[ANN] Orbitcoin v1.6.3.0 ~ NeoScrypt ~ Green Stake ~ 10 Years Old

[coaex]

For a limited time, we opened ORB payments in our gold and bullion store - Coaex: https://www.coaex.com
This may be extended indefinitely, depending on community's interest in our products and services.

Regards,
Coaex Support Team

Thanks, there is a thread for the ORB merchant adoption:

ORB stores services and merchants, spend ORB

I liked the wallet, especially the transaction time seems fast, which suits our needs.
However, you may need a better website and services to promote your coin. I've been working a lot lately for our coin - MemoryCoin, designing a new website.
We also own a digital advertisement agency here in Turkey - a new startup, which have a lot of corporate customers, already and I'm working there as a project manager.
In conclusion, I have multiple jobs, have enormous workload but if you need any promotional help, drop me a message

[locohammerhead]

Hello all

I want to make sure I understand this POS system.  20 coins generates 1 coin after staking for 5 days or is that when the coins can start staking?  About how many coins would I need to receive 1 coin every hour?

Thanks

[Mad_Max]

Hi

It can start staking after 1 day (from date/time of incoming transaction including previous PoS block). Not possible generate PoS for inputs < 1 day old.
But you can not say exactly how much time it will take to generate PoS after it.
It like classic PoW solomining with GPU:
- it depends on the current difficulty (which in turn depends on the amount and activity of the "competitors" - other miners)
- your mining power (but with PoS your mining power not megahashes of mining hardware but amount of coins-days you accumulate in your wallet)
- time which you spend at mining (but with PoS it is not time of GPU/ASIC work, but time while you running wallet online with "old" coins staking)
- your luck

Next formula not correct but for simplification of understanding:

amount of PoS blocks you will get = (mining/staking power) x (mining/staking time) / PoS difficulty  

Mining(staking) power usually called "weight" and counted in coin-days for each input transaction individually: (amount of coin in input) x (age - 1)
So inputs with age < 1 day have zero weight (formula gives negative values but program account all < 1 day inputs as 0 weight) and not staking at all.
For example incoming 25 ORB transaction 1 week old have weight = 25 x (7-1) = 150 coin-days, increasing continuously with time until generate PoS finally.
After successful PoS generation coin age reset to zero (so weight = 0 too) and process starts from beginning.
Maximum possible weight reached after 16 days, so maximum weight = input size x 15

But still it is not possible calculate time when individual input generate PoS - because it is a stochastic process and heavily dependent on luck (as a solo Mining): sometimes very "lucky" inputs generates PoS blocks only few hours after reaching minimum age (currently 1 days for ORB, initial value before hard-fork was 5 days) with weight only 1-5 coin-days, sometimes very "unlucky" transaction staking few weeks(growing up to weight of hundreds or even several thousands coin-days) before get PoS .

But if you have many inputs staking at same time process became more predictable (like with solomining: if you try solomine hight diff coin with single GPU - you can find block in first day if lucky but can not find any in few years if unlucky, but if you mine with huge mining farm or combine power of individual miners in pool you generate predictable average amount of blocks per day or week).

For example - i personally actively mining ORB PoS  blocks with wallet containing about ~ 15000 coins (sliced to 20-50 coins blocks, so i have few hundreds of inputs staking in parallel) - with current difficulty it generate > 30 PoS blocks each day.
So to be able generate about 1 block per hour (as average - it will vary) you will need about 10k-12k coins + time about 10-15 days (to accumulate average weight. First blocks will be on 6th day, but initially at very low rate ramping up slowly in next days in proportons of total weight accumulated)

But it true at current difficulty only - if diff goes up you get less blocks per day (with same amount of coins and accumulated weight) and vice versa because total amount of blocks(generated by all miners combined) per day is fixed.

P.S.
ghostlander how about if you add/correct this my post above and link it as ORB PoS mining FAQ/how-to from first post?

[locohammerhead]

Thank you so much for the explanation!  That really helped my understanding of how POS works.  It sounds to me that to make any kind of money from POS, you need a really good amount invested into that specific coin. 1 BTC to me right now is a lot.

[raleit2014]

I have have numerous requests to rate ORB for its valuation and target price.

I will have an opinion and findings soon.

http://cryptoanalytics.trade/

[ghostlander]

Mad Max is correct. Every input up for staking is hashed every second and checked against target which depends on a number of factors including the PoS difficulty and input weight in coin days (amount * age). If hash < target, you have mined a PoS block.

There is one important difference between ORB featuring fixed PoS rewards and other altcoins featuring variable PoS rewards. For example, you have 1000 coins and want to stake them for profit continuously. In case of non-ORB altcoins, you can launch your wallet, say, once a month, synchronise, generate a single big stake quickly and shut down the wallet until the next month. You are not motivated to keep it online 24/7 and support the network. In case of ORB, doing the same means losing most of the potential profit. First of all, you want to split these 1000 ORB into smaller parts like 20 to 50 ORB each, so they can stake independently. Second, you want them to stake as soon as possible, and the best way is to keep your wallet online 24/7. You produce a number of PoS blocks in the process rather than a single one, also support the network by relaying blocks, transactions, messages, etc.

[almightyruler]

First of all, you want to split these 1000 ORB into smaller parts like 20 to 50 ORB each, so they can stake independently. Second, you want them to stake as soon as possible, and the best way is to keep your wallet online 24/7. You produce a number of PoS blocks in the process rather than a single one, also support the network by relaying blocks, transactions, messages, etc.

Can you clarify, does this mean that with a large balance ORB will automatically stake smaller amounts, or do we need to split up the balance manually by sending multiple smaller amounts to ourselves?

[ghostlander]

First of all, you want to split these 1000 ORB into smaller parts like 20 to 50 ORB each, so they can stake independently. Second, you want them to stake as soon as possible, and the best way is to keep your wallet online 24/7. You produce a number of PoS blocks in the process rather than a single one, also support the network by relaying blocks, transactions, messages, etc.

Can you clarify, does this mean that with a large balance ORB will automatically stake smaller amounts, or do we need to split up the balance manually by sending multiple smaller amounts to ourselves?

Every single input delivers 1 ORB while staking. No matter if it's 1000 ORB or 20 ORB. Those inputs smaller than 20 ORB cannot stake unless they are merged with up to 10 other smaller inputs of the same address to meet or exceed 20 ORB together.

[almightyruler]

Yes, so if someone buys 1000 ORB from an exchange, it's in their interests to send 20 ORB to themselves, 50 times? Rather than just leave it as a 1000 lump?

[Mad_Max]

Yes, so if someone buys 1000 ORB from an exchange, it's in their interests to send 20 ORB to themselves, 50 times? Rather than just leave it as a 1000 lump?

Yes, for maximum profit better split to 20-50 coins chunks.

Current wallet software could handle it automatically but it will take more time:
Each time PoS block is generated wallet check how old was input which generate this block.
And if age < maximum staking age (for Orbitcoin maximum age = 20 days while minimum age = 5 days) considers that this input was too large/above optimal size (for the current network PoS difficulty), and divides it by 2.
Ie 1000 coins sent in single transaction after the first finding of the PoS block (it will be on the 6th day - such large inputs generates PoS blocks very fast after reaching minimal staking age) will be split into two transactions of ~500 coins each. Or more precisely (1000 + 1 + tx fees if any) / 2 = 500.5 (+fees/2)

After this new 2 inputs(formed auto by wallet) found own PoS blocks (it near 10-12 days from original transaction) it will be split to 4 inputs (500.5+1)/2 = 250.75 coins each
And so on - until wallet split all incoming transaction into pieces of optimal size for current network difficulty (it is within range from 20 to 50 coins now, but can be higher if diff grows up enough)
So after some time all wallets used for active staking(PoS mining) ends in near same conditions and rate of PoS generations in long term depends only on total amount of coins in wallet, current PoS network difficulty and amount of time wallet running online staking - not matter if person just put coins by one large transaction or split to many small manually.

But at starting period (first few weeks) manually prepared wallet will generate more blocks(and coins to - because PoS reward in ORB is fixed, not % as it set in almost all other PoS coins).

[Spayse]

We've added ORB/BTC market.

https://www.allcoin.com/trade/ORB_BTC

[presstab]

Bought my first chunk of ORB today. Excited to see the 5 day stake eligibility.

[almightyruler]

I'm still trying to understand why my ORB client seems to stake so erratically. Right now...

- network stake difficulty is at about 0.008 (quite low)
- reservebalance is false/0
- stakegen is true
- I currently have at least one 20+ ORB unspent output which has 9610 confirmations, and until a few minutes ago had another 20+ ORB unspent output with 200,000+ confirms

... so why isn't the client trying to stake?

BTW, is there any way to tell the difference between a PoS and PoW generated block in the transaction list? (edit: just remembered, the crude way is to look at the block hash value - if it has at least a few leading zeros then it is probably PoW)

[jorneyflair]

hmmmm.watching

[HzE]

Would be cool to see PROPERLY WORKING WALLLET!
Ive downloaded block chain like two times and at first time wallet crashed and my computer had to check USB stick from errors and wallet went so bad that it didnt start.
Second time my wallet now says (Warning:Checkpoint too old. Wait for block chain to download or notify developers), but it does not download the block chain...

Also i found two sites for ORB(?).. And several old threads and not a sign which one is official.

So... I think we need that properly working wallet (no need to download whole blockchain, new checkpoints), clarification about which site is official, which thread is official and whos running the game. Now everything seems a mess.

[Mad_Max]

I'm still trying to understand why my ORB client seems to stake so erratically. Right now...

- network stake difficulty is at about 0.008 (quite low)
- reservebalance is false/0
- stakegen is true
- I currently have at least one 20+ ORB unspent output which has 9610 confirmations, and until a few minutes ago had another 20+ ORB unspent output with 200,000+ confirms

... so why isn't the client trying to stake?

BTW, is there any way to tell the difference between a PoS and PoW generated block in the transaction list? (edit: just remembered, the crude way is to look at the block hash value - if it has at least a few leading zeros then it is probably PoW)

For PoS 0.08 it is not very low difficulty.. (it is about x40 times more from basic/minimal difficulty, while many small PoS coins balance near minimal/basic diff)

Minimum number of comfirmation of input to start staking set by default to 10000. So this input will start staking very soon - actually already staking if you not turn off wallet after post  (this default value can be altered by -stakemindepth=.... parameter, but i thinks 10k is OK it to avoid staking for inputs with very low weight - which have low probability of finding PoS blocks but consume CPU resources for mining same as inputs with high weight. I am usually set it even higher - 11-12k for my main wallet with hundreds of inputs staking. But with only few inputs you may want set lover values like 7000-8000... )

What happend with old (200,000+ confirms) input? Probable it already successfully generate PoS bloks? And after block generation number of confirms, age (and so weight too) of input is reset to zero and all process starts from beginning. So nothing strange what it not stakes any longer - this input will resume staking after reach >10000+ confirms again (or >5 days of age if you set stakemindepth to low values)

It is a very simple way to distinguish between a PoS and PoW generated block - in new wallet versions (after 1.4.2 AFAIK) in clearly shows in user GUI (right in transaction list - type column):

Date                            Type                              Label   Address         Amount
2014-05-15T18:55:30   PoS Mined                  PoS-1   oKJo.....          10
2014-05-15T18:46:19   PoS Mined                  PoS-1   oKJo.....          10
2014-05-15T18:34:55   Received with               PoS-4   oGx.......      24
2014-05-15T18:34:06   Received with               PoS-4   oGx.......      24

[almightyruler]

- network stake difficulty is at about 0.008 (quite low)

For PoS 0.08 it is not very low difficulty.. (it is about x40 times more from basic/minimal difficulty, while many small PoS coins balance near minimal/basic diff)

You've missed an extra zero. 0.008 is low.

It is a very simple way to distinguish between a PoS and PoW generated block - in new wallet versions (after 1.4.2 AFAIK) in clearly shows in user GUI (right in transaction list - type column):

I'm using the headless client, so the transaction list I look at is a JSON reply.

Doing something like ./orbitcoind listtransactions "" 5000 | grep blockhash | grep -v "blockhash. : .0000" lets me see hashes which are most likely not PoS.

My client is still not staking. I'll try the -stakemindepth cmdline switch (no API equivalent by the looks of it, so I can't fiddle with it at runtime )

[Mad_Max]

I do not miss extra zero. Or more correct:
yes i miss 0 in my post when write it
but NO i not miss it when reading your post and understand it correctly as 0.008 (NOT 0.08)

And 0.008 not a really low diff for ORB PoS,
For example last night i saw diff down to 0.002-0.004 range (now back to ~0.0075, seems somebody turn off really big stake wallet and now restart it again).
And before and at first stage of Staking Bonanza (announced in 1st post of this topic) diff was was at 0.000224 (x30-40 times less compared to current level) for long period.

At 0.008 PoS diff if you have just only single 20 ORB input which reach >5 days point recently it will take about from 1 to 5 days(depend on luck) of 24/7 staking to generate 1 PoS blocks.

stakemindepth yes - AFAIK it have no API/RPC/GUI equivalent. set CMD line option, or options set via Orbitcoin.conf at start.
So need restart wallet to apply changes.

[ghostlander]

Would be cool to see PROPERLY WORKING WALLLET!
Ive downloaded block chain like two times and at first time wallet crashed and my computer had to check USB stick from errors and wallet went so bad that it didnt start.
Second time my wallet now says (Warning:Checkpoint too old. Wait for block chain to download or notify developers), but it does not download the block chain...

If your PC has crashed and the medium has become damaged, there is no wallet fault. Back up your data directory weekly to prevent such surprises. If you get stuck at an old checkpoint, make sure you run the latest version, connect to up-to-date nodes and have your firewall not blocking incoming port 15298 connections.

Also i found two sites for ORB(?).. And several old threads and not a sign which one is official.

orbitcoin.info is waiting for a re-design, orb.sx is just a single page stub with some download links which are up-to-date though. Once a new design is ready, both sites will carry the same content maybe mirrored for additional reliability. This thread is the official one here at Bitcointalk.

So... I think we need that properly working wallet (no need to download whole blockchain, new checkpoints), clarification about which site is official, which thread is official and whos running the game. Now everything seems a mess.

You need to download the block chain anyway. You can use bootstrap.dat, but it isn't much faster. Checkpoints are in place both regular and advanced synchronised. The community runs the game and that's good

[raleit2014]

Crypto Analytics has reiterated its BUY rating on ORB

http://cryptoanalytics.trade/orb/
@CryptoAnalytic