[ANN] [CLOAK] Cloakcoin | No Premine | X13 | Decentralized Market and PoSA

[heartastack]

Can you pull a week without sleep, care for a family, develop unique systems in crypto.... and produce a perfect chart just to silence idiots like you who simply waste the air we breathe? I say the effort was bloody good and can be touched up later

Think about this, do you lose a skill when tired or stressed out. Consider, for example, a welder. His work may be slower, and might not be as precise, but it would not look as if he had never welded in his life.

Even a stressed out, overtired, person experienced in process design would not suddenly forget such basics as diamonds for decisions.

Do you forget how to drive when you are tired?

No but I did fall asleep at the wheel and nearly kill myself

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[Coolstoryteller]

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Would that diagram suffice as evidence? Appreciate your input.

Thanks

No. Here is an analogy.

Here is a description of a warp drive, using the known laws relativity. This does not constitute evidence of faster than light travel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcubierre_drive#Mathematics_of_the_Alcubierre_drive

What would you consider valid evidence then?

Well that was my original question, which I do not have an answer for.

Full open source audit by industry experts would be pretty fool-proof for me, but by that time most of the price rise would have happened in anticipation.

Auditors of that caliber are booked up 3-4 months in advance and also costs upwards of 50k. It's easy for you to come in here and criticize Cloak's efforts. Yet, you don't provide your own answer. Hmm I guess a public beta with a diagram mapping out the processes just isn't enough for you. I haven't seen 1 altcoin invest the money into a high level independent audit - open source or not. We've reached out to top level cryptographers outside of this forum to complete a full audit on Cloak/PoSA. This is a potential billion dollar product, so I have no problems supporting an independent validation. You have all the right to question the validity of the claims; Although, your lack of faith will end up costing you more in the long run.

Also, I fail to see how your warp drive analogy is relevant. PoSA is out in the wild, with a public beta producing evidence on the blockchain. Last time I checked the progress of warp drives it was still in the very early stages. I haven't seen the guys over at Skunkworks invite the public over for viewing.

The main problem with trolls and skeptics is no matter how much information you provide, they will still come back with another argument. By the time they figure it out the ship has already set sail.

[xephyr]

This was just posted on another forum original at http://pastebin.com/TvJkKiCJ

Dude, that's fake.

The only thing they would be able to see is Cloaksend 1.0 on public github.

Rest assured it has nothing to do with PoSA.

Thanks so much for the quick reply and clarification. I thought it was BS but wanted to bring it to your attention. I'm not selling my CLOAK anytime soon:)

[tokyoghetto]

Can you pull a week without sleep, care for a family, develop unique systems in crypto.... and produce a perfect chart just to silence idiots like you who simply waste the air we breathe? I say the effort was bloody good and can be touched up later

Think about this, do you lose a skill when tired or stressed out. Consider, for example, a welder. His work may be slower, and might not be as precise, but it would not look as if he had never welded in his life.

Even a stressed out, overtired, person experienced in process design would not suddenly forget such basics as diamonds for decisions.

Do you forget how to drive when you are tired?

fatigue does have an affect on driving skills. You are slow to react. You forget basic skills like checking blindspots or stopping at stop signs/stop lights.

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration conservatively estimates that 100,000 police-reported crashes are the direct result of driver fatigue each year. This results in an estimated 1,550 deaths, 71,000 injuries, and $12.5 billion in monetary losses. These figures may be the tip of the iceberg, since currently it is difficult to attribute crashes to sleepiness.

http://drowsydriving.org/about/facts-and-stats/

nice try though, you are welcomed to leave this thread at anytime.

[organizer]

Crypto is funny. As the XCoin dev is criticizing another dev's work... he's chatting with Jasinlee... the first dev listed on the XC site...who is busy with his own "scammy" behavior... take a look at his asic thread:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.6930

So you should ask him why he's associating with and therefore endorsing someone doing what Jasin is to his "customers"..


FYI, I have no position in Cloak (or ill will towards any coin with an active dev!)...

[nsimmons]

Trying to answer nsimmons is like this:

Nuclear fusion happens in the sun everyday.  As of this moment in time we can't replicate nuclear fusion.  He wants you to prove that it happens.  You could throw him 1,000 diagrams explaining how it happens and show what you call evidence, but because you can't replicate it, it really doesn't happen.

Pointless convo...  Onto the next.

Nice try, there's these things call neutrons, you know, the by product of hydrogen fusion..

Yes, but are they really, really proof of hydrogen fusion? How do you know? Have you ever been able to replicate that process?

However, with POSA, the proof is the delivery of the coins without the possibility to trace where they came from...

Yes fusion is well documented and repeatable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor

More recently, with a net gain in energy.
http://www.nature.com/news/laser-fusion-experiment-extracts-net-energy-from-fuel-1.14710

And yes I have worked with a farsworth style fusor.

[smokim87]

I give you a hint.... its Joe

No what is shows is that who ever drew it has never taken a single course in algorithm design, or even process management. To the university grads here, did you ever see something like this in CompSci 101?

thats like moaning against somebody about his bad english.... even if you did understand everything. Yep you are right this can be done better.... but point is i do understand what the chart wants to tell so its not a bad chart.

You make a great point, "Yep you are right this can be done better....", but we are lead to believe

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

From people who cant design a proper flow chart?

Sorry I really thought you were serious about discussing cloak. You look at the chart and have no idea whats going on, have you tried analyzing it at least? Ask questions to things you didn't understand? No you didn't, your one of the guys I like to call a smart troll. Trolling without the use of scam, shit...etc

Don't worry that diagram is being redrawn in a coloring book with crayons for you to understand.

If you read my earlier post, I said I did understand the chart. You again with the insults, we were doing so well.

Think about how much sense this makes. We are lead to believe there is a revolutionary solution from people who show they haven't grasped fundamentals.

No insults, I thought you were actually interested but your not. Feels like I am chasing a shadow talking to you. Like I said if you have difficulties trying to understand the chart, ask questions or join the IRC the devs are currently open to a Q&A.

Now what's your excuse? You sound like a smart guy but saying you don't understand anything from the chart and refusing to ask questions proves otherwise.

[nsimmons]

Can you pull a week without sleep, care for a family, develop unique systems in crypto.... and produce a perfect chart just to silence idiots like you who simply waste the air we breathe? I say the effort was bloody good and can be touched up later

Think about this, do you lose a skill when tired or stressed out. Consider, for example, a welder. His work may be slower, and might not be as precise, but it would not look as if he had never welded in his life.

Even a stressed out, overtired, person experienced in process design would not suddenly forget such basics as diamonds for decisions.

Do you forget how to drive when you are tired?

No but I did fall asleep at the wheel and nearly kill myself

You just argued my point, thank you.

"and might not be as precise"

[tokyoghetto]

Crypto is funny. As the XCoin dev is criticizing another dev's work... he's chatting with Jasinlee... the first dev listed on the XC site...who is busy with his own "scammy" behavior... take a look at his asic thread:

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=2702.6930

So you should ask him why he's associating with and therefore endorsing someone doing what Jasin is to his "customers"..


FYI, I have no position in Cloak (or ill will towards any coin with an active dev!)...

This cryptogame is turning into some mafioso shit. Imagine if the Russians, Italians, Mexican Drug Cartels, Yakuza and Triads all at war over the same slice of the pie.

The trolls are the foot soldiers, doing all the dirty work. trolling other threads, doing digital drive-bys with FUD as ammo. They will shit all over one coin while pumping their own.

They don't care who gets hurt. Who loses money, as long as they make it all.

This shit is getting ruthless. Next thing you know, the wallstreet banksters are going to get in on it, then finally the biggest crooks of them all, the Federal Government/Illuminati are going to fuck us all.

[djslick]

6 BTC to reach 275k

CHOO CHOO BITCHES

[tx42]

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

The Byzantine Gernerals Problem relates to establishing a dependable protocol for communicating over an undependable channel.

1. The problem is specific to 2-way communication. There are absolutely no arrows returning to the sender in the flow chart, so it can't address this particular problem.
2. Even if it did solve the Byzantine Generals Problem (which it doesn't), how the heck does the Byzantine Generals Problem apply to anonymity?

[nsimmons]

I give you a hint.... its Joe

No what is shows is that who ever drew it has never taken a single course in algorithm design, or even process management. To the university grads here, did you ever see something like this in CompSci 101?

thats like moaning against somebody about his bad english.... even if you did understand everything. Yep you are right this can be done better.... but point is i do understand what the chart wants to tell so its not a bad chart.

You make a great point, "Yep you are right this can be done better....", but we are lead to believe

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

From people who cant design a proper flow chart?

Sorry I really thought you were serious about discussing cloak. You look at the chart and have no idea whats going on, have you tried analyzing it at least? Ask questions to things you didn't understand? No you didn't, your one of the guys I like to call a smart troll. Trolling without the use of scam, shit...etc

Don't worry that diagram is being redrawn in a coloring book with crayons for you to understand.

If you read my earlier post, I said I did understand the chart. You again with the insults, we were doing so well.

Think about how much sense this makes. We are lead to believe there is a revolutionary solution from people who show they haven't grasped fundamentals.

No insults, I thought you were actually interested but your not. Feels like I am chasing a shadow talking to you. Like I said if you have difficulties trying to understand the chart, ask questions or join the IRC the devs are currently open to a Q&A.

Now what's your excuse? You sound like a smart guy but saying you don't understand anything from the chart and refusing to ask questions proves otherwise.

You misunderstand me. I didn't say I don't understand the chart, it is not complicated. I am discussing the implementation of the concept.

[Xamda]

Trying to answer nsimmons is like this:

Nuclear fusion happens in the sun everyday.  As of this moment in time we can't replicate nuclear fusion.  He wants you to prove that it happens.  You could throw him 1,000 diagrams explaining how it happens and show what you call evidence, but because you can't replicate it, it really doesn't happen.

Pointless convo...  Onto the next.

Nice try, there's these things call neutrons, you know, the by product of hydrogen fusion..

Yes, but are they really, really proof of hydrogen fusion? How do you know? Have you ever been able to replicate that process?

However, with POSA, the proof is the delivery of the coins without the possibility to trace where they came from...

Yes fusion is well documented and repeatable.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fusor

More recently, with a net gain in energy.
http://www.nature.com/news/laser-fusion-experiment-extracts-net-energy-from-fuel-1.14710

And yes I have worked with a farsworth style fusor.

Well, if that is the case, then you should have no problem understanding POSA and just because you have not been able to test it yourself yet it may still work... You will just have to do like (most of) the rest of us - wait for the release of POSA and try it if you do not understand Daggers explanation.

[nsimmons]

Well, if that is the case, then you should have no problem understanding POSA and just because you have not been able to test it yourself yet it may still work...

I agree 100%

[poppys]

This train has no breaks. Pushing 300k

[drizzle2405]

Well, if that is the case, then you should have no problem understanding POSA and just because you have not been able to test it yourself yet it may still work...

I agree 100%

So have you made the same case against Dark?  Xcoin?

In regard to anonymous...

[drkman]

GUYS stop discussing trolls, we have new announcements, discuss that.....

+1mil

Noone finds it rather interesting that a massive organized FUD wave and huge dump of coins just preceeded the announcement by the DEV?  Are people on the inside connected to the organized fudding?  Because it certainly seems that way.  Look how the FUDDING ended just before the flow chart post.

..............or it could be dagger just deleting everything so I can't tell WTF is going on in the thread anymore....?

[nsimmons]

The main problem with trolls and skeptics is no matter how much information you provide, they will still come back with another argument. By the time they figure it out the ship has already set sail.

Generations of skeptics lead to the device you are using to communicate with me, faith did not.

[smokim87]

GUYS stop discussing trolls, we have new announcements, discuss that.....

+1mil

Noone finds it rather interesting that a massive organized FUD wave and huge dump of coins just preceeded the announcement by the DEV?  Are people on the inside connected to the organized fudding?  Because it certainly seems that way.  Look how the FUDDING ended just before the flow chart post.

..............or it could be dagger just deleting everything so I can't tell WTF is going on in the thread anymore....?

You were part of the FUD, should be asking yourself that  

useless posts are being deleted, there are some people posting questions and doubts but aren't getting deleted.

You always have a conspiracy, face it bro your a troll and you know it. You'll always find something to troll.

Edit: Updates are usually posted around this time and in nights in my timezone.

[zing96]

PoSA is entirely trustless and solves the Byzantine Generals problem.

The Byzantine Gernerals Problem relates to establishing a dependable protocol for communicating over an undependable channel.

1. The problem is specific to 2-way communication. There are absolutely no arrows returning to the sender in the flow chart

Read the arrow.  "Tells Joe to create a PoSA address and receive it from him."  So...he sent a message to Joe and Joe sent something back.  That sounds like 2-way communication.

Edit:  This also happens with PoSA node 1.  So your two-way communication appears to happen twice.