rpietila Altcoin Observer

[Quanttek]

In 5 or more years you will have 1TB ssd on... mobile phones running nodes...

See you then. Meanwhile, Darkcoin will become the go to privacy-centric in several months. There are already solid ideas on how to make unmasking transactions through node collusion exceedingly difficult. Impractical even for an entity that controls half the nodes. So once that is done, what exactly does CN have to offer?

yeah i was looking into Darkcoin many months ago when in a few weeks everything would be open source, when soon 10DRK limit wouldnt exist, when ring signatures would be implemented soon etc. See you also in a few months.

Getting things done takes time. I know you're used to coins that just copy and paste, make some insignificant changes , and then claim legitimacy. Masternodes are paid directly from the block reward. Just a little bit more difficult than pool optimization, no? Also, last I checked, your lead dev isn't even full time! That sure inspires trust in the project.

Sorry, but where the f*ck do you have this sh*t from with "only pool otpimizations" from?
We have multiple devs working fulltime on it: fluffypony, tewinget, mikezackles, tacotime (50%) and th rest of the team is putting every second of their free time into the project. That's a bit more than just one guy.

[othe]

Adaptive block sizing means right now it's hard to get money around in XMR chain because it is saturated. However, over the next hour the blockchain will expand its blocksize and this will be less of an issue. Please wait for your tx to be included in the blockchain.

Just wait for your transaction to be included guys. LOL That'll go over well with the real world.

Nice attempt to troll - in fact dakrcoin and bitcoin have fixed limits and are less flexible in that regard. You will notice that soon when everyone is forced to use coinjoin where tons of inputs will meet tons of output which wont fit into every block.
Just on as sidenote, forced coinjoin for every tx will prolly produce way more "bloat" then cryptonote.

"There is also concern this might also enable the adversary to steal collateral payments"
Badly behaving nodes are banned by the network.

Fail by design, banning after something malicous has already been happened.

"master nodes aren’t untraceable"
Doesn't monero have nodes? Yes? Are they untraceable?

Monero doesnt need nodes for mixing, If you use that argument than bitcoin is also centralized which is of course non-sense because its a p2p network.

"other spenders need to send spends of the same amount simultaneously"
It's all automatic, users don't have to worry about that. User clicks send, and Darksend will wait until there are sufficient sends in the pool. And after the Darksend becomes mandatory (or default option) this won't be a problem as there will be a lot of people actually using the coin and creating transactions, as the coin can actually handle > 5 transactions per block.

Again fail by design, you dont need to wait for someone in Monero to send anonymous transactions.
And once again, Monero can handle as much transactions than drk/btc...

"Masternode centralization problem"
Doesn't monero have nodes? Yes? => "centralization problem"

Nonsene again, of course a p2p network uses nodes thats why its DECENTRALIZED.

But if you use "special" nodes for special tasks with closed source software all hosted at amazon, ovh and digital ocean...its hardly decentralized, i am just waiting for the first reports of abused and confiscated mixing nodes and people losing their money...

[Brilliantrocket]

In 5 or more years you will have 1TB ssd on... mobile phones running nodes...

See you then. Meanwhile, Darkcoin will become the go to privacy-centric in several months. There are already solid ideas on how to make unmasking transactions through node collusion exceedingly difficult. Impractical even for an entity that controls half the nodes. So once that is done, what exactly does CN have to offer?

How would it become exceedingly difficult? AFAIK right now it can be done by any masternode.

Even if it's impossible, the Darksend privacy is still fundamentally flawed, see http://www.scribd.com/doc/227369807/Bitcoin-Coinjoin-Not-Anonymous-v01 and http://www.coinjoinsudoku.com/advisory/.

Monero has impractical working anonymity now.

Fixed that for you. Until I don't read about "wait for your transaction to be included guys, everything is fine!". Until it doesn't take an exorbitant amount of space to run a node. Darksend has had some big changes recently. There is never a point where a single masternode knows both the sender and recipient. By using multiple nodes, the practicality of node collusion can be eliminated.

[surfer43]

Sorry, but where the f*ck do you have this sh*t from with "only pool otpimizations" from?
We have multiple devs working fulltime on it: fluffypony, tewinget, mikezackles, tacotime (50%) and th rest of the team is putting every second of their free time into the project. That's a bit more than just one guy.

Not to mention the CryptoNote developers, Bytecoin developers, and Boolberry developers.

In 5 or more years you will have 1TB ssd on... mobile phones running nodes...

See you then. Meanwhile, Darkcoin will become the go to privacy-centric in several months. There are already solid ideas on how to make unmasking transactions through node collusion exceedingly difficult. Impractical even for an entity that controls half the nodes. So once that is done, what exactly does CN have to offer?

How would it become exceedingly difficult? AFAIK right now it can be done by any masternode.

Even if it's impossible, the Darksend privacy is still fundamentally flawed, see http://www.scribd.com/doc/227369807/Bitcoin-Coinjoin-Not-Anonymous-v01 and http://www.coinjoinsudoku.com/advisory/.

Monero has impractical working anonymity now.

Fixed that for you. Until I don't read about "wait for your transaction to be included guys, everything is fine!". Until it doesn't take an exorbitant amount of space to run a node. Darksend has had some big changes recently. There is never a point where a single masternode knows both the sender and recipient. By using multiple nodes, the practicality of node collusion can be eliminated.

The "wait for your transaction to be included guys, everything is fine!" issue is more of an issue with Darkcoin as pointed out above. With Monero it is a small temporary delay only caused with a sudden increase in transactions. 1 GB is not an "exorbitant amount of space". How is it not practical just because it causes relatively more blockchain bloat than Bitcoin forks? I'm sure Darksend causes just as much or more bloat than ring signatures.

Monero supporters are almost as bad as the religious cuckoos that deny evolution.

English as a second language or cognitive deficiency? Hmm, hard to tell. Either way, the idea behind a discussion board is for posts to be coherent.

Any non-morons want to criticize Darkcoin? I'm waiting.

You're clearly a troll judging by your personal attacks. Hint: this is not how you get people to respect your arguments.

[digicoin]

In regards to Anonymint, when he speaks I would pay attention. He is at genius / near genius levels when it comes to cryptography and math. If he says it cannot scale, it cannot scale. The blockchain CANNOT be pruned anywhere near enough for it to be a practical, anonymous currency.

Can you support your claim that a large blockchain makes it not practical or anonymous?

With a 50% or more reduction in size, CrytoNote's blockchain bloat will be only slightly more than Bitcoin's blockchain bloat.

Certainly not right now. In 5 or more years, who can say.

OK 5 years? DRK security issues are much more urgent

What people prefers:

+ XMR or BBR's blockchain is bloated. It is larger than Bitcoin's but its privacy technology is well designed, very secure
+ DRK is insecure. Its technology is obsolete

[Brilliantrocket]

But if you use "special" nodes for special tasks with closed source software all hosted at amazon, ovh and digital ocean...its hardly decentralized, i am just waiting for the first reports of abused and confiscated mixing nodes and people losing their money...

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. At no point are the masternodes given your private keys. It is impossible for them to steal coins. That's XC you're thinking of.

[Brilliantrocket]

In regards to Anonymint, when he speaks I would pay attention. He is at genius / near genius levels when it comes to cryptography and math. If he says it cannot scale, it cannot scale. The blockchain CANNOT be pruned anywhere near enough for it to be a practical, anonymous currency.

Can you support your claim that a large blockchain makes it not practical or anonymous?

With a 50% or more reduction in size, CrytoNote's blockchain bloat will be only slightly more than Bitcoin's blockchain bloat.

Certainly not right now. In 5 or more years, who can say.

OK 5 years? DRK security issues are much more urgent

What people prefers:

+ XMR or BBR's blockchain is bloated. It is larger than Bitcoin's
+ DRK is insecure. Its technology is obsolete

English as a second language or cognitive deficiency? Hmm, hard to tell. Either way, the idea behind a discussion board is for posts to be coherent.

[darkota]

But if you use "special" nodes for special tasks with closed source software all hosted at amazon, ovh and digital ocean...its hardly decentralized, i am just waiting for the first reports of abused and confiscated mixing nodes and people losing their money...

You clearly have no idea what you are talking about. At no point are the masternodes given your private keys. It is impossible for them to steal coins. That's XC you're thinking of.

Yea, and Darkcoin's masternodes can always be DDOSed, and/or centralized by a single entity.

I don't get the point of you trying to "boost"/"protect" Darkcoin.

. Running a node for Bitcoin/Monero is cheap, Much Much cheaper than running a Masternode for Darkcoin(which costs $7,000 at todays price btw)

. Darkcoin's trivial anonymity is an "advanced" version of coinjoin, is simply mixes users coins around and hopes for the best.

+6 other Main Flaws

[Brilliantrocket]

Any non-morons want to criticize Darkcoin? I'm waiting.

[othe]

In 5 or more years you will have 1TB ssd on... mobile phones running nodes...

See you then. Meanwhile, Darkcoin will become the go to privacy-centric in several months. There are already solid ideas on how to make unmasking transactions through node collusion exceedingly difficult. Impractical even for an entity that controls half the nodes. So once that is done, what exactly does CN have to offer?

How would it become exceedingly difficult? AFAIK right now it can be done by any masternode.

Even if it's impossible, the Darksend privacy is still fundamentally flawed, see http://www.scribd.com/doc/227369807/Bitcoin-Coinjoin-Not-Anonymous-v01 and http://www.coinjoinsudoku.com/advisory/.

Monero has impractical working anonymity now.

Fixed that for you. Until I don't read about "wait for your transaction to be included guys, everything is fine!". Until it doesn't take an exorbitant amount of space to run a node. Darksend has had some big changes recently. There is never a point where a single masternode knows both the sender and recipient. By using multiple nodes, the practicality of node collusion can be eliminated.

Theres no waittime in Monero and CN in general, stop your bullshit, especially with 1 Minute blocktimes it doesnt matter if its included in the first or second block, you have no idea how mining works in general it seems, pools can include whatever tx they want.

Why the hell should someone run/use masternodes if u can archive way better anonymity without them. Theres simply no reason and will never be. Your argument is just so umbelievable stupid - people should run masternode servers (and they currently need around 7000 USD for that!) but cant store a 700 MB blockchain on their desktop pc - haha?! Does Darkcoin have Blockchain pruning? NO.

PS: You mention that Masternodes never know the sender and receiver? yeah? How the hell will YOU proof you made a Payment then? Tell me - fail by design. In Monero/CN you can do that. This basically means you Darkcoin is impractical for a lot of things, including e-commerce.

[digicoin]

I think that one of the great features of DRK is closed source Darksend 

Closed source means:

+ Trustless
+ Secure

in the way of thinking of DRK supporters/devs

[illodin]

. Running a node for Bitcoin/Monero is cheap, Much Much cheaper than running a Masternode for Darkcoin(which costs $7,000 at todays price btw)

Is this an argument for what?

. Darkcoin's trivial anonymity is an "advanced" version of coinjoin, is simply mixes users coins around and hopes for the best.

Trivial lol..

btw,

And a serious question to Evan.

Would it be possible to extend the # of participating MNs via a configurable user option to enhance anonymity past Ring Sig levels?

MN = 0 ; Normal Transaction
MN = 1 ; Current mode
MN = 2 ; Darksend+
MN = 3 ; Darksend++
MN = 4 ; Good luck NSA
MN = 5 ; OKTHXBAI

Are we concerned about bloat in this case? Too complicated for average Joe to use in GUI?

Yes it's possible.  No, the way he would do it wouldn't cause a lot of bloat.  Nor would it complicate the UI.

[darkota]

Are you being disingenuous or do you just suck at math? If you have twice the blockchain growth with just a tiny fraction of the transactions, what do you think will happen if you were at real volumes?

Transaction identification by prefix: this feature will let us to cut off ring signatures from blockchain that under checkpoint - save space by 30-70%(depends of mixin usage) -Crypto_Zoidberg, Boolberry

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=577267.0

Whoa, I wonder what that is, I wonder if you seperate the daemon and wallet, that you can create light clients so you dont have to download the full blockchain, just like with Bitcoin!

It's funny to see that you completely ignore the other points, when you've been outed as a Liar. Lmfao.

In the above quote, BrillianRocket(A huge darkcoin fanboy), wanted to know how Cryptonote's bloat of the blockchain issue could be solved, I answered that for him(He lied in a previous quote, so I addressed that too)

I've listed the Flaws of Darkcoin and Monero.

Darkcoin's Flaws:

1) Darkcoin has a 50% instamine by it's own developers during launch, as the block reward was set to 500, and there was no windows wallets/miners. Evan, the developer, and Internetape, the other developer, instamined over 1million Darkcoin's within 24 hours.

2) Darkcoin's name itself, Darkcoin, will always be affiliated with illegal activity like the Darkweb, Drugs, etc, and the name itself ensures that Darkcoin will never reach anything close to mainstream acceptance.

3) Darkcoin's "anonymity" is based on coinjoin, it simply mixes users coins around, making it harder to track it. However, if even the slightest taint if found when mixing the coins, an investigator will be able to deduce who sent what and who received what. The maker of coinjoin, Gmaxwell, deeply criticized Darkcoin since it's coinjoin based "anonymity" is basically a joke.

4) Darkcoin's mixing system/coinjoin relies on something called Masternodes, Masternodes are nodes that are set up by people, anyone can set one up, and Masternodes are the things that mix the coin around. Masternodes also present many risks besides giving trivial "anonymity", if all masternodes are owned by one individual, he will be able to "de-anonymize" Darkcoin and see all transactions clearly.

5) Darkcoin's Masternode Payment system has forked the network many times, and has failed Twice in the effort to pay the owners of Masternodes.

6) Darkcoin's Masternode/Darksend system is closed source, so that means the developers could be stealing coins, or doing any other malicious things, and it will remain unnoticed

7) The Masternodes can always be DDOSed, effectively shutting them down, if the majority of Masternodes were taken offline(they are mostly hosted on Amazon servers), then Darkcoin's trivial anonymity will completely shut off

There are many many other flaws, it will take up too much space to list, so I've listed the main ones.

Monero's Flaws:

1) Monero's bloating/scaling is an issue, where the blockchain itself takes up a lot of space on someone's computer, however, there have solutions to this, as shown by Crypto_Zoidberg, after he fixed this issue with his own coin. The issue has pretty much been fixed anyway, since bloating was caused by dust payments from pools, and with a recent update, those dust payments have been taken off. But because I think it will look to unfair compared to Darkcoin's 101 flaws, I had to list a "flaw" for Monero

2) That's it.

In the above quote, BrilliantRocket, who is a huge Darkcoinfaboy/Bagholder, is given the many Flaws of Darkcoin vs the 1 "flaw"(it's been fixed, but I wanted to make it seem "fair") of Monero.

Here is the post I referrenced earlier. It's quite a long post, but the part concerning CN is near the middle. And please don't bring up where he says Darkcoin is simple coinjoin (older post) , he acknowledges that it isn't further down.

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=557732.msg7513123#msg7513123

CryptoNote doesn't hide the amount and the payer is mixed with a limited number of numerous other potential payers, so the IP correlation can be used to narrow the possibilities statistically and home in on identity, by observing patterns across all users. Thus the lack of IP address obfuscation in CryptoNote (assuming Tor is really a honey pots, and or most users fail to employ Tor) reduces the anonymity. -gmaxwell


While it may not be able to scale at Bitcoin levels, Monero's chain atm is twice Bitcoins, which is very reasonable considering it gives the highest level of anonymity there is for cryptocoins right now. He also doesn't say Anything about it being impossible to reduce, why you may ask? Because Crypto_Zoidber already reduced it for his own coin and reduced bloat by 50%-70%, and Monero also reduced the majority of the bloat, which was caused by dust transactions. Again, BrilliantRocket, it's either you greatly misinterpret information given to you, or you lie and try to manipulate others with selective wording

_______________________________________________________________________________ _____________________________________________

CoinJoin’s algorithm suffers from not being atomic and thus it can be repeatedly jammed by an adversary, i.e. denial-of-service. This is because first the inputs have to be collected, then the outputs have to blind signed with a group signature, and then finally all inputs have to signed. If any one of the participant senders fails to complete all the steps, the transaction is jammed and the process must start again. All proposals for throttling or blacklisting adversaries was argued to be ineffective and intractable. Darkcoin innovated CoinJoin by adding a collateral payment which is forfeited by participants who fail to complete all steps. This requires a random master node to break the unlinkability as it knows the matching output of each input. It is assumed that not all master nodes will be adversaries and thus sending multiple times through different master nodes will provide a probablistic level of unlinkability. The master nodes are purchased and it isn’t clear that a sufficiently powerful adversary couldn't sufficiently Sybil attack by acquiring a larger percentage of the master nodes. There is also concern this might also enable the adversary to steal collateral payments. Also the master nodes aren’t untraceable and thus could perhaps be held liable by governments for breaking AML and KYC laws. CoinJoin and Darkcoin suffer from the simultaneity timing problem that other spenders need to send spends of the same amount simultaneously. -gmaxwell

Gmaxwell also shows that while Darkcoin have "advanced" coinjoin, it still suffers from the same issues, not to mention the Masternode centralization problem.

Darkcoin's anonymity is simply put, Trivial and Inferior to Cryptonote anonymity.

In the above quote, I copied/pasted Anonymint's words about Cryptonote/Coinjoin(Darkcoin). BrilliantRocket, had previously lied in an earlier post, so I copied Gmaxwell's wording on Cryptonote, and his wording on Darkcoin. Here is one quote from Gmaxwell concerning Masternodes themselves, " Also the master nodes aren’t untraceable and thus could perhaps be held liable by governments for breaking AML and KYC laws."


What do those three quotes have in common you may ask? All 3 of them show evidence diretly against the Lies BrilliantRocket was saying. He has yet to take on any of the evidence I have presented. There you have it, now you can all see how everything he has said was proven to be wrong, and why Darkcoin is the worst, if not, one of the worst "currencies" for anonymity/privacy-centric coins there can be.

[Brilliantrocket]

In 5 or more years you will have 1TB ssd on... mobile phones running nodes...

See you then. Meanwhile, Darkcoin will become the go to privacy-centric in several months. There are already solid ideas on how to make unmasking transactions through node collusion exceedingly difficult. Impractical even for an entity that controls half the nodes. So once that is done, what exactly does CN have to offer?

How would it become exceedingly difficult? AFAIK right now it can be done by any masternode.

Even if it's impossible, the Darksend privacy is still fundamentally flawed, see http://www.scribd.com/doc/227369807/Bitcoin-Coinjoin-Not-Anonymous-v01 and http://www.coinjoinsudoku.com/advisory/.

Monero has impractical working anonymity now.

Fixed that for you. Until I don't read about "wait for your transaction to be included guys, everything is fine!". Until it doesn't take an exorbitant amount of space to run a node. Darksend has had some big changes recently. There is never a point where a single masternode knows both the sender and recipient. By using multiple nodes, the practicality of node collusion can be eliminated.

Theres no waittime in Monero and CN in general, stop your bullshit, especially with 1 Minute blocktimes it doesnt matter if its included in the first or second block, you have no idea how mining works in general it seems, pools can include whatever tx they want.

Why the hell should someone run/use masternodes if u can archive way better anonymity without them. Theres simply no reason and will never be. Your argument is just so umbelievable stupid - people should run masternode servers (and they currently need around 7000 USD for that!) but cant store a 700 MB blockchain on their desktop pc - haha?! Does Darkcoin have Blockchain pruning? NO.

PS: You mention that Masternodes never know the sender and receiver? yeah? How the hell will YOU proof you made a Payment then? Tell me - fail by design. In Monero/CN you can do that. This basically means you Darkcoin is impractical for a lot of things, including e-commerce.

If you're referring to payment id's, you do know that's a massive security risk right? Try reading your own damn thread! This is ridiculous. The number of people who make a choice, assume they've made the right choice, and never look back is appalling.

[darkota]

In 5 or more years you will have 1TB ssd on... mobile phones running nodes...

See you then. Meanwhile, Darkcoin will become the go to privacy-centric in several months. There are already solid ideas on how to make unmasking transactions through node collusion exceedingly difficult. Impractical even for an entity that controls half the nodes. So once that is done, what exactly does CN have to offer?

How would it become exceedingly difficult? AFAIK right now it can be done by any masternode.

Even if it's impossible, the Darksend privacy is still fundamentally flawed, see http://www.scribd.com/doc/227369807/Bitcoin-Coinjoin-Not-Anonymous-v01 and http://www.coinjoinsudoku.com/advisory/.

Monero has impractical working anonymity now.

Fixed that for you. Until I don't read about "wait for your transaction to be included guys, everything is fine!". Until it doesn't take an exorbitant amount of space to run a node. Darksend has had some big changes recently. There is never a point where a single masternode knows both the sender and recipient. By using multiple nodes, the practicality of node collusion can be eliminated.

Theres no waittime in Monero and CN in general, stop your bullshit, especially with 1 Minute blocktimes it doesnt matter if its included in the first or second block, you have no idea how mining works in general it seems, pools can include whatever tx they want.

Why the hell should someone run/use masternodes if u can archive way better anonymity without them. Theres simply no reason and will never be. Your argument is just so umbelievable stupid - people should run masternode servers (and they currently need around 7000 USD for that!) but cant store a 700 MB blockchain on their desktop pc - haha?! Does Darkcoin have Blockchain pruning? NO.

PS: You mention that Masternodes never know the sender and receiver? yeah? How the hell will YOU proof you made a Payment then? Tell me - fail by design. In Monero/CN you can do that. This basically means you Darkcoin is impractical for a lot of things, including e-commerce.

If you're referring to payment id's, you do know that that's a massive security risk right? Try reading your own damn thread! This is ridiculous.

Massive security risk? Lol!!!!! Now you're definitely a troll. I'm done lmao.

Payment ID's are only used in some exchanges, Bittrex for example, doesn't require any Payments ID's. They are not used when sending coins to another individual, only to exchanges since Monero is anonymous, and they need a way to transfer the coins to your exchange's account's wallet.

[Brilliantrocket]

In response to my previous request, I guess the answer is no

[digicoin]

payment ID is for exchange. It is not recommended by devs  

@Brilliantrocket  You are trying too hard but DRK is not an option for anonymity

[Brilliantrocket]

payment ID is for exchange. It is not recommended by devs  

@Brilliantrocket  You are trying too hard but DRK is not an option for anonymity

I've already stated that anonymity is a fallacy. You're not getting anywhere.

[illodin]

"master nodes aren’t untraceable"
Doesn't monero have nodes? Yes? Are they untraceable?

Monero doesnt need nodes for mixing, If you use that argument than bitcoin is also centralized which is of course non-sense because its a p2p network.

Who said anything about mixing? Argument was that a government could take down the nodes of a coin or hold people running one liable for breaking whatever law.

"Masternode centralization problem"
Doesn't monero have nodes? Yes? => "centralization problem"

Nonsene again, of course a p2p network uses nodes thats why its DECENTRALIZED.

Exactly, masternodes and regular wallets form a decentralized network.

But if you use "special" nodes for special tasks with closed source software all hosted at amazon, ovh and digital ocean...its hardly decentralized, i am just waiting for the first reports of abused and confiscated mixing nodes and people losing their money...

Source will be opened, in not so far future. And, when running a masternode, you can keep your 1000 coins in a local cold wallet, and the masternode's wallet doesn't even have to be encrypted! It doesn't hold any coins!

The reason that Amazon has so many masternodes, is because the first step-by-step guide to run one used Amazon as an example. This will change in time I'm sure. Here is the current node distribution by operator: http://drk.poolhash.org/darksend.html

[digicoin]

Who said anything about mixing? Argument was that a government could take down the nodes of a coin or hold people running one liable for breaking whatever law.

>> government could take down the nodes of a coin

Yes, government can take DRK masternodes but not Bitcoin or XMR nodes

Exactly, masternodes and regular wallets form a decentralized network.

There are a big difference between masternodes (Darksend) and regular wallets (DRK daemon). What do you mean here?