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Author Topic: [ANN] [SFR] SaffronCoin | Latest Version - 1.4.2/2.6.2 | Mandatory Wallet Update  (Read 437746 times)
vipin.khatri20
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July 10, 2014, 10:19:04 AM
 #1621

In fact I would say it's time to make our coin rewarding for both miners and investors by adding POS on top of POW. Like coin Viking suggested POS network can be used for small and faster transactions which can be used for day to day shopping etc and POW network for large transactions. You can divide supply equally between two and miners can have extra benefit if they keep their coins instead of dumping and investors like me can also get some rewards by keeping my coins and contribute to network.
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cryptoholic11
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July 10, 2014, 10:20:57 AM
 #1622

@Vipin +1

saffroncoin (OP)
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July 10, 2014, 10:27:12 AM
 #1623

In fact I would say it's time to make our coin rewarding for both miners and investors by adding POS on top of POW. Like coin Viking suggested POS network can be used for small and faster transactions which can be used for day to day shopping etc and POW network for large transactions. You can divide supply equally between two and miners can have extra benefit if they keep their coins instead of dumping and investors like me can also get some rewards by keeping my coins and contribute to network.

Including POS from start is ok but hardforking and including POS could break the coin.
We need to decide on this with a cool head and have ample amount of time. Right now we do not have that much time. POS could be more of a medium term feature since it has to be implemented very carefully from a technical point of view.
For now we need to implement features that make digital currency payment easy for people and make SFR not just a coin to buy low and sell high.
saffroncoin (OP)
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July 10, 2014, 10:34:50 AM
 #1624

SFR has just been added to bitcoinbeeper.com. It is a great looking site that sets alarms for your trades so you don't sleep through another trade.
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July 10, 2014, 10:35:41 AM
 #1625

The best features to adopt are from VRC CLOAK and XC atm. Imho, XC has the best features as a "currency" compared to the others. They announced OneWallet card in tangent with an ATM system, more info here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.new#new. If you guys can implement the best features from the coins mentioned, and maybe give it your own twist and not just copy and paste, SFR would be the best. Just my thoughts. And above all, marketing is the most important. If you create the best coin there is and nobody finds out about it, its as good as dead. Hiring a professional marketing team maybe?

vipin.khatri20
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July 10, 2014, 10:37:28 AM
 #1626

In fact I would say it's time to make our coin rewarding for both miners and investors by adding POS on top of POW. Like coin Viking suggested POS network can be used for small and faster transactions which can be used for day to day shopping etc and POW network for large transactions. You can divide supply equally between two and miners can have extra benefit if they keep their coins instead of dumping and investors like me can also get some rewards by keeping my coins and contribute to network.

Including POS from start is ok but hardforking and including POS could break the coin.
We need to decide on this with a cool head and have ample amount of time. Right now we do not have that much time. POS could be more of a medium term feature since it has to be implemented very carefully from a technical point of view.
For now we need to implement features that make digital currency payment easy for people and make SFR not just a coin to buy low and sell high.

Okay no problem if you even do it in med term it will be good but at least it would be better if you  reduce daily supply. It will help SFR to attract more investors.
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July 10, 2014, 10:40:36 AM
 #1627

The best features to adopt are from VRC CLOAK and XC atm. Imho, XC has the best features as a "currency" compared to the others. They announced OneWallet card in tangent with an ATM system, more info here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.new#new. If you guys can implement the best features from the coins mentioned, and maybe give it your own twist and not just copy and paste, SFR would be the best. Just my thoughts. And above all, marketing is the most important. If you create the best coin there is and nobody finds out about it, its as good as dead. Hiring a professional marketing team maybe?

+1. I think market these days catches good ones automatically. If we have good features and features which are in demand , it will create volume, if SFR volume nobody can ignore it. But yeah may be at later stage marketing team might be necessary.
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July 10, 2014, 10:41:45 AM
 #1628

oh cmon! we definitely dont need PoS!
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July 10, 2014, 10:45:39 AM
 #1629

oh cmon! we definitely dont need PoS!

Can I know the reasons for your argument.

Thanks .
saffroncoin (OP)
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July 10, 2014, 10:46:33 AM
 #1630

The best features to adopt are from VRC CLOAK and XC atm. Imho, XC has the best features as a "currency" compared to the others. They announced OneWallet card in tangent with an ATM system, more info here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.new#new. If you guys can implement the best features from the coins mentioned, and maybe give it your own twist and not just copy and paste, SFR would be the best. Just my thoughts. And above all, marketing is the most important. If you create the best coin there is and nobody finds out about it, its as good as dead. Hiring a professional marketing team maybe?


Yes we will hire one in due time. We do not want to "adopt" much from other coins. We believe the roadmap that we have laid out is itself pretty unique and awesome. It is all about implementing it in the available time.

But there are few features like Veribit which have got us interested for short term so we will be looking to implement something like that.

We will constantly be including the stuff which is hot in market at that moment and is feasible so we don't end up bloating the coin.
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July 10, 2014, 10:50:59 AM
 #1631

sorry, i didnt really mean adopt as that implies a copy and paste. I merely meant to take a good idea and innovate it, maybe improve it, where you have your own unique product/feature. Watching your best competition and seeing what they do is almost mandatory. Not only do you stay ahead of the game, but sometimes your competition can give you ideas which you might be able to improve upon or inspire completely new innovative ideas.

saffroncoin (OP)
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July 10, 2014, 10:53:27 AM
 #1632

Yep that's true! If something catches our eye, we will try to improve it if possible and implement it!
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July 10, 2014, 11:06:54 AM
 #1633

Thanks goodluckpool!
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July 10, 2014, 01:43:19 PM
 #1634

The best features to adopt are from VRC CLOAK and XC atm. Imho, XC has the best features as a "currency" compared to the others. They announced OneWallet card in tangent with an ATM system, more info here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.new#new. If you guys can implement the best features from the coins mentioned, and maybe give it your own twist and not just copy and paste, SFR would be the best. Just my thoughts. And above all, marketing is the most important. If you create the best coin there is and nobody finds out about it, its as good as dead. Hiring a professional marketing team maybe?


Yes we will hire one in due time. We do not want to "adopt" much from other coins. We believe the roadmap that we have laid out is itself pretty unique and awesome. It is all about implementing it in the available time.

But there are few features like Veribit which have got us interested for short term so we will be looking to implement something like that.

We will constantly be including the stuff which is hot in market at that moment and is feasible so we don't end up bloating the coin.


Hi Dev, could you please let us know what is the time frame for reducing the coin supply? I know that a lot of investors are pretty nervous at the moment especially looking at coins such as Vertcoin and Myriad who  failed to address this problem in due time. Thanks a lot and keep up the good work!

Edit: Would you perhaps consider controlling the block rewards in similar fashion like DarkCoin where less coins are produced when the hash rate increases? This contributes really well to reducing inflation.
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July 10, 2014, 01:48:47 PM
 #1635

I really like your approach as a dev!
And I'm also surprised with the lack of interest from the crypto community. You definitely need better exposure!

What are your plans about cryptoxindia.com? Are you considering teaming up with unocoin.com at the same time (at least getting SFR on unocoin before launching your own exchange)?

You're doing a lot of work but it's not recognised by the market at all...
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July 10, 2014, 01:49:30 PM
 #1636

oh cmon! we definitely dont need PoS!

Can I know the reasons for your argument.

Thanks .

Copypasting some wise words(its about pure PoS coins but still worth reading):

"Proof of Stake coins have many issues here are some:

PoS is not backed by anything other than the belief there are worth anything and there will be an endless supply of PoS coins because one created today does not have a significant advantage over on created tomorrow, next week, next month.......
What currently is happening is new coins are created with PoW, mined for a week until a fixed number is reached and then change to PoS and then you can claim your stake at buying xyz coin. The only advantage a coin released today has over on made sometime in the future is; somebody already bought into it. The advantage quickly disappears if the new coin has a better catch phrase a flashier webpage or bigger marketing capital....
There is no end in sight for stake claimed coins and all promising x % return if you know a bit of programming you will have your very one coin too and everyone can buy into your claim based coin completely deluding the marked.
Its a barrel without bottom and once it clicks by the herd run for the hills if you own a stake.   
 
With a PoS the richer get richer. The most significant flaw of any proof-of-stake system and any system that diminishes coin rewards, is it can't distribute currency from the hoarders to the users of the currency, thus it will end up with the hoarders (the banksters) accumulating all the coin and the currency usage dying.
This is because the wealthy spend a much lower % of their net worth than the masses do

PoS is a technological dead end. Once the coin is released the only thing to do is "claim your stake" no research, no new capital outside the buy in, no evolving industry..

PoS can NEVER remain decentralized. Satoshi's Proof-of-Work is the only known solution to the Byzantine General's Problem (was a known unsolved problem since at least the 1970s).

To 51% PoS is dead easy:
You start buying aggressively or "willy" style until you have 51% of a PoS coin, and then sell off your coins so that you no longer have 51%, but your history of having once owned 51% makes it possible to attack the network at any time in the future at next to no cost only some computing resources (and thus electricity costs, etc.).
As you once had a 51% stake, you can build a better blockchain than the other 49% can, starting from the point where you owned 51%. You develop this blockchain in secret, after you have sold off your coins (and profiting from it); and then release your secret blockchain to the world, and nodes will pick it up because it carries more stake than the 49% blockchain.  Now not only do you have your profit from the original sales of the coin, you have your 51% back (to the extent that it's worth anything).  Not all coins need to be in one address, in fact, doing so would prevent the attack in most PoS implementations.
Unlike bitcoin where everyone can see if anyone comes dangerously close to 51, in PoS its all hidden, an attack can and will happen incognito.
There is no way of knowing if any PoS chain is already "dead", as it could have been done at any-time in the past..   

But then there's is also the social 51% attack where a tiny majority hold a massive percentage of the currency. When this occurs the market is open to extensive manipulation for the benefit of the few, as with real world economics (the 1%).
NXT is a good example of the social 51% attack, the top 33 accounts hold 51% between them. The top 50 accounts hold 61.2%. I'm quite sure the top 1% of accounts (400 ish) hold almost everything, with the other 99% playing with spare change.

PoW is a promise that x amount of energy has and will be used to make the coinis backed by energy, and energy is the only truly universally accepted wealth. There is no better backing than energy because everyone needs it, wants it and i will never have any problem selling it. To create a PoW coin you need x amount of energy and you can not cheat. The best you can hope for is to have  a more efficient miner. Because the energy has been spent, the coin has a base value (many other things on top) and is a kind of a storage of it which you can exchange.
(The same apply's for gold digging it up, storing..... only difference is it is awkward to exchange)
Remember u can't create something without work. This is simple physics. There is financial commitment in proof of work which gives it value."
saffroncoin (OP)
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July 10, 2014, 01:49:50 PM
 #1637

As soon as we have SFRBit ready. May be about a week after which we start discussing with the community about how much we can control.
saffroncoin (OP)
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July 10, 2014, 01:52:21 PM
 #1638

The best features to adopt are from VRC CLOAK and XC atm. Imho, XC has the best features as a "currency" compared to the others. They announced OneWallet card in tangent with an ATM system, more info here https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.new#new. If you guys can implement the best features from the coins mentioned, and maybe give it your own twist and not just copy and paste, SFR would be the best. Just my thoughts. And above all, marketing is the most important. If you create the best coin there is and nobody finds out about it, its as good as dead. Hiring a professional marketing team maybe?


Yes we will hire one in due time. We do not want to "adopt" much from other coins. We believe the roadmap that we have laid out is itself pretty unique and awesome. It is all about implementing it in the available time.

But there are few features like Veribit which have got us interested for short term so we will be looking to implement something like that.

We will constantly be including the stuff which is hot in market at that moment and is feasible so we don't end up bloating the coin.


Hi Dev, could you please let us know what is the time frame for reducing the coin supply? I know that a lot of investors are pretty nervous at the moment especially looking at coins such as Vertcoin and Myriad who  failed to address this problem in due time. Thanks a lot and keep up the good work!

Edit: Would you perhaps consider controlling the block rewards in similar fashion like DarkCoin where less coins are produced when the hash rate increases? This contributes really well to reducing inflation.

We have spoken about it internally with some members about using drk control mechanism. I can be more sure about it in a week's time.
saffroncoin (OP)
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July 10, 2014, 02:02:34 PM
 #1639

I really like your approach as a dev!
And I'm also surprised with the lack of interest from the crypto community. You definitely need better exposure!

What are your plans about cryptoxindia.com? Are you considering teaming up with unocoin.com at the same time (at least getting SFR on unocoin before launching your own exchange)?

You're doing a lot of work but it's not recognised by the market at all...

Thanks for your words. We did get recognized a few weeks ago where our prices went up by 4000% but due to some miscommunication and some prob with the whitepaper we had a huge dump. But many from that day still support us and we have a good community.
We are trying to do all we can to get back on track and we are pretty sure we will do it soon.

Cryptoxindia.com will be developed. But we will create a decentralised version of it in the wallet.

I will be meeting unocoin on 27th again.
vipin.khatri20
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July 10, 2014, 04:27:02 PM
 #1640

oh cmon! we definitely dont need PoS!

Can I know the reasons for your argument.

Thanks .

Copypasting some wise words(its about pure PoS coins but still worth reading):

"Proof of Stake coins have many issues here are some:

PoS is not backed by anything other than the belief there are worth anything and there will be an endless supply of PoS coins because one created today does not have a significant advantage over on created tomorrow, next week, next month.......
What currently is happening is new coins are created with PoW, mined for a week until a fixed number is reached and then change to PoS and then you can claim your stake at buying xyz coin. The only advantage a coin released today has over on made sometime in the future is; somebody already bought into it. The advantage quickly disappears if the new coin has a better catch phrase a flashier webpage or bigger marketing capital....
There is no end in sight for stake claimed coins and all promising x % return if you know a bit of programming you will have your very one coin too and everyone can buy into your claim based coin completely deluding the marked.
Its a barrel without bottom and once it clicks by the herd run for the hills if you own a stake.   
 
With a PoS the richer get richer. The most significant flaw of any proof-of-stake system and any system that diminishes coin rewards, is it can't distribute currency from the hoarders to the users of the currency, thus it will end up with the hoarders (the banksters) accumulating all the coin and the currency usage dying.
This is because the wealthy spend a much lower % of their net worth than the masses do

PoS is a technological dead end. Once the coin is released the only thing to do is "claim your stake" no research, no new capital outside the buy in, no evolving industry..

PoS can NEVER remain decentralized. Satoshi's Proof-of-Work is the only known solution to the Byzantine General's Problem (was a known unsolved problem since at least the 1970s).

To 51% PoS is dead easy:
You start buying aggressively or "willy" style until you have 51% of a PoS coin, and then sell off your coins so that you no longer have 51%, but your history of having once owned 51% makes it possible to attack the network at any time in the future at next to no cost only some computing resources (and thus electricity costs, etc.).
As you once had a 51% stake, you can build a better blockchain than the other 49% can, starting from the point where you owned 51%. You develop this blockchain in secret, after you have sold off your coins (and profiting from it); and then release your secret blockchain to the world, and nodes will pick it up because it carries more stake than the 49% blockchain.  Now not only do you have your profit from the original sales of the coin, you have your 51% back (to the extent that it's worth anything).  Not all coins need to be in one address, in fact, doing so would prevent the attack in most PoS implementations.
Unlike bitcoin where everyone can see if anyone comes dangerously close to 51, in PoS its all hidden, an attack can and will happen incognito.
There is no way of knowing if any PoS chain is already "dead", as it could have been done at any-time in the past..   

But then there's is also the social 51% attack where a tiny majority hold a massive percentage of the currency. When this occurs the market is open to extensive manipulation for the benefit of the few, as with real world economics (the 1%).
NXT is a good example of the social 51% attack, the top 33 accounts hold 51% between them. The top 50 accounts hold 61.2%. I'm quite sure the top 1% of accounts (400 ish) hold almost everything, with the other 99% playing with spare change.

PoW is a promise that x amount of energy has and will be used to make the coinis backed by energy, and energy is the only truly universally accepted wealth. There is no better backing than energy because everyone needs it, wants it and i will never have any problem selling it. To create a PoW coin you need x amount of energy and you can not cheat. The best you can hope for is to have  a more efficient miner. Because the energy has been spent, the coin has a base value (many other things on top) and is a kind of a storage of it which you can exchange.
(The same apply's for gold digging it up, storing..... only difference is it is awkward to exchange)
Remember u can't create something without work. This is simple physics. There is financial commitment in proof of work which gives it value."

Lets come to SFR first. I never said that make SFR a pure POS coin, but add POS on top of it. Which can be useful as small transactions can be done by POS, which will be fast, so that to promote real life daily usage of SFR and total supply can be divided between POS and POW.

Who are you calling hoarders are actually investors. If investors see anything useful they will buy it and you can't stop them. But the 51% attack is not a problem with SFR because investors can never hold that much as it will be mined slowly. Also for the sake of argument POS became popular because as you said energy is very important and mine-able coins use lot of energy to produce. Even if you look at bitcoin there are only about 1000 individuals who hold 50% of market.

The important thing for any coin is to get accepted, as even POW coins are easy to make and there are so many of them. To get accepted you need volume and for volume you need to be popular and you can only make your coin popular by fulfilling market requirements. How many coins do you think really has a real life use and why do I need crypto currency for daily transactions? Bitcoin was made to decentralise finance market and ease the international payments. In a way there are not many % population that mine, so why does miners get all the reward? and they can also keep mining and hoard a large amount of coins.  Right now miners will keep mining and dumping to investors but why will I buy a coin if I see its value decreasing due to constant increase in supply of coin? If money is involved in anything than obviously who invest, will want returns from it.

Crypto currency can become truly decentralised if every person on this earth is able to mine but if everyone will be able to mine than the coin will loose value, so there will be no buyers.  So my friend if you want SFR to survive than "all the stakeholder" should get benefit from it, otherwise it will die as soon as it wakes up like other mineable coins with endless supply. Investors will invest when it see the value rising in future, miner will mine if they see investors buying it, other people will use it if they see coin popular and easily exchangeable. Everything is related. So POS is as important as POW and low inflation.

Thanks for your reply.
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