptoNote devs seem to have been scammers, how can we trust that the elliptic curve constants in Monero were not chosen maliciously? If they were chosen maliciously, could that be determined somehow? Should a new curve be chosen, just in case?

I'm not a cryptographer, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question.

[owlcatz]

Since some of the Bytecoin/CryptoNote devs seem to have been scammers, how can we trust that the elliptic curve constants in Monero were not chosen maliciously? If they were chosen maliciously, could that be determined somehow? Should a new curve be chosen, just in case?

I'm not a cryptographer, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question.

Hi. I have read about that as well, as i've read all the whitepapers and the phony bcn premine based on rethink-your-strategy's epic post about it etc, but I keep forgetting to ask any devs here. Fluffy, smooth, taco.. can anyone elaborate on your mathematician's review of the code in that regard to constants from nowhere, or what you think/are planning/whatever/to do about it? they seem very wary about those constants and why they were chosen, like suggesting maybe NSA etc.

i do know some C, but i'm old/rusty, so i never looked at any of the code based on the fact that i heard it was an absolute mess to undo.

thank you!

[smooth]

Since some of the Bytecoin/CryptoNote devs seem to have been scammers, how can we trust that the elliptic curve constants in Monero were not chosen maliciously? If they were chosen maliciously, could that be determined somehow? Should a new curve be chosen, just in case?

I'm not a cryptographer, so please excuse me if this is a stupid question.

Hi. I have read about that as well, as i've read all the whitepapers and the phony bcn premine based on rethink-your-strategy's epic post about it etc, but I keep forgetting to ask any devs here. Fluffy, smooth, taco.. can anyone elaborate on your mathematician's review of the code in that regard to constants from nowhere? they seem very wary about those constants and why they were chosen etc.

i do know some C, but i'm old/rusty, so i never looked at any of the code based on the fact that i heard it was an absolute mess to undo.

thank you!

The cryptography primitives are being carefully reviewed right now. Reviewing the cryptography code was the next planned step after reviewing the white paper.

We have not discovered anything dangerous, yet, but we are still looking.