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Author Topic: [XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos  (Read 1481776 times)
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July 20, 2014, 07:37:35 PM
 #17061

Anyway Guys in the PR Team get a hang with yourself in what you are doing and coordinate your News release with Dan and the Dev Team as Since the Release of Rev 2 there is a lot of confusion on where we are at the moment what we need to expect for the future and when.


I'm fully up to speed on the tech developments. I think that what's been happening is that people keep on recycling misinformation instead of reading my replies to them.

I've been saying since 7/7/14 that Rev 2 functionality is here.

Multipath is implemented and working, and what's more, we put in trustless mixing too.

I've been saying since 7/7/14 that you don't have to worry about 550XC for now and that every node is now an Xnode.




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July 20, 2014, 07:38:09 PM
 #17062



Let me ask a few last questions: we have a multinode anon feature like as DRk? and we have a trustless mixer mixer on top? all fully working?

You have to excuse the confusion as Dan posted the following on the 15th of this month:

The current REV2 test-release will be updated, additional data collected and then the final rev2 will be released

Dan

I'm still confused?

Is it that fully operational multinodes with the 550 XC doesn't come till REV3? As I thought that we were getting the same set up as DRK in REV2 that was due out on the 7/7/14?

*edit: my autocorrect changed multinode to multimode. Multinode multipath means sending fragments to several nodes and not just one.

This compounds anonymity.

XC is not like DRK. DRK is semi-centralised, meaning that a small number of masternodes exist relative to the number of normal DRK wallets.

Every single XC app is an XC node. It's completely decentralised. This is an improvement on the masternode (generic term: supernode) for two reasons:
- you don't create supernodes, which are big attractive targets for hackers

- you don't doubly incentivise hackers by requiring a large amount of coins be kept at a supernode.


The 550XC requirement was for the "dynamic trust" concept for XC nodes. Since nodes are now trustless, we're still working out what the minimum balance will be. For now, you don't need 550XC.

Lastly, Rev 2 is multinode multipath trustless mixing. We released that on 7/7/14. The "final Rev 2" isn't any new features, its just the same features improved refined, and well-tested.

When we release the final Rev 2 it just means we've started building Rev 3. It doesn't mean we've put any new paradigms into it.

And yes, expect a new privacy feature for Rev 3.



Will EM be built into Final Rev 2 Arlyn?
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July 20, 2014, 07:41:08 PM
 #17063



Let me ask a few last questions: we have a multinode anon feature like as DRk? and we have a trustless mixer mixer on top? all fully working?

You have to excuse the confusion as Dan posted the following on the 15th of this month:

The current REV2 test-release will be updated, additional data collected and then the final rev2 will be released

Dan

I'm still confused?

Is it that fully operational multinodes with the 550 XC doesn't come till REV3? As I thought that we were getting the same set up as DRK in REV2 that was due out on the 7/7/14?

*edit: my autocorrect changed multinode to multimode. Multinode multipath means sending fragments to several nodes and not just one.

This compounds anonymity.

XC is not like DRK. DRK is semi-centralised, meaning that a small number of masternodes exist relative to the number of normal DRK wallets.

Every single XC app is an XC node. It's completely decentralised. This is an improvement on the masternode (generic term: supernode) for two reasons:
- you don't create supernodes, which are big attractive targets for hackers

- you don't doubly incentivise hackers by requiring a large amount of coins be kept at a supernode.


The 550XC requirement was for the "dynamic trust" concept for XC nodes. Since nodes are now trustless, we're still working out what the minimum balance will be. For now, you don't need 550XC.

Lastly, Rev 2 is multinode multipath trustless mixing. We released that on 7/7/14. The "final Rev 2" isn't any new features, its just the same features improved refined, and well-tested.

When we release the final Rev 2 it just means we've started building Rev 3. It doesn't mean we've put any new paradigms into it.

And yes, expect a new privacy feature for Rev 3.



Thanks synechist.

However, I still don't think you understand what we're saying. Nowhere has Dan said or documented that multinode multipath is in the released beta. I think we all agree that decentralized trustless mixing is released and functional on mainnet. I also think that we're all on the same page with regard to the updated xnode requirements.
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July 20, 2014, 07:43:33 PM
 #17064



Let me ask a few last questions: we have a multinode anon feature like as DRk? and we have a trustless mixer mixer on top? all fully working?

You have to excuse the confusion as Dan posted the following on the 15th of this month:

The current REV2 test-release will be updated, additional data collected and then the final rev2 will be released

Dan

I'm still confused?

Is it that fully operational multinodes with the 550 XC doesn't come till REV3? As I thought that we were getting the same set up as DRK in REV2 that was due out on the 7/7/14?

*edit: my autocorrect changed multinode to multimode. Multinode multipath means sending fragments to several nodes and not just one.

This compounds anonymity.

XC is not like DRK. DRK is semi-centralised, meaning that a small number of masternodes exist relative to the number of normal DRK wallets.

Every single XC app is an XC node. It's completely decentralised. This is an improvement on the masternode (generic term: supernode) for two reasons:
- you don't create supernodes, which are big attractive targets for hackers

- you don't doubly incentivise hackers by requiring a large amount of coins be kept at a supernode.


The 550XC requirement was for the "dynamic trust" concept for XC nodes. Since nodes are now trustless, we're still working out what the minimum balance will be. For now, you don't need 550XC.

Lastly, Rev 2 is multinode multipath trustless mixing. We released that on 7/7/14. The "final Rev 2" isn't any new features, its just the same features improved refined, and well-tested.

When we release the final Rev 2 it just means we've started building Rev 3. It doesn't mean we've put any new paradigms into it.

And yes, expect a new privacy feature for Rev 3.



Will EM be built into Final Rev 2 Arlyn?

EM is a Rev 2.5 release, so don't expect it to be implemented in the final Rev 2.

However it's possible it'll be in the final Rev 2 release as a testnet-only or generally "alpha" feature.

But this would be a bonus, if it happens. For now we just want to get trustless multinode multipath done and dusted. Once that's done we'll move onto getting secure private messaging looking awesome.


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July 20, 2014, 07:45:41 PM
 #17065



Let me ask a few last questions: we have a multinode anon feature like as DRk? and we have a trustless mixer mixer on top? all fully working?

You have to excuse the confusion as Dan posted the following on the 15th of this month:

The current REV2 test-release will be updated, additional data collected and then the final rev2 will be released

Dan

I'm still confused?

Is it that fully operational multinodes with the 550 XC doesn't come till REV3? As I thought that we were getting the same set up as DRK in REV2 that was due out on the 7/7/14?

*edit: my autocorrect changed multinode to multimode. Multinode multipath means sending fragments to several nodes and not just one.

This compounds anonymity.

XC is not like DRK. DRK is semi-centralised, meaning that a small number of masternodes exist relative to the number of normal DRK wallets.

Every single XC app is an XC node. It's completely decentralised. This is an improvement on the masternode (generic term: supernode) for two reasons:
- you don't create supernodes, which are big attractive targets for hackers

- you don't doubly incentivise hackers by requiring a large amount of coins be kept at a supernode.


The 550XC requirement was for the "dynamic trust" concept for XC nodes. Since nodes are now trustless, we're still working out what the minimum balance will be. For now, you don't need 550XC.

Lastly, Rev 2 is multinode multipath trustless mixing. We released that on 7/7/14. The "final Rev 2" isn't any new features, its just the same features improved refined, and well-tested.

When we release the final Rev 2 it just means we've started building Rev 3. It doesn't mean we've put any new paradigms into it.

And yes, expect a new privacy feature for Rev 3.



Thanks synechist.

However, I still don't think you understand what we're saying. Nowhere has Dan said or documented that multinode multipath is in the released beta. I think we all agree that decentralized trustless mixing is released and functional on mainnet. I also think that we're all on the same page with regard to the updated xnode requirements.

Hmm... well, we promised multipath for Rev 2, and that's what we delivered, and then some.

I mean, it goes without saying that it's implemented.

On 7/7/14 it went live on testnet, and since then we've been refining it.



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July 20, 2014, 07:51:33 PM
 #17066

these ppl are keeping asking same questions again and again.

so s*****
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July 20, 2014, 07:53:50 PM
 #17067

these ppl are keeping asking same questions again and again.

so s*****

Yeah, but it's ok. I don't mind talking. :-)

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July 20, 2014, 07:56:06 PM
 #17068

these ppl are keeping asking same questions again and again.

so s*****

Yeah, but it's ok. I don't mind talking. :-)

Also I think that when Rev 2 came out two things confused people
- it went out on testnet so they thought multipath wasn't implemented

- the next two days were full of emotion and there were other major announcements. This meant that the info we gave on Rev 2 got lost in the noise.


So I'm happy to just keep supplying the right information until everyone knows the picture.



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July 20, 2014, 07:57:37 PM
 #17069



I'd like to know when we are getting our fully working Xnode anon system that we were promised, instead we got a mixer?


Hi Leigh

We're on Rev 2.45 already. Rev 2 tech has been working since 7/7/14.


To explain:

- Rev 2 is multipath

- Additionally it is multinode multipath, not just fragments sent to a single node for forwarding

- Trustless mixing is an improvement upon the "dynamic trust system" that was originally proposed. There's now no need to trust any nodes.

- Trustless mixing wasn't going to be a Rev 2 feature, but we included it anyway (under-promise, over-deliver, you know?)

- So you got multipath PLUS a trustless mixer.

- And, of course, trustless mixing is a world first.


So there's no question about waiting for working Xnodes. They've been here for a while.

In fact I've replied to you about three times about this already if I'm not mistaken. Sorry if you missed them.






Thank you for the update synechist, what may help is having a laymen explanation of all the amazing features of XC.

I have a feeling that for a lot of investors English is not their first language, also we have a lot of new investors who are trying to get a grip of all the terminology.

It would help to have a definition for each item. e.g.

multinode is .....

multipath is ....

trustless mixer is ......

dynamic trust system is ....

Xnode is ....


Thank you in advance!
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July 20, 2014, 08:08:05 PM
 #17070

Yes as well no official Bounty to Crack Rev2 was announced as it was promised before the release and Dan Re-itereted that was a beta release. so everyone is still waitng for the Full Release and the bounty announcement. By the way in the Noise it was announced as well that Every wallet now was supposed to work as an xnode, that is a freaking HUGE OVERDELIVERED progress that was fucked up with the announcements of the after REV2 release and not advertised properly for the revolution that it is.

Furthermore xnodes still do not collect fees and still we do not know how many coins you are supposed to keep in the wallet for an xnode.

For what I understood before the 7/7/ release would have Brought:

- Complete anonimity with multipath fully implemented and trustless nodes.

- Complete working Xnodes ready to collect fees with 550 coins in them.

- Big Bounty to crack anonimity.


What was delivered was TEST NET Multipath with trustless nodes, Test decentralised Xnodes, Each wallet as an xnode, HUGE but still not Complete, No Bounty.

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July 20, 2014, 08:08:23 PM
 #17071

This currency is going to be HUGE.


edit: I don't know why people are complaining? The devs deliver and will continue to do so. You're mad because you need to wait another week for the price to boom? If not then why are you even complaining? If you believe in XC then you don't mind waiting.
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July 20, 2014, 08:10:56 PM
 #17072



Let me ask a few last questions: we have a multinode anon feature like as DRk? and we have a trustless mixer mixer on top? all fully working?

You have to excuse the confusion as Dan posted the following on the 15th of this month:

The current REV2 test-release will be updated, additional data collected and then the final rev2 will be released

Dan

I'm still confused?

Is it that fully operational multinodes with the 550 XC doesn't come till REV3? As I thought that we were getting the same set up as DRK in REV2 that was due out on the 7/7/14?

*edit: my autocorrect changed multinode to multimode. Multinode multipath means sending fragments to several nodes and not just one.

This compounds anonymity.

XC is not like DRK. DRK is semi-centralised, meaning that a small number of masternodes exist relative to the number of normal DRK wallets.

Every single XC app is an XC node. It's completely decentralised. This is an improvement on the masternode (generic term: supernode) for two reasons:
- you don't create supernodes, which are big attractive targets for hackers

- you don't doubly incentivise hackers by requiring a large amount of coins be kept at a supernode.


The 550XC requirement was for the "dynamic trust" concept for XC nodes. Since nodes are now trustless, we're still working out what the minimum balance will be. For now, you don't need 550XC.

Lastly, Rev 2 is multinode multipath trustless mixing. We released that on 7/7/14. The "final Rev 2" isn't any new features, its just the same features improved refined, and well-tested.

When we release the final Rev 2 it just means we've started building Rev 3. It doesn't mean we've put any new paradigms into it.

And yes, expect a new privacy feature for Rev 3.



Thanks synechist.

However, I still don't think you understand what we're saying. Nowhere has Dan said or documented that multinode multipath is in the released beta. I think we all agree that decentralized trustless mixing is released and functional on mainnet. I also think that we're all on the same page with regard to the updated xnode requirements.

Hmm... well, we promised multipath for Rev 2, and that's what we delivered, and then some.

I mean, it goes without saying that it's implemented.

On 7/7/14 it went live on testnet, and since then we've been refining it.




Le sigh... I'll continue to post references... And no, it doesn't go without saying because no one can verify in the source.

Here's the first REV2 release for mainnet. Note it says "decentralised trustless mixing", not multipath.

http://downloads.xc-official.com/release/wallets/dtm-beta/XC-v0.9.2.3x11-coin-1.0.zip




I have good news: Rev 2 Beta 2 is now on mainnet!


You can now download it from the url posted.

This is not the final Rev 2 app. Anon features are only accessible from the command line. However, decentralised trustless mixing is working through a simple rpc command via the debug console.

This is beta software. Please back up your wallet.dat before using it.  Also this release changes everything to XCurrency including the %appdata% directory

An updated UI will be released with the privacy mode available through the coin control page.

If your testing the distmix command, read the distmix.txt in the zip

PM me with any issues or questions

ATCSECURE


Next minor update... just an openssl fix. No multipath.


Oh, here's another update. Still no multipath.


http://downloads.xc-official.com/release/windows/XC-v0.9.2.3.zip


updated

there was a bug, on TX OUT, resolved

And another update with U/I enhancements. Still no mention of multipath.



http://downloads.xc-official.com/release/windows/XCv0.9.2.40XCurrency-2.42.zip


Here is the updated beta with support for private transactions through the UI, no more debug console needed


To you use, enable coin control, and then hit the checkbox next to "Send"


Please keep in mind this is still a test release, additional updates are still coming




I'll skip the EM updates in the interest of not boring people...

And finally, the last heard from Dan...

Yes you are right.

But you guys forget, the same trick I can easily make with BTC. There are many mixers too.

So this kind of anonymity is not a destiny choice feature, that I should leave well tested & open source BTC and switch to poorly tested & closed source XC. Agree?


Hiding your addresses? No, you can't perform the same trick with BTC because ONLY XC has trustless mixing.


Sorry, while XC sources remain closed, I need to trust in Dan (XC's dev) I never ever seen in real life nor been a friend of.

So neither BTC nor XC has trustless mixing today (and possibly many months or years if ever).


XC has decentralized trustless mixing today and the source code will be open sourced in the future

Still no mention of multipath.

Edit. Still no mention of multipath multinode.
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July 20, 2014, 08:12:06 PM
 #17073

Thank you for the update synechist, what may help is having a laymen explanation of all the amazing features of XC.

I have a feeling that for a lot of investors English is not their first language, also we have a lot of new investors who are trying to get a grip of all the terminology.

It would help to have a definition for each item.

multipath is .... splitting transactions into fragments so that nobody can tell how much you send or receive from a given party.

multinode is ..... sending transaction fragments to multiple other nodes instead of sending all the fragments to just one node. This prevents someone adding up the fragments and then identifying which address the node forwarded this amount to.

mixing is ..... when a node receives a fragment it then forwards it onto the next node from a different address to the one it was received from, so that nobody can connect the receipt of coins from the sending onward.

trustless mixing is ...... when a node mixes and forwards a transaction without being able to steal the coins.  

dynamic trust system is .... no longer necessary. It was a way of downrating/banning nodes for bad service.

Xnode is .... the XC app.

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July 20, 2014, 08:13:43 PM
 #17074

Thank you for the update synechist, what may help is having a laymen explanation of all the amazing features of XC.

I have a feeling that for a lot of investors English is not their first language, also we have a lot of new investors who are trying to get a grip of all the terminology.

It would help to have a definition for each item.

multipath is .... splitting transactions into fragments so that nobody can tell how much you send or receive from a given party.

multinode is ..... sending transaction fragments to multiple other nodes instead of sending all the fragments to just one node. This prevents someone adding up the fragments and then identifying which address the node forwarded this amount to.

mixing is ..... when a node receives a fragment it then forwards it onto the next node from a different address to the one it was received from, so that nobody can connect the receipt of coins from the sending onward.

trustless mixing is ...... when a node mixes and forwards a transaction without being able to steal the coins.  

dynamic trust system is .... no longer necessary. It was a way of downrating/banning nodes for bad service.

Xnode is .... the XC app.


Thanks for the definitions.
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July 20, 2014, 08:16:42 PM
 #17075


Le sigh... I'll continue to post references... And no, it doesn't go without saying because no one can verify in the source.

Here's the first REV2 release for mainnet. Note it says "decentralised trustless mixing", not multipath.


Do you seriously need Dan to come here and say that XC has multipath? I've just told you it does. What more do you want?

If Dan says it you still won't have access to the source code to how will this help you?

Furthermore you can make a private payment and then watch the fragments going out on any block explorer. That's multipath.



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July 20, 2014, 08:16:52 PM
 #17076

Thank you for the update synechist, what may help is having a laymen explanation of all the amazing features of XC.

I have a feeling that for a lot of investors English is not their first language, also we have a lot of new investors who are trying to get a grip of all the terminology.

It would help to have a definition for each item.

multipath is .... splitting transactions into fragments so that nobody can tell how much you send or receive from a given party.

multinode is ..... sending transaction fragments to multiple other nodes instead of sending all the fragments to just one node. This prevents someone adding up the fragments and then identifying which address the node forwarded this amount to.

mixing is ..... when a node receives a fragment it then forwards it onto the next node from a different address to the one it was received from, so that nobody can connect the receipt of coins from the sending onward.

trustless mixing is ...... when a node mixes and forwards a transaction without being able to steal the coins.  

dynamic trust system is .... no longer necessary. It was a way of downrating/banning nodes for bad service.

Xnode is .... the XC app.



Thank you for this! Needs to be on the first post/website. If we want XC to be implemented in everyday life then we need to help people understand what it is and what it does in layman terms.
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July 20, 2014, 08:22:40 PM
 #17077

hey synechist thanx for your updates. Might I suggest something? I d love it if every new wallet/app release on OP is clarified with bold letters, along with its features(multipath, EM etc). I believe that itd be easier than just trying to quote ur older messages or reply ourselves. I believe that the community's engagement is actually undermining your work, because people try to share the tech/features/updates without being able to grasp them them or describe them 100%, thus creating confusion.

Apart from that, Id love to see that new roadmap as well, it might clear things a bit!

XCurrency Price Speculation Topic
Coin Control Basic guide                                                                XChat address/private/instant/absolute: XSKu1fpwvRcAekfK91qVHi51Tgz4ckoA91
XChat public key: zcfx74j4fFK9hW7rQniTvLyDyXd9SyRCrncP9vdukbVT
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July 20, 2014, 08:22:50 PM
 #17078

Thank you for this! Needs to be on the first post/website. If we want XC to be implemented in everyday life then we need to help people understand what it is and what it does in layman terms.

Sure. The website is being continuously updated as new tech arrives and we'll try to maintain all the content.

If you find out-of-date content then by all means, contact me.

There's a new OP coming with updated info and a new look.



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July 20, 2014, 08:23:40 PM
 #17079


Le sigh... I'll continue to post references... And no, it doesn't go without saying because no one can verify in the source.

Here's the first REV2 release for mainnet. Note it says "decentralised trustless mixing", not multipath.


Do you seriously need Dan to come here and say that XC has multipath? I've just told you it does. What more do you want?

If Dan says it you still won't have access to the source code to how will this help you?

Furthermore you can make a private payment and then watch the fragments going out on any block explorer. That's multipath.




Yes, because it is important to note that development of the features has progressed as advertised. All I'm saying is that there are discrepancies between what PR says is released and what the developer says is released. This causes confusion. While PR is saying that more features are released than development has announced verbally, it just sounds like hype and no delivery. You have to understand we're all told to just "trust you" at face value for what we read in these forums. I'm not one to sit by idly and just "trust" someone without well-rounded communication.
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July 20, 2014, 08:25:14 PM
 #17080

hey synechist thanx for your updates. Might I suggest something? I d love it if every new wallet/app release on OP is clarified with bold letters, along with its features(multipath, EM etc). I believe that itd be easier than just trying to quote ur older messages or reply ourselves. I believe that the community's engagement is actually undermining your work, because people try to share the tech/features/updates without being able to grasp them them or describe them 100%, thus creating confusion.

Apart from that, Id love to see that new roadmap as well, it might clear things a bit!

This. If it came from the developers first.

Edit: and preferably spelled out in the release notes for each download.
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