rpietila Altcoin Observer

[rpietila]

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

It is more helpful to compare the marketcaps with the total # of coins, which puts for example XMR in the $50M range, far above BCN.

[damashup]

It's all about Monero when it comes to anonymous coins.

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

Which market?

The currency market? Cryptocurrencies are a blip in the ocean compared to fiat currencies, so in that sense, no-one 'trusts' any cryptos.

The cryptocurrency market? I wouldn't say the crypto-market is brimming with trust for any cryptocurrency other than Bitcoin:
e.g.
1. Bitcoin - 78% share,
2. Litecoin - 5.5%
4. Darkcoin - 1.59% share
17. Monero - 0.57% share

It's Bitcoin then everyone else scrambling over loose change right now.

Monero (and other Cryptonote coins) at least have the advantage of being different, more flexible (as I understand it) technology, of being in very early Beta stage and offering value (anonymous transactions) that Bitcoin cannot.

In the race to replace fiat (which surely has to be the ultimate prize), Monero is a more realistic challenger to Bitcoin than any other right now.

Any cryptocurrency that does not offer a unique blueprint on how to replace fiat, is no more than a speculate now, dump later scam coin in my eyes.

 

[Este Nuno]

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

It is more helpful to compare the marketcaps with the total # of coins, which puts for example XMR in the $50M range, far above BCN.

Total number of coins to ever be minted? Why is that more helpful than the standard market cap calculation?

[rpietila]

Total number of coins to ever be minted? Why is that more helpful than the standard market cap calculation?

It tells us the real picture. I don't know about you but I always compare coins using that metric alone.

[dreamspark]

Total number of coins to ever be minted? Why is that more helpful than the standard market cap calculation?

It tells us the real picture. I don't know about you but I always compare coins using that metric alone.

People need to do this more. I dont understand how people can compare on the available supply, particularly with some coins being near the beginning of a slower emission curve.

Ill use XMR as an example as I was speaking to someone in that thread about it earlier but they were telling me there were aiming for 1% of the supply. When I asked how they were going to acquire 180k coins and how they had that much BTC I was told I had a zero too many

How can people aim for 1% of the supply and use the current supply for this calculation, particularly with a coin such as XMR that is only 10% minted.

[damashup]

Total number of coins to ever be minted? Why is that more helpful than the standard market cap calculation?

It tells us the real picture. I don't know about you but I always compare coins using that metric alone.

Would I be right in thinking that the marketcap (used in the context of cryptocurrencies) is a bit of a fiction? For the majority of coins, there simply isn't the liquidity at the current price?

(I'm a bit of a novice in these matters... so apologies if the answer to this is obvious).

[Este Nuno]

Total number of coins to ever be minted? Why is that more helpful than the standard market cap calculation?

It tells us the real picture. I don't know about you but I always compare coins using that metric alone.

But generally shouldn't the market be taking the future supply curve into account when pricing? Or do you think that these markets are so inefficient that they don't reflect the reality?(Likely) And I can assume that is one of the major reasons you consider XMR a sound investment. The market doesn't reflect the coins true value? What would a fair valuation look like right now in your opinion?

[rpietila]

Would I be right in thinking that the marketcap (used in the context of cryptocurrencies) is a bit of a fiction? For the majority of coins, there simply isn't the liquidity at the current price?

That's both ways. Try to buy 1 million BTC and you see what happens

Total number of coins to ever be minted? Why is that more helpful than the standard market cap calculation?

It tells us the real picture. I don't know about you but I always compare coins using that metric alone.

But generally shouldn't the market be taking the future supply curve into account when pricing? Or do you think that these markets are so inefficient that they don't reflect the reality?(Likely) And I can assume that is one of the major reasons you consider XMR a sound investment. The market doesn't reflect the coins true value? What would a fair valuation look like right now in your opinion?

Yes of course. But wasn't the topic that "why is XMR undervalued"? I think it is not, the market is taking into account the 10-doubling of coins and assigning it the valuation of 50M, which makes XMR on par with NXT and much ahead of every other PoS coin.

I think XMR is fairly valued at 0.005-0.010.

[darkota]

OK Rpietila, right now XMR lacks a official GUI(there are GUI's, but not "official") and a resolve to the Blockchain bloat/scale.

Once XMR has an official GUI, and a resolve to the Blockchain bloat/scale, what is your valuation on what XMR's price should be then?

[TsuyokuNaritai]

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

It is more helpful to compare the marketcaps with the total # of coins, which puts for example XMR in the $50M range, far above BCN.

Is there a list showing inflation, as in new coins per day times BTC value per coin?

[digicoin]

Is DRK a new QUARK, a bump and dump coin that is now dead? I think that nobody talks about DRK after 6-12 months. Same thing happens to QUARK

[rpietila]

OK Rpietila, right now XMR lacks a official GUI(there are GUI's, but not "official") and a resolve to the Blockchain bloat/scale.

Once XMR has an official GUI, and a resolve to the Blockchain bloat/scale, what is your valuation on what XMR's price should be then?

The realistic upper limit on BTC's price is 25% of world's wealth (ie ~5M$/BTC).
The realistic upper limit for XMR is 25% of BTC (ie ~0.25BTC/XMR).

I think the development of GUI is priced in, so it will be a negative event if we fail to deliver it.

[AlexGR]

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

It is more helpful to compare the marketcaps with the total # of coins, which puts for example XMR in the $50M range, far above BCN.

It's a fair approach however one part of my mind doesn't like the underlying assumption that buyers are somehow guaranteed to buy the extra coin supply at something like current prices. There are too many PoW altcoins acting as a living example that marketcap is steady or declining as new pow coins are issued. Of course coin prospects are intertwined with buying interest, so a crap coin will naturally face a much larger problem finding buyers for the long-term sustainment of its inflation. Inflation is generally a huge issue with altcoins.

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

Because of the propaganda.

Those coins you mention have an army of people convincing noobs to what they want. All X11 coins are essentially a  scam. Instamine aside, I think that most of the GPU miners of those coins didn't yet figured out that they are fighting against FPGAs.

That^

Big investors usually look for easy-quick-scam coins to pump and dump in an instant. All those coins, XC, Vericoin, Cloakcoin, Veilcoin, Supercoin, etc etc lol, are Pumps and Dumps only.

DRK has someone that that I call the "primary buyer". I estimate it's someone with vast BTC resources - probably 100k-500k BTCs or so. I don't know if these BTCs are legit or hacked, but he can spend them like no tomorrow. This guy has bought millions in DRKs. This same buyer (as I can see from his buying patterns) has also gone to diversify himself in XC, Vericoin and other "pumps & dumps"... however the money he used for Moneros is tiny compared to all other coins. I believe he was more actively engaged in the first run up to 0.007-8.

If pumping & dumping was his sole purpose in engaging with all these coins, it only makes sense that he would be better served pumping a coin which he can then "sell" to others based on its superior properties. Otherwise how can he dump without crashing the market and everyone running away from the "crapcoin"? He would need adequate hype that the coin is "solid" rather than crappy. So, Monero, in this regard, given what everyone is saying, should be better pump material. One can buy more and hype it as superior, actually convincing buyers that it's a good coin to have. Once that happens, he can dump in waves - if his intention was to profit from the p&d, instead of HODLing long term.

But this didn't happen. And it has sparked my curiosity as to why. What does the multi-million guy (who buys all anon coins except the bytecoin ones) know? Is it inflation that is the problem? Is it that he has somehow independently assessed the bytecoin coins as severely problematic in other areas beyond anonymity? What is it that makes him avoid them like the plague, creating market paradoxes where Boolberry is surpassed by bitcoin-based clones that only offer a whitepaper for anonymity and not even the features for it?

[darkota]

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

It is more helpful to compare the marketcaps with the total # of coins, which puts for example XMR in the $50M range, far above BCN.

It's a fair approach however one part of my mind doesn't like the underlying assumption that buyers are somehow guaranteed to buy the extra coin supply at something like current prices. There are too many PoW altcoins acting as a living example that marketcap is steady or declining as new pow coins are issued. Of course coin prospects are intertwined with buying interest, so a crap coin will naturally face a much larger problem finding buyers for the long-term sustainment of its inflation. Inflation is generally a huge issue with altcoins.

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

Because of the propaganda.

Those coins you mention have an army of people convincing noobs to what they want. All X11 coins are essentially a  scam. Instamine aside, I think that most of the GPU miners of those coins didn't yet figured out that they are fighting against FPGAs.

That^

Big investors usually look for easy-quick-scam coins to pump and dump in an instant. All those coins, XC, Vericoin, Cloakcoin, Veilcoin, Supercoin, etc etc lol, are Pumps and Dumps only.

DRK has someone that that I call the "primary buyer". I estimate it's someone with vast BTC resources - probably 100k-500k BTCs or so. I don't know if these BTCs are legit or hacked, but he can spend them like no tomorrow. This guy has bought millions in DRKs. This same buyer (as I can see from his buying patterns) has also gone to diversify himself in XC, Vericoin and other "pumps & dumps"... however the money he used for Moneros is tiny compared to all other coins. I believe he was more actively engaged in the first run up to 0.007-8.

If pumping & dumping was his sole purpose in engaging with all these coins, it only makes sense that he would be better served pumping a coin which he can then "sell" to others based on its superior properties. Otherwise how can he dump without crashing the market and everyone running away from the "crapcoin"? He would need adequate hype that the coin is "solid" rather than crappy. So, Monero, in this regard, given what everyone is saying, should be better pump material. One can buy more and hype it as superior, actually convincing buyers that it's a good coin to have. Once that happens, he can dump in waves - if his intention was to profit from the p&d, instead of HODLing long term.

But this didn't happen. And it has sparked my curiosity as to why. What does the multi-million guy (who buys all anon coins except the bytecoin ones) know? Is it inflation that is the problem? Is it that he has somehow independently assessed the bytecoin coins as severely problematic in other areas beyond anonymity? What is it that makes him avoid them like the plague, creating market paradoxes where Boolberry is surpassed by bitcoin-based clones that only offer a whitepaper for anonymity and not even the features for it?

I have the answer to your question.

Simply, Monero and other Cryptonote coins lack like an Official GUI(there are unofficial ones you can use, but the dev team themselves havent gave an "official" one), without an Official GUI so that everyone, even newbies, can use easily, that big investor with millions of $ worth of BTC, won't try and pump it yet. Simply because he knows that most people involved with bitcoin and such, are not "techies", aka they are accustomed to having a GUI and etc laid out for them, but with Cryptonote atm, that is not the case.

And the reason coins like BBR hasnt gone up or been pumped/will ever be pumped by whales and those rich bitcoin investors, is because of it's severe instamine, probably over 40% of Boolberries are in the hand of that one guy. That guy with the private gpu miner is still making over 1,000 boolberry per day, or 2 BTC of BBR per day. He used to make 14k BBR per day....plus they have botnets.

When an "official" GUI comes out, you can expect major pumps etc from those rich bitcoin investors, simply because they know that once they get the ball moving, all the newbies and daytraders and other whales would join them, especially once Monero is easier to use.

It just matters on the GUI at this point.

[AlexGR]

Seriously? If I were a multi-millionaire BTC investor I'd hire a programmer to make the gui myself. This is a non issue. Front-ending is the easy part. The back-end is the hard part. As for BBR I doubt it's the "instamine" as it wasn't been pumped prior to the revelation of the GPU miner either. So, again the question remains.

[Its About Sharing]

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

It is more helpful to compare the marketcaps with the total # of coins, which puts for example XMR in the $50M range, far above BCN.

It's a fair approach however one part of my mind doesn't like the underlying assumption that buyers are somehow guaranteed to buy the extra coin supply at something like current prices. There are too many PoW altcoins acting as a living example that marketcap is steady or declining as new pow coins are issued. Of course coin prospects are intertwined with buying interest, so a crap coin will naturally face a much larger problem finding buyers for the long-term sustainment of its inflation. Inflation is generally a huge issue with altcoins.

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

Because of the propaganda.

Those coins you mention have an army of people convincing noobs to what they want. All X11 coins are essentially a  scam. Instamine aside, I think that most of the GPU miners of those coins didn't yet figured out that they are fighting against FPGAs.

That^

Big investors usually look for easy-quick-scam coins to pump and dump in an instant. All those coins, XC, Vericoin, Cloakcoin, Veilcoin, Supercoin, etc etc lol, are Pumps and Dumps only.

DRK has someone that that I call the "primary buyer". I estimate it's someone with vast BTC resources - probably 100k-500k BTCs or so. I don't know if these BTCs are legit or hacked, but he can spend them like no tomorrow. This guy has bought millions in DRKs. This same buyer (as I can see from his buying patterns) has also gone to diversify himself in XC, Vericoin and other "pumps & dumps"... however the money he used for Moneros is tiny compared to all other coins. I believe he was more actively engaged in the first run up to 0.007-8.

If pumping & dumping was his sole purpose in engaging with all these coins, it only makes sense that he would be better served pumping a coin which he can then "sell" to others based on its superior properties. Otherwise how can he dump without crashing the market and everyone running away from the "crapcoin"? He would need adequate hype that the coin is "solid" rather than crappy. So, Monero, in this regard, given what everyone is saying, should be better pump material. One can buy more and hype it as superior, actually convincing buyers that it's a good coin to have. Once that happens, he can dump in waves - if his intention was to profit from the p&d, instead of HODLing long term.

But this didn't happen. And it has sparked my curiosity as to why. What does the multi-million guy (who buys all anon coins except the bytecoin ones) know? Is it inflation that is the problem? Is it that he has somehow independently assessed the bytecoin coins as severely problematic in other areas beyond anonymity? What is it that makes him avoid them like the plague, creating market paradoxes where Boolberry is surpassed by bitcoin-based clones that only offer a whitepaper for anonymity and not even the features for it?

I have the answer to your question.

Simply, Monero and other Cryptonote coins lack like an Official GUI(there are unofficial ones you can use, but the dev team themselves havent gave an "official" one), without an Official GUI so that everyone, even newbies, can use easily, that big investor with millions of $ worth of BTC, won't try and pump it yet. Simply because he knows that most people involved with bitcoin and such, are not "techies", aka they are accustomed to having a GUI and etc laid out for them, but with Cryptonote atm, that is not the case.

And the reason coins like BBR hasnt gone up or been pumped/will ever be pumped by whales and those rich bitcoin investors, is because of it's severe instamine, probably over 40% of Boolberries are in the hand of that one guy. That guy with the private gpu miner is still making over 1,000 boolberry per day, or 2 BTC of BBR per day. He used to make 14k BBR per day....plus they have botnets.

When an "official" GUI comes out, you can expect major pumps etc from those rich bitcoin investors, simply because they know that once they get the ball moving, all the newbies and daytraders and other whales would join them, especially once Monero is easier to use.

It just matters on the GUI at this point.

It can also be intelligence agencies getting into everything. We saw something similar imo regarding the internet bubble.
If you have a large stake in most coins and the liquidity is low, it is possible to quell price movements up, at least temporarily.
Who knows, but since Intelligence agencies are basically all over and into everything, I would think it absolutely risky to their (States) well being to not heavily be into a VERY disruptive technology.
I sort of wonder as they peruse the boards, how much they themselves are being affected by the redefining of money, and more...

Its about sharing

[surfer43]

BBR was never instamined. The hashrate almost instantly rose to a high level with plenty of miners after launch. Difficulty at block 50 was in the same area as block 5000. If anything XMR was instamined, 150k XMR was mined in the first week with network hashrate less than 5 KH/s.

cbuchner1 has stated he doesn't have more than 10,000 BBR at any one time, he is selling them off. That is why the price has been kept down. Also it's possible there are other GPU miners.

A lot of BTC has gone in to sustain the 0.001 price of BBR.

[darkota]

BBR was never instamined. The hashrate almost instantly rose to a high level with plenty of miners after launch. Difficulty at block 50 was in the same area as block 5000. If anything XMR was instamined, 150k XMR was mined in the first week with network hashrate less than 5 KH/s.

cbuchner1 has stated he doesn't have more than 10,000 BBR at any one time, he is selling them off. That is why the price has been kept down. Also it's possible there are other GPU miners.

A lot of BTC has gone in to sustain the 0.001 price of BBR.

He was making 14k BBR per day...I dont think you honestly believe that he is seilling his BBR.....The spread on BBR is pretty bad..

[darkota]

Seriously? If I were a multi-millionaire BTC investor I'd hire a programmer to make the gui myself. This is a non issue. Front-ending is the easy part. The back-end is the hard part. As for BBR I doubt it's the "instamine" as it wasn't been pumped prior to the revelation of the GPU miner either. So, again the question remains.

Ok..Seriously? Too many assumptions you're making. The "multi-millionaire BTC investor" could be using Stolen Bitcoin, ever heard of the Silk Road Hackings/Mt Gox Incidents and the dozens of others? Yea, it'd a high possibility he's using stolen BTC and pumping up coins with GUI wallets already available, because he knows all the other daytraders/whales/newbies will buy into those coins since they have GUI wallet and are easily used with no skills required, making him huge potential profits. Assuming that "multi-millionaire BTC investor" holds the highest amount of Darkcoin, I wouldnt be suprised that he will start selling off portions at a time once DRK's price stabilizes after RC4. He's just in it for the money.

Again, it comes down to the Ease of Use, and a GUI wallet would change mro/cryptonotes from being for "Techies" mostly to being able to be used by all people involved with cryptocurrencies(majority of them arent tech wizards)

[dunchy]

It's all about Monero when it comes to anonymous coins.

Explain this to me: Why is it that the market doesn't trust Monero if it has so solid fundamentals? Why is it that 100% instamined PoW/PoS hybrids appear out of nowhere, and just by being based on the Bitcoin codebase are able to out-perform the marketcap of Monero in a few days or weeks? This shouldn't even be possible.

4    Darkcoin   $ 34,537,954   $ 7.78   4,439,477 DRK
11    Bytecoin (BCN)   $ 8,974,931   $ 0.000057   156,920,284,106 BCN      
13    VeriCoin   $ 7,597,613   $ 0.283679   26,782,417 VRC
15    XC   $ 6,451,500   $ 1.17   5,515,507 XC
17    Monero   $ 5,080,622   $ 2.72   1,867,647 XMR

LMAO, oh man you are so delusional if you think the market trust DRK over XMR just because its pumped rn.

O yes he does

These figures are just a mirage, with a $ prefix. Nothing more. I wonder did really more than 10 real "$"  ever changed hands there? Faked mining making fake walls performing fake trades that never change hands...