[XC][XCurrency] Decentralised Trustless Privacy Platform / Encrypted XChat / Pos

[CryptoGoon]

I like how XC is staying 'undervalued' despite the news, show these weak hands no mercy. I'm all in and hodling.

[synechist]

Ok wait a minute...

On the OP it says every XC client is a node (giving the impression that EVERY client forwards these fragments). Then on the FAQ on your site it says that an XNode is what processes the transactions and you need 550XC to run one (giving me the impression that only XNodes that people setup forward the fragments). Then, on your site there's news of "XMixer"...

Ok so, when you send an anon transaction what happens? How many fragments does it split into (or does that just depend on the size)? Who is involved in forwarding these fragments, all online clients? Just the XNodes? The XMixers? Through how many clients/nodes/mixers does each fragment pass through before it gets to its destination? So many questions. I could go on.

At first glance I was lead into thinking that each transaction is split in to fragments of random amounts, which are each passed through a random amount of online wallets (normal users, anyone and everyone on the network) before each fragment reaches its destination (the person receiving the funds) at different times. Which would be really awesome. But after digging deeper it seems only XNodes handle this? Where does the mixer come in?

I'm not sure if I'm being mislead or if I'm just an idiot who doesn't understand, would love an explanation of how this actually works. I like to invest in innovative technology not hype and PR. Sorry if I'm coming across as an asshole . This seems interesting but I either don't have a clue how it works, or the explanations are misleading.

Cheers!

EDIT: For now I'm going to assume "XNodes" don't exist and have been replaced by "XMixers", and that fragments are forwarded through ALL online wallets, and the reason for these "XMixers" is because a fragment can't pass through a wallet if the wallet doesn't have at least as many coins to cover the fragment? Is this correct? In that case do all wallet clients (which I'm assuming fragments are forwarded through) also mix their funds with the fragments?
If not, why in that case does a wallet have to cover a fragment for it to pass through (I'm assuming it does have to, otherwise why the mixers?) ARGH these are all blind assumptions!! Hahaha

Someone help me out?

website is still not updated compleately

everything is explained here in Expanding XC's capacity:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg8806414#msg8806414

The bold part in my quote, I now understand you can't forward a bigger fragment through a wallet than the amount stored in the wallet because then it's obvious that it's not a normal payment, duuh. (conversing with myself here wtf)

Yeah I read that, and it all started to make sense until hoooold on! "There might not be enough nodes making private payments at a given time, causing transactions to wait or be canceled." - I was under the impression fragments can be forwarded through ANY online wallet as long as the wallet balance covers the balance of the fragment... That sentence just threw me right off!

You have two sending options, Private and open. Open is just like every other coin.
A Private XC transaction is handled uniquely to other coins protected by being opensource on a delayed timeline.
In short plain English here is my interpretation of how XC handles anon transactions:
Person A wants to send 50 XC to Person B anonymously.
Leaving Person A's wallet the transaction passes other wallets and gets scrambled with other transactions. Visually think about the transaction getting fragmented at every wallet, the fragments then hit other wallets where they are fragmented again. The fragments are being mixed with other transactions fragments. The fragments knows where they are going, so they stop at the wallet B, but because there are fragments going all the time it is hard to tell the pieces from the whole.
Every wallet is called a node, there is no lower limits on a node.

With the above picture you can tell that if only one transaction is being fragmented at a given time you could datamine where it came from and where it was going. This is where XCMixers comes in. The mixers are at all time loaded with 1000 XC and these coins are used to cause additional "explotions" ensuring that the fragments are always concealed. The number has to be big to ensure that large transactions can be concealed.

Anyway this is how I understand XC, but I'm sure the team can describe it better than I, I hope it helps until they get online.

Yeah, if it worked like this that would be even more awesome than what I originally assumed... But you see if it worked how you said then surely there'd be no reason for the mixers? Unless the mixers are PURELY there to cover BIG ass transactions so they can then send tons of tiny fragments small enough for the nodes (any online wallet client???) to handle...

But then again... Read that sentence I quoted from that news post... That makes it sound like only nodes making private payments at a given time are used to forward transactions  

Fact of the matter is, the explanations we've been given can be interpreted however the hell we like, I think a dev needs to come n put an end to this dilemma.

Hey Tingcoin

Thanks for wrestling with the details. I appreciate your giving XC this kind of critical attention.

Apologies for the confusion. Ignore the website - it's currently out of date. We've just released this software and some stuff is still playing catch-up.

For now, the press release on the Xmixer contains correct information: http://bit.ly/xmixerintro

If, after reading it, you're still confused as to the role of Xmixers vs regular nodes, post us your thoughts here. I'd be more than happy to talk it through.

[synechist]

For anyone wondering what the buzz is about, here's all XC's news yesterday:

http://xctalk.com/index.php?/topic/194-finalised-rev-2-privacy-technology/

[synechist]

For anyone wondering what the buzz is about, here's all XC's news yesterday:

http://xctalk.com/index.php?/topic/194-finalised-rev-2-privacy-technology/

Oh and this happened:

Awwww sheeeiiittt. Bitcoin Magazine just tweeted this-

"I thought I had quit altcoins for a bit until I used the decentralized encrypted chat embedded in the XC client. Pretty slick! @XCurrency"

that just went out to 29,000 followers. If the team hasn't already, time to get them to do a write up for us....or maybe that's happening on Wednesday

https://twitter.com/BitcoinMagazine/status/511698895647551489

[adhitthana]

XC continues to improve, as does this discussion. Thank to Cryptico and Dungor (and the team of course)...and Tingcoin for good questions. The FUD is being left behind as this coin and it's community moves ahead.

[peppo13]

Hey all.

Do I need to do anything special to begin receiving xmixer rewards?

after downloading last wallet:

http[Suspicious link removed]

you will need to set it up as an xmixer:

you will need to create a shortcut of the app on the desktop and then put the command -distmix-autonode in properties>target to make it start as an xnode.

To create the shortcut go on C:>programs86>xcurrency>click on the xcurrency-qt.exe with right mouse button and click on create shortcut.

When you have the short cut in the desktop click with right mouse button and click on properties then on "target" at the end of the string where you have the " symbol  click space and add -distmix-autonode.

Click on apply.

Then start the app from the short cut and you got your node running.

To be fully working you will need to have the port 32348 of your router open to check if it is open go on this webiste.

http://www.yougetsignal.com/tools/open-ports/

off course you will need to have 1000 xc in the wallet Dan yesterday was saying to transfer the funds 250xc at a time..don't know why

Have everything setup as per above, how can I see that its running as an xmixer?? wallet looks just the same as before :S

[Gumpty]

Ok wait a minute...

On the OP it says every XC client is a node (giving the impression that EVERY client forwards these fragments). Then on the FAQ on your site it says that an XNode is what processes the transactions and you need 550XC to run one (giving me the impression that only XNodes that people setup forward the fragments). Then, on your site there's news of "XMixer"...

Ok so, when you send an anon transaction what happens? How many fragments does it split into (or does that just depend on the size)? Who is involved in forwarding these fragments, all online clients? Just the XNodes? The XMixers? Through how many clients/nodes/mixers does each fragment pass through before it gets to its destination? So many questions. I could go on.

At first glance I was lead into thinking that each transaction is split in to fragments of random amounts, which are each passed through a random amount of online wallets (normal users, anyone and everyone on the network) before each fragment reaches its destination (the person receiving the funds) at different times. Which would be really awesome. But after digging deeper it seems only XNodes handle this? Where does the mixer come in?

I'm not sure if I'm being mislead or if I'm just an idiot who doesn't understand, would love an explanation of how this actually works. I like to invest in innovative technology not hype and PR. Sorry if I'm coming across as an asshole . This seems interesting but I either don't have a clue how it works, or the explanations are misleading.

Cheers!

EDIT: For now I'm going to assume "XNodes" don't exist and have been replaced by "XMixers", and that fragments are forwarded through ALL online wallets, and the reason for these "XMixers" is because a fragment can't pass through a wallet if the wallet doesn't have at least as many coins to cover the fragment? Is this correct? In that case do all wallet clients (which I'm assuming fragments are forwarded through) also mix their funds with the fragments?
If not, why in that case does a wallet have to cover a fragment for it to pass through (I'm assuming it does have to, otherwise why the mixers?) ARGH these are all blind assumptions!! Hahaha

Someone help me out?

website is still not updated compleately

everything is explained here in Expanding XC's capacity:

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=630547.msg8806414#msg8806414

The bold part in my quote, I now understand you can't forward a bigger fragment through a wallet than the amount stored in the wallet because then it's obvious that it's not a normal payment, duuh. (conversing with myself here wtf)

Yeah I read that, and it all started to make sense until hoooold on! "There might not be enough nodes making private payments at a given time, causing transactions to wait or be canceled." - I was under the impression fragments can be forwarded through ANY online wallet as long as the wallet balance covers the balance of the fragment... That sentence just threw me right off!

You have two sending options, Private and open. Open is just like every other coin.
A Private XC transaction is handled uniquely to other coins protected by being opensource on a delayed timeline.
In short plain English here is my interpretation of how XC handles anon transactions:
Person A wants to send 50 XC to Person B anonymously.
Leaving Person A's wallet the transaction passes other wallets and gets scrambled with other transactions. Visually think about the transaction getting fragmented at every wallet, the fragments then hit other wallets where they are fragmented again. The fragments are being mixed with other transactions fragments. The fragments knows where they are going, so they stop at the wallet B, but because there are fragments going all the time it is hard to tell the pieces from the whole.
Every wallet is called a node, there is no lower limits on a node.

With the above picture you can tell that if only one transaction is being fragmented at a given time you could datamine where it came from and where it was going. This is where XCMixers comes in. The mixers are at all time loaded with 1000 XC and these coins are used to cause additional "explotions" ensuring that the fragments are always concealed. The number has to be big to ensure that large transactions can be concealed.

Anyway this is how I understand XC, but I'm sure the team can describe it better than I, I hope it helps until they get online.

Yeah, if it worked like this that would be even more awesome than what I originally assumed... But you see if it worked how you said then surely there'd be no reason for the mixers? Unless the mixers are PURELY there to cover BIG ass transactions so they can then send tons of tiny fragments small enough for the nodes (any online wallet client???) to handle...

But then again... Read that sentence I quoted from that news post... That makes it sound like only nodes making private payments at a given time are used to forward transactions  

Fact of the matter is, the explanations we've been given can be interpreted however the hell we like, I think a dev needs to come n put an end to this dilemma.

Hey Tingcoin

Thanks for wrestling with the details. I appreciate your giving XC this kind of critical attention.

Apologies for the confusion. Ignore the website - it's currently out of date. We've just released this software and some stuff is still playing catch-up.

For now, the press release on the Xmixer contains correct information: http://[Suspicious link removed]/xmixerintro

If, after reading it, you're still confused as to the role of Xmixers vs regular nodes, post us your thoughts here. I'd be more than happy to talk it through.

Instead, every XCurrency node – whether an Xmixer or a regular app – participates equally in private transactions and trustlessly forwards fragments. In other words, all XC nodes mix, but only Xmixers participate automatically in private transactions even when their users are not transacting.

Hello

Been following XC since halfway through the first thread (so quite a while) and would like to add a few questions of my own to really drill into the details.

Does this mean that an XNode, which is not an XMixer, will only participate in mixing when the user of the wallet manually initiates a private transaction by sending some coins?  It therefore does not interfere with the coins staking in the wallet until the user manually initiates a new private transaction?

In this case will the XNode be acting as a full XMixer, forwarding coins for other user's transactions, as well as it's own private transaction?  If I have an XNode with a balance of 100XC and I send you 5XC do I still have 95XC capable of staking, or will I need to wait for the coin age of my whole balance to reset again? Perhaps this depends on how my coins are arranged into addresses within my wallet?

Apologies for the barrage of questions, just curious as to the details of how the terms "forward" and "mix" apply to "XNodes" and "XMixers" and under which circumstances there may be a difference and what that difference may be.

[cryptico]

Have everything setup as per above, how can I see that its running as an xmixer?? wallet looks just the same as before :S

you cannot see it in the UI for the moment you will know that it is working when you will start to mix transactions.

It will look like this:

[synechist]

Hi guys,

I've just discovered XC and it looks pretty amazing.

If you have technical documents / articles on how exactly it works (I want to go deep), it'll be a pleasure for me to read them. Thanks.

Also, regarding the price of XC, it looks amazingly stable and strong.

It's definitely on my radar. I started to buy some today and I'll keep accumulating.

Hey Cloakko

Welcome! Here's some info on XC's tech:

- XChat: http://xc-official.com/introducing-xchat-more-private-than-bittorrent-bleep-and-more-secure-than-protonmail.html

- Web 3.0 (distributed content delivery service): http://xc-official.com/xc-pioneers-web-3.0-with-blockchain-based-content-delivery.html

- Xmixer: http://bit.ly/xmixerintro

- Trustless multipath meshnet: http://xctalk.com/index.php?/topic/194-finalised-rev-2-privacy-technology/#entry1215

- General overview and timeline: this thread's OP.


Any questions, don't hesitate to post them here.

[synechist]

Hey Tingcoin

Thanks for wrestling with the details. I appreciate your giving XC this kind of critical attention.

Apologies for the confusion. Ignore the website - it's currently out of date. We've just released this software and some stuff is still playing catch-up.

For now, the press release on the Xmixer contains correct information: http://bit.ly/xmixerintro

If, after reading it, you're still confused as to the role of Xmixers vs regular nodes, post us your thoughts here. I'd be more than happy to talk it through.

Instead, every XCurrency node – whether an Xmixer or a regular app – participates equally in private transactions and trustlessly forwards fragments. In other words, all XC nodes mix, but only Xmixers participate automatically in private transactions even when their users are not transacting.

Hello

Been following XC since halfway through the first thread (so quite a while) and would like to add a few questions of my own to really drill into the details.

Does this mean that an XNode, which is not an XMixer, will only participate in mixing when the user of the wallet manually initiates a private transaction by sending some coins?  It therefore does not interfere with the coins staking in the wallet until the user manually initiates a new private transaction?

In this case will the XNode be acting as a full XMixer, forwarding coins for other user's transactions, as well as it's own private transaction?  If I have an XNode with a balance of 100XC and I send you 5XC do I still have 95XC capable of staking, or will I need to wait for the coin age of my whole balance to reset again? Perhaps this depends on how my coins are arranged into addresses within my wallet?

Apologies for the barrage of questions, just curious as to the details of how the terms "forward" and "mix" apply to "XNodes" and "XMixers" and under which circumstances there may be a difference and what that difference may be.

Hey Gumpty

Barrages of questions are most welcome. :-)

You're correct that Xnodes (regular XC apps) only participate in mixing when their users manually initiate private transactions.

You're also correct that this leaves the coins peacefully in your wallet to stake.

When an Xnode user manually initiates a transaction, the Xnode acts as a full Xmixer and trustlessly forwards coins on behalf of others.

Like any POS coin, whenever you make a payment from a given address, it'll send any change to another address and so their age will reset. If you use coin control to specify that the change address will be the same address that coins were at before, this still resets the coins' age, so staking will begin again.

For good staking with XC, it's best to send a payment of 50 - 500 coins to each address you want to stake from. That'll ensure good staking. It'll also ensure that when you use some coins to make a payment, the age of the other addresses won't be affected.


So basically you were spot on there. Nice one.

[cryptico]

Adrressing Gumpty and TingCoin questions:

from this link:

http://xc-official.com/introducing-the-xmixer-earn-revenue-with-xcurrency%E2%80%99s-trustless-mixing.html

Expanding XC’s capacity

The trustless multipath mixing of Rev 2 was successfully implemented on 7 July, but in order for it to scale to handle mainstream adoption, decentralised exchange, and a host of blockchain 2.0 apps, it will require massive capacity. However, since mixing can only be between nodes that are currently making private payments, this gives rise to two underlying scenarios that could limit this capacity:

1.      There might not be enough nodes making private payments at a given time, causing transactions to wait or be cancelled.

2.      Even though there may be enough nodes making private payments, their combined balances might not be sufficient to support forwarding all the fragments of a very large transaction.

To remove this limitation, henceforth XC apps will have a new feature, the Xmixer, which has the capacity to forward transactions even when their users aren’t making payments. Xmixers will make use of the same protocol as Privacy Mode, except that they will collect portions of transaction fees as remuneration. In order to take advantage of this, a user would simply create a dedicated wallet from which to run an Xmixer. Then, to ensure that Xmixers contain enough coins to reliably sustain sufficient transaction volume, a minimum of 1000 XC must be paid into it.

Look at the bolded part.

For what I understand all wallets are potentially nodes that mix transactions. when one node/wallet is attempting a private transaction it will connect with all the nodes that are online currently making private payments creating a mesh mixer that will mix that transaction.

For this reason in order to scale and manage large volume of transactions there is the need for Nodes/wallets that will need to stay ALWAYS on line to be available as mixers for private transactions. Those nodes are on top of the first layer and will be rewarded.

I think that I got it correctly Synechist correct me if I am wrong.

[synechist]

Adrressing Gumpty and TingCoin questions:

from this link:

http://xc-official.com/introducing-the-xmixer-earn-revenue-with-xcurrency%E2%80%99s-trustless-mixing.html

Expanding XC’s capacity

The trustless multipath mixing of Rev 2 was successfully implemented on 7 July, but in order for it to scale to handle mainstream adoption, decentralised exchange, and a host of blockchain 2.0 apps, it will require massive capacity. However, since mixing can only be between nodes that are currently making private payments, this gives rise to two underlying scenarios that could limit this capacity:

1.      There might not be enough nodes making private payments at a given time, causing transactions to wait or be cancelled.

2.      Even though there may be enough nodes making private payments, their combined balances might not be sufficient to support forwarding all the fragments of a very large transaction.

To remove this limitation, henceforth XC apps will have a new feature, the Xmixer, which has the capacity to forward transactions even when their users aren’t making payments. Xmixers will make use of the same protocol as Privacy Mode, except that they will collect portions of transaction fees as remuneration. In order to take advantage of this, a user would simply create a dedicated wallet from which to run an Xmixer. Then, to ensure that Xmixers contain enough coins to reliably sustain sufficient transaction volume, a minimum of 1000 XC must be paid into it.

Look at the bolded part.

For what I understand all wallet are potentially nodes that mix transactions. when one node/wallet is attempting a private transaction it will connect with all the nodes that are online currently making private payments creating a mesh mixer that will mix that transaction.

For this reason in order to scale and manage large volume of transactions there is the need for Nodes/wallet that will need to stay ALWAYS on line to be available as mixers for private transactions. Those nodes are on top of the first layer and will be rewarded.

I think that I got it correctly Sinechist correctly if I am wrong.

Spot on Cryptico.

Congrats on becoming a full member btw. :-)

[cryptico]

Adrressing Gumpty and TingCoin questions:

from this link:

http://xc-official.com/introducing-the-xmixer-earn-revenue-with-xcurrency%E2%80%99s-trustless-mixing.html

Expanding XC’s capacity

The trustless multipath mixing of Rev 2 was successfully implemented on 7 July, but in order for it to scale to handle mainstream adoption, decentralised exchange, and a host of blockchain 2.0 apps, it will require massive capacity. However, since mixing can only be between nodes that are currently making private payments, this gives rise to two underlying scenarios that could limit this capacity:

1.      There might not be enough nodes making private payments at a given time, causing transactions to wait or be cancelled.

2.      Even though there may be enough nodes making private payments, their combined balances might not be sufficient to support forwarding all the fragments of a very large transaction.

To remove this limitation, henceforth XC apps will have a new feature, the Xmixer, which has the capacity to forward transactions even when their users aren’t making payments. Xmixers will make use of the same protocol as Privacy Mode, except that they will collect portions of transaction fees as remuneration. In order to take advantage of this, a user would simply create a dedicated wallet from which to run an Xmixer. Then, to ensure that Xmixers contain enough coins to reliably sustain sufficient transaction volume, a minimum of 1000 XC must be paid into it.

Look at the bolded part.

For what I understand all wallet are potentially nodes that mix transactions. when one node/wallet is attempting a private transaction it will connect with all the nodes that are online currently making private payments creating a mesh mixer that will mix that transaction.

For this reason in order to scale and manage large volume of transactions there is the need for Nodes/wallet that will need to stay ALWAYS on line to be available as mixers for private transactions. Those nodes are on top of the first layer and will be rewarded.

I think that I got it correctly Sinechist correctly if I am wrong.

Spot on Cryptico.

Congrats on becoming a full member btw. :-)

Indeed! Thank you Sir! I turned a bit red for having confirmation of being spot on... my ego is through the roof now ahaha

[conradjohnson]

Bumping this:  https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=190722.msg8831130#msg8831130

Go there and give it a plus one to pile on to get bitcoinwisdom to add bittrex to their xc stats.

[swannsonite]

I am wondering if this is a way to tell if you have -distmix-autonode working? Minting weight is 1.

[cryptico]

I am wondering if this is a way to tell if you have -distmix-autonode working? Minting weight is 1.

Nope don't think so.. You will need to have the wallet fully unlocked as well.

[swannsonite]

I am wondering if this is a way to tell if you have -distmix-autonode working? Minting weight is 1.

Nope don't think so.. You will need to have the wallet fully unlocked as well.

Yeah it is unlocked and not just for staking I just double checked to be sure. The weight is now 151 after reloading the wallet guess it was actually just 1.

[synechist]

I am wondering if this is a way to tell if you have -distmix-autonode working? Minting weight is 1.

Nope don't think so.. You will need to have the wallet fully unlocked as well.

You'll know it's working when your balance starts going up. :-)

On a more serious note though, we'll build in confirmation of this soon. The UI is next on our timeline...

You may still need to have your wallet fully unlocked. If so, this won't be the case for long. I'm awaiting confirmation on this btw.

[synechist]

Something to retweet/share:

https://twitter.com/XCurrency/status/511864297589575680

https://www.facebook.com/XCurrency?fref=ts

[cryptico]

Synechist what about the press releases that were supposed to be out yesterday with the launches are they going to be today?

Can you share which big media will cover it?

ehehehe