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Author Topic: Genesis-mining.com || World's leading hashpower provider!  (Read 381350 times)
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thevictimofuktyranny
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February 06, 2015, 01:42:14 AM
 #2481

I dont think networks are saving any money by turning machines off when btc price is low, while others continue to mine and make coin.  In the mean time while they are waiting for btc price to rise diff is increasing.

I expect diff to be 80-100 billion by next year.

Why do you think block halving will increase btc price?

 It will only decrease rewards for miners.




That is the official position of CEX.IO cloudmining, mining is suspended until BTC price makes it profitable Shocked

Zeus mining, whose cloudmining customers have lost their hashpower under the "10 day rule" almost certainly still has it's farms, but they are simply switched off.

They can switch it on when BTC price is high enough for them to make some dollars once electricity cost are subtracted.

I guess, many miners at home have done the same thing with their old ASICs Roll Eyes

You see, 100PTHs worth old BTC hashpower can be switched on and off according to the $ price of BTC  Tongue

Halving of quantity (block reward) available to be sold to new investors equates to bidding up of what remains available for sale Shocked  Grin Roll Eyes

Simple Supply and Demand macro economics Wink
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February 06, 2015, 07:35:29 AM
 #2482

There are cheaper cloud mining options compared to GM. More importantly, there are options where you can not only get cheaper hash but also you can SELL you hash at a specific time period which decreases your ROI significantly.

For example, I can reach 70% of ROI, then sell the rest of my hash and be in profit. All this depends on a lot of variables but I m just pointing it out so you can have an idea how important it is.

GM, if I were you, introducing some form of internal market for selling hash would be my top priority. All this under assumption you are not afraid everyone who currently owns your hash would immediately try to dump it and leave. In this case, you have more important problems.

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February 06, 2015, 07:43:56 AM
 #2483

Still getting BTC0.00022221 for my 40Ghs per day
not bad
better than other cloud with 0 profit Smiley


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February 06, 2015, 09:16:37 AM
 #2484

There are cheaper cloud mining options compared to GM. More importantly, there are options where you can not only get cheaper hash but also you can SELL you hash at a specific time period which decreases your ROI significantly.

For example, I can reach 70% of ROI, then sell the rest of my hash and be in profit. All this depends on a lot of variables but I m just pointing it out so you can have an idea how important it is.

GM, if I were you, introducing some form of internal market for selling hash would be my top priority. All this under assumption you are not afraid everyone who currently owns your hash would immediately try to dump it and leave. In this case, you have more important problems.

Another thing to consider though is that GM do have a track record of being there no matter what so far in an environment where others are closing. Even if there is a more competitive offering, so far my experience is that GM is less risky (as a firm to deal with rather than the product), as they have demonstrated that they will adjust and try and keep the client happy as challenging market conditions persist. Other have ran at the first sign of trouble.

That counts for something to us. 

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February 06, 2015, 07:43:34 PM
 #2485

Good point, BankToTheFuture.

=P
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February 06, 2015, 07:51:26 PM
 #2486

I dont think networks are saving any money by turning machines off when btc price is low, while others continue to mine and make coin.  In the mean time while they are waiting for btc price to rise diff is increasing.

I expect diff to be 80-100 billion by next year.

Why do you think block halving will increase btc price?

 It will only decrease rewards for miners.




That is the official position of CEX.IO cloudmining, mining is suspended until BTC price makes it profitable Shocked

Zeus mining, whose cloudmining customers have lost their hashpower under the "10 day rule" almost certainly still has it's farms, but they are simply switched off.

They can switch it on when BTC price is high enough for them to make some dollars once electricity cost are subtracted.

I guess, many miners at home have done the same thing with their old ASICs Roll Eyes

You see, 100PTHs worth old BTC hashpower can be switched on and off according to the $ price of BTC  Tongue

Halving of quantity (block reward) available to be sold to new investors equates to bidding up of what remains available for sale Shocked  Grin Roll Eyes

Simple Supply and Demand macro economics Wink

All that cloud mining switching on and off is a scam.

They make a profit by renting hash rate and also add some to make extra from electricity and maintenance, its all priced in.  Basically they wont pay customers if btc price stays low, what a load of crap because they claim it is unprofitable, while the chances of difficulty raising is 97% at every jump dating back the last 2 years.  If btc price stays the same and electricity rates stay the same but diff increases, they are basically stealing customers deposits and using as an excuse for not paying out.
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February 06, 2015, 11:52:47 PM
 #2487

I dont think networks are saving any money by turning machines off when btc price is low, while others continue to mine and make coin.  In the mean time while they are waiting for btc price to rise diff is increasing.

I expect diff to be 80-100 billion by next year.

Why do you think block halving will increase btc price?

 It will only decrease rewards for miners.




That is the official position of CEX.IO cloudmining, mining is suspended until BTC price makes it profitable Shocked

Zeus mining, whose cloudmining customers have lost their hashpower under the "10 day rule" almost certainly still has it's farms, but they are simply switched off.

They can switch it on when BTC price is high enough for them to make some dollars once electricity cost are subtracted.

I guess, many miners at home have done the same thing with their old ASICs Roll Eyes

You see, 100PTHs worth old BTC hashpower can be switched on and off according to the $ price of BTC  Tongue

Halving of quantity (block reward) available to be sold to new investors equates to bidding up of what remains available for sale Shocked  Grin Roll Eyes

Simple Supply and Demand macro economics Wink

All that cloud mining switching on and off is a scam.

They make a profit by renting hash rate and also add some to make extra from electricity and maintenance, its all priced in.  Basically they wont pay customers if btc price stays low, what a load of crap because they claim it is unprofitable, while the chances of difficulty raising is 97% at every jump dating back the last 2 years.  If btc price stays the same and electricity rates stay the same but diff increases, they are basically stealing customers deposits and using as an excuse for not paying out.

Hmm,

This is a business arrangement Shocked

Mining is risky, a lot of cash investments up front Shocked

I have $1,100 GPU mining equipment, which has been mining over the winter at loss Shocked

Profits from the good years should offsets lack of profits from consolidation years Tongue

Accusing businesses of scamming is wrong and unfair Tongue

There is a 10 day rule, once cloudmining is finished, the original manufacturer or cloudmining firm can extract any remaining bits and pieces of profitability from the equipment -- only pettiness would begrudge them that Roll Eyes

Why would difficulty increase this year, you are not forecasting, but simply using the last 3 years to state an opinion. This is unlikely to be true because it is subjective speculation over difficulty assuming the past is an accurate guide to the future Shocked  Cheesy

In a consolidation year for mining, difficulty will go up and down in relation to the percentage of days that BTC price causes older mining equipment to be switched on or off Wink

Unlike previous years, people are still likely to make a ROI on Cloudmining, even if the initial ROI period is spread over 11 months Tongue

At the end of this year network difficulty is unlikely to be above 47500000000, therefore cloudming bought today will still be profitable right up the block halving in mid 2016 Tongue Roll Eyes Grin
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February 07, 2015, 04:38:18 AM
 #2488

Well when Asics came out in Jan 2013 the diff was 3 million, then Jan 2014 was 1.2 billion, last month 40 billion.

You are dreaming if you think the diff will be anything under 47 billion by end of this year.  If btc price doesnt go up, alot of people are fup

If you have a better way to forecast than through past events you are welcome, but the curve seems to be going up.

They invented cloud mining because they cannot make any profit selling hardware that becomes obsolete within 90 days,
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February 07, 2015, 09:26:19 AM
 #2489

Well when Asics came out in Jan 2013 the diff was 3 million, then Jan 2014 was 1.2 billion, last month 40 billion.

You are dreaming if you think the diff will be anything under 47 billion by end of this year.  If btc price doesnt go up, alot of people are fup

If you have a better way to forecast than through past events you are welcome, but the curve seems to be going up.

They invented cloud mining because they cannot make any profit selling hardware that becomes obsolete within 90 days,


Do the maths dude Grin

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

This would require $161,739,130 this year up front, plus not a single old unit must be decommissioned, however at 44 billion difficulty most of the old 1.2 watt units had to shut off Grin

Therefore, if difficulty doubled, most 1 watt units would have to be shut down and therefore another $161 million would be needed to replace them as well; net $322 million up front costs Shocked

Current Bitcoin price $225 makes this level of new investment impossible, because the profits per Bitcoin are insufficient to fund such investments.

Annual production of BTC this year value at current prices (3600 times $225 times 365 days) $295,650,000.

Most Bitcoins are never available to buy, under 30% reach the open Fiat Currency exchanges, which will be under $88,695,000 to fund hardware, labor and electricity costs. Nowhere, near close enough to fund the doubling of network hashpower.

QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes  Grin

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February 07, 2015, 10:07:40 AM
 #2490



QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes  Grin



I agree. I don't think difficulty will rise a lot anymore..

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February 07, 2015, 01:52:23 PM
 #2491



QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes  Grin



I agree. I don't think difficulty will rise a lot anymore..

It is a clever piece of macro economics included in Bitcoins and other crypto currencies, to increase difficulty you have to increase capital expenditures up front. This is very cheap at the beginning of the process of establishing a crypto currency, but it becomes ever more expensive as doubling of difficulty occurs. Therefore, people can accurately forecast the future difficulty on the basis of price expectations. Roll Eyes
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February 07, 2015, 06:38:19 PM
 #2492

I just bought an extra 150ghs at Genesis Manufacturing using CRYPTO MINING BLOG (5% off).

I know it is a long 11 month ROI Tongue

But, everyone should be thinking of helping to support the remaining efficient manufacturers with token purchases in 2015 Smiley Wink
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February 08, 2015, 10:05:49 AM
 #2493

Well when Asics came out in Jan 2013 the diff was 3 million, then Jan 2014 was 1.2 billion, last month 40 billion.

You are dreaming if you think the diff will be anything under 47 billion by end of this year.  If btc price doesnt go up, alot of people are fup

If you have a better way to forecast than through past events you are welcome, but the curve seems to be going up.

They invented cloud mining because they cannot make any profit selling hardware that becomes obsolete within 90 days,


Do the maths dude Grin

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

This would require $161,739,130 this year up front, plus not a single old unit must be decommissioned, however at 44 billion difficulty most of the old 1.2 watt units had to shut off Grin

Therefore, if difficulty doubled, most 1 watt units would have to be shut down and therefore another $161 million would be needed to replace them as well; net $322 million up front costs Shocked

Current Bitcoin price $225 makes this level of new investment impossible, because the profits per Bitcoin are insufficient to fund such investments.

Annual production of BTC this year value at current prices (3600 times $225 times 365 days) $295,650,000.

Most Bitcoins are never available to buy, under 30% reach the open Fiat Currency exchanges, which will be under $88,695,000 to fund hardware, labor and electricity costs. Nowhere, near close enough to fund the doubling of network hashpower.

QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes  Grin



Very useful analysis. Thank you. It also seems that the hardware manufacturers just don't have the same incentive to innovate and invest in creating ever more powerful ASIC right now.

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February 08, 2015, 06:53:22 PM
 #2494

Well when Asics came out in Jan 2013 the diff was 3 million, then Jan 2014 was 1.2 billion, last month 40 billion.

You are dreaming if you think the diff will be anything under 47 billion by end of this year.  If btc price doesnt go up, alot of people are fup

If you have a better way to forecast than through past events you are welcome, but the curve seems to be going up.

They invented cloud mining because they cannot make any profit selling hardware that becomes obsolete within 90 days,


Do the maths dude Grin

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

This would require $161,739,130 this year up front, plus not a single old unit must be decommissioned, however at 44 billion difficulty most of the old 1.2 watt units had to shut off Grin

Therefore, if difficulty doubled, most 1 watt units would have to be shut down and therefore another $161 million would be needed to replace them as well; net $322 million up front costs Shocked

Current Bitcoin price $225 makes this level of new investment impossible, because the profits per Bitcoin are insufficient to fund such investments.

Annual production of BTC this year value at current prices (3600 times $225 times 365 days) $295,650,000.

Most Bitcoins are never available to buy, under 30% reach the open Fiat Currency exchanges, which will be under $88,695,000 to fund hardware, labor and electricity costs. Nowhere, near close enough to fund the doubling of network hashpower.

QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes  Grin



Pardon my stupid...but are you telling me that buying more hash now is a good thing or a bad thing? I want to believe that its a good time as if the difficulty isn't going higher than current equipments hash power that means theres a slight chance to make ROI.

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February 08, 2015, 07:16:06 PM
 #2495

Well when Asics came out in Jan 2013 the diff was 3 million, then Jan 2014 was 1.2 billion, last month 40 billion.

You are dreaming if you think the diff will be anything under 47 billion by end of this year.  If btc price doesnt go up, alot of people are fup

If you have a better way to forecast than through past events you are welcome, but the curve seems to be going up.

They invented cloud mining because they cannot make any profit selling hardware that becomes obsolete within 90 days,


Do the maths dude Grin

Doubling the current difficult would require the additional usage of 26,9565 Bitman S5 ($413 plus PSU plus extras $600) units or their equivalent alternatives.

This would require $161,739,130 this year up front, plus not a single old unit must be decommissioned, however at 44 billion difficulty most of the old 1.2 watt units had to shut off Grin

Therefore, if difficulty doubled, most 1 watt units would have to be shut down and therefore another $161 million would be needed to replace them as well; net $322 million up front costs Shocked

Current Bitcoin price $225 makes this level of new investment impossible, because the profits per Bitcoin are insufficient to fund such investments.

Annual production of BTC this year value at current prices (3600 times $225 times 365 days) $295,650,000.

Most Bitcoins are never available to buy, under 30% reach the open Fiat Currency exchanges, which will be under $88,695,000 to fund hardware, labor and electricity costs. Nowhere, near close enough to fund the doubling of network hashpower.

QED. Difficulty will not double this year, but stay under 50 billion difficulty range  Shocked Roll Eyes  Grin



Pardon my stupid...but are you telling me that buying more hash now is a good thing or a bad thing? I want to believe that its a good time as if the difficulty isn't going higher than current equipments hash power that means theres a slight chance to make ROI.

Yes, it should work out to be a good thing
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February 09, 2015, 01:43:18 PM
 #2496

Well, it depends on personal insight. For those looking for unbelievable good ROI in no time (I mean those still living in 2013) I wouldn't say it's a good investment. But there's ponzi like companies out there for those willing to take the risk for quick profit.

Long term I'd say it's a good thing. Bitcoin is far from being dead, there's more possibilities every day, and the difficulty growth is slowing. Hardware manufacturers should be careful about what they do as history has proven that mindlessly adding massive amounts of power can be disastrous for both difficulty and coin value and leads to dropping sales. Which means the arms race will probably move towards efficiency. Building 250W 0.8THs miners instead of 1200W 2.5THs versions. I'm sure they will sell more of those efficient machines then of the biggies, so the investment for the manufacturer is a lot less risky. There is a market for big ass miners, but the number of customers capable of buying, running and maintaining those is a lot smaller. If only one or two of those big customers don't buy a load then the impact on sales is quite big already.

So, I'm with Marco Streng when he said you better be mining already for when Bitcoin goes up, because the demand for hashrate at such times will spike. If you have to buy in at that point it will be costly. So, long term thinking, I keep expanding my hashrate slowly. Yes, the value of the mined coins may be less, despite adding hashrate, but hey, that's short term thinking again.
Let's see where this leads to 6 months from now, or 12 months, or 24. Might end up at the bottom, but that's where I came from originally, so can't get worse. Lots to gain, nothing to lose Wink

Oh, to those mining UNO (yes, me included), buckle up Cheesy

<||=||>  Rule #1a: Never invest more then you can afford to lose. <||=||>  Rule #1b: Never invest all you can afford to lose. <||=||> 
............. Whenever someone idly claims a scam, a Bitcoin somewhere dies .............
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February 09, 2015, 02:03:21 PM
 #2497

It´s easy to say that everything will be fine later when bitcoin heads for the moon but the reality here on the ground is that BTC has been and still is constantly on the verge of a collapse. There is chronic microscopic volume and no buyer interest. Of course those with rosy price expectations never explain what will cause those negative factors to disappear nor when that´s supposed to happen.

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February 09, 2015, 02:45:26 PM
 #2498

Well, it depends on personal insight. For those looking for unbelievable good ROI in no time (I mean those still living in 2013) I wouldn't say it's a good investment. But there's ponzi like companies out there for those willing to take the risk for quick profit.

Long term I'd say it's a good thing. Bitcoin is far from being dead, there's more possibilities every day, and the difficulty growth is slowing. Hardware manufacturers should be careful about what they do as history has proven that mindlessly adding massive amounts of power can be disastrous for both difficulty and coin value and leads to dropping sales. Which means the arms race will probably move towards efficiency. Building 250W 0.8THs miners instead of 1200W 2.5THs versions. I'm sure they will sell more of those efficient machines then of the biggies, so the investment for the manufacturer is a lot less risky. There is a market for big ass miners, but the number of customers capable of buying, running and maintaining those is a lot smaller. If only one or two of those big customers don't buy a load then the impact on sales is quite big already.

So, I'm with Marco Streng when he said you better be mining already for when Bitcoin goes up, because the demand for hashrate at such times will spike. If you have to buy in at that point it will be costly. So, long term thinking, I keep expanding my hashrate slowly. Yes, the value of the mined coins may be less, despite adding hashrate, but hey, that's short term thinking again.
Let's see where this leads to 6 months from now, or 12 months, or 24. Might end up at the bottom, but that's where I came from originally, so can't get worse. Lots to gain, nothing to lose Wink

Oh, to those mining UNO (yes, me included), buckle up Cheesy

Very good insights Roll Eyes

Lower profitability from mining was inevitable, because whenever excessive profits occur, they seldom exist forever Tongue

In this case, excessive profit lastest for 14 months, before those 14 months there was 46 months of low profits mining Bitcoins.

Bitcoin supports 99% of SHA256 miners, it is an Economic Coin, when SHA256 miners choose to save/reserve their mined Bitcoin the price will skyrocket  Tongue

Litecoin supports 95% of Scrypt miners, it is an Economic Coin, when Scrypt miners choose to save/reserve their mined Litecoins the price will skyrocket  Tongue

Darkcoins support 60% of GPU miners, it is an Economic Coin, when GPU miners choose to save/reserve their mined Darkcoins the price will skyrocket  Tongue

Therefore, the reality of the situation that we are all trying to accurately explain is the relationships between Fiat Currency and our new sector of crypto currencies when a a major crypto currency transitions from being an hobbyist item (toy) into something that is useful to the masses. An Economic Coin is supported by more then 50% of miners on that algorithm indexed to mining equipment, essentially it is an economic democracy were miners have concluded the safest location for their investments and profits are in a particular currency utilizing a particular type of hardware or and algorithm. THIS IS WHAT NON-MINER INVESTORS WANT TO KNOW AND WHETHER THIS CRYPTO CURRENCY IS UNDERVALUED OR OVERVALUED.

More then one Economic Coin is needed, to prevent overvaluations causing losses to newbie investors, ultimately crypto currencies will need 6-12 POW crypto currencies to eliminate losses for Newbie investors Shocked

Developing answers to these types of questions is essentially to the progression of crypto currency sector:

How should the macro economic equations be written?

What is an acceptable long term profit margin from mining?

How should the network difficulty be used to affect the price of mined coins?

For Bitcoin and Litecoin and Darkcoin; they are at beginning of their economic existence Wink

 Lips sealed


  
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February 09, 2015, 05:47:53 PM
 #2499

Isnt it much easier and cheaper  to just buy btc outright if people want to speculate  on the price rising.  Although  not as fun as mining or pretending  to be a miner by Buying hashrate On a cloud.
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February 09, 2015, 05:56:44 PM
 #2500

Isnt it much easier and cheaper  to just buy btc outright if people want to speculate  on the price rising.  Although  not as fun as mining or pretending  to be a miner by Buying hashrate On a cloud.

Yeah, but last year miners had a largish profits and 3-5 month ROI.

Clearly, that will be habit forming Roll Eyes

But, I'm coming round to the view: buy the crypto currency (checking it is not overvalued), stick in offline wallet, forget about for 1 year (do more interesting things with my time) and check it's apreciation in 1 years time Cheesy
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